Do you guys think there would be any good way to incorporate legendary actions into some sort of homebrew or variant in a campaign setting? It definitely would be interesting for high power characters, but I feel like there are quite a few flaws with it how it is.
Generally, Legendary actions are given to exceedingly strong monsters, giving them an extra edge in combat by letting them act outside of turn order. It's, as many of the articles on monster's here suggest, much better used as a DM tool to make combat much more interesting by reacting to things as they happen, possibly ruining the players plans that would've otherwise made your BBEG nothing more than a vicious loot monkey. So, when put in the hands of the players, it should naturally give them that same edge, and can make combat more engaging too, right? Well, maybe, but there are doing more isn't always going to translate into smooth combat. Think of it this way: Players can do more things during combat, rather than sitting and waiting for their turn, but at the same timeEvery player can do more. This can make combat be over before it begins, or worse, make it take FOREVER. Also, if players can have legendary actions, then pretty much everyone would need them as well, because that one player sitting around while everyone is doing stuff is going to be dead before it's their turn. And considering they get all of their uses back at the start of their turn...yeah as is isn't very good unless you want really intricate and powerful combat encounters.
Here are some of my ideas: Similar but different: You could Just incorporate the "at the end of another creatures turn" into different abilities with a one time/ limited use, though that sort of avoids the problem entirely. Making legendary actions too limited will, in my mind, ruin the point of having them in the first place, either being used to soon or be saved until they are important, or making your players focus on resting before anything because of how powerful they are. Short, simple and to the point: A Legendary action is Legendary only by the fact that it can bend the rules, not because they let the user make powerful attacks. Even the monsters with these actions don't have anything more complex than saving throw and effect,or a very simple spell. Here, are some rules of thumb: 1. An attack, not an attack action. Beware rouges, sharpshooters, and great weapon masters. 2. A chosen spell, probably a cantrip, but not any spell 3. No healing. 4. If the player moves, they can only move. 5. There might need to be some errata on held actions. If you can hold an action until you get close enough and move, you can basically take your turn whenever you want. My fix is you can only use your held action in response to another creature or event, so it's not when you get close enough, it's when the enemy moves. Although, it's probably quite easy to get around this, so it's up to the DM, especially since monsters could do the same thing. One and Done: Letting the players have more than one legendary action doesn't sit right, as it would essentially give them an extra round in combat. I would consider every player having one point to be just enough from getting too powerful. Although, I do have another idea. Banked Over Time: As the battle draws on, the characters will know their enemies better and plan ahead. Each player starts with 0, but at the end of each round of combat, each player gets a legendary action.
The whole point of legendary actions is to allow a single monster to compete with the action economy of a whole group of PCs. There's no good reason to give PCs legendary actions unless you've set up a situation where one (and only one) PC is fighting multiple powerful monsters.
"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
A lot of characters kind of have Legendary actions. Abilities that use reactions.
Monsters (unless they have pc class levels) don't really get to act off turn without Legendary Actions. The reason they get multiple actions is to allow them to compete with a group of PCs who each have an Action, a Bonus Action and a Reaction.
I really like the way VillainTheory built his Hero subclass. It has 1 legendary action but has no attack option.
Hey, the link is down and I really want to read about this Hero subclass. Where can I read it?
Go to collections, and mouseover, on the right side of the tab that opens, you'll see Homebrew. Click on Browse Subclass and search Hero. It's the one with the most views/likes.
The whole point of legendary actions is to allow a single monster to compete with the action economy of a whole group of PCs. There's no good reason to give PCs legendary actions unless you've set up a situation where one (and only one) PC is fighting multiple powerful monsters.
This. You seriously don't want to tamper with PC action economy like that. You risk seriously nerfing class features that allow extra options for reactions or bonus actions. Even in the case you mentioned in which you'd allow a cantrip or single attacks, you'd be pushing balance in favor of spellcasters (whose cantrips are meant to compete with multiple extra attacks at higher levels).
If done right i think that it would be a great idea for legendary hero's in your world. maybe only above lvl 15 or even 18 and only give them 1 Legendary action as a start and as they reach level 20 maybe another or as a epic boon (optional rules)
I would like to give my twice sense on this real quick on how to make them for players : I Divided them into two categories for simplification
Melee Characters can make one extra attack(not action) for 1 Legendary action(Remember Legendary action can only be taken after a monsters turn)
Spellcasters can use a spell for 1 Legendary Action (Remember how spells work with Casting one leveled spell as a bonus action and if you try to use a spell as a regular action on the same turn it can only be a cantrip, I would keep that rule for Legendary actions but for the whole round)
I believe you already can give players legendary actions, in the MM there is a column about pc vampires. I believe since you get legendary resistances you should also get legendary actions
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Do you guys think there would be any good way to incorporate legendary actions into some sort of homebrew or variant in a campaign setting? It definitely would be interesting for high power characters, but I feel like there are quite a few flaws with it how it is.
Generally, Legendary actions are given to exceedingly strong monsters, giving them an extra edge in combat by letting them act outside of turn order. It's, as many of the articles on monster's here suggest, much better used as a DM tool to make combat much more interesting by reacting to things as they happen, possibly ruining the players plans that would've otherwise made your BBEG nothing more than a vicious loot monkey. So, when put in the hands of the players, it should naturally give them that same edge, and can make combat more engaging too, right? Well, maybe, but there are doing more isn't always going to translate into smooth combat. Think of it this way: Players can do more things during combat, rather than sitting and waiting for their turn, but at the same time Every player can do more. This can make combat be over before it begins, or worse, make it take FOREVER. Also, if players can have legendary actions, then pretty much everyone would need them as well, because that one player sitting around while everyone is doing stuff is going to be dead before it's their turn. And considering they get all of their uses back at the start of their turn...yeah as is isn't very good unless you want really intricate and powerful combat encounters.
Here are some of my ideas: Similar but different: You could Just incorporate the "at the end of another creatures turn" into different abilities with a one time/ limited use, though that sort of avoids the problem entirely. Making legendary actions too limited will, in my mind, ruin the point of having them in the first place, either being used to soon or be saved until they are important, or making your players focus on resting before anything because of how powerful they are. Short, simple and to the point: A Legendary action is Legendary only by the fact that it can bend the rules, not because they let the user make powerful attacks. Even the monsters with these actions don't have anything more complex than saving throw and effect,or a very simple spell. Here, are some rules of thumb: 1. An attack, not an attack action. Beware rouges, sharpshooters, and great weapon masters. 2. A chosen spell, probably a cantrip, but not any spell 3. No healing. 4. If the player moves, they can only move. 5. There might need to be some errata on held actions. If you can hold an action until you get close enough and move, you can basically take your turn whenever you want. My fix is you can only use your held action in response to another creature or event, so it's not when you get close enough, it's when the enemy moves. Although, it's probably quite easy to get around this, so it's up to the DM, especially since monsters could do the same thing. One and Done: Letting the players have more than one legendary action doesn't sit right, as it would essentially give them an extra round in combat. I would consider every player having one point to be just enough from getting too powerful. Although, I do have another idea. Banked Over Time: As the battle draws on, the characters will know their enemies better and plan ahead. Each player starts with 0, but at the end of each round of combat, each player gets a legendary action.
What are your ideas? Any suggestions?
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The whole point of legendary actions is to allow a single monster to compete with the action economy of a whole group of PCs. There's no good reason to give PCs legendary actions unless you've set up a situation where one (and only one) PC is fighting multiple powerful monsters.
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I really like the way VillainTheory built his Hero subclass. It has 1 legendary action but has no attack option.
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"The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchett
Legendary actions are stupid. If a DM can do it, a player can do it. And vice versa.
A lot of characters kind of have Legendary actions. Abilities that use reactions.
Monsters (unless they have pc class levels) don't really get to act off turn without Legendary Actions. The reason they get multiple actions is to allow them to compete with a group of PCs who each have an Action, a Bonus Action and a Reaction.
My DM's Guild Content - Mostly quick rules and guides.
Hey, the link is down and I really want to read about this Hero subclass. Where can I read it?
Go to collections, and mouseover, on the right side of the tab that opens, you'll see Homebrew. Click on Browse Subclass and search Hero. It's the one with the most views/likes.
DM for Tower of Heaven
Posting Speed:
Full Response WeeklyI ExistInfo and other stuff: https://www.patreon.com/PPDND?fan_landing=true (Nothing here? I Need a better place to put this)
This. You seriously don't want to tamper with PC action economy like that. You risk seriously nerfing class features that allow extra options for reactions or bonus actions. Even in the case you mentioned in which you'd allow a cantrip or single attacks, you'd be pushing balance in favor of spellcasters (whose cantrips are meant to compete with multiple extra attacks at higher levels).
If done right i think that it would be a great idea for legendary hero's in your world. maybe only above lvl 15 or even 18 and only give them 1 Legendary action as a start and as they reach level 20 maybe another or as a epic boon (optional rules)
I would like to give my twice sense on this real quick on how to make them for players : I Divided them into two categories for simplification
Melee Characters can make one extra attack(not action) for 1 Legendary action(Remember Legendary action can only be taken after a monsters turn)
Spellcasters can use a spell for 1 Legendary Action (Remember how spells work with Casting one leveled spell as a bonus action and if you try to use a spell as a regular action on the same turn it can only be a cantrip, I would keep that rule for Legendary actions but for the whole round)
This is just at the top of my head for balance.
I believe you already can give players legendary actions, in the MM there is a column about pc vampires. I believe since you get legendary resistances you should also get legendary actions