Since several of you sound like you have more experience when it comes to DM'ing 5e, does it remain balanced into the higher tiers? There has always been the shift towards casters being overpowered as compared to their non-casting counterparts in all editions at high levels. I think this is why the designers of 5e baked in magical (or magic-like) abilities into the martial classes.
I can say from experience that 3rd definitely became a nightmare of tactics and rolls beyond 10th level, and I have heard many say that 5e is faster in play than 3rd, but so far that has not been my experience as both a DM and a player.
I have two different groups that are approaching the end of Curse of Strahd, and are all between levels 9-10 and have a couple of magic items each. I wouldn't describe combat at this level as particularly speedy. Unless your group is really disciplined and have a mutual agreement to take turns quickly, combat's going to slow down at these levels just because of the number of options available to every person. But it's still a far cry from combat around the same level in 3.5e/Pathfinder. By the time we hit tier 3 I had to make a custom spreadsheet to keep track of all my modifiers.
Concentration goes a super long way towards keeping spellcasters in check. Can't tell you how many times the spellcasters in one of my groups have declared they're casting a long-lasting spell, only to realize they'd lose the spell they cast a few turns ago. And I don't know a single spellcaster that doesn't dread being asked for a CON save to maintain concentration. Despite being wildly powerful classes, they still feel vulnerable. Plus, 5e is incredibly stingy with 6th-9th level spells. You only get 1 spell slot of each level until 19th and 20th level, and all of the class features or magic items that create or restore spell slots or store spells max out at 5th level. So those spell slots are incredibly precious resources, and knowing my players they'd be very stingy with them.
Spellcasters are still far more likely to be able to solve a problem than martial classes, but that's not really an issue. Neither of my two group's paladins have any interest in being a magical problem solver, for example. If they can smite undead, they're happy. The bard's happiest when he gets to perform. The monk's happy when he gets to sneak and scout. The level of utility varies a lot between classes but they mostly do a good job of enabling a player's fantasies, staying relevant, and having a niche they excel in.
LOL! Totally laughing with you, not at you. That is beautiful. What a great way to highlight edition differences.
Yeeeah. I basically tried to create DDB for 3.5e and let me tell you, that took a lot of time and effort. Needless to say, I have a great deal of respect for the DDB devs. Even with a much simpler set of rules, what they do is far from trivial!
You couldn't pay me enough to go back to 3.5e. It's a heck of a lot easier for me to just tweak the few things that bother me about 5e. (That document's still a work in progress by the way, but I figure I might as well post it, since that's what this thread is for.)
I used to play a sci-fi RPG back through the 90s. Very detail oriented, very realistic. Shooting someone involved figuring out all the modifiers (cover, range, dex, specific weapon accuracy at range bracket, target size, skill, speed moving, etc etc.), rolling to hit, rolling to see how many bullets hit, rolling hit location for each bullet (or for each grenade fragment, when a single grenade could damage around a dozen people with 4-10 fragments each), rolling damage for each bullet, subtracting the armor's threshold from the damage, applying the remaining damage to the armor's absorption rating for that particular hit location, subtracting from the armor's general integrity for any damage that pierces the armor, applying remaining damage to the person wearing the armor (all separate, for each bullet), applying dex penalties from the attack and the damage. Okay, next player, go.
The game was a ton of fun, but a simple 10 second firefight with new players could take a half hour.
LOL! Totally laughing with you, not at you. That is beautiful. What a great way to highlight edition differences.
Yeeeah. I basically tried to create DDB for 3.5e and let me tell you, that took a lot of time and effort. Needless to say, I have a great deal of respect for the DDB devs. Even with a much simpler set of rules, what they do is far from trivial!
You couldn't pay me enough to go back to 3.5e. It's a heck of a lot easier for me to just tweak the few things that bother me about 5e. (That document's still a work in progress by the way, but I figure I might as well post it, since that's what this thread is for.)
Thats what dndtools.net is for. Has everything you need for 3e at the same place. Got shut down often by wotc though. But yeah has everything including character builder.
But even with that i wouldnt go back to 3e. 5e is much easier to develop on.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
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Thats what dndtools.net is for. Has everything you need for 3e at the same place. Got shut down often by wotc though. But yeah has everything including character builder.
Yeah, but it's also illegal and I'm pretty sure it didn't have a character builder at the time either.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
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i know its illegal. But tell that to wotc who completely refused to have tools for years on end because of fear of the internet.
You're not justifying copyright infringement because they just haven't released the products you want them to, are you?
It's one thing to make your own spreadsheet at home. It's another to publish it online for others to use. Suppose someone at WotC had been working on some online tools, and a website comes along and publishes online tools that do the same thing. That might shut down the entire WotC plan to do the same thing. If the information is the property of WotC, that website would have infringed on WotC's ability to make money off of their own product. Is that justified because "we waited too long, so we have a right to do it?" What if the other company supports their tools with ad revenue or a donate button and started making money off it? 'But I want it' isn't a great justification for copyright infringement.
about 50 different websites offers these tools, already. oneof them has even been used here on beyond !
but no i'm not... if there was something official i would tell you, which i did with fantasy ground since that is official. but to answer your original question of you saying nothing offers this level for 3e. i told you, thats not true, tools do it. now if you dont want to use it because of copyright infrigement then it is your call. i as merely saying you were wrong that some levels of database do actually exists. and two of them are actually officials at it. they are called Roll20 and Fantasy Ground.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
about 50 different websites offers these tools, already. oneof them has even been used here on beyond !
but no i'm not... if there was something official i would tell you, which i did with fantasy ground since that is official. but to answer your original question of you saying nothing offers this level for 3e. i told you, thats not true, tools do it. now if you dont want to use it because of copyright infrigement then it is your call. i as merely saying you were wrong that some levels of database do actually exists. and two of them are actually officials at it. they are called Roll20 and Fantasy Ground.
Well, no, I wasn't wrong. I haven't said anything about databases. That was somebody else.
And the fact that other websites are infringing on copyright does not excuse the infringement. The fact that everyone under the sun made 'Calvin peeing on things' stickers for your car doesn't excuse the fact that those people were all stealing financial opportunities and intellectual property from the creator of the comic (one of the reasons he stopped writing it), who never authorized any of that. Same thing applies here. WotC owns that intellectual property. The fact that they are a 'big company' and aren't doing what people would like doesn't excuse the infringement. Want to make something on your own? Fine. Want to share it with others? Different story. That's all I'm saying.
you do realise that copyrights cannot be words ? they can copyright the books, but not the words inside. hence why many of these sites are still up to this day. the only reason people close their sites to a cease is because they dont have the money to go to the court to defend themselves and thus preffer the fear effect and just cease. but yeah thats a different story. but no, one cannot copyright words. otherwise right now we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
you do realise that copyrights cannot be words ? they can copyright the books, but not the words inside. hence why many of these sites are still up to this day. the only reason people close their sites to a cease is because they dont have the money to go to the court to defend themselves and thus preffer the fear effect and just cease. but yeah thats a different story. but no, one cannot copyright words. otherwise right now we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Just flat out wrong. Not even close to being correct.
For one...how would you copyright a book, without copyrighting the words in the book? What is it that you'd be copyrighting? The paper?
For two...just flat out wrong. Did you even look this up?
You can't copyright individual words, or slogans. Those can be covered under Trademark, which is not the same thing and not automatic. Copyright is an automatic protection (you do not have to register to get it, although registration can help you protect it in court) to any "original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture". (https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html). That's a 30 second Google, man.
All a book is are the words, in a particular order. Copyright applies to books--in whatever form. Electronic, paper, recited and recorded on audio. Thus, as soon as any substantial parts of the Player's Handbook were recorded in any medium, they were copyrighted.
You cant copyright words, not sentences. Obviously if I went and made a DND book and copied half of the PhB, it’s copyright. But if I put Paladin, Wizard, Rogue and Warlock in the same sentence, they can’t copyright me. Maybe. Just an example of one, maybe something less specific... hm... if I made it with a license to make DND books, but not copy them.
You can copyright the theme. Ex: Fred makes ‘The Adventures of Elephant Man!’ And Johnny makes ‘The Adventures of Man-Elephant’ an both are about a half-elephant half-human superhero fighting against elephant poachers, Fred can sue Johnny.
You cant copyright words, not sentences. Obviously if I went and made a DND book and copied half of the PhB, it’s copyright. But if I put Paladin, Wizard, Rogue and Warlock in the same sentence, they can’t copyright me.
You can copyright the theme. Ex: Fred makes ‘The Adventures of Elephant Man!’ And Johnny makes ‘The Adventures of Man-Elephant’ an both are about a half-elephant half-human superhero fighting against elephant poachers, Fred can sue Johnny.
If he meant "you can't copyright individual words", he should have written that. What he wrote was "they can copyright the books, but not the words inside." That's absurd. What you are copyrighting when you create a written work (or oral recorded work, etc) are the patterns of words in the work. Words, in the work. In other words, "the words inside".
You cannot copyright systems--rolling dice to make an attack is not a copyrightable concept. But you can copyright expressions of ideas. Tables, the legal system has determined, are expressions of ideas. So tables from RPGs, along with the sentences inside them, are protected under copyright. You print the same tables, with the same numbers and row/column headings, you are in violation.
Yes, you can use the word Paladin. But if you use the word Paladin to express the same concept, for example in the same relationship to the words and concept as 'Divine Smite', you are likely already infringing. Copyright does not cover only verbatim copying of entire sentences, it's much more nuanced than that. If I paraphrase every sentence of Storm of Swords, never copying a single one word for word but relating the same ideas in the same order, I am infringing on the copyright of the author.
For "House rules you use on your 5e campaign?" I have a few for character creation and advancement.
Players start with a feat, this makes the characters more unique IMO and gives them an extra feature when they don't have many of them at low levels.
When rolling stats, If your highest number is lower than 16 before modifiers, you can increase it to 16, and if your second highest is lower than 15 before modifiers, you can increase it to 15. This way players are guaranteed to have decent enough stats, and I don't need to worry about wether players can reroll stats.
When rolling for HP at level up, if you roll below average you add +1 to the roll. This way it averages out to be the same as the default HP option, but you still get the randomness of rolling, and rolling a 1 for HP isn't as bad.
For "House rules you use on your 5e campaign?" I have a few for character creation and advancement.
Players start with a feat, this makes the characters more unique IMO and gives them an extra feature when they don't have many of them at low levels.
When rolling stats, If your highest number is lower than 16 before modifiers, you can increase it to 16, and if your second highest is lower than 15 before modifiers, you can increase it to 15. This way players are guaranteed to have decent enough stats, and I don't need to worry about wether players can reroll stats.
When rolling for HP at level up, if you roll below average you add +1 to the roll. This way it averages out to be the same as the default HP option, but you still get the randomness of rolling, and rolling a 1 for HP isn't as bad.
I think it was Rolemaster that had an ability rolling concept that was similar. It was a 100 point scale, and if you had scores below 30, you could take two of them and make them 90s, if you put them into the abilities that were central to your class. I think the assumption was that, if you had any abilities below 30 out of 100, you weren't likely to have survived long enough to become an adventurer :)
Back in 2nd ed, we used to do HP by saying that, after you roll, you can choose instead to take a second roll, rolled by the DM. But then you had to take that roll. It tended to average things out more too. But I like the +1 idea below average. I think what you're doing is raising the average up to the next whole number--up from 4.5 to 5 on a d8, from 5.5 to 6 on a d10, etc.
When rolling for HP at level up, if you roll below average you add +1 to the roll. This way it averages out to be the same as the default HP option, but you still get the randomness of rolling, and rolling a 1 for HP isn't as bad.
This is pretty clever! Might use it in my own games.
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I have two different groups that are approaching the end of Curse of Strahd, and are all between levels 9-10 and have a couple of magic items each. I wouldn't describe combat at this level as particularly speedy. Unless your group is really disciplined and have a mutual agreement to take turns quickly, combat's going to slow down at these levels just because of the number of options available to every person. But it's still a far cry from combat around the same level in 3.5e/Pathfinder. By the time we hit tier 3 I had to make a custom spreadsheet to keep track of all my modifiers.
Concentration goes a super long way towards keeping spellcasters in check. Can't tell you how many times the spellcasters in one of my groups have declared they're casting a long-lasting spell, only to realize they'd lose the spell they cast a few turns ago. And I don't know a single spellcaster that doesn't dread being asked for a CON save to maintain concentration. Despite being wildly powerful classes, they still feel vulnerable. Plus, 5e is incredibly stingy with 6th-9th level spells. You only get 1 spell slot of each level until 19th and 20th level, and all of the class features or magic items that create or restore spell slots or store spells max out at 5th level. So those spell slots are incredibly precious resources, and knowing my players they'd be very stingy with them.
Spellcasters are still far more likely to be able to solve a problem than martial classes, but that's not really an issue. Neither of my two group's paladins have any interest in being a magical problem solver, for example. If they can smite undead, they're happy. The bard's happiest when he gets to perform. The monk's happy when he gets to sneak and scout. The level of utility varies a lot between classes but they mostly do a good job of enabling a player's fantasies, staying relevant, and having a niche they excel in.
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LOL! Totally laughing with you, not at you. That is beautiful. What a great way to highlight edition differences.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Yeah, I had a spreadsheet as well for the 7 attacks per round for my fighter in 3rd. It was a bit... ridiculous.
Yeeeah. I basically tried to create DDB for 3.5e and let me tell you, that took a lot of time and effort. Needless to say, I have a great deal of respect for the DDB devs. Even with a much simpler set of rules, what they do is far from trivial!
You couldn't pay me enough to go back to 3.5e. It's a heck of a lot easier for me to just tweak the few things that bother me about 5e. (That document's still a work in progress by the way, but I figure I might as well post it, since that's what this thread is for.)
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I used to play a sci-fi RPG back through the 90s. Very detail oriented, very realistic. Shooting someone involved figuring out all the modifiers (cover, range, dex, specific weapon accuracy at range bracket, target size, skill, speed moving, etc etc.), rolling to hit, rolling to see how many bullets hit, rolling hit location for each bullet (or for each grenade fragment, when a single grenade could damage around a dozen people with 4-10 fragments each), rolling damage for each bullet, subtracting the armor's threshold from the damage, applying the remaining damage to the armor's absorption rating for that particular hit location, subtracting from the armor's general integrity for any damage that pierces the armor, applying remaining damage to the person wearing the armor (all separate, for each bullet), applying dex penalties from the attack and the damage. Okay, next player, go.
The game was a ton of fun, but a simple 10 second firefight with new players could take a half hour.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Thats what dndtools.net is for. Has everything you need for 3e at the same place. Got shut down often by wotc though. But yeah has everything including character builder.
But even with that i wouldnt go back to 3e. 5e is much easier to develop on.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
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--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Yeah, but it's also illegal and I'm pretty sure it didn't have a character builder at the time either.
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i know its illegal. But tell that to wotc who completely refused to have tools for years on end because of fear of the internet.
For now... It is still the best 3e content ever made. And i doubt wizard to ever do a 3e version of ddb.
Otherwise... You still have fantasy ground who is free and do has 3e content srd availlable for free.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
You're not justifying copyright infringement because they just haven't released the products you want them to, are you?
It's one thing to make your own spreadsheet at home. It's another to publish it online for others to use. Suppose someone at WotC had been working on some online tools, and a website comes along and publishes online tools that do the same thing. That might shut down the entire WotC plan to do the same thing. If the information is the property of WotC, that website would have infringed on WotC's ability to make money off of their own product. Is that justified because "we waited too long, so we have a right to do it?" What if the other company supports their tools with ad revenue or a donate button and started making money off it? 'But I want it' isn't a great justification for copyright infringement.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
about 50 different websites offers these tools, already. oneof them has even been used here on beyond !
but no i'm not... if there was something official i would tell you, which i did with fantasy ground since that is official. but to answer your original question of you saying nothing offers this level for 3e. i told you, thats not true, tools do it. now if you dont want to use it because of copyright infrigement then it is your call. i as merely saying you were wrong that some levels of database do actually exists. and two of them are actually officials at it. they are called Roll20 and Fantasy Ground.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Well, no, I wasn't wrong. I haven't said anything about databases. That was somebody else.
And the fact that other websites are infringing on copyright does not excuse the infringement. The fact that everyone under the sun made 'Calvin peeing on things' stickers for your car doesn't excuse the fact that those people were all stealing financial opportunities and intellectual property from the creator of the comic (one of the reasons he stopped writing it), who never authorized any of that. Same thing applies here. WotC owns that intellectual property. The fact that they are a 'big company' and aren't doing what people would like doesn't excuse the infringement. Want to make something on your own? Fine. Want to share it with others? Different story. That's all I'm saying.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
you do realise that copyrights cannot be words ?
they can copyright the books, but not the words inside. hence why many of these sites are still up to this day.
the only reason people close their sites to a cease is because they dont have the money to go to the court to defend themselves and thus preffer the fear effect and just cease.
but yeah thats a different story. but no, one cannot copyright words. otherwise right now we wouldn't be having this discussion.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Uh, no. You can't reproduce entire sentences of a copyrighted work and pretend you're not violating copyright. The entire work is protected.
Individual words or names are another thing, but there's trademark laws for that.
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Just flat out wrong. Not even close to being correct.
For one...how would you copyright a book, without copyrighting the words in the book? What is it that you'd be copyrighting? The paper?
For two...just flat out wrong. Did you even look this up?
You can't copyright individual words, or slogans. Those can be covered under Trademark, which is not the same thing and not automatic. Copyright is an automatic protection (you do not have to register to get it, although registration can help you protect it in court) to any "original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture". (https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html). That's a 30 second Google, man.
All a book is are the words, in a particular order. Copyright applies to books--in whatever form. Electronic, paper, recited and recorded on audio. Thus, as soon as any substantial parts of the Player's Handbook were recorded in any medium, they were copyrighted.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Think you’re misinterpreting it.
You cant copyright words, not sentences. Obviously if I went and made a DND book and copied half of the PhB, it’s copyright. But if I put Paladin, Wizard, Rogue and Warlock in the same sentence, they can’t copyright me. Maybe. Just an example of one, maybe something less specific... hm... if I made it with a license to make DND books, but not copy them.
You can copyright the theme. Ex: Fred makes ‘The Adventures of Elephant Man!’ And Johnny makes ‘The Adventures of Man-Elephant’ an both are about a half-elephant half-human superhero fighting against elephant poachers, Fred can sue Johnny.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
If he meant "you can't copyright individual words", he should have written that. What he wrote was "they can copyright the books, but not the words inside." That's absurd. What you are copyrighting when you create a written work (or oral recorded work, etc) are the patterns of words in the work. Words, in the work. In other words, "the words inside".
You cannot copyright systems--rolling dice to make an attack is not a copyrightable concept. But you can copyright expressions of ideas. Tables, the legal system has determined, are expressions of ideas. So tables from RPGs, along with the sentences inside them, are protected under copyright. You print the same tables, with the same numbers and row/column headings, you are in violation.
Yes, you can use the word Paladin. But if you use the word Paladin to express the same concept, for example in the same relationship to the words and concept as 'Divine Smite', you are likely already infringing. Copyright does not cover only verbatim copying of entire sentences, it's much more nuanced than that. If I paraphrase every sentence of Storm of Swords, never copying a single one word for word but relating the same ideas in the same order, I am infringing on the copyright of the author.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
For "House rules you use on your 5e campaign?" I have a few for character creation and advancement.
Players start with a feat, this makes the characters more unique IMO and gives them an extra feature when they don't have many of them at low levels.
When rolling stats, If your highest number is lower than 16 before modifiers, you can increase it to 16, and if your second highest is lower than 15 before modifiers, you can increase it to 15. This way players are guaranteed to have decent enough stats, and I don't need to worry about wether players can reroll stats.
When rolling for HP at level up, if you roll below average you add +1 to the roll. This way it averages out to be the same as the default HP option, but you still get the randomness of rolling, and rolling a 1 for HP isn't as bad.
I think it was Rolemaster that had an ability rolling concept that was similar. It was a 100 point scale, and if you had scores below 30, you could take two of them and make them 90s, if you put them into the abilities that were central to your class. I think the assumption was that, if you had any abilities below 30 out of 100, you weren't likely to have survived long enough to become an adventurer :)
Back in 2nd ed, we used to do HP by saying that, after you roll, you can choose instead to take a second roll, rolled by the DM. But then you had to take that roll. It tended to average things out more too. But I like the +1 idea below average. I think what you're doing is raising the average up to the next whole number--up from 4.5 to 5 on a d8, from 5.5 to 6 on a d10, etc.
Looking for new subclasses, spells, magic items, feats, and races? Opinions welcome :)
Remember the old days when this thread was about house rules for playing D&D?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is pretty clever! Might use it in my own games.
The Forum Infestation (TM)