Pretty much all racial abilities that actually have die/numbers connected to them are weak, often limited to once per rest, and only really beneficial at very early levels. Even ones that are passive are typically pretty lackluster/situational, save for Dark Vision and the like. I find this to be more true for the core races found in the PHB than others, but still, typically not great.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
Pretty much all racial abilities that actually have die/numbers connected to them are weak, often limited to once per rest, and only really beneficial at very early levels. Even ones that are passive are typically pretty lackluster/situational, save for Dark Vision and the like. I find this to be more true for the core races found in the PHB than others, but still, typically not great.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
Rather than the recharge, I’d rather let a Dragonborn Player up the number of uses of the action per long rest as the level up, or tie it to their CHA modifier.
racial abilities are supposed to be much less powerful than class abilities in general, so I don’t really see the problem here
Pretty much all racial abilities that actually have die/numbers connected to them are weak, often limited to once per rest, and only really beneficial at very early levels. Even ones that are passive are typically pretty lackluster/situational, save for Dark Vision and the like. I find this to be more true for the core races found in the PHB than others, but still, typically not great.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
Rather than the recharge, I’d rather let a Dragonborn Player up the number of uses of the action per long rest as the level up, or tie it to their CHA modifier.
racial abilities are supposed to be much less powerful than class abilities in general, so I don’t really see the problem here
They get it back on a short rest, not just on a long one. Short rests aren't hard to take.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
What short end?
They have a ranged damage dealing racial which is nearly as good as a spell.
They have decent stat bonuses
You can choose which element (or poison) you wish to have resistance to forever, regardless of equipment.
They have a damage dealing special which is, at 6th level, about as good as a first level spell (flaming hands), only it's based on a secondary attribute instead of your primary. It's not totally useless, but it's not terribly good.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
What short end?
They have a ranged damage dealing racial which is nearly as good as a spell.
They have decent stat bonuses
You can choose which element (or poison) you wish to have resistance to forever, regardless of equipment.
They have a damage dealing special which is, at 6th level, about as good as a first level spell (flaming hands), only it's based on a secondary attribute instead of your primary. It's not totally useless, but it's not terribly good.
Why would a breath weapon be based on STR, DEX, or INT?
Acid, Lightning, or Fire in a 5 wide, 30 foot line is not Burning Hands.
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Lines are generally worse than cones or spheres, especially for commonly resistant damage types, and the ability's saving throw DC is based on the Dragonborn's constitution modifier, which they get no bonuses to, and is normally a Dexterity saving throw, one of the easiest types of saving throws for most creatures to succeed at.
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I've considered to make it more effective against swarms. It seems kind of realistic that a swarm of insects is vulnerable to a breath of fire (for instance).
I think I would rather have made it into a bonus action, but kept the restriction on uses than giving it a recharge. But this is mainly because that's the easiest and fastest to track, and it allows the dragonborn ONE very cool round.
The problem with the breath weapon is that it's often worse than simply using your at-will attacks, particularly at higher level. Consider a 6th level Dragonborn paladin (Str 18, Con 14), as that's a pretty traditional way to take advantage of the stat bonuses. We'll give him a +1 longsword and defensive fighting style.
His melee attack is +8/1d8+5 twice. Against a CR 6 critter with AC 17, that will average 11.4 damage. Against two CR 2 critters with AC 14, average is 7.125 each (note that it is usually more effective to focus on one target). Also, he has a lot of options for boosting this, such as smites.
His breath weapon is DC 13. Against a target with a +2 save, that will average 8 damage. Thus, it is worse than his regular melee attack against a single target, and only barely better against two, and he can't boost it. Now, it does have some range (not much, though) and can theoretically hit more than two targets, but in a lot of fights it will be an inferior choice to simply whacking things with a sword. Racial abilities don't need to be amazing, but they shouldn't be trap options.
Changing it to a bonus action would certainly make it worth using and might be overpowered. The simplest option is probably to just change its die type to d8s or even d10s.
That being said, the amount of damage that the breath weapon does is so lackluster that most of the time it won't be worthwhile using, especially at higher levels. The 1st level spell burning hands does about the same thing, dealing 3d6 damage instead of 2d6.
l know right?! thats what i was thinking! if its worse then a level one spell,why should it not act like a cantrip. also,how do you add the link to make it pop up?
A cantrip does 0 damage on a successful saving throw, with the breath weapon they still take 1/2 damage. If you let them use their breath weapon every turn they will end up using more than their cantrips because it is guaranteed damage. In the campaign I DM I houserule that their breath weapon has Recharge 6. That way they can’t use it every turn, but they can still use it 1ce or 2ce per combat encounter.
The problem with the breath weapon is that it's often worse than simply using your at-will attacks, particularly at higher level. Consider a 6th level Dragonborn paladin (Str 18, Con 14), as that's a pretty traditional way to take advantage of the stat bonuses. We'll give him a +1 longsword and defensive fighting style.
His melee attack is +8/1d8+5 twice. Against a CR 6 critter with AC 17, that will average 11.4 damage. Against two CR 2 critters with AC 14, average is 7.125 each (note that it is usually more effective to focus on one target). Also, he has a lot of options for boosting this, such as smites.
You're not making a similar comparison. Your argument would be more aligned with saying Tabaxi and Tortles need better claw attacks.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
One thing that a friend has done for his game that I was though was interesting was make the breath a attack option. Ie if the fighter had extra attack he can use it as one of the weapon attack. This still made it a action for people with out extra attack but let the fight attack with his sword and breath in a round. Unforchanly the fighter died shortly after hitting level 5 so not much play testing was done on it.
One thing that a friend has done for his game that I was though was interesting was make the breath a attack option. Ie if the fighter had extra attack he can use it as one of the weapon attack. This still made it a action for people with out extra attack but let the fight attack with his sword and breath in a round. Unforchanly the fighter died shortly after hitting level 5 so not much play testing was done on it.
I don’t imagine that it would be overpowered after level 5 to do it that way. I know that 5d6 to a cone sounds like a ton, but by 16th level being able to replace 1 attack/Short rest seems okay by me. I would give a magic item capable of an equivalent ability by that point so why not?
One thing that a friend has done for his game that I was though was interesting was make the breath a attack option. Ie if the fighter had extra attack he can use it as one of the weapon attack. This still made it a action for people with out extra attack but let the fight attack with his sword and breath in a round. Unforchanly the fighter died shortly after hitting level 5 so not much play testing was done on it.
I don’t imagine that it would be overpowered after level 5 to do it that way. I know that 5d6 to a cone sounds like a ton, but by 16th level being able to replace 1 attack/Short rest seems okay by me. I would give a magic item capable of an equivalent ability by that point so why not?
Well, it becomes a "you should always use this when available" instead of a situational power.
If at 16th level, your fighter you got a sword that could cast a 3rd level Burning Hands in lue of one attack/short rest, wouldn’t it be roughly the same thing?
Dragonborn do seem to get very little; I mean look at lizardfolk, they get tons of abilities. However I think the issue is with how most people play the game, and the subtle benefits of the breath weapon. For example, lock up a wizard, take away his focus and book, and he's pretty much shut down. Lock up a dragonborn and he's roasting the guard every hour.
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Pretty much all racial abilities that actually have die/numbers connected to them are weak, often limited to once per rest, and only really beneficial at very early levels. Even ones that are passive are typically pretty lackluster/situational, save for Dark Vision and the like. I find this to be more true for the core races found in the PHB than others, but still, typically not great.
Dragonborn do get a very short end of the stick, though.
Rather than the recharge, I’d rather let a Dragonborn Player up the number of uses of the action per long rest as the level up, or tie it to their CHA modifier.
racial abilities are supposed to be much less powerful than class abilities in general, so I don’t really see the problem here
They get it back on a short rest, not just on a long one. Short rests aren't hard to take.
What short end?
They have a ranged damage dealing racial which is nearly as good as a spell.
They have decent stat bonuses
You can choose which element (or poison) you wish to have resistance to forever, regardless of equipment.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
They have a damage dealing special which is, at 6th level, about as good as a first level spell (flaming hands), only it's based on a secondary attribute instead of your primary. It's not totally useless, but it's not terribly good.
Why would a breath weapon be based on STR, DEX, or INT?
Acid, Lightning, or Fire in a 5 wide, 30 foot line is not Burning Hands.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Lines are generally worse than cones or spheres, especially for commonly resistant damage types, and the ability's saving throw DC is based on the Dragonborn's constitution modifier, which they get no bonuses to, and is normally a Dexterity saving throw, one of the easiest types of saving throws for most creatures to succeed at.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I've considered to make it more effective against swarms. It seems kind of realistic that a swarm of insects is vulnerable to a breath of fire (for instance).
I think I would rather have made it into a bonus action, but kept the restriction on uses than giving it a recharge. But this is mainly because that's the easiest and fastest to track, and it allows the dragonborn ONE very cool round.
Ludo ergo sum!
The problem with the breath weapon is that it's often worse than simply using your at-will attacks, particularly at higher level. Consider a 6th level Dragonborn paladin (Str 18, Con 14), as that's a pretty traditional way to take advantage of the stat bonuses. We'll give him a +1 longsword and defensive fighting style.
His melee attack is +8/1d8+5 twice. Against a CR 6 critter with AC 17, that will average 11.4 damage. Against two CR 2 critters with AC 14, average is 7.125 each (note that it is usually more effective to focus on one target). Also, he has a lot of options for boosting this, such as smites.
His breath weapon is DC 13. Against a target with a +2 save, that will average 8 damage. Thus, it is worse than his regular melee attack against a single target, and only barely better against two, and he can't boost it. Now, it does have some range (not much, though) and can theoretically hit more than two targets, but in a lot of fights it will be an inferior choice to simply whacking things with a sword. Racial abilities don't need to be amazing, but they shouldn't be trap options.
Changing it to a bonus action would certainly make it worth using and might be overpowered. The simplest option is probably to just change its die type to d8s or even d10s.
A cantrip does 0 damage on a successful saving throw, with the breath weapon they still take 1/2 damage. If you let them use their breath weapon every turn they will end up using more than their cantrips because it is guaranteed damage. In the campaign I DM I houserule that their breath weapon has Recharge 6. That way they can’t use it every turn, but they can still use it 1ce or 2ce per combat encounter.
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I think changing the die to d8s is a great idea.
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You're not making a similar comparison. Your argument would be more aligned with saying Tabaxi and Tortles need better claw attacks.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
One thing that a friend has done for his game that I was though was interesting was make the breath a attack option. Ie if the fighter had extra attack he can use it as one of the weapon attack. This still made it a action for people with out extra attack but let the fight attack with his sword and breath in a round. Unforchanly the fighter died shortly after hitting level 5 so not much play testing was done on it.
I spell Goodly.
I don’t imagine that it would be overpowered after level 5 to do it that way. I know that 5d6 to a cone sounds like a ton, but by 16th level being able to replace 1 attack/Short rest seems okay by me. I would give a magic item capable of an equivalent ability by that point so why not?
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Well, it becomes a "you should always use this when available" instead of a situational power.
If at 16th level, your fighter you got a sword that could cast a 3rd level Burning Hands in lue of one attack/short rest, wouldn’t it be roughly the same thing?
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Dragonborn do seem to get very little; I mean look at lizardfolk, they get tons of abilities. However I think the issue is with how most people play the game, and the subtle benefits of the breath weapon. For example, lock up a wizard, take away his focus and book, and he's pretty much shut down. Lock up a dragonborn and he's roasting the guard every hour.
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