I’m running Curse of Strahd and it’s been super fun with a group of newbies. Bur after a couple of bad experiences in the castle (one lasting 15 minutes of in game time and the death of one of the party) they are petrified of going to back to Ravenloft. Fearing that they will be overcome. Even though the sun sword, a level up and their ally is trapped there. In last nights session I even gave them all a dream each to tempt them to Ravenloft (promising powers and defeat of Strahd) with the black coach waiting for them in the morning. They were buzzing and I thought I had them. Until I heard the words ‘well, we should really go back to Amber Temple to pick up some more of those gifts so we know we’re fully ready!’

They are obsessed with farming the Amber Temple of its dark gifts.

Some options to run past you:

1. Avalanche. No Temple, soz. Kinda feels the worst buzzkill but nips it in the bud. 
2. Vrock fight and kidnap. Vrock picks up two characters and literally drags them to Ravenloft. Again, feels heavy handed but splits the party and gives them the most compelling reason to go. 
3. The consequences of the temple. Let them go. Get battered a bit. Get some powers but dial up the consequences. Change their align. Turn them into a lich or something. Needs more thought and will be longer but might teach them a lesson. 

What do you think? What would you do?

Why did they go to the castle before they were ready? How did the PC die so fast?

Why do they have to go to the castle to get a level?

How do they KNOW the sword is in the castle? Put it someplace else.

What about The Holy Symbol of Ravenkind?

Do NOT stop them from going to the temple if the party wants to go there. That's a DM dick move. If they want to use it, let them. What would be the point of penalizing them for going there? 

I'd let them do what they want.

Is there some good reason you are trying to stop them, other than that it doesn't follow the pre-determined plot?

If the players are paralyzed and don't want to make any decisions and are just bickering with each other about what to do, I'd try to put an end to that. But if they are taking action, and working together to take that action, I wouldn't try to stop them.

Hey, thanks for taking the time to comment. 

I’m fairly comfortable with my style of DMing (and the feedback I get from the group is excellent) to think that this any of those options wouldn’t be viewed as a DM dick move. Although, I appreciate why you feel like that and I’m cognisant of it all the time. 

One of the key things I’m learning in my short tenure as a DM is when to railroad and when to sandbox. A knack I haven’t fully got the hang of! This situation feels like I need to take control of it - to railroad - without it feeling like a DM dick move.

So far, the group have had a great time building their abilities and strength. But have become obsessed that the key to defeating Strahd is to amass all the dark ones powers in the temple. Now, of course, it’s been fun getting these new abilities. But, with a lifetime experience being spoon fed Hollywood and hacking  games with cheat codes, we all know that unbridled power should come with consequences or it becomes boring pretty quickly!

To answer your questions:

Why did they go to the castle before they were ready?First time because why not. Second time because they thought they were ready. Tbh they could’ve stayed there and been fine at that point. But, I’m not taking that back as that fight was a highlight for everyone  

How did the PC die so fast? Got accosted by animated halberds and his companions were busy. They had raise dead (from the temple) so he was back in no time albeit a bit worse for wear  

Why do they have to go to the castle to get a level? That’s where the sun sword is. Get sunsword = get level  

How do they KNOW the sword is in the castle? Put it someplace else. Good point. Although my clues (tarokka deck and wizard of wines) have hinted heavily at Ravenloft  

What about The Holy Symbol of Ravenkind? Got it. Just need sunsword. 

I’m leaning towards going to the Temple letting get a sniff of new powers but making it much harder to farm it for what it’s worth. 

I’m fully aware that this is all my making. I’ve probably not made more of the power of the sunsword or holy symbol so the group are thinking they need more. Totally missing the point of the ally too. 

Thanks Biowizard. 

See my other reply for why. 

In a sense, yes they are paralysed. I’m fairly convinced they know the next step is Ravenloft and there is a divide in the group, but they’re going along with the temple. Fair point though. 

I know nothing of this particular adventure so correct me if I am wrong but... is the temple from which they are trying to gain power an unlimited resource? It would seem very odd if that were true, but maybe so.

Ordinarily, a structure like a temple has limited power or items for the party to obtain. There are only so many rooms, so many magic items, so much treasure, so many enemies, and so many shrines to pray to. Once they have done all of that, there would seem to be no purpose to going back. So can't you just let them mine it out till it's empty, if they want? Or is that not possible?

Yes, the Amber Temple has a finite amount of these powers. So I could potentially let them mine it for all it’s worth. I need to double check the actual severity of these powers, but main problem with that: having amassed all that power, then getting the other storyline resources to defeat the big bad, the final showdown is likely to be anticlimactic. Strahd is built up to be the ultimate vampire, the worst bad guy ever and the final battle is 15 minutes long. But it’s how I play it I guess. Maybe I’m thinking too much into it!

From what I have heard, CoS is a tough adventure, especially for newer groups. I have not personally either played or ran CoS, but some of the players/DMs in our group who are running CoS currently have remarked on how much “deadlier” it is compared to other Adventures. To that point, I can only refer to my personal “New DM Top Tips” #1:

If everyone is having fun, even if you are not strictly following the rules, you’re doing it right.

To me there is something satisfying about building yourself up enough through tactics, strategy, planning, careful thought, and teamwork, to beat the big bad. Maybe the specific instance of the battle will be "too easy" for them but I don't think that is a problem because they already assailed the thing twice and were rebuffed. It's not like they just waltz in the first time and blow everything away. They're on their 3rd attempt so it will have felt like the enemies were powerful, even if the final battle is not that tough.

Plus, it can also be a lesson. If the players, after it is over, say "that battle was way too easy," you can respond with, "Well, you guys did insist on mining every last ounce of power out of that temple." It will let them know that over-caution might guarantee success but isn't necessarily the best way to have fun.

To some degree players and DMs need to feel these things out and learn by doing.

Great response, thank you. And helped me make the decision: Let them crack on and mine the Temple!

It’s not about the destination, it’s the journey right?

If I remember correctly a lot of those powers from the Amber Temple already have some pretty aggressive consequences.  I think in the module one does turn their player into a Lichee at a certain point.  To the folks that aren't directly familiar with the module its essentially a bunch of tombs of evil people, so the players are almost saying "well why dont we go make 30 deals with demons and devils before we fight the BBEG"

To everyone's point, certainly let them do it. But I could very much imagine you compounding some of the effects if one players is taking a bunch of evil powers into their control in order to fight.  That's not really a DM dick move because that's already more or less how the module lays it out.

I have a similar relationship with my players where realistically I could do whatever I wanted-even if it was a bad DM decision and they would be fine with it. I think I would absolutely let mine mine the temple and try to gather whatever followers they wanted but I would make sure they knew those were evil powers, and they could get the sense if they kept cavorting with them there may be consequences.

How would a divine priest of whoever reconcile with imbuing dark powers into them? How would a warlock with a pact to one creature-how would they're creature feel about it.  Just easy stuff like that to make them feel like there is no 'good' answer, because that is the overall theme of curse of strahd.  There is no good, only less bad options lol

Just curious what level your characters are ...?

1) I would lean towards allowing the characters to choose what they want to do rather than any sort of rail roading. I think the party knows that they need to go back to Ravenloft to confront AND defeat Strahd if they ever want to leave Barovia or even survive.

2) I have an experienced group of players who is currently succeeding at deadly encounters for their level in CoS. However a weaker party or one less tactically aware would likely have more trouble.

3) The dark gifts from the temple have consequences.As DM, you need to make sure the characters are aware of this. Most of the consequences can't be removed by anything less than a Wish or Divine Intervention.

 4) Try not to think in terms of "Teaching them a lesson". They are playing a game and having fun. Make sure that they know the Amber Temple is EVIL. Let them watch as the first character transforms in some hideous way gaining a power temporarily. I know folks who would walk around and accept every dark gift once they realized they didn't want to play the character anymore after realizing the consequences so I would limit the number of dark gifts any one character can accept but that is a DM call.

I'm getting ready to run Curse of Strahd and I am also worried about the difficulty. Others here have helped me make peace with that.

Eventually they'll have to fight Strahd and if they refuse to go back to the castle, you can always send Strahd to them. The beginning of the book it says that the DM's job is to keep Strahd in play for as long as possible. Strahd fights dirty and has the ability to break rules in order to gain advantage. So if the players are so freaked out by him that they're going out of their way to avoid him, that sounds like success on your part. Let them be scared. Feed that fear by having Strahd appear and rough them up for a few rounds then as soon as they start to gain an advantage on him, just have him transform into the mist and vanish before they can hurt him. He could easily use his Legendary Resistance and Legendary Actions to circumvent the holy symbol and the sword for a few rounds.

Maybe have him teleport to the Amber Temple and be waiting for them when they get there!

Quote from Digin8 >>

Yes, the Amber Temple has a finite amount of these powers. So I could potentially let them mine it for all it’s worth. I need to double check the actual severity of these powers, but main problem with that: having amassed all that power, then getting the other storyline resources to defeat the big bad, the final showdown is likely to be anticlimactic. Strahd is built up to be the ultimate vampire, the worst bad guy ever and the final battle is 15 minutes long. But it’s how I play it I guess. Maybe I’m thinking too much into it!

 

Keep in mind that with every dark gift, the players gain a flaw that can be exploited and will make teamwork harder.  When one of the group's leaders becomes a violent bully and another becomes a megalomaniac, they won't work together as well as they should.  Not to mention that every dark gift includes a CHA save or the character turns into an evil NPC, see the sidebar.  You can let them keep playing the character, but after the "anticlimactic" Strahd battle, when they realize they've given so much of themselves over to the Dark Powers that they still can't leave Ravenloft because this is their prison too now, you get a good horror ending.

Whatever the book might say, if the party is too weak, they don't have to have a violent or life threatening encounter at the castle.

It's totally ok to foreshadow that this place is bad news, come back when you're ready. The invitation from Strahd comes early, they don't have to fight him. If they do, it's ok to take them out and have them wake up in the tavern. The invitation is actually a great opportunity for RP, to increase the creep factor and convince the party that they have to get rid of him. Just not right now. He is totally toying with them through the whole adventure.

Haha yes my thoughts exactly. 

OH, NICE! Never thought of it that way. They’ve given up so much to defeat the evil, they’ve become what they sought to destroy :clap: you sir should be a screen writer. 

And now you're thinking like a DM!

To which the correct response is: MUH-hahahahaha.