Has anybody run the Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign with a PC with the doppelganger secret? How did you handle it?
We had our first session this week, and the player with the Doppelganger secret used some "arcane" potion to hide his use of Detect Thoughts for an interrogation session. Even if the NPC succeeded in breaking the spell, the doppelganger could simply recast it.
I also hadn't realised that an alternative use of Detect Thoughts allows the PC to detect enemies. Since Detect Thoughts is an at-will ability for a doppelganger they could, in theory, keep this going endlessly (recasting without any components every minute) to always be alert to imminent threats.
One part of the detect thoughts spell that I use to limit the usage just to keep it from blowing up the entire game is
“When you cast the spell and as your action on each turn until the spell ends, you can focus your mind on any one creature that you can see within 30 feet of you.”
You have to be able to see the creature you’re trying to get into the head of. So this means that detect thoughts isn’t a catch all of awareness but a focused effort on one target.
One part of the detect thoughts spell that I use to limit the usage just to keep it from blowing up the entire game is
“When you cast the spell and as your action on each turn until the spell ends, you can focus your mind on any one creature that you can see within 30 feet of you.”
You have to be able to see the creature you’re trying to get into the head of. So this means that detect thoughts isn’t a catch all of awareness but a focused effort on one target.
Unfortunately, the rest of the spell allows for a more generous usage:
"You can also use this spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see. When you cast the spell or as your action during the duration, you can search for thoughts within 30 feet of you. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead blocks you. You can't detect a creature with an Intelligence of 3 or lower or one that doesn't speak any language. Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above, even if you can't see it, but it must still be within range."
So a character can use an action to "scan", followed by an action in the next round to examine any one of the minds found during the "scan". In addition, each subsequent round they can scan a different creature they have found.
My usual approach to avoiding problems with this spell is that most people are not thinking of anything useful in any particular 6 second interval. The could be focused on work, noting that they are hungry, thinking about some person or place, or just intently focused on something but not actually thinking about what that thing is. For example, when people walk, they aren't thinking about how their arms and legs move. If they are holding some item they may not think about it at all. A creature waiting in an ambush may be thinking about their lunch, possibly daydreaming about lunch, or so focused that they aren't thinking about anything in particular.
I think the biggest issue with the at will detect thoughts is that they would likely have it running almost by default. Dopplegangers are likely paranoid and suspicious by nature knowing how much they are usually hated They would tend to make it a habit of monitoring their surroundings so if I was running a game with a Doppleganger PC, I'd likely work out with the player the basic type of information the character might learn on a regular basis and let them know how it would work so that the player doesn't have to constantly ask "I'll probe everyone within 30', what do I learn?" and slow down the game for everyone else. If the Doppleganger learns something useful, they would have to trust the DM to let them know.
However, one of the issues with the Doppleganger "background" in RotFM is that they ARE hated. This is a secret the character needs to keep from everyone or they may have to retire the character ... this should be used as a factor to encourage the player to play the Doppleganger very conservatively and protectively so that their secret does not become known due to their obvious use of abilities. The other PCs and NPCs likely know the characteristics of Dopplegangers and could easily become suspicious of any unusual ability that could be associated with a Doppleganger. (think of witches as a parallel for example).
I think the biggest issue with the at will detect thoughts is that they would likely have it running almost by default.
That's a fair comment.
To balance it, the doppelganger is not loooking for threats, or navigating, or making a map, or anything else that requires care and attention (check out the travel section of the book - the person mapping does not get to make WIS checks to notice threats). I woulde not give a doppelganger player any WIS checks to notice threats, tracks, hidden things, etc, if they are using their Action every round to detect intelligent creatures.
Also, detect thoughts requires concentration. If the doppelganger character is maintaining it then they are not using hex or hunters mark or bless or detect magic, and so on.
On the other hand, its a great tool for introducting plot complications.
GM: You are idly scanning minds when you detect one thinking, "Hey, that <insert description of one of the PCs> is wanted for a crime, there's a big reward. I'm going to the town guard right now to report them."
I was playing a wizard in Waterdeep before our DM had to cancel and we moved to another table in the shop. The two players that transferred with me, and I were all Level 2 which wasn't bad(we just didn't Level up when the others did the first time so we're all even). My Character had the Telepathic feat from Tasha's, and explained to his companions in Waterdeep that mind tricks is just something he can do. They accepted it pretty quick.
Fast-forward just a bit to session one of Rime, we're all getting secrets, I get Doppelganger. Detect thoughts is already something they know im adept in, which is easily explained by them to our new companions allowing me to use that ability free of suspicions(also helps that I'm a Wizard). And as far as backstory, Now i'm going from Waterdeep to Icewind Dale on the run, but not from the consequences of my actions like I claim, but because I was found out and needed to escape.
TL;DR - I got the Doppelganger secret and it couldn't have fit into my character more perfectly. :)
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Has anybody run the Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign with a PC with the doppelganger secret? How did you handle it?
We had our first session this week, and the player with the Doppelganger secret used some "arcane" potion to hide his use of Detect Thoughts for an interrogation session. Even if the NPC succeeded in breaking the spell, the doppelganger could simply recast it.
I also hadn't realised that an alternative use of Detect Thoughts allows the PC to detect enemies. Since Detect Thoughts is an at-will ability for a doppelganger they could, in theory, keep this going endlessly (recasting without any components every minute) to always be alert to imminent threats.
One part of the detect thoughts spell that I use to limit the usage just to keep it from blowing up the entire game is
“When you cast the spell and as your action on each turn until the spell ends, you can focus your mind on any one creature that you can see within 30 feet of you.”
You have to be able to see the creature you’re trying to get into the head of. So this means that detect thoughts isn’t a catch all of awareness but a focused effort on one target.
Unfortunately, the rest of the spell allows for a more generous usage:
"You can also use this spell to detect the presence of thinking creatures you can't see. When you cast the spell or as your action during the duration, you can search for thoughts within 30 feet of you. The spell can penetrate barriers, but 2 feet of rock, 2 inches of any metal other than lead, or a thin sheet of lead blocks you. You can't detect a creature with an Intelligence of 3 or lower or one that doesn't speak any language. Once you detect the presence of a creature in this way, you can read its thoughts for the rest of the duration as described above, even if you can't see it, but it must still be within range."
So a character can use an action to "scan", followed by an action in the next round to examine any one of the minds found during the "scan". In addition, each subsequent round they can scan a different creature they have found.
My usual approach to avoiding problems with this spell is that most people are not thinking of anything useful in any particular 6 second interval. The could be focused on work, noting that they are hungry, thinking about some person or place, or just intently focused on something but not actually thinking about what that thing is. For example, when people walk, they aren't thinking about how their arms and legs move. If they are holding some item they may not think about it at all. A creature waiting in an ambush may be thinking about their lunch, possibly daydreaming about lunch, or so focused that they aren't thinking about anything in particular.
I think the biggest issue with the at will detect thoughts is that they would likely have it running almost by default. Dopplegangers are likely paranoid and suspicious by nature knowing how much they are usually hated They would tend to make it a habit of monitoring their surroundings so if I was running a game with a Doppleganger PC, I'd likely work out with the player the basic type of information the character might learn on a regular basis and let them know how it would work so that the player doesn't have to constantly ask "I'll probe everyone within 30', what do I learn?" and slow down the game for everyone else. If the Doppleganger learns something useful, they would have to trust the DM to let them know.
However, one of the issues with the Doppleganger "background" in RotFM is that they ARE hated. This is a secret the character needs to keep from everyone or they may have to retire the character ... this should be used as a factor to encourage the player to play the Doppleganger very conservatively and protectively so that their secret does not become known due to their obvious use of abilities. The other PCs and NPCs likely know the characteristics of Dopplegangers and could easily become suspicious of any unusual ability that could be associated with a Doppleganger. (think of witches as a parallel for example).
That's a fair comment.
To balance it, the doppelganger is not loooking for threats, or navigating, or making a map, or anything else that requires care and attention (check out the travel section of the book - the person mapping does not get to make WIS checks to notice threats). I woulde not give a doppelganger player any WIS checks to notice threats, tracks, hidden things, etc, if they are using their Action every round to detect intelligent creatures.
Also, detect thoughts requires concentration. If the doppelganger character is maintaining it then they are not using hex or hunters mark or bless or detect magic, and so on.
On the other hand, its a great tool for introducting plot complications.
GM: You are idly scanning minds when you detect one thinking, "Hey, that <insert description of one of the PCs> is wanted for a crime, there's a big reward. I'm going to the town guard right now to report them."
I was playing a wizard in Waterdeep before our DM had to cancel and we moved to another table in the shop. The two players that transferred with me, and I were all Level 2 which wasn't bad(we just didn't Level up when the others did the first time so we're all even). My Character had the Telepathic feat from Tasha's, and explained to his companions in Waterdeep that mind tricks is just something he can do. They accepted it pretty quick.
Fast-forward just a bit to session one of Rime, we're all getting secrets, I get Doppelganger. Detect thoughts is already something they know im adept in, which is easily explained by them to our new companions allowing me to use that ability free of suspicions(also helps that I'm a Wizard). And as far as backstory, Now i'm going from Waterdeep to Icewind Dale on the run, but not from the consequences of my actions like I claim, but because I was found out and needed to escape.
TL;DR - I got the Doppelganger secret and it couldn't have fit into my character more perfectly. :)