The long bow is (as far as l know) factually better, and crossbows are (imo) better then bows (heavy for range and damage, hand for duel wielding and or up close) But why would you use a short bow?
(is it just to give a bow option to small creatures who cant use heavy weapons?)
Shortbows are cheaper, don't require martial weapon proficiency and can be used by small creatures. Don't forget that NPCs and monsters also use the weapon tables.
The long bow is (as far as l know) factually better, and crossbows are (imo) better then bows (heavy for range and damage, hand for duel wielding and or up close) But why would you use a short bow?
(is it just to give a bow option to small creatures who cant use heavy weapons?)
Not being proficient or being small is 2 reasons, and 1 more than needed.
As for crossbows, no version can be duel wielded and can't benefit from extra attack (without a feat, etc). They deal more damage, which is good for non-martial classes like rogue or spellcasters.
IMO, the two best ranged weapons in the game are the Two bows. If you only have one attack, a crossbow is fine, but if you’re one of the other half of the characters in the game, the crossbow will limit your attacks by 50% (or more for 3rd & 4th tier fighters). Yes there is the feat, but unless your a fighter or a rogue, you likely don’t have enough ASIs to go around and having to take that feat instead of something like sharpshooter is kinda meh.
Not only that, but the longbow has the furthest range of any weapon in 5e. And the average 1 point of damage (the difference between 1d10 and 1d8) is nothing compared the the greater range and speed of the longbow.
The Hand Crossbow is fantastic if you do have the feat because with one you get the benefit of dual wielding without having to do your other hand is free to load the darned crossbow. Otherwise, my characters take crossbows because they’re cool, not because they’re good.
And if the DM uses the real world as inspiration.. you won't be able to shoot from horseback with the longbow..
Actually you can.
Not well. Composite bows were designed to provide the same power as a longbow in the compact grain of a shortbow to make it easier to switch your aim from left to right without having to raid the bow over the horse’s neck and head. Japanese longbows were also designed to be fired from horseback since the lower section is proportionally shorter and the upper section is similarly longer to make up the difference in weight. (Basically the nock point is in the lower 1/3 instead of the middle.)
So while you can fire a longbow from horseback, I would personally rule that an English style longbow would be reduced to a single attack per turn (like crossbows) unless all your targets are on the same side.
The following opinion is based off my own use of various bows over 25 years, and not based off of Game Mechanics.
A Short Bow actually makes MUCH more sense for Rogues and Rangers that are going to be moving in wooded/crowded terrain. Long Bows, and their larger arrows, are much more difficult to maneuver with in crowded terrain (and you don't want to see what happens to you're accuracy when the limb of a bow strikes an obstruction)
European Longbows make sense in open terrain when you’re on foot, and in a formation. For everything else there’s shortbows. (Unless you’re completely unskilled, and then there’s crossbows because archery takes lots of practice, especially when attempting to maintain a rate of fire.)
What most people think of when they think “longbow” is an English longbow. That got its "cred” in the latter half of the 14th century and the very beginning of the 15th century, and mostly from the French. Yes, with adequate training and practice and a competent officer the English longbowmen could fire 10 arrows per minute, or one every 6 seconds. (Take that Extra Attack! 😝) They had an unprecedented range, and they had enough power that the arrows could effectively puncture mail (nowadays known as “chainmail”) and light Plate for the vast majority of that range. When the enemy has 100 archers firing 1,000 arrows per minute with effective ranges in excess of 660 ft., then your pretty much in the same boat as Dienekes was 1,000 years earlier, fighting in the shade. In fact, 660 feet was the minimum acceptable practice range for a longbowman.
But even then, the longbow had a short lifespan of effectiveness. It wasn’t long before the perpetual arms race between offense and defense swung the other way and armor got thicker/stronger. That wasn’t overcome until crossbows black powder weapons basically made armor obsolete until someone tried to make a flat proof tire and accidentally invented Kevlar, which sucks against slow moving punctures like nails, or knives for that matter
Additionally, it only took the French about 65 years to finally concede to not charge heavy cavalry at the enemy until after the light cavalry,or at least skirmishers, had come in from the flank to disrupt the English longbow formations. (The Knights’ armor was more robust and protected them, but their horses barding not so much. The arrows shot the horses out from under them and then the knights were pinned under their dead horses. The English Knights casually walked up and stabbed them to death as easy as stabbing food with a fork. However, during that 65 years they told all of Europe about how devastating the longbows were.
In summation, the longbow was only an effective weapon in Europe for a relatively brief time, and that time ended 600 years ago. People have been using shortbows for hunting and defense for the last 60,000 uninterrupted years.
The more you know. (And knowing as they say, is half the battle.)
If you question any of what I just wrote, I invite you to research it yourself and if you find any of my statements to be in error, call them out. (I would be shocked, but I would still like to know if I misremembered my history.)
"But even then, the longbow had a short lifespan of effectiveness. It wasn’t long before the perpetual arms race between offense and defense swung the other way and armor got thicker/stronger. That wasn’t overcome until crossbows black powder weapons basically made armor obsolete until someone tried to make a flat proof tire and accidentally invented Kevlar, which sucks against slow moving punctures like nails, or knives for that matter"
You forgot the personal shield produced by a Holtzman generator, which is excellent against arrows and bolts, but not against slow moving knives or a lasgun beam.
Of course, you can but the Cost and Creation of both the composite and the asymmetrical longbow kicks the cost and skill level to create from common to uncommon. So is hard to start out with.
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Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
There's another guy here on the forums that'd like a word with you. He's annoyed that people call it chain mail, he's says it's maille, coming from french. You should perhaps ask him so you can get the last facts straight. Otherwise I enjoyed this read. I'd prefer a short bow in general I think.
The long bow is (as far as l know) factually better, and crossbows are (imo) better then bows (heavy for range and damage, hand for duel wielding and or up close) But why would you use a short bow?
(is it just to give a bow option to small creatures who cant use heavy weapons?)
Depends on who you are, but generally shortbows have no use-case - a rogue will always prefer a light crossbow, and generally speaking any class that can provide extra attack (so loading matters) can also provide at least one martial weapon proficiency. But if you've figured out a way to get extra attack while remaining stuck with simple weapon proficiency and you're interested in ranged weapons, shortbows will outperform darts or slings.
It simply boils down to proficiency limitations and style. Not much else to say. Same deal with spear and trident.
There's literally no excuse for a trident - at least shortbows with arrows weigh less than light crossbows with bolts, and don't have loading. Tridents cost more gp and more pounds of carrying capacity than spears, on top of being harder to wield - unless someone is deliberately spending their feats incompetently, there's no way to be proficient in a trident but not a spear. Anyone wielding a trident deserves nothing but ridicule.
The long bow is (as far as l know) factually better, and crossbows are (imo) better then bows (heavy for range and damage, hand for duel wielding and or up close) But why would you use a short bow?
(is it just to give a bow option to small creatures who cant use heavy weapons?)
Shortbows are cheaper, don't require martial weapon proficiency and can be used by small creatures. Don't forget that NPCs and monsters also use the weapon tables.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
And if the DM uses the real world as inspiration.. you won't be able to shoot from horseback with the longbow..
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
Rogues also just don’t have Longbow proficiency, and as previously mentioned, it gives a ranged option that isn’t a crossbow.
Not being proficient or being small is 2 reasons, and 1 more than needed.
As for crossbows, no version can be duel wielded and can't benefit from extra attack (without a feat, etc). They deal more damage, which is good for non-martial classes like rogue or spellcasters.
The longbow is for combat, the shortbow is for hunting.
If you want to eat, you want a shortbow.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
IMO, the two best ranged weapons in the game are the Two bows. If you only have one attack, a crossbow is fine, but if you’re one of the other half of the characters in the game, the crossbow will limit your attacks by 50% (or more for 3rd & 4th tier fighters). Yes there is the feat, but unless your a fighter or a rogue, you likely don’t have enough ASIs to go around and having to take that feat instead of something like sharpshooter is kinda meh.
Not only that, but the longbow has the furthest range of any weapon in 5e. And the average 1 point of damage (the difference between 1d10 and 1d8) is nothing compared the the greater range and speed of the longbow.
The Hand Crossbow is fantastic if you do have the feat because with one you get the benefit of dual wielding without having to do your other hand is free to load the darned crossbow. Otherwise, my characters take crossbows because they’re cool, not because they’re good.
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Actually you can.
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Not well. Composite bows were designed to provide the same power as a longbow in the compact grain of a shortbow to make it easier to switch your aim from left to right without having to raid the bow over the horse’s neck and head. Japanese longbows were also designed to be fired from horseback since the lower section is proportionally shorter and the upper section is similarly longer to make up the difference in weight. (Basically the nock point is in the lower 1/3 instead of the middle.)
So while you can fire a longbow from horseback, I would personally rule that an English style longbow would be reduced to a single attack per turn (like crossbows) unless all your targets are on the same side.
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The following opinion is based off my own use of various bows over 25 years, and not based off of Game Mechanics.
A Short Bow actually makes MUCH more sense for Rogues and Rangers that are going to be moving in wooded/crowded terrain. Long Bows, and their larger arrows, are much more difficult to maneuver with in crowded terrain (and you don't want to see what happens to you're accuracy when the limb of a bow strikes an obstruction)
What they said. 👆
European Longbows make sense in open terrain when you’re on foot, and in a formation. For everything else there’s shortbows. (Unless you’re completely unskilled, and then there’s crossbows because archery takes lots of practice, especially when attempting to maintain a rate of fire.)
What most people think of when they think “longbow” is an English longbow. That got its "cred” in the latter half of the 14th century and the very beginning of the 15th century, and mostly from the French. Yes, with adequate training and practice and a competent officer the English longbowmen could fire 10 arrows per minute, or one every 6 seconds. (Take that Extra Attack! 😝) They had an unprecedented range, and they had enough power that the arrows could effectively puncture mail (nowadays known as “chainmail”) and light Plate for the vast majority of that range. When the enemy has 100 archers firing 1,000 arrows per minute with effective ranges in excess of 660 ft., then your pretty much in the same boat as Dienekes was 1,000 years earlier, fighting in the shade. In fact, 660 feet was the minimum acceptable practice range for a longbowman.
But even then, the longbow had a short lifespan of effectiveness. It wasn’t long before the perpetual arms race between offense and defense swung the other way and armor got thicker/stronger. That wasn’t overcome until crossbows black powder weapons basically made armor obsolete until someone tried to make a flat proof tire and accidentally invented Kevlar, which sucks against slow moving punctures like nails, or knives for that matter
Additionally, it only took the French about 65 years to finally concede to not charge heavy cavalry at the enemy until after the light cavalry,or at least skirmishers, had come in from the flank to disrupt the English longbow formations. (The Knights’ armor was more robust and protected them, but their horses barding not so much. The arrows shot the horses out from under them and then the knights were pinned under their dead horses. The English Knights casually walked up and stabbed them to death as easy as stabbing food with a fork. However, during that 65 years they told all of Europe about how devastating the longbows were.
In summation, the longbow was only an effective weapon in Europe for a relatively brief time, and that time ended 600 years ago. People have been using shortbows for hunting and defense for the last 60,000 uninterrupted years.
The more you know. (And knowing as they say, is half the battle.)
If you question any of what I just wrote, I invite you to research it yourself and if you find any of my statements to be in error, call them out. (I would be shocked, but I would still like to know if I misremembered my history.)
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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"But even then, the longbow had a short lifespan of effectiveness. It wasn’t long before the perpetual arms race between offense and defense swung the other way and armor got thicker/stronger. That wasn’t overcome until crossbows black powder weapons basically made armor obsolete until someone tried to make a flat proof tire and accidentally invented Kevlar, which sucks against slow moving punctures like nails, or knives for that matter"
You forgot the personal shield produced by a Holtzman generator, which is excellent against arrows and bolts, but not against slow moving knives or a lasgun beam.
Same with monks. Monks don't have Longbow proficiency, but they do have shortbow.
The effects of using a lasgun against shield generators is catastrophic.
Sneak attack + theme?
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Of course, you can but the Cost and Creation of both the composite and the asymmetrical longbow kicks the cost and skill level to create from common to uncommon.
So is hard to start out with.
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
Good stuff.
There's another guy here on the forums that'd like a word with you. He's annoyed that people call it chain mail, he's says it's maille, coming from french. You should perhaps ask him so you can get the last facts straight. Otherwise I enjoyed this read. I'd prefer a short bow in general I think.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Depends on who you are, but generally shortbows have no use-case - a rogue will always prefer a light crossbow, and generally speaking any class that can provide extra attack (so loading matters) can also provide at least one martial weapon proficiency. But if you've figured out a way to get extra attack while remaining stuck with simple weapon proficiency and you're interested in ranged weapons, shortbows will outperform darts or slings.
It simply boils down to proficiency limitations and style. Not much else to say. Same deal with spear and trident.
There's literally no excuse for a trident - at least shortbows with arrows weigh less than light crossbows with bolts, and don't have loading. Tridents cost more gp and more pounds of carrying capacity than spears, on top of being harder to wield - unless someone is deliberately spending their feats incompetently, there's no way to be proficient in a trident but not a spear. Anyone wielding a trident deserves nothing but ridicule.