That's quite different from every time you level up. I'd wager that it's still broken though. Take bladesong, extra attack, paladin's smite, and spellcasting some crazy defense and offense. (maybe not in that exact order or those exact abilities, but I think it would be quite possible to make something extremely broken)
You know Frachese, I am strongly considering that. Start with 2 levels in Paladin, then 2 levels in cleric, then another 2 in Devine soul (or radiant dragon) sorcerer, and 2 levels in celestial warlock. In all 4 of those cases, its all hail Bahamut. After level 8, who knows. Stick everything on Wisdom and Charisma, Con third, and with just enough Strength to get by. could be a giggle.
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
That's quite different from every time you level up. I'd wager that it's still broken though. Take bladesong, extra attack, paladin's smite, and spellcasting some crazy defense and offense. (maybe not in that exact order or those exact abilities, but I think it would be quite possible to make something extremely broken)
Well you're still getting a boost every level, that idea just makes sure you cant put all the boosts in one area. Like I said in post one, i'm looking for solutions to make it work.
Mind you, LOL, just the idea of every level up noting on my character sheet "one extra attack", and becoming a whirlwind of bones...
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
You know Frachese, I am strongly considering that. Start with 2 levels in Paladin, then 2 levels in cleric, then another 2 in Devine soul (or radiant dragon) sorcerer, and 2 levels in celestial warlock. In all 4 of those cases, its all hail Bahamut. After level 8, who knows. Stick everything on Wisdom and Charisma, Con third, and with just enough Strength to get by. could be a giggle.
I think this would take you back to dragging down the party. At level 8, you’ll only have 1st level spells. A couple of level 2 spell slots, sure, but only used for upcasting. You’ll need a 13 in cha, wis, and str, which is spreading pretty thin. You also won’t have a subclass and you’ll not have gotten a feat either (so those spread ability scores won’t have gotten a boost). You’ll be a mile wide and an inch deep. Your attack rolls and spell save DCs will be low and fairly ineffective. You might have enough hp and AC to work as a meat shield and absorb a couple attacks, but otherwise you won’t be much help in a fight. I guess you could cast bless a lot.
I’d suggest putting it together in the character builder. Then make a single class version of one of them and see how different it is.
All that said, it could maybe work if you have a very rp heavy campaign. Of course, if it’s rp-heavy, it kind of begs the question of why you’d do it. You can always, for example, rp the character as very religious without taking levels in cleric.
I'm just a bit confused why there's somehow the idea of making a "classless class" by -- multiclassing. Seems anathema to the idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I'm just a bit confused why there's somehow the idea of making a "classless class" by -- multiclassing. Seems anathema to the idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On the surface, sure. But If you've got 2 levels in 4 classes by level 8, and someone asks you what class you are... you're answer is going to be a lot closer to "classless" than not. I think of classless systems like those in the Elder Scrolls games. It's not that classes don't exist (or didn't, anyway, in the earlier ones), it's that you are not bound to them at all. I may be wrong, but I think that's what the OP was kind of going for. And multiclassing is exactly how DnD allows you to break the bonds of a single class. Not exactly the same, but the closest you can get.
Of course, the power problem of heavy multiclassing has already been described above...
I'm just a bit confused why there's somehow the idea of making a "classless class" by -- multiclassing. Seems anathema to the idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On the surface, sure. But If you've got 2 levels in 4 classes by level 8, and someone asks you what class you are... you're answer is going to be a lot closer to "classless" than not. I think of classless systems like those in the Elder Scrolls games. It's not that classes don't exist (or didn't, anyway, in the earlier ones), it's that you are not bound to them at all. I may be wrong, but I think that's what the OP was kind of going for. And multiclassing is exactly how DnD allows you to break the bonds of a single class. Not exactly the same, but the closest you can get.
Of course, the power problem of heavy multiclassing has already been described above...
I guess this is just an example of how my brain works oddly.
To me "classless" means the answer to "what class are you?" would be "I don't have one", instead of "I'm a multiclass of [list of classes]".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But I think I get what you mean.
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I'm pretty unclear what the OP actually wants, because "I start out completely unformed and gradually become more defined as I level up" isn't the way classless systems work either.
Well I guess the commonality between being classless, and picking a little of every class, is "I'm not being very specific", heh heh.
This comes back to the character I was rolling up in the first post. His name I decided was Jagged Fraey. He's half satyr and half minotaur, but he got the bottom half of the classic Greek minotaur, and the top half of the Satyr. So he looks totally human, but with horns. In the notes I made, he was found as a baby next to a northern barbarian tribe with a note that said "don't eat me". The day he accidentally burned down the chiefs stash of adult magazines, the chief was deposed (with an axe), and he was asked to 'Go forth an multiply, and don't come back".
I used 'Custom lineage', so he got darkvision and a bonus talent, and that's about it. Anyway, then I rolled stats (best 3 from 4D6), and I got 9/10/18/17/14/14. With level 1 adjustment, I quickly realised, gets me 2x10's, 2x14, and 2x18's.
Thats when I stopped dead when picking a class. I tried Barbarian, didnt feel right, then Mechanist, and that felt useless, and I've tried too many sorcerers lately. Thats when I made this thread.
What you want is possible, it just doesn't work well in D&D.
It sounds like you might like a game built on Modiphius' 2d20 system, especially one with rules for "Creation in Play". If you like Star Trek, their Star Trek Adventures 2E system has a reasonably large base of GMs and players, is classless, has "Creation in Play" rules, and has frequent "milestones" where you're free to select from a wide range of improvements to your character. There are also other games built on their 2d20 system if Star Trek isn't your cup of tea.
5e also isn't the only D&D out there. If what you want to do used to be possible back when you played 2E, there are still people out there playing 2E now. Most of the older editions have die-hard loyalists out there playing them.
If you just need to make the character fit the D&D 5e framework, Jagged Fraey sounds like a rogue/bard multi-class. That's about as jack-of-all-trades as you can get, but by using only two classes you keep the build viable. Mechanically, a rogue will benefit from the CHA of a bard, a bard will benefit from the DEX of a rogue, and you'll be amazing at skill checks. Roleplay-wise, rogue and bard are both professions you can kind of fall into without specific training or upbringing, and both are known for being people who kind of do a bit of everything, so they fit well for a character whose class identity is not having a class identity.
A bard is not always a musician, just some sort of entertainer. A rogue is not always a thief or an assassin, just someone who has acquired an interesting skillset and has a flexible relationship with the law. (The last part isn't even a requirement - you could have a lawful good rogue who learned to pick locks because they think it's a fascinating hobby.)
If your goal is to build a specific character concept, class is just a label. At one point the character Artemis Entreri from the Drizzt novels was supposed to be killed off because D&D was eliminating assassins as a character option. The author, R.A. Salvatore, saved the character by insisting he was "not an assassin, he's a fighter-thief who kills people for money". Readers of the novels won't be able to tell when Entreri underwent this "change" because it made no difference in the actual character. If your character just is whatever he is, you can pick a class or combination of classes that gives the right abilities and then completely ignore the name of the class when it comes to roleplay.
Also, "reskinning" is a thing. Custom lingeage is one way to do a half-satyr/half-minotaur, but not the only way. If you prefer you could pick a race that you think represents your character's abilities, then be that race on your character sheet but a half-satyr/half-minotaur for roleplay purposes.
Final thought: If you're on Reddit, check out the 3d6 subreddit. Whatever your character concept, there is someone there who can turn it into a working, playable build. If you say “last in his class at wizard school and afraid to use his magic” they don’t say ”that won’t work”, they start debating wild magic barbarian vs. arcane trickster rogue vs. X with a two-level dip in Y. And whatever they come up with will work surprisingly well.
One more idea: There is a new playtest class, The Psion.
If your character accidentally ignited a stash of adult magazines, that might have been the first accidental manifestation of his psionic abilities. The magazines made his brain overheat, then... adolescence must have been a very awkward time for him.
I agree with the rest, your best bet is to either make a warlock or a fighter. Both of those classes are highly customizable but still align with the expected "milestones" in 5e. The problem with a custom class is kind of the same problem as Moon Druid Wildshaping, in that it would be very difficult to ensure the jumps in power properly align with the game's expectation. 5e has a very clear jump in power at level 5 with extra attack OR 3rd level spells for essentially every class, and then most classes also get a jump in power ~level 10/11 (this is most obvious for Fighter, Warlock, Paladin, Cleric)
Mind you, I did get a shudder at the thought of going back to 2e. Loved the game, but THAC0, please never again.
(on a side note, I gave Jagged Fraey "Fey Touched" and "Shadow Touched" as initial talents. Misty step and invisibility, disguise self and charm person. On a starting CHA of 20, he's going to be a womanising scoundrel)
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When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
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That's quite different from every time you level up. I'd wager that it's still broken though. Take bladesong, extra attack, paladin's smite, and spellcasting some crazy defense and offense. (maybe not in that exact order or those exact abilities, but I think it would be quite possible to make something extremely broken)
You know Frachese, I am strongly considering that. Start with 2 levels in Paladin, then 2 levels in cleric, then another 2 in Devine soul (or radiant dragon) sorcerer, and 2 levels in celestial warlock. In all 4 of those cases, its all hail Bahamut. After level 8, who knows. Stick everything on Wisdom and Charisma, Con third, and with just enough Strength to get by. could be a giggle.
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
Well you're still getting a boost every level, that idea just makes sure you cant put all the boosts in one area. Like I said in post one, i'm looking for solutions to make it work.
Mind you, LOL, just the idea of every level up noting on my character sheet "one extra attack", and becoming a whirlwind of bones...
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
I think this would take you back to dragging down the party. At level 8, you’ll only have 1st level spells. A couple of level 2 spell slots, sure, but only used for upcasting. You’ll need a 13 in cha, wis, and str, which is spreading pretty thin. You also won’t have a subclass and you’ll not have gotten a feat either (so those spread ability scores won’t have gotten a boost). You’ll be a mile wide and an inch deep. Your attack rolls and spell save DCs will be low and fairly ineffective. You might have enough hp and AC to work as a meat shield and absorb a couple attacks, but otherwise you won’t be much help in a fight. I guess you could cast bless a lot.
I’d suggest putting it together in the character builder. Then make a single class version of one of them and see how different it is.
All that said, it could maybe work if you have a very rp heavy campaign. Of course, if it’s rp-heavy, it kind of begs the question of why you’d do it. You can always, for example, rp the character as very religious without taking levels in cleric.
I'm just a bit confused why there's somehow the idea of making a "classless class" by -- multiclassing. Seems anathema to the idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
On the surface, sure. But If you've got 2 levels in 4 classes by level 8, and someone asks you what class you are... you're answer is going to be a lot closer to "classless" than not. I think of classless systems like those in the Elder Scrolls games. It's not that classes don't exist (or didn't, anyway, in the earlier ones), it's that you are not bound to them at all. I may be wrong, but I think that's what the OP was kind of going for. And multiclassing is exactly how DnD allows you to break the bonds of a single class. Not exactly the same, but the closest you can get.
Of course, the power problem of heavy multiclassing has already been described above...
I guess this is just an example of how my brain works oddly.
To me "classless" means the answer to "what class are you?" would be "I don't have one", instead of "I'm a multiclass of [list of classes]".
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But I think I get what you mean.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I'm pretty unclear what the OP actually wants, because "I start out completely unformed and gradually become more defined as I level up" isn't the way classless systems work either.
Well I guess the commonality between being classless, and picking a little of every class, is "I'm not being very specific", heh heh.
This comes back to the character I was rolling up in the first post. His name I decided was Jagged Fraey. He's half satyr and half minotaur, but he got the bottom half of the classic Greek minotaur, and the top half of the Satyr. So he looks totally human, but with horns. In the notes I made, he was found as a baby next to a northern barbarian tribe with a note that said "don't eat me". The day he accidentally burned down the chiefs stash of adult magazines, the chief was deposed (with an axe), and he was asked to 'Go forth an multiply, and don't come back".
I used 'Custom lineage', so he got darkvision and a bonus talent, and that's about it. Anyway, then I rolled stats (best 3 from 4D6), and I got 9/10/18/17/14/14. With level 1 adjustment, I quickly realised, gets me 2x10's, 2x14, and 2x18's.
Thats when I stopped dead when picking a class. I tried Barbarian, didnt feel right, then Mechanist, and that felt useless, and I've tried too many sorcerers lately. Thats when I made this thread.
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.
What you want is possible, it just doesn't work well in D&D.
It sounds like you might like a game built on Modiphius' 2d20 system, especially one with rules for "Creation in Play". If you like Star Trek, their Star Trek Adventures 2E system has a reasonably large base of GMs and players, is classless, has "Creation in Play" rules, and has frequent "milestones" where you're free to select from a wide range of improvements to your character. There are also other games built on their 2d20 system if Star Trek isn't your cup of tea.
5e also isn't the only D&D out there. If what you want to do used to be possible back when you played 2E, there are still people out there playing 2E now. Most of the older editions have die-hard loyalists out there playing them.
If you just need to make the character fit the D&D 5e framework, Jagged Fraey sounds like a rogue/bard multi-class. That's about as jack-of-all-trades as you can get, but by using only two classes you keep the build viable. Mechanically, a rogue will benefit from the CHA of a bard, a bard will benefit from the DEX of a rogue, and you'll be amazing at skill checks. Roleplay-wise, rogue and bard are both professions you can kind of fall into without specific training or upbringing, and both are known for being people who kind of do a bit of everything, so they fit well for a character whose class identity is not having a class identity.
A bard is not always a musician, just some sort of entertainer. A rogue is not always a thief or an assassin, just someone who has acquired an interesting skillset and has a flexible relationship with the law. (The last part isn't even a requirement - you could have a lawful good rogue who learned to pick locks because they think it's a fascinating hobby.)
If your goal is to build a specific character concept, class is just a label. At one point the character Artemis Entreri from the Drizzt novels was supposed to be killed off because D&D was eliminating assassins as a character option. The author, R.A. Salvatore, saved the character by insisting he was "not an assassin, he's a fighter-thief who kills people for money". Readers of the novels won't be able to tell when Entreri underwent this "change" because it made no difference in the actual character. If your character just is whatever he is, you can pick a class or combination of classes that gives the right abilities and then completely ignore the name of the class when it comes to roleplay.
Also, "reskinning" is a thing. Custom lingeage is one way to do a half-satyr/half-minotaur, but not the only way. If you prefer you could pick a race that you think represents your character's abilities, then be that race on your character sheet but a half-satyr/half-minotaur for roleplay purposes.
Final thought: If you're on Reddit, check out the 3d6 subreddit. Whatever your character concept, there is someone there who can turn it into a working, playable build. If you say “last in his class at wizard school and afraid to use his magic” they don’t say ”that won’t work”, they start debating wild magic barbarian vs. arcane trickster rogue vs. X with a two-level dip in Y. And whatever they come up with will work surprisingly well.
One more idea: There is a new playtest class, The Psion.
If your character accidentally ignited a stash of adult magazines, that might have been the first accidental manifestation of his psionic abilities. The magazines made his brain overheat, then... adolescence must have been a very awkward time for him.
I agree with the rest, your best bet is to either make a warlock or a fighter. Both of those classes are highly customizable but still align with the expected "milestones" in 5e. The problem with a custom class is kind of the same problem as Moon Druid Wildshaping, in that it would be very difficult to ensure the jumps in power properly align with the game's expectation. 5e has a very clear jump in power at level 5 with extra attack OR 3rd level spells for essentially every class, and then most classes also get a jump in power ~level 10/11 (this is most obvious for Fighter, Warlock, Paladin, Cleric)
Thanks for the input folks.
Mind you, I did get a shudder at the thought of going back to 2e. Loved the game, but THAC0, please never again.
(on a side note, I gave Jagged Fraey "Fey Touched" and "Shadow Touched" as initial talents. Misty step and invisibility, disguise self and charm person. On a starting CHA of 20, he's going to be a womanising scoundrel)
When faced with an issue, most people would rather be negative than find a solution.