I am extremely unhappy with the way dual-wielding is handled in 5e. At the request of a player who wanted to run a swashbuckling Rogue type, I cobbled together a set of rules for the Main Gauche.
The Main Gauche is a dagger-like weapon with an oversized guard that not only protects the hand but can also be used to parry incoming attacks. It requires Martial Proficiency although Proficiency with the weapon is automatic for the Swashbuckler Rogue subclass.
Equipping the Main Gauche in the off-hand conveys a +1AC. If the character has the Dual Wield Feat this AC bonus stacks with the +1 AC granted by the Feat.
The Main Gauche is poorly balanced and cannot be thrown.
The Main Gauche does 1D6 damage which can be either Slashing or Piercing as the owner chooses.
What does everyone think? To me, the damage is right and the additional +1AC isn't OP for a class that doesn't wear heavy armor anyway.
I have often thought of ways to make parry a more active thing in my games. One of the concepts I am toying with is having a Parry action that maybe is only available as a feat or through some classes/subclass. The idea would be to add X + AC to one attack at the cost of a reaction. This way, the parry is not always active and it represents well the ability of the character to use their skill/Feat to their benefit.
it's something you see in certain enemies already. For instance;
This way also you make sure their AC is not permenantly increased which has a big impact on combat (which is why you don't see many insane AC increasing abilities)
One the one hand, I think 1d6 is too good in combination with +1AC, 1d4 would be probably sufficient, on the other hand, DEX based Dual-Wield Fighters and Rangers get a tad too much bonus out of it, making it the only reasonable off-hand choice from pure effectiveness.
Why does the Main Gauche do more damage than a normal dagger?
+1 AC is a much bigger advantage in 5e than in previous editions. With bounded accuracy, there aren't enemies with, like, +40 to attack like there were in previous editions. A rogue with a 18AC (10 + 2 armor + 5 dex + 1 dual wield feat) is already pretty hard to hit by most standards. a 19 makes more of a difference than you'd think.
Also, saying "this requires special/martial proficiency" as a barrier to entry is pointless if you're then going to give that proficiency for free to the only member of your group who wants the item.
I have often thought of ways to make parry a more active thing in my games. One of the concepts I am toying with is having a Parry action that maybe is only available as a feat or through some classes/subclass. The idea would be to add X + AC to one attack at the cost of a reaction. This way, the parry is not always active and it represents well the ability of the character to use their skill/Feat to their benefit.
it's something you see in certain enemies already. For instance;
This way also you make sure their AC is not permenantly increased which has a big impact on combat (which is why you don't see many insane AC increasing abilities)
Cavalier fighters get a parry (called warding maneuver) at level 7. As a reaction Roll a d8 and add it to AC for you, a mount or an ally within 5’ (only one, not all of them at once, and only against on attack) Can do it number of times equal to con mod/long rest
And for the OP, I’d go with a d4 damage, maybe raise it to a d6 if you take the dual wielder feat, that keeps it in line with off hand weapons in general.
In 2edition I used just an attack roll to make a parry vs same size weapon (-2 for large size)
So The Main Gauche would give this Feat PARRY (roll attack vs attack of the opponent, if opponent have larger weapons (longsword) -2 to parry -4 to parry for huge weapon.
One the one hand, I think 1d6 is too good in combination with +1AC, 1d4 would be probably sufficient, on the other hand, DEX based Dual-Wield Fighters and Rangers get a tad too much bonus out of it, making it the only reasonable off-hand choice from pure effectiveness.
This. If it's the only choice, it's too powerful. And it's fully the only choice.
One the one hand, I think 1d6 is too good in combination with +1AC, 1d4 would be probably sufficient, on the other hand, DEX based Dual-Wield Fighters and Rangers get a tad too much bonus out of it, making it the only reasonable off-hand choice from pure effectiveness.
This. If it's the only choice, it's too powerful. And it's fully the only choice.
Agreed. Consider that dual wielding shortswords gives d6 damage and no AC bonus and still can't be thrown. Your suggested Main Gauche is strictly better than dual wielding short swords ... you might as well wield two Main Gauche in that case for +2AC ... there is no reason not to use it. Making it available to only swashbuckler rogues also makes no sense since any player who can use two weapon fighting with martial weapons should be able to use it ... fighters etc. Why artificially limit it to rogues?
Even at a d4 damage with +1AC it is still likely the best choice ... +1AC vs +1 average damage ... which would you choose? So, it is out of line with other comparable weapons. Will it break the game? No.
You could gate proper use of the weapon behind the dual wielder feat indicating that the character is better trained in using two weapons (which is essentially what the dual wielder feat does in the first place by adding +1 to AC due to the enhanced ability of the character to parry with their weapons due to training). Creating a +1AC weapon usable for two weapon fighting is essentially giving 1/3 to 1/2 the benefit of the dual wielder feat.
I have also tried to make a Main-Gauche. You can find it in my Homebrew by following the link in my sigline. I also went with Shortsword as the basis, but I made it only grant the +1 to AC if you didn’t use Two-Weapon Fighting the turn before. That way it’s either the Bonus Attack, or the +1 AC, but not both.
I am extremely unhappy with the way dual-wielding is handled in 5e. At the request of a player who wanted to run a swashbuckling Rogue type, I cobbled together a set of rules for the Main Gauche.
The Main Gauche is a dagger-like weapon with an oversized guard that not only protects the hand but can also be used to parry incoming attacks. It requires Martial Proficiency although Proficiency with the weapon is automatic for the Swashbuckler Rogue subclass.
Equipping the Main Gauche in the off-hand conveys a +1AC. If the character has the Dual Wield Feat this AC bonus stacks with the +1 AC granted by the Feat.
The Main Gauche is poorly balanced and cannot be thrown.
The Main Gauche does 1D6 damage which can be either Slashing or Piercing as the owner chooses.
What does everyone think? To me, the damage is right and the additional +1AC isn't OP for a class that doesn't wear heavy armor anyway.
I have often thought of ways to make parry a more active thing in my games. One of the concepts I am toying with is having a Parry action that maybe is only available as a feat or through some classes/subclass. The idea would be to add X + AC to one attack at the cost of a reaction. This way, the parry is not always active and it represents well the ability of the character to use their skill/Feat to their benefit.
it's something you see in certain enemies already. For instance;
Bandit Captain Parry ability
This way also you make sure their AC is not permenantly increased which has a big impact on combat (which is why you don't see many insane AC increasing abilities)
One the one hand, I think 1d6 is too good in combination with +1AC, 1d4 would be probably sufficient, on the other hand, DEX based Dual-Wield Fighters and Rangers get a tad too much bonus out of it, making it the only reasonable off-hand choice from pure effectiveness.
Why does the Main Gauche do more damage than a normal dagger?
+1 AC is a much bigger advantage in 5e than in previous editions. With bounded accuracy, there aren't enemies with, like, +40 to attack like there were in previous editions. A rogue with a 18AC (10 + 2 armor + 5 dex + 1 dual wield feat) is already pretty hard to hit by most standards. a 19 makes more of a difference than you'd think.
Also, saying "this requires special/martial proficiency" as a barrier to entry is pointless if you're then going to give that proficiency for free to the only member of your group who wants the item.
Cavalier fighters get a parry (called warding maneuver) at level 7. As a reaction Roll a d8 and add it to AC for you, a mount or an ally within 5’ (only one, not all of them at once, and only against on attack) Can do it number of times equal to con mod/long rest
And for the OP, I’d go with a d4 damage, maybe raise it to a d6 if you take the dual wielder feat, that keeps it in line with off hand weapons in general.
In 2edition I used just an attack roll to make a parry vs same size weapon (-2 for large size)
So The Main Gauche would give this Feat PARRY (roll attack vs attack of the opponent, if opponent have larger weapons (longsword) -2 to parry -4 to parry for huge weapon.
It was fast and easy. 😐
Peace be with you friend.
This. If it's the only choice, it's too powerful. And it's fully the only choice.
Agreed. Consider that dual wielding shortswords gives d6 damage and no AC bonus and still can't be thrown. Your suggested Main Gauche is strictly better than dual wielding short swords ... you might as well wield two Main Gauche in that case for +2AC ... there is no reason not to use it. Making it available to only swashbuckler rogues also makes no sense since any player who can use two weapon fighting with martial weapons should be able to use it ... fighters etc. Why artificially limit it to rogues?
Even at a d4 damage with +1AC it is still likely the best choice ... +1AC vs +1 average damage ... which would you choose? So, it is out of line with other comparable weapons. Will it break the game? No.
You could gate proper use of the weapon behind the dual wielder feat indicating that the character is better trained in using two weapons (which is essentially what the dual wielder feat does in the first place by adding +1 to AC due to the enhanced ability of the character to parry with their weapons due to training). Creating a +1AC weapon usable for two weapon fighting is essentially giving 1/3 to 1/2 the benefit of the dual wielder feat.
I have also tried to make a Main-Gauche. You can find it in my Homebrew by following the link in my sigline. I also went with Shortsword as the basis, but I made it only grant the +1 to AC if you didn’t use Two-Weapon Fighting the turn before. That way it’s either the Bonus Attack, or the +1 AC, but not both.
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