I like alot of the changes for the second version and appreciate the inclusion of some of my suggested disciplines. I also think that Disciplinary Evolution is an extremely cool ability in how it modifies those cantrips to make them more powerful.
My only suggestion for a change would maybe be to Ki Up. I think it would be better as a 1/long rest ability that gives back a significant amount of ki (like half monk level or even restoring all lost ki points with maybe a longer activation time). As it is right now, while it is limited to restoring lost ki points and requires an action it feels like it will effectively be giving this version of the monk 1.33333333 x monk level ki points at all times since the ability recharges at the same time their ki points do
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Really cool disciplines! Just a few suggestions...
Disciple of the Elements - there's some nasty space in front of the title. Also, a comma is not enough to separate "shape water" and the rest of the sentence
Breath's Last Gasp - could be changed to simply Last Gasp and "immediacy" should be changed
Earthen Sight - "To" should be lowercase
Flickerflame - "forth" should be changed
Grounded Strike - Strength saving throw makes more sense than a Dexterity saving throw in this case
Leaping Flame - it really has nothing to do with fire. Maybe it could be changed to earth and allow you to deal damage in a shockwave when you hit the ground, half of whatever you reduce with Slow Fall perhaps
Like Water Through Fingers - very wordy, maybe it should just be Fluid Evasion or Slippery Escape or something
Salamander's Fury - might want to change the damage to a Martial Arts Die, to fit with the rest of the features
Ki Up - feels too simple, just "+1/3 ki." Maybe allow gaining temporary ki points that last for a minute or round when taking (or avoiding) elemental damage
Disciplinary Evolution - "elemental cantrips" should be capitalized
Elemental Form - use a semicolon instead of comma after "water" and include "action" after "Attack."
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Okay, as per both of your suggestions I changed Ki Up. It is now 1/2 Monk Level 1ce/LR.
Quar1on, I want to thank you for the editing pass, it is much appreciated. I also took most of your suggestions save for one:
I can’t make Leaping Flame earth based because it would throw the balance of the four elements off. It has to stay fire based, and it has to be a movement Discipline of some sort. The only options available are climbing, or teleportation. I started with teleporting, but didn’t like it and then remembered climbing speeds are a thing and instantly thought of flames climbing up a wall in a house fire, hence how that Discipline got written. If you have any further suggestions on cow to make it a fire based movement Discipline I’m all ears (eyes, whatever).
If you want to keep it as a climbing speed, I really dont know what to add. It feels like by 11th level a climbing speed isnt really something a monk needs because they already have the ability to run along surfaces.
As an alternative suggestion, thinking of the name Leaping Flame though, maybe it could be linked to Jump distances instead. Like, spend X ki point and for Y amount of time you can determine your jump distance using Wisdom score (or maybe Dexterity) instead of Strength. Additionally, once per turn when you jump as part of your movement, each creature within 5 feet of the space you land in must make a Dex save or take fire damage equal to the number of feet moved (or maybe something tied to your Martial Arts Die, idk).
Its a wonky idea, but plays off of the fact that monks already get improved jump distance with Step of the Wind and allows them to potentially bypass a weak Str score. The fire damage is building a little off of Quar1on's "shockwave" idea, but interpreting it more like a fiery burst that is built up as you sail through the air. Im envisioning something along the lines of a superhero landing, like Thor but with fire instead of lightning
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If you want to keep it as a climbing speed, I really dont know what to add. It feels like by 11th level a climbing speed isnt really something a monk needs because they already have the ability to run along surfaces.
As an alternative suggestion, thinking of the name Leaping Flame though, maybe it could be linked to Jump distances instead. Like, spend X ki point and for Y amount of time you can determine your jump distance using Wisdom score (or maybe Dexterity) instead of Strength. Additionally, once per turn when you jump as part of your movement, each creature within 5 feet of the space you land in must make a Dex save or take fire damage equal to the number of feet moved (or maybe something tied to your Martial Arts Die, idk).
Its a wonky idea, but plays off of the fact that monks already get improved jump distance with Step of the Wind and allows them to potentially bypass a weak Str score. The fire damage is building a little off of Quar1on's "shockwave" idea, but interpreting it more like a fiery burst that is built up as you sail through the air. Im envisioning something along the lines of a superhero landing, like Thor but with fire instead of lightning
I like this idea! I would also add that it could be done as part of Step of the Wind.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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That’s not a terrible idea. Thanks. I’ll have to rework the other movement ones a little to maintain the balance, but it’s doable. I’ll rattle it around a little and see what pops out.
Oh, also, something just doesn't sound right about Leaping Flame to me. Maybe Spreading Flame or Dancing Flame or Kindle Swap or something.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Oh, also, something just doesn't sound right about Leaping Flame to me. Maybe Spreading Flame or Dancing Flame or Kindle Swap or something.
If Sposta goes the route of tying the movement to Jumping then I think Leaping Flame is a more apt description.
Kindle Swap does give me another idea for fire-based movement ability. Make it mechanically similar to the Way of Shadow monk's shadowstep ability, but have it depend on simply touching an area of flame rather than being inside dim light. This would be situational for sure, but if we imagine them working through dungeons filled with torches or using other EDs that produce continuous burning effects, this could make for a reliable teleport ability.
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Leaping Flame. As an action you can spend 2 ki, until the end of your turn whenever you make a high or long jump roll your Martial Arts die and extend the distance of the jump up to a number of feet equal to the number rolled plus your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 extra foot). This extra distance costs you only 1 foot of movement.
I *ahem* “drew inspiration from” the UA Psi Knight’s Psi-Powered Leap.
Leaping Flame. As an action you can spend 2 ki, until the end of your turn whenever you make a high or long jump roll your Martial Arts die and extend the distance of the jump up to a number of feet equal to the number rolled plus your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 extra foot). This extra distance costs you only 1 foot of movement.
I *ahem* “drew inspiration from” the UA Psi Knight’s Psi-Powered Leap.
Its not bad, but there is still nothing that really ties it to flame. Also, spending 2 ki point and a full action just to extend your jump distance feels kinda bad, especially since you could already double your jump distance as a bonus action for 1 ki. Granted, you can use Leaping Flame and Step of the Wind together for a huge jump distance, but at the end of the day how much extra jump you get is ultimately capped by your movement speed. On that note, how would Leaping Flame interact with Step of the Wind? Would you jump distance be doubled before or after you add the extra distance from leaping flame?
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Leaping Flame. As an action you can spend 2 ki, until the end of your turn whenever you make a high or long jump roll your Martial Arts die and extend the distance of the jump up to a number of feet equal to the number rolled plus your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 extra foot). This extra distance costs you only 1 foot of movement.
I *ahem* “drew inspiration from” the UA Psi Knight’s Psi-Powered Leap.
Its not bad, but there is still nothing that really ties it to flame. Also, spending 2 ki point and a full action just to extend your jump distance feels kinda bad, especially since you could already double your jump distance as a bonus action for 1 ki. Granted, you can use Leaping Flame and Step of the Wind together for a huge jump distance, but at the end of the day how much extra jump you get is ultimately capped by your movement speed. On that note, how would Leaping Flame interact with Step of the Wind? Would you jump distance be doubled before or after you add the extra distance from leaping flame?
Those are good points. Hmm…. I’m trying to keep it balanced with the Earthmover, Waterwings, and Windwalker disciplines. That’s why it costs 2 ki and why it deals no damage. I suppose I could extend the duration to help make it more worthwhile. My concern is that there are no restrictions on how many times you can jump in a turn (that I know of), so there’s nothing to prevent a PC from jumping 1 foot + X (where X is the bonus from this Discipline), and then continuing to skip along like that 14 more times in the same turn with the rest of their 30 feet of movement. I could see that being very abusable. As to the order of operations regarding Step of the Wind, in math you always multiply before you add.
Leaping Flame. As an action you can spend 2 ki, until the end of your turn whenever you make a high or long jump roll your Martial Arts die and extend the distance of the jump up to a number of feet equal to the number rolled plus your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 extra foot). This extra distance costs you only 1 foot of movement.
I *ahem* “drew inspiration from” the UA Psi Knight’s Psi-Powered Leap.
Its not bad, but there is still nothing that really ties it to flame. Also, spending 2 ki point and a full action just to extend your jump distance feels kinda bad, especially since you could already double your jump distance as a bonus action for 1 ki. Granted, you can use Leaping Flame and Step of the Wind together for a huge jump distance, but at the end of the day how much extra jump you get is ultimately capped by your movement speed. On that note, how would Leaping Flame interact with Step of the Wind? Would you jump distance be doubled before or after you add the extra distance from leaping flame?
Those are good points. Hmm…. I’m trying to keep it balanced with the Earthmover, Waterwings, and Windwalker disciplines. That’s why it costs 2 ki and why it deals no damage. I suppose I could extend the duration to help make it more worthwhile. My concern is that there are no restrictions on how many times you can jump in a turn (that I know of), so there’s nothing to prevent a PC from jumping 1 foot + X (where X is the bonus from this Discipline), and then continuing to skip along like that 14 more times in the same turn with the rest of their 30 feet of movement.
That raises the question, does the bonus to jump distance from the ED still count against your movement? Whenever you jump you still have to subtract the distance moved from your overall speed IIRC, so that would be your limiter
As to the order of operations regarding Step of the Wind, in math you always multiply before you add.
..unless your addition is in parentheses, which is kind of how I was envisioning it [i.e. in my mind, if X is your original jump distance I was trying to determine if it was 2X+Die or 2(X+Die)]. I think either way it could use some clarification in the language. Since this ED uses your action and Step of the Wind is a bonus action, I could see a player thinking that if they use Step of the Wind after the ED on their turn that it translates to be a 2(X+Die) bonus rather than the intended 2X+Die.
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The ED specifies that the additional jump distance only costs 1 additional foot of movement. So for 2 feet of movement (without SotW) you jump 1+X feet where X is anywhere from 1-15, 1 if you roll a 1 and your Wisdom is 11 or lower, and 15 if you roll max on a d10 with a Wis of 20 (16 if you read the right book). So on average X will likely be around 8-9ish most of the time.
I was envisioning it as 2X+, not 2(X+). I can definitely see where the confusion might come in though, and can absolutely clarify that whichever way we decide works best.
The ED specifies that the additional jump distance only costs 1 additional foot of movement. So for 2 feet of movement (without SotW) you jump 1+X feet where X is anywhere from 1-15, 1 if you roll a 1 and your Wisdom is 11 or lower, and 15 if you roll max on a d10 with a Wis of 20 (16 if you read the right book). So on average X will likely be around 8-9ish most of the time.
I see, I must have missed that on my initial read through
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I dont think so, but Ill try to find some time to formally look back over the jump/distance mechanics so I can give the ED its due diligence. Chances are its fine though
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What if I limited it to a once per turn jump that lasted 10 minutes and made it 2(X+). That would limit it enough to keep it balanced, but allow it to interact with SotW. Wadaya think?
What if I limited it to a once per turn jump that lasted 10 minutes and made it 2(X+). That would limit it enough to keep it balanced, but allow it to interact with SotW. Wadaya think?
That could work.
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Leap Like Flame. As an action you can spend 2 ki and for the next 10 minutes, whenever you make a high or long jump you can roll your Martial Arts die and extend the distance of the jump up to a number of feet equal to the number rolled plus your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 extra foot). This extra distance costs you only 1 foot of movement. You can use this special jump once on each of your turns. This extra jump distance is doubled whenever you use Step of the Wind.
I like alot of the changes for the second version and appreciate the inclusion of some of my suggested disciplines. I also think that Disciplinary Evolution is an extremely cool ability in how it modifies those cantrips to make them more powerful.
My only suggestion for a change would maybe be to Ki Up. I think it would be better as a 1/long rest ability that gives back a significant amount of ki (like half monk level or even restoring all lost ki points with maybe a longer activation time). As it is right now, while it is limited to restoring lost ki points and requires an action it feels like it will effectively be giving this version of the monk 1.33333333 x monk level ki points at all times since the ability recharges at the same time their ki points do
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Really cool disciplines! Just a few suggestions...
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Okay, as per both of your suggestions I changed Ki Up. It is now 1/2 Monk Level 1ce/LR.
Quar1on, I want to thank you for the editing pass, it is much appreciated. I also took most of your suggestions save for one:
I can’t make Leaping Flame earth based because it would throw the balance of the four elements off. It has to stay fire based, and it has to be a movement Discipline of some sort. The only options available are climbing, or teleportation. I started with teleporting, but didn’t like it and then remembered climbing speeds are a thing and instantly thought of flames climbing up a wall in a house fire, hence how that Discipline got written. If you have any further suggestions on cow to make it a fire based movement Discipline I’m all ears (eyes, whatever).
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Either of you have any suggestions?
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If you want to keep it as a climbing speed, I really dont know what to add. It feels like by 11th level a climbing speed isnt really something a monk needs because they already have the ability to run along surfaces.
As an alternative suggestion, thinking of the name Leaping Flame though, maybe it could be linked to Jump distances instead. Like, spend X ki point and for Y amount of time you can determine your jump distance using Wisdom score (or maybe Dexterity) instead of Strength. Additionally, once per turn when you jump as part of your movement, each creature within 5 feet of the space you land in must make a Dex save or take fire damage equal to the number of feet moved (or maybe something tied to your Martial Arts Die, idk).
Its a wonky idea, but plays off of the fact that monks already get improved jump distance with Step of the Wind and allows them to potentially bypass a weak Str score. The fire damage is building a little off of Quar1on's "shockwave" idea, but interpreting it more like a fiery burst that is built up as you sail through the air. Im envisioning something along the lines of a superhero landing, like Thor but with fire instead of lightning
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I like this idea! I would also add that it could be done as part of Step of the Wind.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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That’s not a terrible idea. Thanks. I’ll have to rework the other movement ones a little to maintain the balance, but it’s doable. I’ll rattle it around a little and see what pops out.
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Oh, also, something just doesn't sound right about Leaping Flame to me. Maybe Spreading Flame or Dancing Flame or Kindle Swap or something.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
If Sposta goes the route of tying the movement to Jumping then I think Leaping Flame is a more apt description.
Kindle Swap does give me another idea for fire-based movement ability. Make it mechanically similar to the Way of Shadow monk's shadowstep ability, but have it depend on simply touching an area of flame rather than being inside dim light. This would be situational for sure, but if we imagine them working through dungeons filled with torches or using other EDs that produce continuous burning effects, this could make for a reliable teleport ability.
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What about this for Leaping Flame?
I *ahem* “drew inspiration from” the UA Psi Knight’s Psi-Powered Leap.
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Its not bad, but there is still nothing that really ties it to flame. Also, spending 2 ki point and a full action just to extend your jump distance feels kinda bad, especially since you could already double your jump distance as a bonus action for 1 ki. Granted, you can use Leaping Flame and Step of the Wind together for a huge jump distance, but at the end of the day how much extra jump you get is ultimately capped by your movement speed. On that note, how would Leaping Flame interact with Step of the Wind? Would you jump distance be doubled before or after you add the extra distance from leaping flame?
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Those are good points. Hmm…. I’m trying to keep it balanced with the Earthmover, Waterwings, and Windwalker disciplines. That’s why it costs 2 ki and why it deals no damage. I suppose I could extend the duration to help make it more worthwhile. My concern is that there are no restrictions on how many times you can jump in a turn (that I know of), so there’s nothing to prevent a PC from jumping 1 foot + X (where X is the bonus from this Discipline), and then continuing to skip along like that 14 more times in the same turn with the rest of their 30 feet of movement. I could see that being very abusable. As to the order of operations regarding Step of the Wind, in math you always multiply before you add.
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That raises the question, does the bonus to jump distance from the ED still count against your movement? Whenever you jump you still have to subtract the distance moved from your overall speed IIRC, so that would be your limiter
..unless your addition is in parentheses, which is kind of how I was envisioning it [i.e. in my mind, if X is your original jump distance I was trying to determine if it was 2X+Die or 2(X+Die)]. I think either way it could use some clarification in the language. Since this ED uses your action and Step of the Wind is a bonus action, I could see a player thinking that if they use Step of the Wind after the ED on their turn that it translates to be a 2(X+Die) bonus rather than the intended 2X+Die.
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The ED specifies that the additional jump distance only costs 1 additional foot of movement. So for 2 feet of movement (without SotW) you jump 1+X feet where X is anywhere from 1-15, 1 if you roll a 1 and your Wisdom is 11 or lower, and 15 if you roll max on a d10 with a Wis of 20 (16 if you read the right book). So on average X will likely be around 8-9ish most of the time.
I was envisioning it as 2X+, not 2(X+). I can definitely see where the confusion might come in though, and can absolutely clarify that whichever way we decide works best.
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I see, I must have missed that on my initial read through
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I can change it though if it’s a problem.
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I dont think so, but Ill try to find some time to formally look back over the jump/distance mechanics so I can give the ED its due diligence. Chances are its fine though
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What if I limited it to a once per turn jump that lasted 10 minutes and made it 2(X+). That would limit it enough to keep it balanced, but allow it to interact with SotW. Wadaya think?
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That could work.
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How’s this?
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