One of the least-liked Fighter subclasses is the Arcane Archer, due mostly to how few options it has and how little it can make use of these options per short rest. After looking over some of the spells in the PHB, it seems like there are quite a few that would work well for a magical archer. Taking some inspiration from both the Battle Master and the Way of the Four Elements monk, I wrote up replacement features for the Arcane Shot and Arcane Shot Options for the Arcane Archer.
I am putting these ideas in spoiler tags below and would appreciate feedback. The TL;DR of it is that (like a Battle Master) the Arcane Archer gains access to "Weave Dice" which are used to fuel their magical options. The magical options are based on casting spells from the PHB (along with one or two unique options) where rolling the Weave Dice somehow modifies the casting of the spell (giving a bonus to damage rolls, attack rolls, or concentration along with a few other unique modifiers).
Woven Arrows and Woven Arrow Options
3rd-level Arcane Archer feature, which replaces the Arcane Shot and Arcane Shot Options features
At 3rd level, you learn to unleash special magical effects with some of your shots. When you gain this feature, you learn three Woven Arrow Options of your choice if you meet the prerequisite. Only one option can be used per turn. These options are fueled by special dice called Weave Dice. You have three of these dice, which are d8s, which are expended when you use an option. You regain all expended dice as part of a short or long rest.
At 7th, 10th, and 15th level you gain one additional weave dice and learn two additional Woven Arrow options. Each time you learn a new Woven Arrow Option, you can also replace one option you know with another from the list, provided you meet the prerequisite.
(forgive some of the redundant naming convention)
Woven Arrow Options
The following options are available. Some options allow you to cast spells. When cast this way, the casting does not require material components and your spellcasting modifier is Intelligence. All spells cast as part of an option are considered to be cast at their base level unless otherwise stated. Spells cast this way do not require somatic or material components. Some require you to expend more than one weave die to use.
Arcane Bow
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die, to a maximum of three, to cast Catapult* using an arrow as the object moved by the spell. Roll the expended weave dice and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once. When cast this way, the spell deals magical piercing damage instead of bludgeoning.
Banishing Arrow (18th level required)
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend two or more weave dice to cast Banishing Smite but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Barrage of Arrows (7th level required)
As an action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die as an action to cast Conjure Barrage. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Branding Arrow
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Branding Smite but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Burning Arrows (10th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Flame Arrows*. Each time you hit a creature with an arrow affected by the spell, you can roll one of your expended weave dice for determining the amount of fire damage a target takes instead of 1d6. Each weave dice can only be used this way once.
Chaos Arrow
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Chaos Bolt* with the chaotic energy taking the shape of an arrow. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Dispelling Arrow (10th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or two weave dice to cast Dispel Magic. If an ability check is needed to dispel the magical effect, roll the weave dice and add the value(s) rolled to the total.
Alternatively, when you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one weave die to use this option. If the target is concentrating on a spell, it must roll the weave die and subtract the value rolled from its Constitution saving throw against the damage.
Distracting Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Pyrotechnics*. When cast this way, you can target an arrow you fired from your bow no longer than 1 minute prior choosing to either produce fireworks or smoke as normal. If you choose the fireworks option, roll the weave die. All creatures which are required to make a Constitution saving throw against the effect must subtract the value rolled from the total.
Elemental Arrow
When you choose this option, select one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder. When you hit a creature with a ranged attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one or two weave die. The attack deals extra damage of the chosen type to the weapon’s damage equal to the value(s) rolled on the weave dice. At 10th level, you can expend up to three weave dice each time you use this feature, adding both dice to the total damage of the attack.
This option can be chosen multiple times, each time selecting a different elemental damage type. Only one type of element can be applied to an arrow at a given time
Enchanting Arrow
You summon forth a spectral arrow and fire it at a creature to try and charm it. As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Charm Person.The target of the spell must roll the weave die and subtract the value rolled from the first saving throw they make to resist the spell’s effect.
Ensnaring Arrows
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Ensnaring Strike but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Guardian Arrows (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Cordon of Arrows, using your ammunition as the material component of the spell. Roll the expended weave die. The maximum number of pieces of ammunition that can be affected by this casting of the spell is increased by half the value rolled on the weave die (rounded down, minimum of 1 extra piece).
Melting Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Melf’s Acid Arrow. Roll the weave die and add the value rolled on the die to the spell attack roll.
Messaging Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave dice to cast Skywrite*. When you cast the spell this way, roll the weave dice. You can increase the maximum number of words you can form by the total value of the expended weave dice.
Piercing Arrow
When you hit with a ranged attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one or more weave dice. The target takes additional piercing damage equal to the total value rolled on the expended dice. A creature standing behind the original target within 5 feet takes piercing damage equal to half the total value rolled on the expended dice, as the arrow pierces the original target and hits that creature.
Seeking Arrow
When you make an attack roll with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one of your weave dice and roll it, adding the value to the attack roll. At 10th level, you can expend up to two of your weave dice when using this option, adding both to the attack roll. If the same value is rolled on both dice, the attack is treated as a critical hit regardless of the value rolled on the d20.
Spell Arrow (10th level required)
When you choose this option, you learn one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. On your turn, when you cast a cantrip which requires you to make a spell attack roll, you can expend one or more weave die to instead make a ranged weapon attack using a longbow or shortbow you are holding, focusing the arcane energy into one of your arrows. The spell’s normal range is replaced with that of your weapon. On a successful hit, the spell’s effect applies as normal in addition to the weapon damage. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
This option can be chosen more than once, each time learning a different cantrip. Additionally, each time you select this option you can replace one cantrip you know with another from the Wizard’s spell list.
Tethering Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave dice to cast Earthbind*. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again
Thorned Arrow
As a bonus action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Hail of Thorns. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Volley of Arrows (18th level required)
As an action on your turn, you can expend two or more weave die to cast Conjure Volley. Roll the expended weave dice and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Compared to the Battle Master, the idea is that its dice never go above a d8 and it gets less of them, but it has access to more powerful abilities to use them with.
What most people don’t realize is that the Arcane Shot feature was designed as limited as it is because the real workhorse of the subclass is Curving Shot. In the hands of a fairly tactical player in a group inclined to “build for the team” (instead of everyone pursuing their own individual character concepts as if in a vacuum), Curving Shot is up there with Divine Smite, Sneak Attack, Wild Shape, and Eldritch Blast builds in as fat as how much work it can do.
What most people don’t realize is that the Arcane Shot feature was designed as limited as it is because the real workhorse of the subclass is Curving Shot. In the hands of a fairly tactical player in a group inclined to “build for the team” (instead of everyone pursuing their own individual character concepts as if in a vacuum), Curving Shot is up there with Divine Smite, Sneak Attack, Wild Shape, and Eldritch Blast builds in as fat as how much work it can do.
I don't think anyone would disagree that Curving Shot is fantastic. At the end of the day, though, if you are playing an Arcane Archer you want to feel like you are weaving magical effects into your arrows. The Arcane Shot options are interesting, but there are so very few of them and you only get to use it twice in between short rests. The fact that the Battle Master can apply a bunch of their maneuvers to ranged attacks as well just kinda digs into that wound a little deeper.
So yes, I agree Arcane Archer still has appeal, but the foundational part of the subclass is lackluster. Being a magical archer is boring if the only thing I am doing with my magic is Prestidigitation and curving my arrows around for 90% of the adventuring day.
Edit: I would also add that the Curving Shot feature isnt quite as good as the Gloomstalker's Stalker's Flurry feature (which also appeared in Xanathar's). It effectively does the same thing as curving shot (lets you make another attack after missing), but does not require you to use your bonus action, isnt limited to targeting a different creature within 60 feet, and isnt limited to ranged attacks. The only things that makes Curving Shot better is that you get it four levels earlier and it doesn't cost you another piece of ammunition.
Yeah, but the Arcane Shot options are waaayy more powerful than the Maneuvers.
And I gotta tell ya, I’ve looked at about half of your Options and I honestly would rather play the original Arcane Archer, and here’s why:
Any of the options that start with the phrase “As an action…” I stop reading right there. As a Fighter I don’t want any subclass features that require my Action unless it will be at least as good all by itself as 3 ranges weapon attacks with Sharpshooter, and a +2 Longbow.
Any of the ones that start with the phrase “As a Bonus Action…” followed by a spell that triggers on my next hit is a maybe at best. I don’t want to dedicate my bonus action in advance like that because the bonus action would likely be better spent to activate Curving Shot to make sure that 1d8 +12+Dex mod will have another chance to hit something.
I spent a lot of my career in sales. I learned that the single most direct route to a fatal case of acute, rapid onset indecisiveness is a simple combination of having too many options available and any hint of an impression at all that there is even the shadow of a glimmer of pressure to make a decision. (Cntd in Spoiled.
About 10-15(ish)% of folks can easily juggle 10-12 options regularly without problem, and if they have fewer than 6 they feel constricted. (I’m guessing you would likely be in this grout.) Another 10-15(ish)% of folks are comfortable juggling as many as 3 options on the fly, maybe 4 on limited occasions, but generally 4 or more requires at least a long rest “to think it over,” and more than 6 is basically so overwhelming that they’ll say they need to think it over but really they just need to get the hell out of there because they are likely on the cusp of an anxiety attack. Somewhere between 60-80% of folks are comfortable in 4-6 range as their “on the fly” number, fewer than 4 is “too constricting,” but more than 6 is “need to think it over” territory. The remaining people are on the extreme ends of the spectrum, some can’t make a decision in less than a week’s time if they have more than 2 options total in front of them, and some can never have enough. But, like I said, those are the outliers. You’re offering… 19 different options all day, up to 9 on the sheet at a time by 15th level. Okay, so you’re matching the Battle Master. Wanna know why the Arcane Archer got published with only 8 total options and a max of 6 on the sheet at 18th level? Because WotC’s market research showed them the same thing I figured out: more than 2-3 on the sheet max to start is too many for a lot of folks, and fewer than 8 total available options is too restrictive for a lot of folks. And that the Goldilocks zone is around 8-10 total options, and around 5 or 6 at most available under pressure (like when it’s your turn in combat. So, basically Metamagic is the baby bear, too restrictive for “the majority” of players, and Combat Superiority & Maneuvers is the Papá Bear position, tipping the scales too far too fast for a lot of players, so they designed the Archer to be like the Mama Bear and make the mostest people happy as possible.
I witness the proof every Wednesday evening during session. Some friends recently jumped into an ongoing campaign at 11th level. One of them picked Battle Master “because it seems so cool!” We’ve been meeting almost weekly since September. In all this time she has used one single superiority due to fuel one single Maneuver, once… in 10 months time. Why here are so many Maneuvers to consider that she got lost and just started picking stuff that sounded cool, even if she didn’t actually understand what they do or how they work.-Having jumped right in at 11th level she immediately started with 7 maneuvers on her sheet. Whenever she hits or something I’ll even prompt her by asking if she would like to use a Maneuver. She always pauses for less than a second and then casually declines.
Having 7 maneuvers to consider is way too much for her without holding up the game be taking as long every turn as the other three PCs combined, she knows it would take about at least 10 minutes or so for her every turn just to give herself the time to comfortably consider them all and decide if she wants to use a a maneuver and which one. But she doesn’t want to hold everything up while we would all be sitting there quietly for 10 minutes waiting for her to consider and decide. That’s a long silence which leads to pressure, which amplifies stress which just makes it even more challenging to make a decision.
She’s on the exact opposite end of the spectrum from you. If Maneuvers were as limited as Metamagic she would be much more inclined to actually use it because there is so much less to consider stuffhappier.
If I were designing a “Sposta’s (FIFY) Arcane Archer,” I would be “shooting for” (😂 😂) the following targets:
12ish (10-14) total Arcane Shot Options.
Class Levels where Options Known: 3,3,3,7,10,15,18
One Option would get applied to the attack itself and require it be declared before the attack is rolled. (This would carry the most likelihood of being “wasted” and so would have to be a bit overtuned as a bonus commensurate to the risk. Potential for failure. It’s a Risk:Reward/Juice:Squeeze Option that simultaneously serves three functions: 1) it’s the “Gamblers’ Option for those folks who love the risk as much as the success, it would also serve as the glass to break whenever everything goes completely pearshaped.
One of them would interact with the characters bonus Action, but if possible I would try to make it an “after you have completed the Attack action on your turn….
One of them would specifically interact with the character’s Reaction in some way, perhaps a “Point Blank Ranged Attacl Attack OA” or a “Counterattack,” but not just attacking back, bur a ranged weapon attack that actually targets an attack that has been declairs counter an [Tooltip Not Found].
The rest would all get triggered “on a hit” and include the original 8 Arcane Shot options.
After that, I would be considering:
An additional Cantrip from the Druid list if they chose Druidcraft or from the Wiz list if they chose Prestidigitation. (Likely from an abridged list to exclude damage Cantrips, but an additional “utility/control” cantrip would be flavorful and push the needle more into the “arcane.”
A single spell with the Ritual tag from the list associated with their cantrip choice. The class level and spell level would have to be paired, so if this would come in at 7th level it would be a 1st level spell, 10th would be a 2nd level spell.
Potentially having some of the the Shot Options class level dependent (kinda like you did.). It would require at least a minimum of 2 unlocked at 18th and 15th, and maybe 3 more each as However the intention would be for the options and how the character interacts with them could work like how Druids prepare spells.
I appreciate the feedback. There are a few issues I take
1) One thing I tried to address in my "rework" was how limited the use of Arcane Options are. Even if they are powerful, I still feel that you do not feel like an Arcane Archer by getting to use magic arrows twice per short rest. I would much rather the number of uses of Arcane Options went up with level rather than getting a small power boost at 18th level alone.
2) Most of the "as an action" options that I wrote are tied to casting spells of 1st-5th level that require an action cast. Eldritch Knights will use their full action to cast a spell rather than making their attacks (they dont get the option to mix full spells with an attack until much later), so why would it be an issue for the Arcane Archer to do the same? For any spells that are cast, I tried to find a way for the weave die to modify it in a meaningful way to make it a little stronger and more appealing to use. Admittedly, they arent as strong for some options as others, but that is part of why I am posting here. To get feedback on how I could further improve it. Saying you aren't reading all the ideas I put forth and just saying to scrap the whole thing isn't helpful feedback for me.
3) I appreciate your expertise in sales, but I have to disagree with the notion that they reduced the number of options for Arcane Archer because WotC thought people were overwhelmed by the number of options for Battlemaster. Not only is the Battlemaster one of the most popular fighter subclasses, but WotC elected to add MORE maneuver options in Tasha's. For that reason I find it unlikely that WotC feels the same way you do about the number of options being an issue.
I think giving them the option to cast one or more ritual spells could do alot to make them feel more "arcane", but at the end of the day my main issue still stands for me. If I want to play an Arcane Archer, I want to be mixing magic into several "arrows" across combat not just one or two, even if those arrows are just reflavored spells.
…I still feel that you do not feel like an Arcane Archer by getting to use magic arrows twice per short rest….
Most of the "as an action" options that I wrote are tied to casting spells of 1st-5th level that require an action cast. Eldritch Knights will use their full action to cast a spell rather than making their attacks (they dont get the option to mix full spells with an attack until much later), so why would it be an issue for the Arcane Archer to do the same…?
…I have to disagree with the notion that they reduced the number of options for Arcane Archer because WotC thought people were overwhelmed by the number of options for Battlemaster. Not only is the Battlemaster one of the most popular fighter subclasses, but WotC elected to add MORE maneuver options in Tasha's….
That could still be added in or addressed in some other way. I didn’t include it because it wasn’t something I thought waranted feedback. You could give the feature a built in 1 use per short rest that increases to 2 @10th & 3 @18th, and an additional number of additional uses per long rest equal to the character’s Wis modifier (@min:1). (I feel Wis is a better fit than Int because fighters tend to favor Wis in my experience,. But that’s me you could use either, or give that choice to the player and tie it to the choice of cantrip.) That way it still guarantees a minimum # of uses per short, has it scale by level like you want, and gives additional uses without blowing up the scale. Like a double win with cheese, large win with dipping sauce, and and a liter of winning. All for the win. (Better than Subway all day. 😉)
Yes, absolutely, which are the exact things people complain about Eldritch Knights and why they are the 2nd or 3rd least liked fighter subclass with Champion. (#1 being the all to easily forgettable Purple Dragon Knight.) That’s why I recommended against the same system. The main subclass feature, Spellcasting, directly conflict with the main base class features, Extra Attacks. It not a problem until 5th, and then it isn’t that bad until 10th, but by 11th it stops being fun anymore because you can only ever do half of what your sposta be good at at a time and it’s frustrating. (Trust me. 🙄)
Lol, no you misunderstand. The Battle Master is designed to be the choice with all the options galore as it is intended to appeal to folks who like lots of options galore. What do option junkies always want more of? Options. That’s why battle masters got more in Tasha’s. The Arcane Archer was designed the way it was intended for folks who still want the feels but not the confusion. So what would people who don’t want too many options not want in Tasha’s? Exactly. They don’t designed every subclass to appeal equally to all players. They figure that the folks who love lots & lots of options and want to fire tons of special shots can already do that by playing a Battle Master and giving it a Longbow instead of a Longsword. (Frankly, a Wood Half-Elf Battle Master with a Archery style, Sharpshooter, and Elvish Accuracy is… *shudders* it’s like a howitzer on legs. Tip to DMs, put neither Bracers of Archery nor a quiver enchanted with swift quiver and more than a single charge on it in that campaign. Or if you do… double monsters’ HP.) For the players who love tons of stuff to do, like you and me, of corse we feel underwhelmed by the ‘Archer, we are in that group aaallll the way at the other end of that spectrum who looked at the new options in Tasha’s and said “that’s it?” This subclass was designed with maximum appeal to people who wanted a little more to do than a Champion provides ☝️but not too much. (I think if the champion had roughly this level of player agency it would probably be one of the most popular subclasses in the entire game, but they designed that for 0 level maintenance people, it’s the “set-n’-forget” option. 🤷♂️ It had to be somebody, who else?) To give you food metaphors, (because they always work) battle master is a big, thick double slice of death by chocolate with extra gooey fudge frosting, and this is for the ones who want “just a 🤏small slice of the yellow cake please, um… I’ll take chocolate frosting thank you, but not a lot.” And you’re one of those people who thinks cake is a food group. This is for the people who order one scoop in a paper cup, no toppings. The battle master is a knickerbocker glory, and you think everyday should be Ice-cream Sunday and twice on days ending in “y.” Arcane Archer is a slice of plain, a slice of white, and a bottle of water; the battle master is a slice of supreme with extra cheese and extra pepperoni, a slice of the buffalo chicken, and a fountain soda. And the reason pizza is the perfect food is because you can put anything on it so you can eat it every day and never eat the same thing twice if you don’t want. The arcane archer is Italian cuisine, a few good, fresh, simple ingredients, prepared well to develop strong, bold flavors. The battle master is French Fine Dining, with a melange of ingredient painstakingly crafted over many hours with delicate techniques for a symphony of flavors. You prefer pâté to pasta.
It’s okay. We just need tums. 🥴
Trust me, I agree that the disappointing part about Arcane Archers is that they don’t get to do enough of what they’re supposed to do. That’s why I’m one of those people who just takes the battle master instead and that solves the problem for me. See, I’m not married to them being “magical” shots, as long as I’m happy with the mechanic. So “battle master” Vs “arcane archer,” “maneuvers” Vs “arcane shots,” meh… all the same to me. I take it you feel otherwise, and that’s totally understandable. Heck the whole reason I popped my head in is because I wanted to know if you were the one prophesied to lead Arcane Arches the world over into the nirvana land.
If you’re happy with the design then go to town. I’m just tryin’a give you a heads up because I see this using similar design mechanics that I know flopped in other subs and why. That similar conflict between base and subclass hit Way of the Four Elements too. Arcane Trickster had success with the same mechanic because it and the associated spell list enhance their base class features instead of competing with them.
…I still feel that you do not feel like an Arcane Archer by getting to use magic arrows twice per short rest….
Most of the "as an action" options that I wrote are tied to casting spells of 1st-5th level that require an action cast. Eldritch Knights will use their full action to cast a spell rather than making their attacks (they dont get the option to mix full spells with an attack until much later), so why would it be an issue for the Arcane Archer to do the same…?
…I have to disagree with the notion that they reduced the number of options for Arcane Archer because WotC thought people were overwhelmed by the number of options for Battlemaster. Not only is the Battlemaster one of the most popular fighter subclasses, but WotC elected to add MORE maneuver options in Tasha's….
That could still be added in or addressed in some other way. I didn’t include it because it wasn’t something I thought waranted feedback. You could give the feature a built in 1 use per short rest that increases to 2 @10th & 3 @18th, and an additional number of additional uses per long rest equal to the character’s Wis modifier (@min:1). (I feel Wis is a better fit than Int because fighters tend to favor Wis in my experience,. But that’s me you could use either, or give that choice to the player and tie it to the choice of cantrip.) That way it still guarantees a minimum # of uses per short, has it scale by level like you want, and gives additional uses without blowing up the scale. Like a double win with cheese, large win with dipping sauce, and and a liter of winning. All for the win. (Better than Subway all day. 😉)
Yes, absolutely, which are the exact things people complain about Eldritch Knights and why they are the 2nd or 3rd least liked fighter subclass with Champion. (#1 being the all to easily forgettable Purple Dragon Knight.) That’s why I recommended against the same system. The main subclass feature, Spellcasting, directly conflict with the main base class features, Extra Attacks. It not a problem until 5th, and then it isn’t that bad until 10th, but by 11th it stops being fun anymore because you can only ever do half of what your sposta be good at at a time and it’s frustrating. (Trust me. 🙄)
Lol, no you misunderstand. The Battle Master is designed to be the choice with all the options galore as it is intended to appeal to folks who like lots of options galore. What do option junkies always want more of? Options. That’s why battle masters got more in Tasha’s. The Arcane Archer was designed the way it was intended for folks who still want the feels but not the confusion. So what would people who don’t want too many options not want in Tasha’s? Exactly. They don’t designed every subclass to appeal equally to all players. They figure that the folks who love lots & lots of options and want to fire tons of special shots can already do that by playing a Battle Master and giving it a Longbow instead of a Longsword. (Frankly, a Wood Half-Elf Battle Master with a Archery style, Sharpshooter, and Elvish Accuracy is… *shudders* it’s like a howitzer on legs. Tip to DMs, put neither Bracers of Archery nor a quiver enchanted with swift quiver and more than a single charge on it in that campaign. Or if you do… double monsters’ HP.) For the players who love tons of stuff to do, like you and me, of corse we feel underwhelmed by the ‘Archer, we are in that group aaallll the way at the other end of that spectrum who looked at the new options in Tasha’s and said “that’s it?” This subclass was designed with maximum appeal to people who wanted a little more to do than a Champion provides ☝️but not too much. (I think if the champion had roughly this level of player agency it would probably be one of the most popular subclasses in the entire game, but they designed that for 0 level maintenance people, it’s the “set-n’-forget” option. 🤷♂️ It had to be somebody, who else?) To give you food metaphors, (because they always work) battle master is a big, thick double slice of death by chocolate with extra gooey fudge frosting, and this is for the ones who want “just a 🤏small slice of the yellow cake please, um… I’ll take chocolate frosting thank you, but not a lot.” And you’re one of those people who thinks cake is a good group. This is for the people who order one scoop in a paper cup, no toppings. The battle master is a knickerbocker glory, and you think everyday should be Ice-cream Sunday and twice on days ending in “y.” Arcane Archer is a slice of plain, a slice of white, and a bottle of water; the battle master is a slice of supreme with extra cheese and extra pepperoni, a slice of the buffalo chicken, and a fountain soda. And the reason pizza is the perfect food is because you can put anything on it so you can eat it every day and never eat the same thing twice if you don’t want. The arcane archer is Italian quinine, a few good, fresh, simple ingredients, prepared well to develop strong, bold flavors. The battle master is French Fine Dining, with a melange of ingredient painstakingly crafted over many hours with delicate techniques for a symphony of flavors. You prefer pâté to pasta.
It’s okay. We just need tums. 🥴
Trust me, I agree that the disappointing part about Arcane Archers is that they don’t get to do enough of what they’re supposed to do. That’s why I’m one of those people who just takes the battle master instead and that solves the problem for me. See, I’m not married to them being “magical” shots, as long as I’m happy with the mechanic. So “battle master” Vs “arcane archer,” “maneuvers” Vs “arcane shots,” meh… all the same to me. I take it you feel otherwise, and that’s totally understandable. Heck the whole reason I popped my head in is because I wanted to know if you were the one prophesied to lead Arcane Arches the world over into the nirvana land.
If you’re happy with the design then go to town. I’m just tryin’a give you a heads up because I see this using similar design mechanics that I know flopped in other subs and why. That similar conflict between base and subclass hit Way of the Four Elements too. Arcane Trickster had success with the same mechanic because it and the associated spell list enhance their base class features instead of competing with them.
I see the point you were trying to make more clearly now. Thank you for the clarification and abundance of analogies. I can see how simplicity may be desirable for some of the player base and will try to keep it in mind.
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The problem with that is you get curve shot at lvl 7 sneak attack, divine smite, and wild shape you get around lvl 1. So making the arcane archer not very effective and not much options at lvl 6 and lower is very hard to work with and the fact that you can use 2 shots per short/long rest is nothing short than horrid it never grows, only your options.
Hey, I am currently working on an Arcane Arche homebrew. I was wondering how you felt about me taking some of your ideas and fleshing them out with a little with some of my ideas. I know that It was pushed into the world for free; I just wanted to be curtious.
Hey, I am currently working on an Arcane Arche homebrew. I was wondering how you felt about me taking some of your ideas and fleshing them out with a little with some of my ideas. I know that It was pushed into the world for free; I just wanted to be curtious.
One of the least-liked Fighter subclasses is the Arcane Archer, due mostly to how few options it has and how little it can make use of these options per short rest. After looking over some of the spells in the PHB, it seems like there are quite a few that would work well for a magical archer. Taking some inspiration from both the Battle Master and the Way of the Four Elements monk, I wrote up replacement features for the Arcane Shot and Arcane Shot Options for the Arcane Archer.
I am putting these ideas in spoiler tags below and would appreciate feedback. The TL;DR of it is that (like a Battle Master) the Arcane Archer gains access to "Weave Dice" which are used to fuel their magical options. The magical options are based on casting spells from the PHB (along with one or two unique options) where rolling the Weave Dice somehow modifies the casting of the spell (giving a bonus to damage rolls, attack rolls, or concentration along with a few other unique modifiers).
Woven Arrows and Woven Arrow Options
3rd-level Arcane Archer feature, which replaces the Arcane Shot and Arcane Shot Options features
At 3rd level, you learn to unleash special magical effects with some of your shots. When you gain this feature, you learn three Woven Arrow Options of your choice if you meet the prerequisite. Only one option can be used per turn. These options are fueled by special dice called Weave Dice. You have three of these dice, which are d8s, which are expended when you use an option. You regain all expended dice as part of a short or long rest.
At 7th, 10th, and 15th level you gain one additional weave dice and learn two additional Woven Arrow options. Each time you learn a new Woven Arrow Option, you can also replace one option you know with another from the list, provided you meet the prerequisite.
(forgive some of the redundant naming convention)
Woven Arrow Options
The following options are available. Some options allow you to cast spells. When cast this way, the casting does not require material components and your spellcasting modifier is Intelligence. All spells cast as part of an option are considered to be cast at their base level unless otherwise stated. Spells cast this way do not require somatic or material components. Some require you to expend more than one weave die to use.
Arcane Bow
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die, to a maximum of three, to cast Catapult* using an arrow as the object moved by the spell. Roll the expended weave dice and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once. When cast this way, the spell deals magical piercing damage instead of bludgeoning.
Banishing Arrow (18th level required)
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend two or more weave dice to cast Banishing Smite but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Barrage of Arrows (7th level required)
As an action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die as an action to cast Conjure Barrage. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Branding Arrow
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Branding Smite but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Burning Arrows (10th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Flame Arrows*. Each time you hit a creature with an arrow affected by the spell, you can roll one of your expended weave dice for determining the amount of fire damage a target takes instead of 1d6. Each weave dice can only be used this way once.
Chaos Arrow
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Chaos Bolt* with the chaotic energy taking the shape of an arrow. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Dispelling Arrow (10th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or two weave dice to cast Dispel Magic. If an ability check is needed to dispel the magical effect, roll the weave dice and add the value(s) rolled to the total.
Alternatively, when you hit a creature with a ranged weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one weave die to use this option. If the target is concentrating on a spell, it must roll the weave die and subtract the value rolled from its Constitution saving throw against the damage.
Distracting Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Pyrotechnics*. When cast this way, you can target an arrow you fired from your bow no longer than 1 minute prior choosing to either produce fireworks or smoke as normal. If you choose the fireworks option, roll the weave die. All creatures which are required to make a Constitution saving throw against the effect must subtract the value rolled from the total.
Elemental Arrow
When you choose this option, select one of the following damage types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder. When you hit a creature with a ranged attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one or two weave die. The attack deals extra damage of the chosen type to the weapon’s damage equal to the value(s) rolled on the weave dice. At 10th level, you can expend up to three weave dice each time you use this feature, adding both dice to the total damage of the attack.
This option can be chosen multiple times, each time selecting a different elemental damage type. Only one type of element can be applied to an arrow at a given time
Enchanting Arrow
You summon forth a spectral arrow and fire it at a creature to try and charm it. As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Charm Person.The target of the spell must roll the weave die and subtract the value rolled from the first saving throw they make to resist the spell’s effect.
Ensnaring Arrows
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Ensnaring Strike but the spell effect must be applied to a weapon attack made with a longbow or shortbow. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Guardian Arrows (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one weave die to cast Cordon of Arrows, using your ammunition as the material component of the spell. Roll the expended weave die. The maximum number of pieces of ammunition that can be affected by this casting of the spell is increased by half the value rolled on the weave die (rounded down, minimum of 1 extra piece).
Melting Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Melf’s Acid Arrow. Roll the weave die and add the value rolled on the die to the spell attack roll.
Messaging Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave dice to cast Skywrite*. When you cast the spell this way, roll the weave dice. You can increase the maximum number of words you can form by the total value of the expended weave dice.
Piercing Arrow
When you hit with a ranged attack made with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one or more weave dice. The target takes additional piercing damage equal to the total value rolled on the expended dice. A creature standing behind the original target within 5 feet takes piercing damage equal to half the total value rolled on the expended dice, as the arrow pierces the original target and hits that creature.
Seeking Arrow
When you make an attack roll with a longbow or shortbow, you can expend one of your weave dice and roll it, adding the value to the attack roll. At 10th level, you can expend up to two of your weave dice when using this option, adding both to the attack roll. If the same value is rolled on both dice, the attack is treated as a critical hit regardless of the value rolled on the d20.
Spell Arrow (10th level required)
When you choose this option, you learn one cantrip from the Wizard spell list. On your turn, when you cast a cantrip which requires you to make a spell attack roll, you can expend one or more weave die to instead make a ranged weapon attack using a longbow or shortbow you are holding, focusing the arcane energy into one of your arrows. The spell’s normal range is replaced with that of your weapon. On a successful hit, the spell’s effect applies as normal in addition to the weapon damage. Roll the expended weave die and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
This option can be chosen more than once, each time learning a different cantrip. Additionally, each time you select this option you can replace one cantrip you know with another from the Wizard’s spell list.
Tethering Arrow (7th level required)
As an action, you can expend one or more weave dice to cast Earthbind*. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again
Thorned Arrow
As a bonus action, you can expend one or more weave die to cast Hail of Thorns. Each time you are required to make a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on the spell, roll one of the expended weave dice and add the rolled value to your total. After you have used all of the expended weave dice once, you cannot use this benefit again.
Volley of Arrows (18th level required)
As an action on your turn, you can expend two or more weave die to cast Conjure Volley. Roll the expended weave dice and the damage die for the spell separately. You can choose to replace one of the values rolled on the damage die for the spell with one of the values rolled on the weave die. Each weave dice can only replace one of the damage dice this way once.
Compared to the Battle Master, the idea is that its dice never go above a d8 and it gets less of them, but it has access to more powerful abilities to use them with.
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What most people don’t realize is that the Arcane Shot feature was designed as limited as it is because the real workhorse of the subclass is Curving Shot. In the hands of a fairly tactical player in a group inclined to “build for the team” (instead of everyone pursuing their own individual character concepts as if in a vacuum), Curving Shot is up there with Divine Smite, Sneak Attack, Wild Shape, and Eldritch Blast builds in as fat as how much work it can do.
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I don't think anyone would disagree that Curving Shot is fantastic. At the end of the day, though, if you are playing an Arcane Archer you want to feel like you are weaving magical effects into your arrows. The Arcane Shot options are interesting, but there are so very few of them and you only get to use it twice in between short rests. The fact that the Battle Master can apply a bunch of their maneuvers to ranged attacks as well just kinda digs into that wound a little deeper.
So yes, I agree Arcane Archer still has appeal, but the foundational part of the subclass is lackluster. Being a magical archer is boring if the only thing I am doing with my magic is Prestidigitation and curving my arrows around for 90% of the adventuring day.
Edit: I would also add that the Curving Shot feature isnt quite as good as the Gloomstalker's Stalker's Flurry feature (which also appeared in Xanathar's). It effectively does the same thing as curving shot (lets you make another attack after missing), but does not require you to use your bonus action, isnt limited to targeting a different creature within 60 feet, and isnt limited to ranged attacks. The only things that makes Curving Shot better is that you get it four levels earlier and it doesn't cost you another piece of ammunition.
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Yeah, but the Arcane Shot options are waaayy more powerful than the Maneuvers.
And I gotta tell ya, I’ve looked at about half of your Options and I honestly would rather play the original Arcane Archer, and here’s why:
About 10-15(ish)% of folks can easily juggle 10-12 options regularly without problem, and if they have fewer than 6 they feel constricted. (I’m guessing you would likely be in this grout.) Another 10-15(ish)% of folks are comfortable juggling as many as 3 options on the fly, maybe 4 on limited occasions, but generally 4 or more requires at least a long rest “to think it over,” and more than 6 is basically so overwhelming that they’ll say they need to think it over but really they just need to get the hell out of there because they are likely on the cusp of an anxiety attack. Somewhere between 60-80% of folks are comfortable in 4-6 range as their “on the fly” number, fewer than 4 is “too constricting,” but more than 6 is “need to think it over” territory. The remaining people are on the extreme ends of the spectrum, some can’t make a decision in less than a week’s time if they have more than 2 options total in front of them, and some can never have enough. But, like I said, those are the outliers.
You’re offering… 19 different options all day, up to 9 on the sheet at a time by 15th level. Okay, so you’re matching the Battle Master. Wanna know why the Arcane Archer got published with only 8 total options and a max of 6 on the sheet at 18th level? Because WotC’s market research showed them the same thing I figured out: more than 2-3 on the sheet max to start is too many for a lot of folks, and fewer than 8 total available options is too restrictive for a lot of folks. And that the Goldilocks zone is around 8-10 total options, and around 5 or 6 at most available under pressure (like when it’s your turn in combat. So, basically Metamagic is the baby bear, too restrictive for “the majority” of players, and Combat Superiority & Maneuvers is the Papá Bear position, tipping the scales too far too fast for a lot of players, so they designed the Archer to be like the Mama Bear and make the mostest people happy as possible.
I witness the proof every Wednesday evening during session. Some friends recently jumped into an ongoing campaign at 11th level. One of them picked Battle Master “because it seems so cool!” We’ve been meeting almost weekly since September. In all this time she has used one single superiority due to fuel one single Maneuver, once… in 10 months time. Why here are so many Maneuvers to consider that she got lost and just started picking stuff that sounded cool, even if she didn’t actually understand what they do or how they work.-Having jumped right in at 11th level she immediately started with 7 maneuvers on her sheet. Whenever she hits or something I’ll even prompt her by asking if she would like to use a Maneuver. She always pauses for less than a second and then casually declines.
Having 7 maneuvers to consider is way too much for her without holding up the game be taking as long every turn as the other three PCs combined, she knows it would take about at least 10 minutes or so for her every turn just to give herself the time to comfortably consider them all and decide if she wants to use a a maneuver and which one. But she doesn’t want to hold everything up while we would all be sitting there quietly for 10 minutes waiting for her to consider and decide. That’s a long silence which leads to pressure, which amplifies stress which just makes it even more challenging to make a decision.
She’s on the exact opposite end of the spectrum from you. If Maneuvers were as limited as Metamagic she would be much more inclined to actually use it because there is so much less to consider stuffhappier.
If I were designing a “Sposta’s (FIFY) Arcane Archer,” I would be “shooting for” (😂 😂) the following targets:
After that, I would be considering:
An additional Cantrip from the Druid list if they chose Druidcraft or from the Wiz list if they chose Prestidigitation. (Likely from an abridged list to exclude damage Cantrips, but an additional “utility/control” cantrip would be flavorful and push the needle more into the “arcane.”
A single spell with the Ritual tag from the list associated with their cantrip choice. The class level and spell level would have to be paired, so if this would come in at 7th level it would be a 1st level spell, 10th would be a 2nd level spell.
Potentially having some of the the Shot Options class level dependent (kinda like you did.). It would require at least a minimum of 2 unlocked at 18th and 15th, and maybe 3 more each as However the intention would be for the options and how the character interacts with them could work like how Druids prepare spells.
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I appreciate the feedback. There are a few issues I take
1) One thing I tried to address in my "rework" was how limited the use of Arcane Options are. Even if they are powerful, I still feel that you do not feel like an Arcane Archer by getting to use magic arrows twice per short rest. I would much rather the number of uses of Arcane Options went up with level rather than getting a small power boost at 18th level alone.
2) Most of the "as an action" options that I wrote are tied to casting spells of 1st-5th level that require an action cast. Eldritch Knights will use their full action to cast a spell rather than making their attacks (they dont get the option to mix full spells with an attack until much later), so why would it be an issue for the Arcane Archer to do the same? For any spells that are cast, I tried to find a way for the weave die to modify it in a meaningful way to make it a little stronger and more appealing to use. Admittedly, they arent as strong for some options as others, but that is part of why I am posting here. To get feedback on how I could further improve it. Saying you aren't reading all the ideas I put forth and just saying to scrap the whole thing isn't helpful feedback for me.
3) I appreciate your expertise in sales, but I have to disagree with the notion that they reduced the number of options for Arcane Archer because WotC thought people were overwhelmed by the number of options for Battlemaster. Not only is the Battlemaster one of the most popular fighter subclasses, but WotC elected to add MORE maneuver options in Tasha's. For that reason I find it unlikely that WotC feels the same way you do about the number of options being an issue.
I think giving them the option to cast one or more ritual spells could do alot to make them feel more "arcane", but at the end of the day my main issue still stands for me. If I want to play an Arcane Archer, I want to be mixing magic into several "arrows" across combat not just one or two, even if those arrows are just reflavored spells.
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(Frankly, a Wood Half-Elf Battle Master with a Archery style, Sharpshooter, and Elvish Accuracy is… *shudders* it’s like a howitzer on legs. Tip to DMs, put neither Bracers of Archery nor a quiver enchanted with swift quiver and more than a single charge on it in that campaign. Or if you do… double monsters’ HP.)
For the players who love tons of stuff to do, like you and me, of corse we feel underwhelmed by the ‘Archer, we are in that group aaallll the way at the other end of that spectrum who looked at the new options in Tasha’s and said “that’s it?” This subclass was designed with maximum appeal to people who wanted a little more to do than a Champion provides ☝️but not too much.
(I think if the champion had roughly this level of player agency it would probably be one of the most popular subclasses in the entire game, but they designed that for 0 level maintenance people, it’s the “set-n’-forget” option. 🤷♂️ It had to be somebody, who else?)
To give you food metaphors, (because they always work) battle master is a big, thick double slice of death by chocolate with extra gooey fudge frosting, and this is for the ones who want “just a 🤏small slice of the yellow cake please, um… I’ll take chocolate frosting thank you, but not a lot.” And you’re one of those people who thinks cake is a food group. This is for the people who order one scoop in a paper cup, no toppings. The battle master is a knickerbocker glory, and you think everyday should be Ice-cream Sunday and twice on days ending in “y.” Arcane Archer is a slice of plain, a slice of white, and a bottle of water; the battle master is a slice of supreme with extra cheese and extra pepperoni, a slice of the buffalo chicken, and a fountain soda. And the reason pizza is the perfect food is because you can put anything on it so you can eat it every day and never eat the same thing twice if you don’t want. The arcane archer is Italian cuisine, a few good, fresh, simple ingredients, prepared well to develop strong, bold flavors. The battle master is French Fine Dining, with a melange of ingredient painstakingly crafted over many hours with delicate techniques for a symphony of flavors. You prefer pâté to pasta.
It’s okay. We just need tums. 🥴
Trust me, I agree that the disappointing part about Arcane Archers is that they don’t get to do enough of what they’re supposed to do. That’s why I’m one of those people who just takes the battle master instead and that solves the problem for me. See, I’m not married to them being “magical” shots, as long as I’m happy with the mechanic. So “battle master” Vs “arcane archer,” “maneuvers” Vs “arcane shots,” meh… all the same to me. I take it you feel otherwise, and that’s totally understandable. Heck the whole reason I popped my head in is because I wanted to know if you were the one prophesied to lead Arcane Arches the world over into the nirvana land.
If you’re happy with the design then go to town. I’m just tryin’a give you a heads up because I see this using similar design mechanics that I know flopped in other subs and why. That similar conflict between base and subclass hit Way of the Four Elements too. Arcane Trickster had success with the same mechanic because it and the associated spell list enhance their base class features instead of competing with them.
Edit: Typos
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I see the point you were trying to make more clearly now. Thank you for the clarification and abundance of analogies. I can see how simplicity may be desirable for some of the player base and will try to keep it in mind.
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The problem with that is you get curve shot at lvl 7 sneak attack, divine smite, and wild shape you get around lvl 1. So making the arcane archer not very effective and not much options at lvl 6 and lower is very hard to work with and the fact that you can use 2 shots per short/long rest is nothing short than horrid it never grows, only your options.
Hey, I am currently working on an Arcane Arche homebrew. I was wondering how you felt about me taking some of your ideas and fleshing them out with a little with some of my ideas. I know that It was pushed into the world for free; I just wanted to be curtious.
No problemo, get down with your bad self.
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