I've created and posted 2 homebrew monsters and 2 homebrew magic items. Each revolving around the "main" monster.
It's been over 10 years since the last real DnD game I've played. And over 30 years since I've DM'd. I've only recently gotten my interest in DnD reignited. Mostly thanks to the 50th stuff. Venger in particular. I would really like honest opinions about what I've created and posted.
I was inspired by 2 things. With the 50th anniversary Vecna has returned. An NPC I never got the chance to play or play against. As DM or PC. And the Wild Beyond the Witchlight. More specifically the Harengon. Images of Usagi Yojimbo danced in my head.
The main monster's name is Vecnagon. Before all the "ouches" and "oh no's" please check it out. Read it first. I would truly appreciate honest practical opinions. Please.
The other monster(s) and both magical items contain the same name: Vecnagon. A side note. I understand what CR's are and represent. But I may not have gotten it right. Like I said honest practical opinions. Another note.I make an homage to the first appearance of Vecna's name in DnD in Vecnagon's description. See if you can figure it out. I also kept the fairies 3's and 8's mixed in as much as possible.
Thanks to all those who help me out. And Happy and Safe Holidays.
You'll need to share the link to the monster if you want us to look it over.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I don't know if I did that correctly. But all you have to do is type Vecnagon in the name search of the homebrew monster page. Do the same for the homebrew magic items page. Apologies I am not tech savy ... at all. I'm surprised I know how to use the forum. x-p
Unfortunately I am unable to playtest it, which is one of the reasons I'm looking for opinions. And it's not based on a video game boss. Which is why I asked that it be read first before the "ouches" and "oh no's". I do hope the links work for you.
Again thanks now for those who help me out. And Happy and Safe Holidays.
Forewarning. I'm a bit wordy. I can't help but go into the details.
These are very much ranked too low. CR 1/8 means a lvl 1 character can solo two of them. CR 1 means a party of 4 lvl 1 characters can handle one of them. Supposedly.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Looking at it, they're largely in line with 1/8. They have a slightly higher AC and half the HP of a Animated Knife - they've have a powerful Resistance set, but that just brings them up to par. The thing that concerns me is that DC15 check to not become a zombie. That's incredibly punishing - usually, something that harsh is reserved for much later levels (like, towards the teens). I'd drop the DC by a lot, because the CR will be broken otherwise - if you keep the DC and CR, the party will become zombies if they fight a dozen of these, which is how the encounter would be constructed. If you keep the DC but increase the CR, then the fight will be way too easy.
Personally, I'd drop the DC on that check.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
First, a review of the Vecnagon Zombie chickens. Cute and possibly horrifying. Good job on capturing the flavor.
Re: stats and CR
I agree with Linklite that they should be a higher CR, probably closer to CR 1 since what they are resistant to is the most common damage type and they can inflict the Poisoned status. Their ability to escape non-magical restrain abilities is also part of the factoring in, though I admit that since I am not yet caught up on the new PC grappling rules, I'm uncertain how much that ability would impact the fight. Creatures less than CR 1 seem to follow the pattern of NOT inflicting the Poisoned condition even if they do poison damage.
Surprised that Zombie Chickens have an Intelligence of 8. That's...really high for both chickens and zombies. The "standard" humanoid Zombie has an INT of 3. Though I guess this only comes into play if the PCs throw illusion spells or spam Mind Sliver/Whip at them.
For simpliicity's sake and to match the actual danger of a creature that can permanently turn another creature into a zombie (see my thoughts on the CR above), I would advise increasing the hit point total for the Zombie Chickens and to treat them as a Swarm, using Swarm rules. See the Swarm of Rats, for instance, which have a lot more hit points than a standard D&D rat and only can attack creatures in their same space. Designating 3, 4, or 5 chickens seems unnecessarily complicated.
Also, this wasn't mentioned in the Vecnagon Zombie Chicken description: the creature (possibly a PC) turned into a Zombie...would they have the same stats as a standard humanoid Zombie? Or would they be potentially much more powerful?
I thought the links I had worked giving you the choice of which to to look at, but I'll try again. I hope the following makes it easier. And I hope I did right. Well here you go.
Link, SoB (sorry couldn't resist) thank you both for your response and constructive criticism. I figured the chickens would grab the most attention. x-p . Again, been a LONG time since I've played and 5e is somewhat unfamiliar to me, even with having the most recent books. For me it's like starting from scratch.
Linklite. From my personal understanding I thought DC 15 was "low-ish." But I can be and most likely am totally wrong about that. The whole idea of the "curse/infection" is to be "punishing." But not debilitating to gameplay. I don't really want to get rid of the DC but am MORE than willing to lower it. What number would you think would fit best. Just hate that I can't edit what I posted and have to post a whole new "version" of it. Especially for just one or two changes....ugh. Query. Does dropping the DC also mean dropping the Con Save? And if not what would be the player's target number for that?
Song of Blues. Have you ever tried to catch a chicken? And hold onto them if you succeeded in catching them? it's not an easy task. I personally never could. Not "dumb" enough now to try. As a really really young kid I did try. My mom's uncle got upset with me. I've also seen others try. It makes for great excercise. You have to really know what you're doing. Although it's a movie. Watch the original Rocky. It's pretty accurate. Although that was a very confined space, just imagine what it would be like in a more open space. The Zombie Flu is supposed to be a magically infused infection. I was trying to represent that in it's abilities and description. This illness is Vecnagon's zombie chickens signature. That more than anything is what's supposed to differentiate these creatures from others. I did my best to explain this in the 'character' description part of the creature(s) and trait description. I apologize if this comes across as combative. Text does not account for tone. I truly appreciate the feedback. All of it.
These aren't supposed to be your ordinary garden variety 'zombie chickens.' They're Vecnagon's special brand of zombie chickens. In general, humans tend to ignore or downplay the actual intelligence that chickens actually have. And when 'we' see them do something we consider intelligent, 'we' are surprised and amazed. Like watching a carnival act. We as a species apply this mentality to all non human creatures. In addition non human creature tend to be extremely more loyal to those they consider "their own." My 'thourght' on these guys is that they are also "infected" by the curse making them a different kind of zombie.
As per your points made. I think CR 1 would be too much for them. Even with their 'special' abilities. I was wondering if 1/8 was high enough but not 1. At least from how I see it. I saw and read the descriptions of 'swarm.' And honestly I still don't think it's a proper representation of how chickens work together or fight for that matter. Hens and roosters can be quite bloodthirsty in a fight. Especially if they are taught that. Illegal "rooster fights" ( i know that's not what they're called, but I believe filters will prevent the real name) are both bloody and deadly. When (although rare) chickens fight other creatures, it's more like a barroom brawl or mob (if there is enough of them) than a swarm. Even "helping" each other in the brrawl everyone is doing their own thing. Chickens literally throw themselves at whatever they're fighting. Usually that's a group/egg/chick preservation thing. But in this case it's a "what I raised you from the dead to do thing." And yes even though the 3/4/5 flock mechanic thing is more complicated (I did try my best to simplify and clarify it as much as possible) I think it better represents them. Even though they fight together they fight as individuals. I also think it makes them more challenging/different/interesting to fight against. That's how I see and understand it.
First paragraph, last sentence under Zombie Flu : ''If there is no 'master' around, then this new zombie wanders around like a 'normal' zombie.'' Apologies, I thought that was enough of a description for what happens to a creature turned zombie. Just standard zombie stats. If you read Vecnagon the Unending's description you would know he cares nothing for humanoid creatures and wouldn't give them any special "anythings." Perhaps I should have used the word 'standard' and not 'normal.' I think in terms more "story" than "rulebook." So my apologies for that misunderstanding.
I was actually inspired to create these guys from the April Fool's day event from Neverwinter Online. You face off against zombie chickens. For some reason I thought that was coolest thing. I guess you would consider them "standard" zombie chickens. So I guess, technically, D&D has zombie chickens. But not Vecnagon's Flock of Zombie Chickens.....not yet. =)
I was trying to think of a visual example of mob and swarm...zombie wise. I think I have it. Mob. Almost every zombie movie and tv show. Walking Dead, Day of the Dead (both versions), Resident Evil (people zombies). Swarm. World War Z, and that one episode of Z Nation with the giant rolling boulder made of zombies. Think snowball rolling down a hill concept, but with zombies instead of snow.
I warned you, I'm wordy. =) Thank you for taking the time. Happy Holidays.
The issue is that at CR 1/8, there'll be a lot of them fighting the party (to make up a decent size encounter. You'll be fighting these in T1 (so levels 1-4) and Con is usually either a secondary stat or a dump stat, so most characters will have +0, with a couple of characters having maybe +3. With +3 and a DC15, you've only got a 40% chance of succeeding. That's not necessarily too bad, but the consequences are severe - potentially it could essentially be a death sentence. When you've got lots of attacks (because it's statted for CR 1/8), that means that someone is practically guaranteed to fail.
A creature with a similar CR that has a Con Save to avoid a debilitating effect is the Diseased Giant Rat, which has a Con Save DC10 to avoid becoming diseased, where your Max HP reduces by 1d6 per day and you die at 0. That's easier to cure (more spells and potions are effective, you don't necessarily need magic). You so don't lose control of your character in the mean time.
With that in mind, I'd make it no higher than that, so DC10. Possibly lower - perhaps DC8 or even 7.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I understand what you've written. When I "made" them I was actually thinking of them fighting pc's of higher levels than 1-4. Which is why I made it DC 15. I understood that the CR represented the difficulty "level" of the monster. I really didn't consider the level of the players. At least not wholly. I was thinking in concepts of higher level 16-20 pc's. The idea was an unassuming non threatening in appearance monster that has a VERY dangerous bite. Kind of with the intention of making at least one person fail. Just to show/prove the threat of the monster(s).
If the group contains a cleric or paladin and a general healer/doctor, they would have what they need to cure the victim. And they have 3 days to cure them. Even if they become zombified. And part of the healing can come from spells or potions and such. it's simply a two part cure. Since there are no 'cure poison' spells of any kind, I had read somewhere that the magic healers, a.k.a. clerics/paladins/etc cure that "stuff" with their spells. One part of the cure more easily available than the other. But still attainable. I would think. This is where team play would come in.
Following your suggestion I would lean more towards 10. I like "even" numbers. Even though 9 and 12 screams out to me. If you didn't notice. Almost all the numbers used are divisibles or multiples of 3's and/or 8's. Keeping in tune with the fairy world thing. Hence the screaming 9 and 12. =)
I do appreciate the help with Vecnagon's zombie chickens. But I am curious of your take on Vecnagon himself. And what I did there. Again something that wouldn't appear to be as dangerous as it actually is.
Song of Blues. Have you ever tried to catch a chicken? And hold onto them if you succeeded in catching them? it's not an easy task. I personally never could. Not "dumb" enough now to try. As a really really young kid I did try. My mom's uncle got upset with me. I've also seen others try. It makes for great excercise. You have to really know what you're doing.
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These aren't supposed to be your ordinary garden variety 'zombie chickens.' They're Vecnagon's special brand of zombie chickens. In general, humans tend to ignore or downplay the actual intelligence that chickens actually have. And when 'we' see them do something we consider intelligent, 'we' are surprised and amazed. Like watching a carnival act. We as a species apply this mentality to all non human creatures. In addition non human creature tend to be extremely more loyal to those they consider "their own." My 'thourght' on these guys is that they are also "infected" by the curse making them a different kind of zombie.
As per your points made. I think CR 1 would be too much for them. Even with their 'special' abilities. I was wondering if 1/8 was high enough but not 1. At least from how I see it. I saw and read the descriptions of 'swarm.' And honestly I still don't think it's a proper representation of how chickens work together or fight for that matter. Hens and roosters can be quite bloodthirsty in a fight. Especially if they are taught that. Illegal "rooster fights" ( i know that's not what they're called, but I believe filters will prevent the real name) are both bloody and deadly. When (although rare) chickens fight other creatures, it's more like a barroom brawl or mob (if there is enough of them) than a swarm. Even "helping" each other in the brrawl everyone is doing their own thing. Chickens literally throw themselves at whatever they're fighting. Usually that's a group/egg/chick preservation thing. But in this case it's a "what I raised you from the dead to do thing." And yes even though the 3/4/5 flock mechanic thing is more complicated (I did try my best to simplify and clarify it as much as possible) I think it better represents them. Even though they fight together they fight as individuals. I also think it makes them more challenging/different/interesting to fight against. That's how I see and understand it.
First paragraph, last sentence under Zombie Flu : ''If there is no 'master' around, then this new zombie wanders around like a 'normal' zombie.'' Apologies, I thought that was enough of a description for what happens to a creature turned zombie. Just standard zombie stats. If you read Vecnagon the Unending's description you would know he cares nothing for humanoid creatures and wouldn't give them any special "anythings." Perhaps I should have used the word 'standard' and not 'normal.' I think in terms more "story" than "rulebook." So my apologies for that misunderstanding.
I was actually inspired to create these guys from the April Fool's day event from Neverwinter Online. You face off against zombie chickens. For some reason I thought that was coolest thing. I guess you would consider them "standard" zombie chickens. So I guess, technically, D&D has zombie chickens. But not Vecnagon's Flock of Zombie Chickens.....not yet. =)
I was trying to think of a visual example of mob and swarm...zombie wise. I think I have it. Mob. Almost every zombie movie and tv show. Walking Dead, Day of the Dead (both versions), Resident Evil (people zombies). Swarm. World War Z, and that one episode of Z Nation with the giant rolling boulder made of zombies. Think snowball rolling down a hill concept, but with zombies instead of snow.
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Though it might not sound like it, I already agree with you that chickens (and many non-human creatures) are smarter than most people think. Perhaps it's easier if we had a common point of reference. Note that the designations below are largely based on my own (limited) awareness of creature behavior based on what's been demonstrated in both wild and lab reports. However, the "D&D examples" are based solely on what is printed in books or on-line, and are not necessarily what I would agree to be the INT of such creatures.
INT 1 ~ beetle or moth . Acting mostly or entirely by instinct. Memory is very short term only.
D&D monster examples: Animated Armor, Lemure.
INT 2 ~ tortoise or guinea pig . Acting mostly on instinct, but capable of learning a few things, perhaps even able to navigate a simple maze and make small improvements with multiple repeated and frequent attempts. Occasionally capable of long term memory.
D&D monster examples: Ankylosaurus, Gorgon (the bull-type, not the Greek myth vers.), Stirge
INT 3 ~ cats, dogs, pigs . Acting somewhat on instinct yet also capable of learning of concrete information, with limited linguistic capabilities. Capable of engaging in problem solving based on trial and error. Often utilizes long term memories. Capable of teaching their young by example. Social behavior capability evident.
D&D monster examples: Chimera, Zombie
INT 4 ~ baboons, ravens . Similar to INT 3, but improved ability to learn languages and to some capacity to engage in novel problem solving and limited tool use. Capable of teaching their young limited symbolic concepts as well as by example. On occasion, demonstrates complex social and tactical behavior.
D&D monster examples: Giant Weasel, Remorhaz
INT 5 ~ some parrots, elephants . Similar to INT 4, but also capable of self-recognition. Expanded use of tools and complex language capabilities. Capable of long term planning. Much social education necessary for healthy rearing of young.
D&D monster examples: Dretch (type of demon), Shambling Mound, Wyvern
INT 6 ~ chimpanzees, dolphins . Similar to 5, but with greater capacity for symbolic manipulation, intentional deception, and great deal of dependency on learning just to survive.
D&D monster examples: Air and Fire Elementels, Flesh Golem, Hellhound
INT 7+ ~ human intelligence.
D&D monster examples: Ghoul, Manticore, Worg
Re: your Zombie Chickens. They can be as intelligent as you want them to be, but just be aware that an INT 8 creature is basically a tool-user with extensive likelihood to engage in behavior that is deceptive to the PCs. They are also likely to want to adorn and have complex hierarchies amongst themselves. I could be wrong, but that sounds a lot more complicated than you need to represent a zombie or a chicken.
I wasn't disagreeing with you that they are hard to catch. One of the reasons why I presented the Swarm of Rats was that, if you look at Condition Immunities, it includes Charmed, Grappled, Paralyzed, and Restrained. It also simplifies what are you writing down for other people to read instead of having large blocks of text. Also, what you were describing as "throwing themselves" at their enemy is quite characteristic of a rat swarm. Rats are capable of learning, but don't really have the sophisticated social behavior to actually plan amongst themselves how to attack as a group. They just surround and overwhelm by sheer numbers. And panic and run in sheer collective terror when faced with obviously Scary Thing, like a Wall of Fire. (Again, from what you have described as how you picture chicken (and by extension zombie chicken) behavior, that sounds to be like INT 2 or 3.) By having 3, 4, or 5 as #s of chickens, you're making it unnecessarily complex for yourself to keep track of.
Re: Vecnagon . Since I don't have much experience fighting beyond CR 16, I cannot offer useful feedback on that.
It's a fun silly idea that I can see you were going for but it doesn't work mechanically, and there is much too much text explaining it. Vecnagon is rated as CR 24 but has no means of flight and pretty limited ranged options. Most of the threat from him seems to come from his chickens but those chickens are completely ineffectual against flying opponents. Parties of level 10+ generally have multiple sources of flight available to them so could easily "death-from-above" Vecnagon and his endless chickens. Similarly the chickens pose minimal threat to any party of level 7+ since their hit points are so low that any AoE spell will simply obliterate them. One Fireball and they are now Vecnagon's Kentucky Fried Chickens.
Even with rule books, I tend to look at things as I personally understand them. Then I try to represent that understanding in a game. Thanks for your explanation on Int. It actually helps. I better see where you're coming from and it put my sight more back into game terms. With your explantion , I have to personally take into account my own thinking. They are zombies. Most of the time they are being "told" what to do. But having stated that, I want(ed) them to have some thinking capabilities of their own. Like avoiding a trap or fireballs. They don't have young to teach, but Int 4's description fits best what I had in mind. Thank you.....again. =)
I will have to look into the swarm thing again. And again I understand. My "beef" is just that chickens don't think or act that way. At least not like a swarm of rats or ravens. Mostly because they don't physically move that way. Again I am thinking in terms of what I personally know. Not so much in game terms. It's difficult to represent what reality I know into game reality and find that balance. As I stated before, they fight more like a brawl rather than a swarm. Together but individually. Which is why I came up with flock concept. It's wordy, but not difficult to understand.
Agilemind.
I did think about the keeping track part. But as players we've done all kinds of stuff to keep track of pieces on the board, locations on a map, etc with the use of certain colored dice, beads, tokens, coins, legos, pieces of paper with numbers and/or pictograms, etc. Nowadays it seems as if you don't have a laser printer yourself, you know someone who does and making the appropriate figures to represent isn't a far fetched idea either. Hence 3/4/5 flock playing "pieces." My thoughts are old school, because that is what I am. Literally and figuratively. For better or worse. x-p In addition, I don't know what the 5e monster manual looks like, the "old" one or the "new" one coming out. But back in the day, certain monsters would have multiple descriptions in that single listing, for slightly to extremely varying versions of said monster. Each version did not have it's own listing Hence my 3/4/5 thing for zombie chickens. Using a website, I've already made the flock of 3 zombie chickens. =)
I know it's wordy. That was a concern for me. But I can't help but try to be thorough enough to make sure other people, besides myself, would understand what I'm writing about. It's my 'habit.' I even speak that way. I will repeat the same thing, using different words, at least 3 times to make sure I'm understood. A habit from my old profession I guess. Where I would communicate with people whose primary language is not english. Heck even people whose primary language is english have a hard time understanding english. So I apologize for the tedious text. I just didn't want to write something so brief that I would get swamped with questions of what's this, what if this then what, is it this way or that way, etc. But I do understand where you're coming from. Who wants to read more. Having said that, if it peaks someone's interest they will read more. At least that's what I'm trying to do. Make a character/'monster to peak their interest. I get it though, I don't like to read 'more' myself...in general.
Vecnagon is not meant to fly. He's meant to move. He's a an undead zombie-esque harengon lich. He's meant to move quickly, jump high, and get out of or in the way. Jump to a ledge or something that puts him in range of or out of range of a flyer. That was done on purpose. Perhaps I should make him more houdini-ish. Unless he's caught outside, his movement should allow for decent escape from death from above. But maybe I should look into the "methods" a little more. I thought he had too much range stuff. I'll have to look into that as well.
In all truth I had toned him down, because I thought he had too much. Perhaps I was wrong in that thinking. Like I stated in the zombie chicken's description that I understand what CR is but the math of it confuses me. And back in the day I was a science/math major...ugh.
Don't forget. They're chickens. Zombie chickens, but chickens. Having said that they only need that one hit. That one peck, stab, or scratch. In addition they can fly. Not much, but they can. The different flocks do not have to move together. Like a party, they can spread out. They can fly a short distance from one perch to a higher perch and so on. To get to where they need to be. They can not hover, so they need to land on something. That includes landing on a creature. And I think they would more accurately be Vecnagon's Avernus Fried Chickens from a fireball. =) They're primary purpose with Vecnagon was always meant to be a distraction.
Told you I'm wordy. But seriously thank you for your input. I will have look at his powerset again. Although he is not using flight spells, doesn't he mean he doesn't know them. He feels he doesn't need it. I will have to make sure that is true.
Again thanks for all the input. It helps me. Alot. Most appreciative. Did anyone catch the homage I made to the first appearance of Vecna's name?
Greetings again. Happy New Years !!! It's almost here.
As such I have to make comment before the year is out. No one seems to have found my homage to Vecna in Vecnagon's description. Here it is. From this year, 2024, it was 48 years ago that Vecna's name was first published in DnD. For his hand and eye. And in the very first sentence of Vecnagon's description: "Standing at a towering 4'8", Vecnagon is an intimidating archlich."
Now back to the chickens. =) I have taken in everything I've read. I don't believe I will be using the "swarm" rules or descriptions for them. Even though I am still looking into it. I believe I will keep the "flock" idea but I am going to streamline it.
Even though I think in terms of a DM, meaning lots of details hence wordy, I do understand the place of the PC. Their primary concern is their pc and running rampant through a world made and controlled by someone else. Details they don't need to keep track of until it's in their face. But a DM does. Which is one of the reasons for why I am always so detailed in my explanations of things. So I am going to streamline the 'flock' and the words in the stat block as best as I can. But I will be having the details in the descriptions. I plan to do the same to Vecnagon the Unending.
Curiously though, no one has 'said' anything about the magic items or what they thought about them. Does that mean you read them and were okay with them? Or you didn't read them? I think they're ok and serve their purpose. But I could be on the wrong side of 5e mechanics. 5e, still something I'm reading up on.
Thanks again for all the input. It truly is appreciated.
LanguagesThe zombie flocks understand whatever language their creator speaks
Challenge 3 Proficiency Bonus+2
Zombie Flu : Any creature that takes piercing or slashing damage from a zombie chicken must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature becomes poisoned as it is infected by Zombie Flu. Zombie Flu manifests as severe abdominal pain, fever and nausea which incapacitates it's victim. An infected creature recovers only if it's poisoned condition ends and it is targeted by a Remove Curse spell. If the creature is not cured within 3 rounds it becomes a zombie controlled by the same entity controlling the chicken that infected it or as an ally to the chicken if nothing is controlling the chicken. If the creature it still not cured within 3 days it cannot be cured except by a Wish spell.
Flock : Zombie Chickens will flee from combat unless present as a flock of 3-5 chickens, this flock considered a single Small sized creature. Each time a flock takes damage and is not killed outright, reduce the number of chickens in the flock by 1. A flock can enter the space of another creature and can move through any space suitable for a Tiny creature unimpeded. While the flock occupies the space of another creature, that creature must make a DC 10 Concentration Check (i.e. a Constitution saving throw) at the start of each of their turns, on a failure the chickens disrupt their intended activity and they are considered incapacitated until the start of their next turn.
Limited Flight. The chickens have a fly speed of 10 ft but must end their turn standing on a solid object capable of holding their weight or they fall to the ground.
Actions
Peck and Spur: Melee Weapon Attack: +X to hit, reach 5 ft., 1 target. Hit: X piercing damage. Where X = number of chickens in the flock.
Bonus Actions
Merge: The flock merges with another flock within 5ft of it, this flock vanishes and the target flock increases the number of chickens within it by 1 and is restored to full hit points.
Reactions
Really Fast Sons of Birdies: When the flock takes damage or is grappled or restrained, it can immediately end the grapple or restrained condition and moves or flies a distance up to its movement speed - this movement ignores difficult terrain and does not trigger attacks of opportunity.
Description:
Zombie chickens are as intelligent as normal chickens and capable of basic problem solving, cooperation, and strategizing whom is most vulnerable to their pecks and when is the most opportune time to strike. However all zombie chickens know there is safety in numbers and will only fight if in a flock of at least 3 birds. However, they are also competitive and are rarely found in flocks of more than 5 birds. Zombie chickens act like normal chickens - only fighting to defend themselves or their nests - unless under the control of their creator - typically Vecnagon or a creature attuned to his artifacts. While under the control of their creator, the zombie chickens follow all commands given to them to the best of their ability.
1) It's not appropriate for an item description to include the behaviour of PCs/NPCs towards the item. For PCs it is up to the player roleplaying that character to decide how their character responds and what they think about the item, for NPCs it is up to the DM to decide based on what knowledge the characters have and their personal motivations.
2) The curse is so severe it makes no sense for any PC/NPC to want the items. The curse is likely the most well known aspect of the items since most of the time it will kill the person attuned to the item before they get much use from the item itself thus in-world these would be legendary cursed items that PCs/NPCs would avoid.
3) Simply saying "people think these are good luck charms" makes no sense. Anyone that has encountered the items will be able to clearly witness they are severely cursed so that is what they will write down in their journals and tell other people and other people have no reason to believe they are lying. Thus everyone who knows of these items will know they are severely cursed, but will have little idea of their beneficial powers. And again it's not appropriate for magic items to define the world around them, they are simply items with properties, the DM determines how those items interact with their world not the creator of the item.
4) Why can't the Wish ability be used to undo the negative effects of the items?
Here is a "fixed" - i.e. 5e style version of the eye:
Wondrous Item, unknown rarity (requires attunement by a An Eye for an Eye.)
Torn out of Vecnagon's head and sold as a luck charm, Vecnagon cursed it before he made his escape from his would be butcher.
Vecnagon's Obscure Eye (Requires Attunement by replacing one of your own eyes with this item)
While attuned to the eye you gain the following abilities:
You have Darkvision with a range of 30 feet.
You may cast True Seeing on yourself at will
You can cast Forsight on yourself once, and regain the ability to do so at the next Dawn.
The eye has 8 charges. You can use an action and expend 1 or more charges to cast one of the following spells (save DC 18) from it: Blight (3 charges), Blindness/Deafness (1 charge), Dominate Beast (4 charges), Eyebite (4 charges), Ray of Enfeeblement (3 charges). The eye regains 1d4 + 4 expended charges daily at dawn. Each time you cast a spell using the eye, it casts the Suggestion spell on you (save DC 18), demanding that you commit an evil act. It might have a specific act in mind or leave it up to you.
Curse: Oooooo. When a creature touches the Eye they are magically compelled to insert it into their own eye socket. They make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw, on a failure they rip out their own eye and replace it with Vecnagon's Obscure Eye and immediately attune to it. Once attuned to the eye a creature is unwilling to unattune it.
Curse: Diabolical Debacle. On the dawn third day after attuning with Vecnagon's Obscure Eye, you must make a DC 18 Constitution saving throw, on a failure you are afflicted with the curse Diabolical Debacle. You repeat this save every dawn until you fail the save.
A creature afflicted with Diabolical Debacle suffers as follows, each subsequent ailment is gained in addition to those of the previous day :
Day one: Blinding Sickness. Pain grips the your mind, and your eyes turn milky white. You have disadvantage on Wisdom checks and Wisdom saving throws and are blinded.
Day two:Filth Fever. A raging fever sweeps through your body. You have disadvantage on Strength checks, Strength saving throws, and attack rolls that use Strength.
Day three: Flesh Rot. Your flesh decays. You have disadvantage on Charisma checks and vulnerability to all damage.
Day four: Mindfire. Your mind becomes feverish. You have disadvantage on Intelligence checks and Intelligence saving throws, and you behave as if under the effects of the confusion spell during combat.
Day five: Seizure. You are overcome with shaking. You have disadvantage on Dexterity checks, Dexterity saving throws, and attack rolls that use Dexterity.
Day six: Slimy Doom. You begin to bleed uncontrollably. You have disadvantage on Constitution checks and Constitution saving throws. In addition, whenever you take damage, you are stunned until the end of its next turn.
Day eight: Death. You die.
The only way to end this curse is to forcibly remove this eye by succeeding on a DC 18 Strength check - either by you or another creature within reach of you. However, you remain disfigured and have disadvantage on all Charisma checks even after the eye is removed. This removal also instantly removes attunement to the eye.
Curse: What wuz dat. When the attunement to the Eye is broken, the creature loses all memory of what happened while they were attuned to the Eye and their mind instead replaces these lost memories with happy fantasies.
Properties of the Eye and Foot. If you are attuned to both the foot and eye, you gain the following additional benefits:
You are immune to poison and paralysis.
Your senses are heightened, you can't be surprised unless you are incapacitated.
If you start your turn with at least 1 hit point, you regain 1d8 hit points.
Plethora of Poultry : As an action, you can summon one Flock of Zombie Chickens next to each humanoid creature within 30 ft of you. These chickens are under your control.
You can use an action to cast the Wish spell without suffering any of the normal penalties. This ability can't be used again until 38 days have passed.
Destroying the Eye. Any attempt to destroy the eye seems to work. It goes out in a blaze of unholy glory or just fades away. In truth the artifact reappears in or near (within a mile) one of Vecnagon'smany Hollow on the HIlls, where it waits to be rediscovered by anyone.
Any item that requires a PC to actually cut off a major body part in order to be used is Very unlikely to ever be used. Most players are not into self-mutilation or the mutilation of their characters. If you want your item to act like a worse version of the (2014) Contagion spell, you need to reconsider this. Also, the aesthetics of these items just screams "I am cursed, be very careful!" Consider the Rings of Power in LotR. They don't look evil. They look like bands of metal with funny squiggles on them.
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I've created and posted 2 homebrew monsters and 2 homebrew magic items. Each revolving around the "main" monster.
It's been over 10 years since the last real DnD game I've played. And over 30 years since I've DM'd. I've only recently gotten my interest in DnD reignited. Mostly thanks to the 50th stuff. Venger in particular. I would really like honest opinions about what I've created and posted.
I was inspired by 2 things. With the 50th anniversary Vecna has returned. An NPC I never got the chance to play or play against. As DM or PC. And the Wild Beyond the Witchlight. More specifically the Harengon. Images of Usagi Yojimbo danced in my head.
The main monster's name is Vecnagon. Before all the "ouches" and "oh no's" please check it out. Read it first. I would truly appreciate honest practical opinions. Please.
The other monster(s) and both magical items contain the same name: Vecnagon. A side note. I understand what CR's are and represent. But I may not have gotten it right. Like I said honest practical opinions. Another note.I make an homage to the first appearance of Vecna's name in DnD in Vecnagon's description. See if you can figure it out. I also kept the fairies 3's and 8's mixed in as much as possible.
Thanks to all those who help me out. And Happy and Safe Holidays.
You'll need to share the link to the monster if you want us to look it over.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
No offense to homebrewers, but I have rarely met a DM that could create a balanced Homebrew monster. They are either too weak or so strong they TPK.
I would always suggest using the monsters already in the core book(s). Not all Homebrew monsters have to recreated from video game bosses.
It's very do-able to homebrew a monster of the appropriate CR. It just takes comparison with already existing monsters' CRs and a bit of playtesting.
Monsters - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
Magic Items - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
I don't know if I did that correctly. But all you have to do is type Vecnagon in the name search of the homebrew monster page. Do the same for the homebrew magic items page. Apologies I am not tech savy ... at all. I'm surprised I know how to use the forum. x-p
Unfortunately I am unable to playtest it, which is one of the reasons I'm looking for opinions. And it's not based on a video game boss. Which is why I asked that it be read first before the "ouches" and "oh no's". I do hope the links work for you.
Again thanks now for those who help me out. And Happy and Safe Holidays.
Forewarning. I'm a bit wordy. I can't help but go into the details.
If you look at the main page of your monster you can grab the address for it.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/4897641-vecnagons-flock-of-zombie-chickens
These are very much ranked too low. CR 1/8 means a lvl 1 character can solo two of them. CR 1 means a party of 4 lvl 1 characters can handle one of them. Supposedly.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Looking at it, they're largely in line with 1/8. They have a slightly higher AC and half the HP of a Animated Knife - they've have a powerful Resistance set, but that just brings them up to par. The thing that concerns me is that DC15 check to not become a zombie. That's incredibly punishing - usually, something that harsh is reserved for much later levels (like, towards the teens). I'd drop the DC by a lot, because the CR will be broken otherwise - if you keep the DC and CR, the party will become zombies if they fight a dozen of these, which is how the encounter would be constructed. If you keep the DC but increase the CR, then the fight will be way too easy.
Personally, I'd drop the DC on that check.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
First, a review of the Vecnagon Zombie chickens. Cute and possibly horrifying. Good job on capturing the flavor.
Re: stats and CR
I agree with Linklite that they should be a higher CR, probably closer to CR 1 since what they are resistant to is the most common damage type and they can inflict the Poisoned status. Their ability to escape non-magical restrain abilities is also part of the factoring in, though I admit that since I am not yet caught up on the new PC grappling rules, I'm uncertain how much that ability would impact the fight. Creatures less than CR 1 seem to follow the pattern of NOT inflicting the Poisoned condition even if they do poison damage.
Surprised that Zombie Chickens have an Intelligence of 8. That's...really high for both chickens and zombies. The "standard" humanoid Zombie has an INT of 3. Though I guess this only comes into play if the PCs throw illusion spells or spam Mind Sliver/Whip at them.
For simpliicity's sake and to match the actual danger of a creature that can permanently turn another creature into a zombie (see my thoughts on the CR above), I would advise increasing the hit point total for the Zombie Chickens and to treat them as a Swarm, using Swarm rules. See the Swarm of Rats, for instance, which have a lot more hit points than a standard D&D rat and only can attack creatures in their same space. Designating 3, 4, or 5 chickens seems unnecessarily complicated.
Also, this wasn't mentioned in the Vecnagon Zombie Chicken description: the creature (possibly a PC) turned into a Zombie...would they have the same stats as a standard humanoid Zombie? Or would they be potentially much more powerful?
No offense, you've met the wrong DMs.
I thought the links I had worked giving you the choice of which to to look at, but I'll try again. I hope the following makes it easier. And I hope I did right. Well here you go.
Vecnagon the Unending - Monsters - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
Vecnagon's Flock of Zombie Chickens - Monsters - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
Vecnagon's Obscure Eye - Magic Items - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
Vecnagon's Unfavorable Foot - Magic Items - Homebrew - D&D Beyond
Link, SoB (sorry couldn't resist) thank you both for your response and constructive criticism. I figured the chickens would grab the most attention. x-p . Again, been a LONG time since I've played and 5e is somewhat unfamiliar to me, even with having the most recent books. For me it's like starting from scratch.
Linklite. From my personal understanding I thought DC 15 was "low-ish." But I can be and most likely am totally wrong about that. The whole idea of the "curse/infection" is to be "punishing." But not debilitating to gameplay. I don't really want to get rid of the DC but am MORE than willing to lower it. What number would you think would fit best. Just hate that I can't edit what I posted and have to post a whole new "version" of it. Especially for just one or two changes....ugh. Query. Does dropping the DC also mean dropping the Con Save? And if not what would be the player's target number for that?
Song of Blues. Have you ever tried to catch a chicken? And hold onto them if you succeeded in catching them? it's not an easy task. I personally never could. Not "dumb" enough now to try. As a really really young kid I did try. My mom's uncle got upset with me. I've also seen others try. It makes for great excercise. You have to really know what you're doing. Although it's a movie. Watch the original Rocky. It's pretty accurate. Although that was a very confined space, just imagine what it would be like in a more open space. The Zombie Flu is supposed to be a magically infused infection. I was trying to represent that in it's abilities and description. This illness is Vecnagon's zombie chickens signature. That more than anything is what's supposed to differentiate these creatures from others. I did my best to explain this in the 'character' description part of the creature(s) and trait description. I apologize if this comes across as combative. Text does not account for tone. I truly appreciate the feedback. All of it.
These aren't supposed to be your ordinary garden variety 'zombie chickens.' They're Vecnagon's special brand of zombie chickens. In general, humans tend to ignore or downplay the actual intelligence that chickens actually have. And when 'we' see them do something we consider intelligent, 'we' are surprised and amazed. Like watching a carnival act. We as a species apply this mentality to all non human creatures. In addition non human creature tend to be extremely more loyal to those they consider "their own." My 'thourght' on these guys is that they are also "infected" by the curse making them a different kind of zombie.
As per your points made. I think CR 1 would be too much for them. Even with their 'special' abilities. I was wondering if 1/8 was high enough but not 1. At least from how I see it. I saw and read the descriptions of 'swarm.' And honestly I still don't think it's a proper representation of how chickens work together or fight for that matter. Hens and roosters can be quite bloodthirsty in a fight. Especially if they are taught that. Illegal "rooster fights" ( i know that's not what they're called, but I believe filters will prevent the real name) are both bloody and deadly. When (although rare) chickens fight other creatures, it's more like a barroom brawl or mob (if there is enough of them) than a swarm. Even "helping" each other in the brrawl everyone is doing their own thing. Chickens literally throw themselves at whatever they're fighting. Usually that's a group/egg/chick preservation thing. But in this case it's a "what I raised you from the dead to do thing." And yes even though the 3/4/5 flock mechanic thing is more complicated (I did try my best to simplify and clarify it as much as possible) I think it better represents them. Even though they fight together they fight as individuals. I also think it makes them more challenging/different/interesting to fight against. That's how I see and understand it.
First paragraph, last sentence under Zombie Flu : ''If there is no 'master' around, then this new zombie wanders around like a 'normal' zombie.'' Apologies, I thought that was enough of a description for what happens to a creature turned zombie. Just standard zombie stats. If you read Vecnagon the Unending's description you would know he cares nothing for humanoid creatures and wouldn't give them any special "anythings." Perhaps I should have used the word 'standard' and not 'normal.' I think in terms more "story" than "rulebook." So my apologies for that misunderstanding.
I was actually inspired to create these guys from the April Fool's day event from Neverwinter Online. You face off against zombie chickens. For some reason I thought that was coolest thing. I guess you would consider them "standard" zombie chickens. So I guess, technically, D&D has zombie chickens. But not Vecnagon's Flock of Zombie Chickens.....not yet. =)
I was trying to think of a visual example of mob and swarm...zombie wise. I think I have it. Mob. Almost every zombie movie and tv show. Walking Dead, Day of the Dead (both versions), Resident Evil (people zombies). Swarm. World War Z, and that one episode of Z Nation with the giant rolling boulder made of zombies. Think snowball rolling down a hill concept, but with zombies instead of snow.
I warned you, I'm wordy. =) Thank you for taking the time. Happy Holidays.
WRT the Con Save:
The issue is that at CR 1/8, there'll be a lot of them fighting the party (to make up a decent size encounter. You'll be fighting these in T1 (so levels 1-4) and Con is usually either a secondary stat or a dump stat, so most characters will have +0, with a couple of characters having maybe +3. With +3 and a DC15, you've only got a 40% chance of succeeding. That's not necessarily too bad, but the consequences are severe - potentially it could essentially be a death sentence. When you've got lots of attacks (because it's statted for CR 1/8), that means that someone is practically guaranteed to fail.
A creature with a similar CR that has a Con Save to avoid a debilitating effect is the Diseased Giant Rat, which has a Con Save DC10 to avoid becoming diseased, where your Max HP reduces by 1d6 per day and you die at 0. That's easier to cure (more spells and potions are effective, you don't necessarily need magic). You so don't lose control of your character in the mean time.
With that in mind, I'd make it no higher than that, so DC10. Possibly lower - perhaps DC8 or even 7.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Hey.
I understand what you've written. When I "made" them I was actually thinking of them fighting pc's of higher levels than 1-4. Which is why I made it DC 15. I understood that the CR represented the difficulty "level" of the monster. I really didn't consider the level of the players. At least not wholly. I was thinking in concepts of higher level 16-20 pc's. The idea was an unassuming non threatening in appearance monster that has a VERY dangerous bite. Kind of with the intention of making at least one person fail. Just to show/prove the threat of the monster(s).
If the group contains a cleric or paladin and a general healer/doctor, they would have what they need to cure the victim. And they have 3 days to cure them. Even if they become zombified. And part of the healing can come from spells or potions and such. it's simply a two part cure. Since there are no 'cure poison' spells of any kind, I had read somewhere that the magic healers, a.k.a. clerics/paladins/etc cure that "stuff" with their spells. One part of the cure more easily available than the other. But still attainable. I would think. This is where team play would come in.
Following your suggestion I would lean more towards 10. I like "even" numbers. Even though 9 and 12 screams out to me. If you didn't notice. Almost all the numbers used are divisibles or multiples of 3's and/or 8's. Keeping in tune with the fairy world thing. Hence the screaming 9 and 12. =)
I do appreciate the help with Vecnagon's zombie chickens. But I am curious of your take on Vecnagon himself. And what I did there. Again something that wouldn't appear to be as dangerous as it actually is.
Though it might not sound like it, I already agree with you that chickens (and many non-human creatures) are smarter than most people think. Perhaps it's easier if we had a common point of reference. Note that the designations below are largely based on my own (limited) awareness of creature behavior based on what's been demonstrated in both wild and lab reports. However, the "D&D examples" are based solely on what is printed in books or on-line, and are not necessarily what I would agree to be the INT of such creatures.
INT 1 ~ beetle or moth . Acting mostly or entirely by instinct. Memory is very short term only.
D&D monster examples: Animated Armor, Lemure.
INT 2 ~ tortoise or guinea pig . Acting mostly on instinct, but capable of learning a few things, perhaps even able to navigate a simple maze and make small improvements with multiple repeated and frequent attempts. Occasionally capable of long term memory.
D&D monster examples: Ankylosaurus, Gorgon (the bull-type, not the Greek myth vers.), Stirge
INT 3 ~ cats, dogs, pigs . Acting somewhat on instinct yet also capable of learning of concrete information, with limited linguistic capabilities. Capable of engaging in problem solving based on trial and error. Often utilizes long term memories. Capable of teaching their young by example. Social behavior capability evident.
D&D monster examples: Chimera, Zombie
INT 4 ~ baboons, ravens . Similar to INT 3, but improved ability to learn languages and to some capacity to engage in novel problem solving and limited tool use. Capable of teaching their young limited symbolic concepts as well as by example. On occasion, demonstrates complex social and tactical behavior.
D&D monster examples: Giant Weasel, Remorhaz
INT 5 ~ some parrots, elephants . Similar to INT 4, but also capable of self-recognition. Expanded use of tools and complex language capabilities. Capable of long term planning. Much social education necessary for healthy rearing of young.
D&D monster examples: Dretch (type of demon), Shambling Mound, Wyvern
INT 6 ~ chimpanzees, dolphins . Similar to 5, but with greater capacity for symbolic manipulation, intentional deception, and great deal of dependency on learning just to survive.
D&D monster examples: Air and Fire Elementels, Flesh Golem, Hellhound
INT 7+ ~ human intelligence.
D&D monster examples: Ghoul, Manticore, Worg
Re: your Zombie Chickens. They can be as intelligent as you want them to be, but just be aware that an INT 8 creature is basically a tool-user with extensive likelihood to engage in behavior that is deceptive to the PCs. They are also likely to want to adorn and have complex hierarchies amongst themselves. I could be wrong, but that sounds a lot more complicated than you need to represent a zombie or a chicken.
I wasn't disagreeing with you that they are hard to catch. One of the reasons why I presented the Swarm of Rats was that, if you look at Condition Immunities, it includes Charmed, Grappled, Paralyzed, and Restrained. It also simplifies what are you writing down for other people to read instead of having large blocks of text. Also, what you were describing as "throwing themselves" at their enemy is quite characteristic of a rat swarm. Rats are capable of learning, but don't really have the sophisticated social behavior to actually plan amongst themselves how to attack as a group. They just surround and overwhelm by sheer numbers. And panic and run in sheer collective terror when faced with obviously Scary Thing, like a Wall of Fire. (Again, from what you have described as how you picture chicken (and by extension zombie chicken) behavior, that sounds to be like INT 2 or 3.) By having 3, 4, or 5 as #s of chickens, you're making it unnecessarily complex for yourself to keep track of.
Re: Vecnagon . Since I don't have much experience fighting beyond CR 16, I cannot offer useful feedback on that.
It's a fun silly idea that I can see you were going for but it doesn't work mechanically, and there is much too much text explaining it. Vecnagon is rated as CR 24 but has no means of flight and pretty limited ranged options. Most of the threat from him seems to come from his chickens but those chickens are completely ineffectual against flying opponents. Parties of level 10+ generally have multiple sources of flight available to them so could easily "death-from-above" Vecnagon and his endless chickens. Similarly the chickens pose minimal threat to any party of level 7+ since their hit points are so low that any AoE spell will simply obliterate them. One Fireball and they are now Vecnagon's Kentucky Fried Chickens.
Hello.
Song of Blues.
Thank you.
Even with rule books, I tend to look at things as I personally understand them. Then I try to represent that understanding in a game. Thanks for your explanation on Int. It actually helps. I better see where you're coming from and it put my sight more back into game terms. With your explantion , I have to personally take into account my own thinking. They are zombies. Most of the time they are being "told" what to do. But having stated that, I want(ed) them to have some thinking capabilities of their own. Like avoiding a trap or fireballs. They don't have young to teach, but Int 4's description fits best what I had in mind. Thank you.....again. =)
I will have to look into the swarm thing again. And again I understand. My "beef" is just that chickens don't think or act that way. At least not like a swarm of rats or ravens. Mostly because they don't physically move that way. Again I am thinking in terms of what I personally know. Not so much in game terms. It's difficult to represent what reality I know into game reality and find that balance. As I stated before, they fight more like a brawl rather than a swarm. Together but individually. Which is why I came up with flock concept. It's wordy, but not difficult to understand.
Agilemind.
I did think about the keeping track part. But as players we've done all kinds of stuff to keep track of pieces on the board, locations on a map, etc with the use of certain colored dice, beads, tokens, coins, legos, pieces of paper with numbers and/or pictograms, etc. Nowadays it seems as if you don't have a laser printer yourself, you know someone who does and making the appropriate figures to represent isn't a far fetched idea either. Hence 3/4/5 flock playing "pieces." My thoughts are old school, because that is what I am. Literally and figuratively. For better or worse. x-p In addition, I don't know what the 5e monster manual looks like, the "old" one or the "new" one coming out. But back in the day, certain monsters would have multiple descriptions in that single listing, for slightly to extremely varying versions of said monster. Each version did not have it's own listing Hence my 3/4/5 thing for zombie chickens. Using a website, I've already made the flock of 3 zombie chickens. =)
I know it's wordy. That was a concern for me. But I can't help but try to be thorough enough to make sure other people, besides myself, would understand what I'm writing about. It's my 'habit.' I even speak that way. I will repeat the same thing, using different words, at least 3 times to make sure I'm understood. A habit from my old profession I guess. Where I would communicate with people whose primary language is not english. Heck even people whose primary language is english have a hard time understanding english. So I apologize for the tedious text. I just didn't want to write something so brief that I would get swamped with questions of what's this, what if this then what, is it this way or that way, etc. But I do understand where you're coming from. Who wants to read more. Having said that, if it peaks someone's interest they will read more. At least that's what I'm trying to do. Make a character/'monster to peak their interest. I get it though, I don't like to read 'more' myself...in general.
Vecnagon is not meant to fly. He's meant to move. He's a an undead zombie-esque harengon lich. He's meant to move quickly, jump high, and get out of or in the way. Jump to a ledge or something that puts him in range of or out of range of a flyer. That was done on purpose. Perhaps I should make him more houdini-ish. Unless he's caught outside, his movement should allow for decent escape from death from above. But maybe I should look into the "methods" a little more. I thought he had too much range stuff. I'll have to look into that as well.
In all truth I had toned him down, because I thought he had too much. Perhaps I was wrong in that thinking. Like I stated in the zombie chicken's description that I understand what CR is but the math of it confuses me. And back in the day I was a science/math major...ugh.
Don't forget. They're chickens. Zombie chickens, but chickens. Having said that they only need that one hit. That one peck, stab, or scratch. In addition they can fly. Not much, but they can. The different flocks do not have to move together. Like a party, they can spread out. They can fly a short distance from one perch to a higher perch and so on. To get to where they need to be. They can not hover, so they need to land on something. That includes landing on a creature. And I think they would more accurately be Vecnagon's Avernus Fried Chickens from a fireball. =) They're primary purpose with Vecnagon was always meant to be a distraction.
Told you I'm wordy. But seriously thank you for your input. I will have look at his powerset again. Although he is not using flight spells, doesn't he mean he doesn't know them. He feels he doesn't need it. I will have to make sure that is true.
Again thanks for all the input. It helps me. Alot. Most appreciative. Did anyone catch the homage I made to the first appearance of Vecna's name?
Greetings again. Happy New Years !!! It's almost here.
As such I have to make comment before the year is out. No one seems to have found my homage to Vecna in Vecnagon's description. Here it is. From this year, 2024, it was 48 years ago that Vecna's name was first published in DnD. For his hand and eye. And in the very first sentence of Vecnagon's description: "Standing at a towering 4'8", Vecnagon is an intimidating archlich."
Now back to the chickens. =) I have taken in everything I've read. I don't believe I will be using the "swarm" rules or descriptions for them. Even though I am still looking into it. I believe I will keep the "flock" idea but I am going to streamline it.
Even though I think in terms of a DM, meaning lots of details hence wordy, I do understand the place of the PC. Their primary concern is their pc and running rampant through a world made and controlled by someone else. Details they don't need to keep track of until it's in their face. But a DM does. Which is one of the reasons for why I am always so detailed in my explanations of things. So I am going to streamline the 'flock' and the words in the stat block as best as I can. But I will be having the details in the descriptions. I plan to do the same to Vecnagon the Unending.
Curiously though, no one has 'said' anything about the magic items or what they thought about them. Does that mean you read them and were okay with them? Or you didn't read them? I think they're ok and serve their purpose. But I could be on the wrong side of 5e mechanics. 5e, still something I'm reading up on.
Thanks again for all the input. It truly is appreciated.
Happy and Safe New Years to you and yours.
I see if you aren't familiar with 5e style, here's an example of how I would simplify the Flock of Zombie Chickens:
Zombie Flu : Any creature that takes piercing or slashing damage from a zombie chicken must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, the creature becomes poisoned as it is infected by Zombie Flu. Zombie Flu manifests as severe abdominal pain, fever and nausea which incapacitates it's victim. An infected creature recovers only if it's poisoned condition ends and it is targeted by a Remove Curse spell. If the creature is not cured within 3 rounds it becomes a zombie controlled by the same entity controlling the chicken that infected it or as an ally to the chicken if nothing is controlling the chicken. If the creature it still not cured within 3 days it cannot be cured except by a Wish spell.
Flock : Zombie Chickens will flee from combat unless present as a flock of 3-5 chickens, this flock considered a single Small sized creature. Each time a flock takes damage and is not killed outright, reduce the number of chickens in the flock by 1. A flock can enter the space of another creature and can move through any space suitable for a Tiny creature unimpeded. While the flock occupies the space of another creature, that creature must make a DC 10 Concentration Check (i.e. a Constitution saving throw) at the start of each of their turns, on a failure the chickens disrupt their intended activity and they are considered incapacitated until the start of their next turn.
Limited Flight. The chickens have a fly speed of 10 ft but must end their turn standing on a solid object capable of holding their weight or they fall to the ground.
Actions
Peck and Spur: Melee Weapon Attack: +X to hit, reach 5 ft., 1 target. Hit: X piercing damage. Where X = number of chickens in the flock.
Bonus Actions
Merge: The flock merges with another flock within 5ft of it, this flock vanishes and the target flock increases the number of chickens within it by 1 and is restored to full hit points.
Reactions
Really Fast Sons of Birdies: When the flock takes damage or is grappled or restrained, it can immediately end the grapple or restrained condition and moves or flies a distance up to its movement speed - this movement ignores difficult terrain and does not trigger attacks of opportunity.
Description:
Zombie chickens are as intelligent as normal chickens and capable of basic problem solving, cooperation, and strategizing whom is most vulnerable to their pecks and when is the most opportune time to strike. However all zombie chickens know there is safety in numbers and will only fight if in a flock of at least 3 birds. However, they are also competitive and are rarely found in flocks of more than 5 birds. Zombie chickens act like normal chickens - only fighting to defend themselves or their nests - unless under the control of their creator - typically Vecnagon or a creature attuned to his artifacts. While under the control of their creator, the zombie chickens follow all commands given to them to the best of their ability.
Re: The items
1) It's not appropriate for an item description to include the behaviour of PCs/NPCs towards the item. For PCs it is up to the player roleplaying that character to decide how their character responds and what they think about the item, for NPCs it is up to the DM to decide based on what knowledge the characters have and their personal motivations.
2) The curse is so severe it makes no sense for any PC/NPC to want the items. The curse is likely the most well known aspect of the items since most of the time it will kill the person attuned to the item before they get much use from the item itself thus in-world these would be legendary cursed items that PCs/NPCs would avoid.
3) Simply saying "people think these are good luck charms" makes no sense. Anyone that has encountered the items will be able to clearly witness they are severely cursed so that is what they will write down in their journals and tell other people and other people have no reason to believe they are lying. Thus everyone who knows of these items will know they are severely cursed, but will have little idea of their beneficial powers. And again it's not appropriate for magic items to define the world around them, they are simply items with properties, the DM determines how those items interact with their world not the creator of the item.
4) Why can't the Wish ability be used to undo the negative effects of the items?
Here is a "fixed" - i.e. 5e style version of the eye:
Torn out of Vecnagon's head and sold as a luck charm, Vecnagon cursed it before he made his escape from his would be butcher.
Vecnagon's Obscure Eye
(Requires Attunement by replacing one of your own eyes with this item)
While attuned to the eye you gain the following abilities:
Curse: Oooooo. When a creature touches the Eye they are magically compelled to insert it into their own eye socket. They make a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw, on a failure they rip out their own eye and replace it with Vecnagon's Obscure Eye and immediately attune to it. Once attuned to the eye a creature is unwilling to unattune it.
Curse: Diabolical Debacle. On the dawn third day after attuning with Vecnagon's Obscure Eye, you must make a DC 18 Constitution saving throw, on a failure you are afflicted with the curse Diabolical Debacle. You repeat this save every dawn until you fail the save.
A creature afflicted with Diabolical Debacle suffers as follows, each subsequent ailment is gained in addition to those of the previous day :
The only way to end this curse is to forcibly remove this eye by succeeding on a DC 18 Strength check - either by you or another creature within reach of you. However, you remain disfigured and have disadvantage on all Charisma checks even after the eye is removed. This removal also instantly removes attunement to the eye.
Curse: What wuz dat. When the attunement to the Eye is broken, the creature loses all memory of what happened while they were attuned to the Eye and their mind instead replaces these lost memories with happy fantasies.
Properties of the Eye and Foot. If you are attuned to both the foot and eye, you gain the following additional benefits:
Destroying the Eye. Any attempt to destroy the eye seems to work. It goes out in a blaze of unholy glory or just fades away. In truth the artifact reappears in or near (within a mile) one of Vecnagon's many Hollow on the HIlls, where it waits to be rediscovered by anyone.
Re: VUE and VOF items
Any item that requires a PC to actually cut off a major body part in order to be used is Very unlikely to ever be used. Most players are not into self-mutilation or the mutilation of their characters. If you want your item to act like a worse version of the (2014) Contagion spell, you need to reconsider this. Also, the aesthetics of these items just screams "I am cursed, be very careful!" Consider the Rings of Power in LotR. They don't look evil. They look like bands of metal with funny squiggles on them.