I fixed some stuff. Now Dragonfear has a max number of turns it lasts and Armor lasts a round.
It still lasts essentially the entire combat and has a ridiculously huge AOE since you prof bonus at that level is +6. Give the enemies a save to end it at the end of each turn or have it require concentration.
This is reviving a topic from this thread from a while ago, but I recently had a new idea for fixing the Undying warlock, specifically replacing its first level ability "Among the Dead." The new 1st level feature, called Veils of Undeath, allows me to accomplish three things:
1) Make the Undying further distinct from the Undead patron, focusing on survivability and extending life rather than becoming Undead
2) Play with more mechanic ideas for temporary hit points that come with an added bonus (similar in concept to Armor of Agathys)
3) Play a little bit more heavily into the established lore surrounding Undying patrons, and how different types of patron may have different focuses on what "undeath" means
Ill admit, its a longer ability since it has options to choose from, but I would love to hear some constructive feedback.
Veils of Undeath
Starting at 1st level, whenever you gain temporary hit points you can use this feature to draw upon the powers of undeath. You gain additional temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier and gain one of the following traits of your choice:
Veil of the Aereni. You have resistance to necrotic damage and advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed. Additionally, if an undead damages you with an attack or other harmful effect, it takes 5 radiant damage.
Veil of the Bloodstone. You have resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. Additionally, when you hit with a melee attack you can reduce the number of temporary hit points you have to deal additional necrotic damage equal to the amount reduced to the target.
Veil of the Lich. When a creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to deal 1d6 cold damage to it. If you would lose 10 15 or more temporary hit points from the attack, the creature must also make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, it takes an additional 1d6 cold damage and is paralyzed until the start of its next turn.
When your temporary hit points are reduced to 0, any ongoing effect from this feature immediately ends. An ongoing effect also ends early if you replace the affected temporary hit points with those from another source. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier, regaining all expended uses following a long rest. (not sure if I want to add this limitation, since all of the benefits are already limited due to only being active while you have temp HP)
The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
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The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
But at 2nd level they could easily pick up the invocation that give them False Life at will, and Armour of Agathys scales pretty well so at 5th level you're looking at 20 thp + resistance to bludge/slash/pierc & 15 cold rebound each attack that hits you. And that's before we get into all the other ways you can get temporary hit points:
Inspiring Leader = thp every SR Storm Herald Barb = thp every round Heroism = thp every round Twilight Cleric = thp every round Dream Druid = thp as a BA Glamour Bard = thp as a BA
The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
But at 2nd level they could easily pick up the invocation that give them False Life at will, and Armour of Agathys scales pretty well so at 5th level you're looking at 20 thp + resistance to bludge/slash/pierc & 15 cold rebound each attack that hits you. And that's before we get into all the other ways you can get temporary hit points:
Inspiring Leader = thp every SR Storm Herald Barb = thp every round Heroism = thp every round Twilight Cleric = thp every round Dream Druid = thp as a BA Glamour Bard = thp as a BA
Yes. It is my intent for it to synergize well with other features and abilities in the game which award temp HP. Yes, I am aware Warlocks get invocations and spells that award temp HP that scale well. Thats all by design. I understand that that may mean these abilities need to be dialed back, this is just the first iteration to get the idea out there and get feedback.
My main goal is for each option to not just give a fun bonus to mundane temp HP, but to hopefully scale well so at encourage the player to invest in using invocations, spells, and feats to keep their temp HP up. If anyone has ideas, please share them
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Alrighty. I know I said I would get around to this sooner, but life happened at me. I did promise I would get to it though, so here I am. I should have my thoughts and suggestions to you sometime this weekend hopefully.
The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
But at 2nd level they could easily pick up the invocation that give them False Life at will, and Armour of Agathys scales pretty well so at 5th level you're looking at 20 thp + resistance to bludge/slash/pierc & 15 cold rebound each attack that hits you. And that's before we get into all the other ways you can get temporary hit points:
Inspiring Leader = thp every SR Storm Herald Barb = thp every round Heroism = thp every round Twilight Cleric = thp every round Dream Druid = thp as a BA Glamour Bard = thp as a BA
Yes. It is my intent for it to synergize well with other features and abilities in the game which award temp HP. Yes, I am aware Warlocks get invocations and spells that award temp HP that scale well. Thats all by design. I understand that that may mean these abilities need to be dialed back, this is just the first iteration to get the idea out there and get feedback.
My main goal is for each option to not just give a fun bonus to mundane temp HP, but to hopefully scale well so at encourage the player to invest in using invocations, spells, and feats to keep their temp HP up. If anyone has ideas, please share them
Sorry, but now I'm confused. You think it isn't very powerful b/c thp is hard to come by, but thp isn't hard to come by so it is very powerful, but that's a good thing because you want it to be so powerful the player feels like they have to build their entire character around it so they can keep it up all the time?
Veil of the Lich. When a creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to deal 1d6 cold damage to it. If you would lose 10 or more temporary hit points from the attack, the creature must also make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, it takes an additional 1d6 cold damage and is paralyzed until the start of its next turn.
This is the main one that is super exploitable, no-concentration 1-round paralysis that can interrupt an enemy's turn. If you have a Twilight Cleric, a Glamour Bard in the party this is going to be available & triggering every round of combat from 5th level onwards (8th level onwards if the best you can do is have someone cast Heroism on you). Then they need only pick up Eldritch Smite + Pact of the Blade to deal: 2d8+4+8d8 damage with a critical hit on that paralyzed foe twice every SR.
TBH, you basically have to build this character as 5-Glamour-Bard + 5-This-Warlock, or your basically shooting yourself in the foot.
The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
But at 2nd level they could easily pick up the invocation that give them False Life at will, and Armour of Agathys scales pretty well so at 5th level you're looking at 20 thp + resistance to bludge/slash/pierc & 15 cold rebound each attack that hits you. And that's before we get into all the other ways you can get temporary hit points:
Inspiring Leader = thp every SR Storm Herald Barb = thp every round Heroism = thp every round Twilight Cleric = thp every round Dream Druid = thp as a BA Glamour Bard = thp as a BA
Yes. It is my intent for it to synergize well with other features and abilities in the game which award temp HP. Yes, I am aware Warlocks get invocations and spells that award temp HP that scale well. Thats all by design. I understand that that may mean these abilities need to be dialed back, this is just the first iteration to get the idea out there and get feedback.
My main goal is for each option to not just give a fun bonus to mundane temp HP, but to hopefully scale well so at encourage the player to invest in using invocations, spells, and feats to keep their temp HP up. If anyone has ideas, please share them
Sorry, but now I'm confused. You think it isn't very powerful b/c thp is hard to come by, but thp isn't hard to come by so it is very powerful, but that's a good thing because you want it to be so powerful the player feels like they have to build their entire character around it so they can keep it up all the time?
I dont think that THP is hard to come by, just that it is hard to get alot of it at once, by the nature that it does not stack. Armor of Agathys starts out at 5 temp HP at level one and then maxes out at 25 using your 5th level slot. Yes, you can have 10+ temporary hit points using upcast False Life or Armor of Agathys, but it means dedicating a Warlock spell slot to giving yourself temp HP, which is what I am hoping this would encourage. The patron is the Undying, so I want to encourage the warlock to take steps to proactively avoid death (while still trying to keep the abilities distinctly different from "undeath" and the Undead patron).
Veil of the Lich. When a creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to deal 1d6 cold damage to it. If you would lose 10 or more temporary hit points from the attack, the creature must also make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, it takes an additional 1d6 cold damage and is paralyzed until the start of its next turn.
This is the main one that is super exploitable, no-concentration 1-round paralysis that can interrupt an enemy's turn.
A few things to consider:
its a debuff restricted solely to creatures hitting you with melee attacks, so there will still be enemies who can drain your temp HP without any chance of the adverse effects.
It only procs if a single attack removes 10 or more temp HP. If an enemy has multiattack but only hits you for 9 damage on each attack, then you're out of luck. If you have 9 or fewer temp HP remaining, you are out of luck
Its a Constitution save, which beefy melee-focused at the very least probably wont have it as a low stat. If its proficient in Con saves or has a Con above 20, you may be out of luck even if its successfully hitting for 10+ damage with each attack.
If you have a Twilight Cleric, a Glamour Bard in the party this is going to be available & triggering every round of combat from 5th level onwards (8th level onwards if the best you can do is have someone cast Heroism on you). Then they need only pick up Eldritch Smite + Pact of the Blade to deal: 2d8+4+8d8 damage with a critical hit on that paralyzed foe twice every SR.
TBH, you basically have to build this character as 5-Glamour-Bard + 5-This-Warlock, or your basically shooting yourself in the foot.
Im confused, a Glamour Bard only grants 8 temp HP and Veil of the Lich specifically requires you to lose 10 temporary hit points for a chance of paralysis to occur. The glamour bard would need to be at least 11th level to grant more than 10 temporary hit points with each use.
Twilight Cleric would certainly be a potent combo, but thats because Twilight Sanctuary is so strong. I do not want an existing very powerful ability to discourage from exploring interesting new mechanics. Regardless, for Twilight Sanctuary to guarantee at least 10 temporary hit points every round, the Cleric would have to be level 9 and the cleric has to be at least level 4 for it to have a chance of awarding 10 HP, so it wont be a combo granting a chance of paralysis at level 1.
There may be some changes I can make to dial it in, but I dont think the ability needs to be thrown out altogether. I could see increasing the threshold from 10 to 15 or maybe replacing paralysis with a different debuff (I started with that one because I was drawing inspiration from the lich stat block, as it is a popular Undying patron type). What change could I make that would make this ability feel more fair?
Im confused, a Glamour Bard only grants 8 temp HP and Veil of the Lich specifically requires you to lose 10 temporary hit points for a chance of paralysis to occur. The glamour bard would need to be at least 11th level to grant more than 10 temporary hit points with each use.
You're proposed feature also causes you to gain +CHA to all thp you gain which means 8 thp becomes 11-13 thp. Similarly once your cleric or bard gets a +5 spellcasting ability modifier Heroism grants +5 thp every round, to which you add another +5 from your CHA = 10 thp every round. Twilight Cleric gives thp = 1d6+level which means at level 5 that's 1d6+5+CHA which is guaranteed to be at least 10. Similarly, False Life give 1d4+4 which once you get +5 CHA is guaranteed to be at least 10.
Okay, so…. Being as I was not particularly familiar with the Way of the Ascendant Dragon, I figured I would first reread the official subclass to refresh my memory and see what I thought needed to be fixed about it.
I was about halfway through it (just past the 6th level feature) and had a total of 4 ideas on what I would change. I had come up with 2 really minor adjustments I would make (1s on a 1-5 scale), a fairly minor adjustment (2 on a 1-5), and 1 fairly significant change (4½ on a 1-5). By the time I finished reading through the subclass I was up to 3 “really minor” adjustments, still only the 1 “fairly minor” adjustment, and 1 new “moderate adjustment” (3 on the 1-5), but that’s it. (They had already addressed the “significant change” I would have made, just in a way I personally think was kinda clumsy.*👇)
So then I went and checked out your proposed version of the subclass and it gives me absolutely no pleasure to inform you that I would rather play the official version. It’s better written, better balanced, and has far more flavor. Your subclass is simultaneously too powerful and too resource expensive, and it has none of the interesting flavor and feel of the official version. You dropped all the stuff that makes the WotC version seem fun and interesting, focused entirely on combat related features, made them all too powerful, and than slapped Ki costs on them that are so high I would never use them.
While you may be very happy with your subclass and think it’s great and fun to play, I personally have to disagree. I’m sorry. I’m sure you were hoping for a more positive review, and I really wish I could give it to you, truly I do. Unfortunately I cannot.
*👉 The significant change I was thinking of was basically identical to what they included as Augment Breath. Except they added it as a subfeature under Ascendant Aspect instead of including it as part of the basic Breath of the Dragon feature as I would have done. I have a good idea why they did it that way. I personally don’t agree with it, but I can understand it.
Im confused, a Glamour Bard only grants 8 temp HP and Veil of the Lich specifically requires you to lose 10 temporary hit points for a chance of paralysis to occur. The glamour bard would need to be at least 11th level to grant more than 10 temporary hit points with each use.
You're proposed feature also causes you to gain +CHA to all thp you gain which means 8 thp becomes 11-13 thp. Similarly once your cleric or bard gets a +5 spellcasting ability modifier Heroism grants +5 thp every round, to which you add another +5 from your CHA = 10 thp every round. Twilight Cleric gives thp = 1d6+level which means at level 5 that's 1d6+5+CHA which is guaranteed to be at least 10. Similarly, False Life give 1d4+4 which once you get +5 CHA is guaranteed to be at least 10.
Ahhhhh. Of course. Good point. This discussion has shown me that giving the Warlock a flat bonus to how many temp HP they get probably isnt necessary. Removing that should make the abilities you mentioned less exploitable, but just to be safe I will bump the threshold of the Veil of the Lich up from 10 to 15, and we can take it from there.
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That’s fair. (You should see some of my earliest stuff. 🙄 **woofta** It was baaaaaad….) Lemme ask you a few sincere question please.
What is it about the Way of the Ascendant Dragon that you do like?
What is it about the subclass that you feel is unsatisfying?
Why?
Whenever I feel a desire to make a “FIFY” version of something WotC wrote, it’s because of two facts: 1) I want to like the subclass, or spieces, etc., and 2) there’s something about it that makes me not like it. So the first thing I do is determine what it is I want to like, what it is I don’t, and why I like or dislike those things.
With those pieces of info it helps me plan out fix, kinda like a roadmap with the stops all marked out, or a shopping list with everything all arranged at least roughly in the order in which I’ll come across them in the store. If the list is in a different order (alphabetical, stream of consciousness, etc.) I’ll still end up getting just about everything on the list, but I’ll be going all over the store crisscrossing my own steps so it takes much longer and I inevitably miss one or two things.
I’m not saying that you or anyone else should or shouldn’t do it this way or any other, just explaining how I do it. But it’ll help my understanding of things.
Im confused, a Glamour Bard only grants 8 temp HP and Veil of the Lich specifically requires you to lose 10 temporary hit points for a chance of paralysis to occur. The glamour bard would need to be at least 11th level to grant more than 10 temporary hit points with each use.
You're proposed feature also causes you to gain +CHA to all thp you gain which means 8 thp becomes 11-13 thp. Similarly once your cleric or bard gets a +5 spellcasting ability modifier Heroism grants +5 thp every round, to which you add another +5 from your CHA = 10 thp every round. Twilight Cleric gives thp = 1d6+level which means at level 5 that's 1d6+5+CHA which is guaranteed to be at least 10. Similarly, False Life give 1d4+4 which once you get +5 CHA is guaranteed to be at least 10.
Ahhhhh. Of course. Good point. This discussion has shown me that giving the Warlock a flat bonus to how many temp HP they get probably isnt necessary. Removing that should make the abilities you mentioned less exploitable, but just to be safe I will bump the threshold of the Veil of the Lich up from 10 to 15, and we can take it from there.
Yeah, I think the flat bonus to all thp is what really make it exploitable since there are so many ways to get a little bit of thp very frequently, any flat bonus can have quite disproportionate effects. thp was really designed around the fact that it doesn't stack.
It still lasts essentially the entire combat and has a ridiculously huge AOE since you prof bonus at that level is +6. Give the enemies a save to end it at the end of each turn or have it require concentration.
Let's go... saves.
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
Everything's fixed.
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
This is reviving a topic from this thread from a while ago, but I recently had a new idea for fixing the Undying warlock, specifically replacing its first level ability "Among the Dead." The new 1st level feature, called Veils of Undeath, allows me to accomplish three things:
1) Make the Undying further distinct from the Undead patron, focusing on survivability and extending life rather than becoming Undead
2) Play with more mechanic ideas for temporary hit points that come with an added bonus (similar in concept to Armor of Agathys)
3) Play a little bit more heavily into the established lore surrounding Undying patrons, and how different types of patron may have different focuses on what "undeath" means
Ill admit, its a longer ability since it has options to choose from, but I would love to hear some constructive feedback.
Veils of Undeath
Starting at 1st level, whenever you gain temporary hit points you can use this feature to draw upon the powers of undeath. You
gain additional temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier andgain one of the following traits of your choice:Veil of the Aereni. You have resistance to necrotic damage and advantage on saving throws against being charmed, frightened, or possessed. Additionally, if an undead damages you with an attack or other harmful effect, it takes 5 radiant damage.
Veil of the Bloodstone. You have resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage. Additionally, when you hit with a melee attack you can reduce the number of temporary hit points you have to deal additional necrotic damage equal to the amount reduced to the target.
Veil of the Lich. When a creature hits you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction to deal 1d6 cold damage to it. If you would lose
1015 or more temporary hit points from the attack, the creature must also make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, it takes an additional 1d6 cold damage and is paralyzed until the start of its next turn.When your temporary hit points are reduced to 0, any ongoing effect from this feature immediately ends. An ongoing effect also ends early if you replace the affected temporary hit points with those from another source. You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier, regaining all expended uses following a long rest. (not sure if I want to add this limitation, since all of the benefits are already limited due to only being active while you have temp HP)
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Somehow these feel kind of OP for 1st level.
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
The intent to balance it is that at lower levels you arent going to be able to get too many temp HP from any single source. For example, at 1st level a Warlock could get at most 8 temp HP, and when that temp HP is gone, so is the benefit of the ability. Im sure they could all stand to be dialed back a little, but the intent is for their power to be balanced by being tied to how long you are able to keep your temp hit points
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Fair enough, so they all last maybe 2 turns at best.
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
But at 2nd level they could easily pick up the invocation that give them False Life at will, and Armour of Agathys scales pretty well so at 5th level you're looking at 20 thp + resistance to bludge/slash/pierc & 15 cold rebound each attack that hits you. And that's before we get into all the other ways you can get temporary hit points:
Inspiring Leader = thp every SR
Storm Herald Barb = thp every round
Heroism = thp every round
Twilight Cleric = thp every round
Dream Druid = thp as a BA
Glamour Bard = thp as a BA
Yes. It is my intent for it to synergize well with other features and abilities in the game which award temp HP. Yes, I am aware Warlocks get invocations and spells that award temp HP that scale well. Thats all by design. I understand that that may mean these abilities need to be dialed back, this is just the first iteration to get the idea out there and get feedback.
My main goal is for each option to not just give a fun bonus to mundane temp HP, but to hopefully scale well so at encourage the player to invest in using invocations, spells, and feats to keep their temp HP up. If anyone has ideas, please share them
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Alrighty. I know I said I would get around to this sooner, but life happened at me. I did promise I would get to it though, so here I am. I should have my thoughts and suggestions to you sometime this weekend hopefully.
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Awesome. Thanks!
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
Sorry, but now I'm confused. You think it isn't very powerful b/c thp is hard to come by, but thp isn't hard to come by so it is very powerful, but that's a good thing because you want it to be so powerful the player feels like they have to build their entire character around it so they can keep it up all the time?
This is the main one that is super exploitable, no-concentration 1-round paralysis that can interrupt an enemy's turn. If you have a Twilight Cleric, a Glamour Bard in the party this is going to be available & triggering every round of combat from 5th level onwards (8th level onwards if the best you can do is have someone cast Heroism on you). Then they need only pick up Eldritch Smite + Pact of the Blade to deal: 2d8+4+8d8 damage with a critical hit on that paralyzed foe twice every SR.
TBH, you basically have to build this character as 5-Glamour-Bard + 5-This-Warlock, or your basically shooting yourself in the foot.
I dont think that THP is hard to come by, just that it is hard to get alot of it at once, by the nature that it does not stack. Armor of Agathys starts out at 5 temp HP at level one and then maxes out at 25 using your 5th level slot. Yes, you can have 10+ temporary hit points using upcast False Life or Armor of Agathys, but it means dedicating a Warlock spell slot to giving yourself temp HP, which is what I am hoping this would encourage. The patron is the Undying, so I want to encourage the warlock to take steps to proactively avoid death (while still trying to keep the abilities distinctly different from "undeath" and the Undead patron).
A few things to consider:
Im confused, a Glamour Bard only grants 8 temp HP and Veil of the Lich specifically requires you to lose 10 temporary hit points for a chance of paralysis to occur. The glamour bard would need to be at least 11th level to grant more than 10 temporary hit points with each use.
Twilight Cleric would certainly be a potent combo, but thats because Twilight Sanctuary is so strong. I do not want an existing very powerful ability to discourage from exploring interesting new mechanics. Regardless, for Twilight Sanctuary to guarantee at least 10 temporary hit points every round, the Cleric would have to be level 9 and the cleric has to be at least level 4 for it to have a chance of awarding 10 HP, so it wont be a combo granting a chance of paralysis at level 1.
There may be some changes I can make to dial it in, but I dont think the ability needs to be thrown out altogether. I could see increasing the threshold from 10 to 15 or maybe replacing paralysis with a different debuff (I started with that one because I was drawing inspiration from the lich stat block, as it is a popular Undying patron type). What change could I make that would make this ability feel more fair?
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You're proposed feature also causes you to gain +CHA to all thp you gain which means 8 thp becomes 11-13 thp. Similarly once your cleric or bard gets a +5 spellcasting ability modifier Heroism grants +5 thp every round, to which you add another +5 from your CHA = 10 thp every round. Twilight Cleric gives thp = 1d6+level which means at level 5 that's 1d6+5+CHA which is guaranteed to be at least 10. Similarly, False Life give 1d4+4 which once you get +5 CHA is guaranteed to be at least 10.
Okay, so…. Being as I was not particularly familiar with the Way of the Ascendant Dragon, I figured I would first reread the official subclass to refresh my memory and see what I thought needed to be fixed about it.
I was about halfway through it (just past the 6th level feature) and had a total of 4 ideas on what I would change. I had come up with 2 really minor adjustments I would make (1s on a 1-5 scale), a fairly minor adjustment (2 on a 1-5), and 1 fairly significant change (4½ on a 1-5). By the time I finished reading through the subclass I was up to 3 “really minor” adjustments, still only the 1 “fairly minor” adjustment, and 1 new “moderate adjustment” (3 on the 1-5), but that’s it. (They had already addressed the “significant change” I would have made, just in a way I personally think was kinda clumsy.*👇)
So then I went and checked out your proposed version of the subclass and it gives me absolutely no pleasure to inform you that I would rather play the official version. It’s better written, better balanced, and has far more flavor. Your subclass is simultaneously too powerful and too resource expensive, and it has none of the interesting flavor and feel of the official version. You dropped all the stuff that makes the WotC version seem fun and interesting, focused entirely on combat related features, made them all too powerful, and than slapped Ki costs on them that are so high I would never use them.
While you may be very happy with your subclass and think it’s great and fun to play, I personally have to disagree. I’m sorry. I’m sure you were hoping for a more positive review, and I really wish I could give it to you, truly I do. Unfortunately I cannot.
*👉 The significant change I was thinking of was basically identical to what they included as Augment Breath. Except they added it as a subfeature under Ascendant Aspect instead of including it as part of the basic Breath of the Dragon feature as I would have done. I have a good idea why they did it that way. I personally don’t agree with it, but I can understand it.
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Ahhhhh. Of course. Good point. This discussion has shown me that giving the Warlock a flat bonus to how many temp HP they get probably isnt necessary. Removing that should make the abilities you mentioned less exploitable, but just to be safe I will bump the threshold of the Veil of the Lich up from 10 to 15, and we can take it from there.
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Meh, fine. It's among my first homebrews anyway.
I make homebrew subclasses, usually fixes of existing ones.
Way of the Ascendant Dragon but better: https://www.dndbeyond.com/homebrew/subclasses?filter-name=&filter-author=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-previous=KyrneGnomeBarbarian&filter-author-symbol=118590905&filter-rating=-40
I'm a social pessimist.
That’s fair. (You should see some of my earliest stuff. 🙄 **woofta** It was baaaaaad….) Lemme ask you a few sincere question please.
Whenever I feel a desire to make a “FIFY” version of something WotC wrote, it’s because of two facts: 1) I want to like the subclass, or spieces, etc., and 2) there’s something about it that makes me not like it. So the first thing I do is determine what it is I want to like, what it is I don’t, and why I like or dislike those things.
With those pieces of info it helps me plan out fix, kinda like a roadmap with the stops all marked out, or a shopping list with everything all arranged at least roughly in the order in which I’ll come across them in the store. If the list is in a different order (alphabetical, stream of consciousness, etc.) I’ll still end up getting just about everything on the list, but I’ll be going all over the store crisscrossing my own steps so it takes much longer and I inevitably miss one or two things.
I’m not saying that you or anyone else should or shouldn’t do it this way or any other, just explaining how I do it. But it’ll help my understanding of things.
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Yeah, I think the flat bonus to all thp is what really make it exploitable since there are so many ways to get a little bit of thp very frequently, any flat bonus can have quite disproportionate effects. thp was really designed around the fact that it doesn't stack.
If anyone is interested, with the release of the 2024 PHB I have been toying around with some of these subclasses further (specifically those from the SCAG). https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/205724-scag-2024
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