Wondering if it's possible to make a martial class balanced if it has class features that give it immunities, resistances and activatable class features geared toward repelling or countering spells, including level 9 spells like wish.
I think immunities might be a bit much, but there is already a precedent for some resistance to magic (ancients Paladin) and repelling/countering (war/abjuration wizard).
I definitely think it would be possible, if difficult.
The problem is, spell slots are so much more plentiful than most other resources in the game, especially at higher levels. You'd have to start making the choice about when to use your ability to negate/counter the magic. You'd also have to ask if this applies to magical effects like Ki (which is explicitly stated as being magical), Smites, and non-spells from magic items.
Not that hard to do. Immunities are harder, but could be a capstone ability. Especially if it is limited to a single class of damage. Even if it is changeable after a long rest, that is a reasonable 20th level ability.
Paladin, Monk, or Barbarian seem appropriate. Monk seems thematicaly right, though Paladin already has similar abilities.
I think immunities might be a bit much, but there is already a precedent for some resistance to magic (ancients Paladin) and repelling/countering (war/abjuration wizard).
I definitely think it would be possible, if difficult.
The problem is, spell slots are so much more plentiful than most other resources in the game, especially at higher levels. You'd have to start making the choice about when to use your ability to negate/counter the magic. You'd also have to ask if this applies to magical effects like Ki (which is explicitly stated as being magical), Smites, and non-spells from magic items.
I guess the class could have different class feature options that give the player the choice to focus on specific types of spells and different aspects of spells: countering a school of magic; spells of a certain tag, condition or damage effect; spells from certain range, ability saves or spell level
Actually, thinking about this more creatively the class features don't necessarily have to directly counter spells, but rather counter aspects of them: shouting a sonic boom or throwing a bag of sneezing powder to prevent spell casters from fulfilling somatic parts of their spellcasting; throwing smoke bombs or a blinding concoction to prevent them from sight; a neurotoxin dart that prevents spellcasters from using their arms; an explosive rage potion that prevents spellcasters from concentration; maybe a special, very expensive amulet could be made that absorbs one 9th level spell from harming it's carrier, but requires repairs each time it's used.
Not that hard to do. Immunities are harder, but could be a capstone ability. Especially if it is limited to a single class of damage. Even if it is changeable after a long rest, that is a reasonable 20th level ability.
Paladin, Monk, or Barbarian seem appropriate. Monk seems thematicaly right, though Paladin already has similar abilities.
Monk and paladin class have some immunities to certain magical effects, but they got nothing in their list of class features to ward off a wish spell, which is broken if their is no way of countering it; anything that can't be countered is broken.
Wondering if it's possible to make a martial class balanced if it has class features that give it immunities, resistances and activatable class features geared toward repelling or countering spells, including level 9 spells like wish.
No, because complete and total immunity to all spells would be absurdly overpowered in certain situations and absurdly underpowered in the general case as the class's entire ability set. A full-on class has to find a way to be fun even when there are no spells happening.
You could certainly try to make a class or subclass focusing on the sort of defenses that usually work on spells, like how Rogues get Evasion, which makes them harder to kill with Fireball but, critically, isn't specifically anti-spell, so they can use it against e.g. a Beholder's eye beams. Case in point: Monks get an ability that lets them reduce damage from ranged weapon attacks. An ability that reduced damage from ranged spell attacks wouldn't be specifically anti-spell (there are non-spell ways to make a spell attack) would be completely fine as a class feature, provided it wasn't considered the end-all be-all of the class.
How often are you running into monsters using wish during a fight against this theoretical class? Personally I think that's one restriction you could do without, and I would rather hear more about the theme for the class first if its all still in theory.
For example: I want to make a martial class that locks mages up in a tower due to fear of them being possessed by demons, and maybe call them Templars. I think it would also be cool they were inspired by the faith of their Maker, so maybe the divine grants them gifts to help them do so. (You don't need to use this example)
How often are you running into monsters using wish during a fight against this theoretical class? Personally I think that's one restriction you could do without, and I would rather hear more about the theme for the class first if its all still in theory.
For example: I want to make a martial class that locks mages up in a tower due to fear of them being possessed by demons, and maybe call them Templars. I think it would also be cool they were inspired by the faith of their Maker, so maybe the divine grants them gifts to help them do so. (You don't need to use this example)
Edit: Grammar and spelling.
Well anti-magic is a part of the theme, but not the main theme. The main theme of this class is self-control, free will and agency; part of that is defying the existential chaos and randomness that is magic. This class should allow characters to defend themselves against, or nullify, magical effects and prevent spells from being cast; so long as the situations are right. How this class could work could be some power or anti-magic force to nullify magic; or use magic but not spell casting: characters could engineer devices like gear or jewelry with compressed solid forms of magic socketed inside that negate the effects of magics of that type. So, the source of the anti-magic could be magic infused technology or some natural and internal, martial equivalent of passive powers like the paladin and the monk
Anti-spellcasting could come in the form of preventing a spell caster from casting their spells by using certain equipment that prevents them from using spell components or by breaking their concentration: this can include items like smoke bombs to prevent the caster from targeting them, darts, concoctions or powders that numb or stun the spell caster from making gestures or from speaking properly (possibly depending on where the dart hits) or put spellcasters in a berserker-like rage.
So although the class is mainly about characters protecting themselves from harmful/manipulative magical effects through various possible means it also has offensive trickery meant to stop spellcasters from being able to spell cast in the first place.
Probably combine features from Artificier (for crafting), and the Abjurer Wizard. Also the spell antimagic field, may give you some more ideas to pick from as pieces (it is an 8th level spell).
Besides what I suggested above, the only closest thing I have ever made to "anti-mage" would be Domination Subclass for a Mesmer from forever ago here. It was not specific to just anti-spell casting as that isn't always common in DnD. I made a limited reaction called Disruptive Mantra, whose range, and effect was balanced around a monks stunning strike, and applied incapacitated instead of stunned.
The class itself was a half caster, but shouldn't be considered a frontline martial. That being said with powercreep from new things like Tasha's and beyond I'd probably have to go back and buff that class lol.
Wondering if it's possible to make a martial class balanced if it has class features that give it immunities, resistances and activatable class features geared toward repelling or countering spells, including level 9 spells like wish.
I think immunities might be a bit much, but there is already a precedent for some resistance to magic (ancients Paladin) and repelling/countering (war/abjuration wizard).
I definitely think it would be possible, if difficult.
The problem is, spell slots are so much more plentiful than most other resources in the game, especially at higher levels. You'd have to start making the choice about when to use your ability to negate/counter the magic. You'd also have to ask if this applies to magical effects like Ki (which is explicitly stated as being magical), Smites, and non-spells from magic items.
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Not that hard to do. Immunities are harder, but could be a capstone ability. Especially if it is limited to a single class of damage. Even if it is changeable after a long rest, that is a reasonable 20th level ability.
Paladin, Monk, or Barbarian seem appropriate. Monk seems thematicaly right, though Paladin already has similar abilities.
I guess the class could have different class feature options that give the player the choice to focus on specific types of spells and different aspects of spells: countering a school of magic; spells of a certain tag, condition or damage effect; spells from certain range, ability saves or spell level
Actually, thinking about this more creatively the class features don't necessarily have to directly counter spells, but rather counter aspects of them: shouting a sonic boom or throwing a bag of sneezing powder to prevent spell casters from fulfilling somatic parts of their spellcasting; throwing smoke bombs or a blinding concoction to prevent them from sight; a neurotoxin dart that prevents spellcasters from using their arms; an explosive rage potion that prevents spellcasters from concentration; maybe a special, very expensive amulet could be made that absorbs one 9th level spell from harming it's carrier, but requires repairs each time it's used.
Monk and paladin class have some immunities to certain magical effects, but they got nothing in their list of class features to ward off a wish spell, which is broken if their is no way of countering it; anything that can't be countered is broken.
No, because complete and total immunity to all spells would be absurdly overpowered in certain situations and absurdly underpowered in the general case as the class's entire ability set. A full-on class has to find a way to be fun even when there are no spells happening.
You could certainly try to make a class or subclass focusing on the sort of defenses that usually work on spells, like how Rogues get Evasion, which makes them harder to kill with Fireball but, critically, isn't specifically anti-spell, so they can use it against e.g. a Beholder's eye beams. Case in point: Monks get an ability that lets them reduce damage from ranged weapon attacks. An ability that reduced damage from ranged spell attacks wouldn't be specifically anti-spell (there are non-spell ways to make a spell attack) would be completely fine as a class feature, provided it wasn't considered the end-all be-all of the class.
How often are you running into monsters using wish during a fight against this theoretical class? Personally I think that's one restriction you could do without, and I would rather hear more about the theme for the class first if its all still in theory.
For example: I want to make a martial class that locks mages up in a tower due to fear of them being possessed by demons, and maybe call them Templars. I think it would also be cool they were inspired by the faith of their Maker, so maybe the divine grants them gifts to help them do so. (You don't need to use this example)
Edit: Grammar and spelling.
Well anti-magic is a part of the theme, but not the main theme. The main theme of this class is self-control, free will and agency; part of that is defying the existential chaos and randomness that is magic. This class should allow characters to defend themselves against, or nullify, magical effects and prevent spells from being cast; so long as the situations are right. How this class could work could be some power or anti-magic force to nullify magic; or use magic but not spell casting: characters could engineer devices like gear or jewelry with compressed solid forms of magic socketed inside that negate the effects of magics of that type. So, the source of the anti-magic could be magic infused technology or some natural and internal, martial equivalent of passive powers like the paladin and the monk
Anti-spellcasting could come in the form of preventing a spell caster from casting their spells by using certain equipment that prevents them from using spell components or by breaking their concentration: this can include items like smoke bombs to prevent the caster from targeting them, darts, concoctions or powders that numb or stun the spell caster from making gestures or from speaking properly (possibly depending on where the dart hits) or put spellcasters in a berserker-like rage.
So although the class is mainly about characters protecting themselves from harmful/manipulative magical effects through various possible means it also has offensive trickery meant to stop spellcasters from being able to spell cast in the first place.
Probably combine features from Artificier (for crafting), and the Abjurer Wizard. Also the spell antimagic field, may give you some more ideas to pick from as pieces (it is an 8th level spell).
Besides what I suggested above, the only closest thing I have ever made to "anti-mage" would be Domination Subclass for a Mesmer from forever ago here. It was not specific to just anti-spell casting as that isn't always common in DnD. I made a limited reaction called Disruptive Mantra, whose range, and effect was balanced around a monks stunning strike, and applied incapacitated instead of stunned.
The class itself was a half caster, but shouldn't be considered a frontline martial. That being said with powercreep from new things like Tasha's and beyond I'd probably have to go back and buff that class lol.