I had the idea of how in some movies/tv shows/comics/games/etc there are many times groups of people conducting rituals to make them more powerful. I was wondering what a rule that allows players to work together to ritual cast a spell might look like
Here is what I thought up so far as a homebrew rule. Let me know what you think
Mass Ritual Casting
When a character who is capable of ritual casting a spell begins their ritual, other characters can choose to assist in conducting the ritual by taking the Help action. In order to help with the ritual, the other characters must be capable of casting spells as rituals as well, but do not need to have the same ritual spell prepared. The characters that want to assist with casting the spell must choose to do so on their next turn immediately following the start of the ritual casting. While assisted in this way for the duration of the casting, that casting of this spell has the following changes applied to it:
The casting time is reduced by one minute for each additional creature assisting to a minimum of the spell’s base casting time. If the reduction in casting time would result in the spell requiring only an action to cast, then the spell is cast at the beginning of the turn of the character who started the ritual.
The spell is treated as being cast one level higher than its base for each assisting creature that has the same spell prepared (to a maximum of 9th level).
If a character assisting in the casting does not take the Help action on one of their turns to continue conducting the ritual, then the spell permanently loses the benefit of the additional person.
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True, but it also makes it easier for heroes to cast their own rituals. You do raise an interesting point, though. As long as they are casting a ritual spell from the PHB, the evil caster could effectively cast any spell over the course of 1 round as long as he has enough minions helping him.
Other story-based rituals could have different casting times still since they aren't explicitly laid out mechanically (maybe the end of the world kill everyone ritual has a casting time (even as a ritual) of 2 hours, so a 1 minute reduction isnt going to make a big difference).
Will need to think about it for sure. Thanks for the feedback.
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The chances of the Party having several characters with Ritual Casting are low, likely only 2-3. (If a party already has a Cleric, a Druid, and a Wizard, then there is not likely to be an Artificer, Bard, or Warlock too (Sorcerers don’t have Ritual Casting.), and if there is a Warlock, they may not go time. But villains are known for starting cults and such.
This will benefit the villains more than the heroes. I mean, if all three of the projected Ritual Casting PCs dedicate themselves to the Ritual, then that’s 3 PCs (likely 50%-60% of the party) tied up for 8 whole minutes. But a cult of villains can knock out a Ritual in a minute flat and it gets upcast for free to boot. At the very least there needs to be a munimum of 5-6 minutes for any ritual, and the upcasting should be an alternative to the time reduction, not in addition to it.
Also, you might want to think about a rewording. Nobody tries to ritually cast a spell in combat, and out of combat “turns” and “rounds” don’t realistically matter. In addition, the way you worded that last paragraph it kinda reads like those helpers only need to spend two turns helping, the initial turn and any one turn in addition before the casting time ends.
Instead of using the help, perhaps simply state that all participants in the Ritual are “[Tooltip Not Found]” that Ritual. That makes it both simpler and clearer since they would all be subject to the rules for Ritual Casting. True, not all of those classes have the exact same rules for Ritual Casting, but they all refer back to the main rules for Rituals.
One thing about enemies getting more of a bonus I would say point out that the bad guys are usually using completely different spells that usually are not in the players hand book and also (often) aren't even able to be known by the players (and I think this is ok). Also not all spells are marked as ritual or you can just say some are not available to be cast as a ritual in your game. For example "Gate" is not a ritual spell so you are by definition making up some new spells when say the bad guy is opening a portal to bring forth a demon or whatever. Since we are making it up we can say it has a cast time of "50 years". So 6 months if you have 100 people. Also, understand, the bad guy doesn't just need to get the spell. They need to get cultists that can cast it, and train them in how to cast it. I do like how this specifies clearly the steps the bad guy needs to go though in terms of recruiting, and training cultist. It makes it easier to figure out how the party catches on to their plan as tell as keeping track of how far they are into the the plan.
The chances of the Party having several characters with Ritual Casting are low, likely only 2-3. (If a party already has a Cleric, a Druid, and a Wizard, then there is not likely to be an Artificer, Bard, or Warlock too (Sorcerers don’t have Ritual Casting.), and if there is a Warlock, they may not go time. But villains are known for starting cults and such.
This will benefit the villains more than the heroes. I mean, if all three of the projected Ritual Casting PCs dedicate themselves to the Ritual, then that’s 3 PCs (likely 50%-60% of the party) tied up for 8 whole minutes. But a cult of villains can knock out a Ritual in a minute flat and it gets upcast for free to boot. At the very least there needs to be a munimum of 5-6 minutes for any ritual, and the upcasting should be an alternative to the time reduction, not in addition to it.
Also, you might want to think about a rewording. Nobody tries to ritually cast a spell in combat, and out of combat “turns” and “rounds” don’t realistically matter. In addition, the way you worded that last paragraph it kinda reads like those helpers only need to spend two turns helping, the initial turn and any one turn in addition before the casting time ends.
Instead of using the help, perhaps simply state that all participants in the Ritual are “Casting” that Ritual. That makes it both simpler and clearer since they would all be subject to the rules for Ritual Casting. True, not all of those classes have the exact same rules for Ritual Casting, but they all refer back to the main rules for Rituals.
The point on the wording is very good, and I will consider rewording it. As for your first point, it is unlikely for large ritual castings to come about naturally, but I do think that having those that can ritual cast assist each other is a fun and flavorful way to allow the party to assist one another. I may have messed up some of the wording in the first paragraph as well, but I also meant to imply that a character that takes the "Ritual Caster" feat could also assist and at least grant the first benefit (if not also the second) if the party decided that 'training' everyone to assist would be a worthwhile investment
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One thing about enemies getting more of a bonus I would say point out that the bad guys are usually using completely different spells that usually are not in the players hand book and also (often) aren't even able to be known by the players (and I think this is ok). Also not all spells are marked as ritual or you can just say some are not available to be cast as a ritual in your game. For example "Gate" is not a ritual spell so you are by definition making up some new spells when say the bad guy is opening a portal to bring forth a demon or whatever. Since we are making it up we can say it has a cast time of "50 years". So 6 months if you have 100 people. Also, understand, the bad guy doesn't just need to get the spell. They need to get cultists that can cast it, and train them in how to cast it. I do like how this specifies clearly the steps the bad guy needs to go though in terms of recruiting, and training cultist. It makes it easier to figure out how the party catches on to their plan as tell as keeping track of how far they are into the the plan.
This is what I had been thinking as well. While it does give enemies a benefit, most of the ritual spells in the PHB aren't going to be a huge benefit to them if they are able to more easily shorten its casting time or upcast its level. Honestly, Im not sure how much the second part will benefit the party either, since I don't think most ritual spells are made to scale, but I think it at least makes sense that more casters would empower the spell, even if there is ultimatley no real benefit to it. That being said, I am open to suggestions for other possible benefits.
As for non-PHB (or XGtE/TCoE) spells, as you said, to ensure it doesn't give the enemies too much power you can set the spell to have a certain casting time where it would be to the party's interest to kill off support casters to prevent it from occurring quickly. It would also open the door for homebrew spells that realistically would only be able to be cast effectivley if the enemies/party amass alot of helpers in game, which could be interesting.
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So with the spells lists as written, the only ritual tagged spells that take notable time to cast beyond the ten minute ritual add on, in my view, are Find Familiar with an hour and Forbiddance with ten minutes. I can only really see Forebiddance having higher utility value if cast more expediently, but I think at the same time the logistics of assembling a group might to peform it quickly may make the whole thing moot. Also got a feeling on a sort of "lore" level the ritual book is specified for one caster, but that can probably be hand waved.
It would be cool if group casting could enable something like the Hag's coven where access to higher spells was possible.
I think collaborative magic (in both spell casting and probably magic item creation) is something neglected in 5e, I'm pretty sure there were involved rules in the creation of magic items as a group effort in past editions, not sure about other applications of group magic.
After considering the points made so far, and reviewing some of the ritual spells, I have made a few changes to my initial rules
Mass Ritual Casting
When a character who is capable of ritual casting a spell begins their ritual, other characters can choose to assist in conducting the ritual. In order to help with the ritual, the other characters must be capable of casting spells as rituals as well, but do not need to have the same ritual spell prepared. The characters that want to assist with casting the spell must choose to do immediately following the start of the ritual casting, with the character who started the ritual being treated as the primary caster. While assisted in this way for the duration of the ritual, that casting of the spell has the following changes applied to it:
The casting time is reduced by one minute for each additional creature assisting to a minimum of the spell’s base casting time. If the reduction in casting time would result in the spell requiring only an action to cast, then the spell is cast immediately without consuming a spell slot.
For each additional creature assisting who also has the same spell prepared, the primary caster gains a +2 bonus to Constitution saving throws made to maintain concentration on the spell.
If a character assisting in the casting is interrupted or unable to continue the ritual, then the spell permanently loses the benefit of the additional person (i.e. another minute is added to the casting time and the primary caster loses that bonus to concentration checks).
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Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
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I had the idea of how in some movies/tv shows/comics/games/etc there are many times groups of people conducting rituals to make them more powerful. I was wondering what a rule that allows players to work together to ritual cast a spell might look like
Here is what I thought up so far as a homebrew rule. Let me know what you think
Mass Ritual Casting
When a character who is capable of ritual casting a spell begins their ritual, other characters can choose to assist in conducting the ritual by taking the Help action. In order to help with the ritual, the other characters must be capable of casting spells as rituals as well, but do not need to have the same ritual spell prepared. The characters that want to assist with casting the spell must choose to do so on their next turn immediately following the start of the ritual casting. While assisted in this way for the duration of the casting, that casting of this spell has the following changes applied to it:
If a character assisting in the casting does not take the Help action on one of their turns to continue conducting the ritual, then the spell permanently loses the benefit of the additional person.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
That sounds good, except that the casting time reduction makes it harder for the heroes to interrupt the Evil Ritual.
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True, but it also makes it easier for heroes to cast their own rituals. You do raise an interesting point, though. As long as they are casting a ritual spell from the PHB, the evil caster could effectively cast any spell over the course of 1 round as long as he has enough minions helping him.
Other story-based rituals could have different casting times still since they aren't explicitly laid out mechanically (maybe the end of the world kill everyone ritual has a casting time (even as a ritual) of 2 hours, so a 1 minute reduction isnt going to make a big difference).
Will need to think about it for sure. Thanks for the feedback.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
The chances of the Party having several characters with Ritual Casting are low, likely only 2-3. (If a party already has a Cleric, a Druid, and a Wizard, then there is not likely to be an Artificer, Bard, or Warlock too (Sorcerers don’t have Ritual Casting.), and if there is a Warlock, they may not go time. But villains are known for starting cults and such.
This will benefit the villains more than the heroes. I mean, if all three of the projected Ritual Casting PCs dedicate themselves to the Ritual, then that’s 3 PCs (likely 50%-60% of the party) tied up for 8 whole minutes. But a cult of villains can knock out a Ritual in a minute flat and it gets upcast for free to boot. At the very least there needs to be a munimum of 5-6 minutes for any ritual, and the upcasting should be an alternative to the time reduction, not in addition to it.
Also, you might want to think about a rewording. Nobody tries to ritually cast a spell in combat, and out of combat “turns” and “rounds” don’t realistically matter. In addition, the way you worded that last paragraph it kinda reads like those helpers only need to spend two turns helping, the initial turn and any one turn in addition before the casting time ends.
Instead of using the help, perhaps simply state that all participants in the Ritual are “[Tooltip Not Found]” that Ritual. That makes it both simpler and clearer since they would all be subject to the rules for Ritual Casting. True, not all of those classes have the exact same rules for Ritual Casting, but they all refer back to the main rules for Rituals.
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One thing about enemies getting more of a bonus I would say point out that the bad guys are usually using completely different spells that usually are not in the players hand book and also (often) aren't even able to be known by the players (and I think this is ok). Also not all spells are marked as ritual or you can just say some are not available to be cast as a ritual in your game. For example "Gate" is not a ritual spell so you are by definition making up some new spells when say the bad guy is opening a portal to bring forth a demon or whatever. Since we are making it up we can say it has a cast time of "50 years". So 6 months if you have 100 people. Also, understand, the bad guy doesn't just need to get the spell. They need to get cultists that can cast it, and train them in how to cast it. I do like how this specifies clearly the steps the bad guy needs to go though in terms of recruiting, and training cultist. It makes it easier to figure out how the party catches on to their plan as tell as keeping track of how far they are into the the plan.
The point on the wording is very good, and I will consider rewording it. As for your first point, it is unlikely for large ritual castings to come about naturally, but I do think that having those that can ritual cast assist each other is a fun and flavorful way to allow the party to assist one another. I may have messed up some of the wording in the first paragraph as well, but I also meant to imply that a character that takes the "Ritual Caster" feat could also assist and at least grant the first benefit (if not also the second) if the party decided that 'training' everyone to assist would be a worthwhile investment
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
This is what I had been thinking as well. While it does give enemies a benefit, most of the ritual spells in the PHB aren't going to be a huge benefit to them if they are able to more easily shorten its casting time or upcast its level. Honestly, Im not sure how much the second part will benefit the party either, since I don't think most ritual spells are made to scale, but I think it at least makes sense that more casters would empower the spell, even if there is ultimatley no real benefit to it. That being said, I am open to suggestions for other possible benefits.
As for non-PHB (or XGtE/TCoE) spells, as you said, to ensure it doesn't give the enemies too much power you can set the spell to have a certain casting time where it would be to the party's interest to kill off support casters to prevent it from occurring quickly. It would also open the door for homebrew spells that realistically would only be able to be cast effectivley if the enemies/party amass alot of helpers in game, which could be interesting.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
So with the spells lists as written, the only ritual tagged spells that take notable time to cast beyond the ten minute ritual add on, in my view, are Find Familiar with an hour and Forbiddance with ten minutes. I can only really see Forebiddance having higher utility value if cast more expediently, but I think at the same time the logistics of assembling a group might to peform it quickly may make the whole thing moot. Also got a feeling on a sort of "lore" level the ritual book is specified for one caster, but that can probably be hand waved.
It would be cool if group casting could enable something like the Hag's coven where access to higher spells was possible.
I think collaborative magic (in both spell casting and probably magic item creation) is something neglected in 5e, I'm pretty sure there were involved rules in the creation of magic items as a group effort in past editions, not sure about other applications of group magic.
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After considering the points made so far, and reviewing some of the ritual spells, I have made a few changes to my initial rules
Mass Ritual Casting
When a character who is capable of ritual casting a spell begins their ritual, other characters can choose to assist in conducting the ritual. In order to help with the ritual, the other characters must be capable of casting spells as rituals as well, but do not need to have the same ritual spell prepared. The characters that want to assist with casting the spell must choose to do immediately following the start of the ritual casting, with the character who started the ritual being treated as the primary caster. While assisted in this way for the duration of the ritual, that casting of the spell has the following changes applied to it:
If a character assisting in the casting is interrupted or unable to continue the ritual, then the spell permanently loses the benefit of the additional person (i.e. another minute is added to the casting time and the primary caster loses that bonus to concentration checks).
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!