I have an idea for an antagonist (a Fathomless warlock) of this campaign I'm DMing, but I plan to scale the level of the warlock as the players level up also. Does anyone have an easy way to calculate the challenge rating of such a warlock? I looked in the "NPC challenge rating" part of the DMG, but it was altogether not helpful.
This is one of the reasons that many people discourage using PC classes as a template for NPCs/Monsters. In principle a PC CR should be 1/4 their level, so a Level 20 Warlock would be CR 5, however, they'll have access to spells that throw that calculus out of wack.
Instead, you might consider finding an existing monster in the appropriate CR range, and then reskinning it as a "Warlock". Give it abilities that mirror Warlock abilities, but let the damage and HP scale like a monster. That makes the paperwork easier to handle.
However, you could also look at monsters like the Archdruid, Arcanaloth, and such for how the designers score monsters with spellcaster levels.
You will just have to run each level through the CR calculations and see what you get. Level and CR are 2 systems that don't translate very well (it isn't even clear at what combat difficulty they are considered evenly matched).
(I know it's a bit late but I just started a campaign with a warlock BBEG) It depends, but I'd personally recommend (assuming it's level 20) around CR 20-25, depending what abilities your party has and you use as the BBEG. I did the character as CR 25, level 20 warlock with a staff of power against my level 16 party. If it was a higher-level party than that, however, I'd recommend (assuming you have a party of 6 level-20 characters with the usual magic items and other trinkets) giving a 7 total spell slot total, giving them 6th level spells instead of 5th level, 2 mystic arcanum instead of 1 and giving them 12 total invocations. I know it's late-game but I hope it still helps!
This is one of the reasons that many people discourage using PC classes as a template for NPCs/Monsters. In principle a PC CR should be 1/4 their level, so a Level 20 Warlock would be CR 5, however, they'll have access to spells that throw that calculus out of wack.
Instead, you might consider finding an existing monster in the appropriate CR range, and then reskinning it as a "Warlock". Give it abilities that mirror Warlock abilities, but let the damage and HP scale like a monster. That makes the paperwork easier to handle.
However, you could also look at monsters like the Archdruid, Arcanaloth, and such for how the designers score monsters with spellcaster levels.
Looking at those it should be somewhere closer to 35% to 45%.
I usually base it off of comparable PB, and then double the “PC’s” hit dice & Con bonus to HP (basically in keeping with the Hit Dice) when converting it to a monster. So I end up with a level 7-8 PC converting to roughly CR 5ish with 14-16 Hit Dice, a 16th level PC converting to roughly CR 11-13ish (give or take) with 32 hit dice.
Typically I see CR ranges in between 1/3 and 1/2 the level when I actually calculate them out. Usually a PC has high offensive CR, and low/mid defensive CR (due to relatively low hitpoints and a lack of significant resistances/immunities).
Also, a lot of PC abilities aren't relevant to combat scenarios , and others aren't good choices for a creature that, on average, will only last 2-3 rounds in a fight. Streamlining a PC character sheet is how I make all my NPC monsters with class levels; just pick the most powerful/relevant class and subclass abilities and eschew the rest.
This is one of the reasons that many people discourage using PC classes as a template for NPCs/Monsters. In principle a PC CR should be 1/4 their level, so a Level 20 Warlock would be CR 5, however, they'll have access to spells that throw that calculus out of wack.
Instead, you might consider finding an existing monster in the appropriate CR range, and then reskinning it as a "Warlock". Give it abilities that mirror Warlock abilities, but let the damage and HP scale like a monster. That makes the paperwork easier to handle.
However, you could also look at monsters like the Archdruid, Arcanaloth, and such for how the designers score monsters with spellcaster levels.
Looking at those it should be somewhere closer to 35% to 45%.
I usually base it off of comparable PB, and then double the “PC’s” hit dice & Con bonus to HP (basically in keeping with the Hit Dice) when converting it to a monster. So I end up with a level 7-8 PC converting to roughly CR 5ish with 14-16 Hit Dice, a 16th level PC converting to roughly CR 11-13ish (give or take) with 32 hit dice.
The number comes from the fact that a single CR5 monster is considered appropriate for 4 x Level 5 PCs, I think. But of course that would be a Medium encounter. If you put 4 x level 5 PCs against their exact duplicates, the encounter wouldn't be Medium, it would be beyond Deadly and likely leave all but one combatant dead.
I calculate NPCs as 1/2 their level in terms of CR, and usually double their hit points so they don't just die on the first turn of combat.
I actually just went through some of my recent PC-Monster conversions and used the Average CR method in the DMG and so far my calculations corresponded. A 7th level fighter came in at CR 5 as I expected, a 5th level rogue came in at CR 4 (just below the PB by 1 CR).
The 16th level Barbarian came in at CR 13, although I forgot to mention the Legendary Actions to up the potential damage output. But if you’re CR 13 and don’t have legendary actions then you wouldn’t have been a PC anyway. (Boss Monsters need them to keep up with the party.) So that extra 3(1d10+8) plus the doubled hit dice (32d8+92) HP instead of 16d12+64 That the PC has made the CR come out right. That’s at AC 20 & +9 attack modifier.
I have an idea for an antagonist (a Fathomless warlock) of this campaign I'm DMing, but I plan to scale the level of the warlock as the players level up also. Does anyone have an easy way to calculate the challenge rating of such a warlock? I looked in the "NPC challenge rating" part of the DMG, but it was altogether not helpful.
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This is one of the reasons that many people discourage using PC classes as a template for NPCs/Monsters. In principle a PC CR should be 1/4 their level, so a Level 20 Warlock would be CR 5, however, they'll have access to spells that throw that calculus out of wack.
Instead, you might consider finding an existing monster in the appropriate CR range, and then reskinning it as a "Warlock". Give it abilities that mirror Warlock abilities, but let the damage and HP scale like a monster. That makes the paperwork easier to handle.
However, you could also look at monsters like the Archdruid, Arcanaloth, and such for how the designers score monsters with spellcaster levels.
You will just have to run each level through the CR calculations and see what you get. Level and CR are 2 systems that don't translate very well (it isn't even clear at what combat difficulty they are considered evenly matched).
(I know it's a bit late but I just started a campaign with a warlock BBEG) It depends, but I'd personally recommend (assuming it's level 20) around CR 20-25, depending what abilities your party has and you use as the BBEG. I did the character as CR 25, level 20 warlock with a staff of power against my level 16 party. If it was a higher-level party than that, however, I'd recommend (assuming you have a party of 6 level-20 characters with the usual magic items and other trinkets) giving a 7 total spell slot total, giving them 6th level spells instead of 5th level, 2 mystic arcanum instead of 1 and giving them 12 total invocations. I know it's late-game but I hope it still helps!
There are a few caster-y types in the various sources of monsters, such as a couple of different CR deathlocks. You could use those for comparison.
1/4?!? Where did you get that number?!?
Looking at those it should be somewhere closer to 35% to 45%.
I usually base it off of comparable PB, and then double the “PC’s” hit dice & Con bonus to HP (basically in keeping with the Hit Dice) when converting it to a monster. So I end up with a level 7-8 PC converting to roughly CR 5ish with 14-16 Hit Dice, a 16th level PC converting to roughly CR 11-13ish (give or take) with 32 hit dice.
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Typically I see CR ranges in between 1/3 and 1/2 the level when I actually calculate them out. Usually a PC has high offensive CR, and low/mid defensive CR (due to relatively low hitpoints and a lack of significant resistances/immunities).
Also, a lot of PC abilities aren't relevant to combat scenarios , and others aren't good choices for a creature that, on average, will only last 2-3 rounds in a fight. Streamlining a PC character sheet is how I make all my NPC monsters with class levels; just pick the most powerful/relevant class and subclass abilities and eschew the rest.
Like I said in the 3rd post. Level and CR are 2 different systems that don't translate into another very well.
The number comes from the fact that a single CR5 monster is considered appropriate for 4 x Level 5 PCs, I think. But of course that would be a Medium encounter. If you put 4 x level 5 PCs against their exact duplicates, the encounter wouldn't be Medium, it would be beyond Deadly and likely leave all but one combatant dead.
I calculate NPCs as 1/2 their level in terms of CR, and usually double their hit points so they don't just die on the first turn of combat.
I actually just went through some of my recent PC-Monster conversions and used the Average CR method in the DMG and so far my calculations corresponded. A 7th level fighter came in at CR 5 as I expected, a 5th level rogue came in at CR 4 (just below the PB by 1 CR).
The 16th level Barbarian came in at CR 13, although I forgot to mention the Legendary Actions to up the potential damage output. But if you’re CR 13 and don’t have legendary actions then you wouldn’t have been a PC anyway. (Boss Monsters need them to keep up with the party.) So that extra 3(1d10+8) plus the doubled hit dice (32d8+92) HP instead of 16d12+64 That the PC has made the CR come out right. That’s at AC 20 & +9 attack modifier.
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting