When the attacker is not underwater but the target is, such as when spearfishing or whaling, how does this work?
I think the RAI for melee combat is clear: the rules only apply if the attacker is underwater. Reach is immaterial - a bugbear with a whip attacking a fish 15 feet underwater does not suffer disadvantage if the bugbear is in a canoe above the water. After all, why should the bugbear's swim speed or lack thereof matter if the bugbear is not underwater?
Ranged combat, however, makes no mention of attackers having a swim speed, so I don't know how to parse the rule. It reads to me like the rules apply if at least one of the attacker or target is underwater, but I freely admit I'm applying an awful lot of interpretation there.
I’d probably just use the ranged combat rules you noted above. Making the normal range become the max range seems about right. Water will make whatever you are shooting or throwing slow down much quicker than air will. Though I’m not sure I’d agree on your melee interpretation. A whip is likely to pretty much bounce off the surface, not be able to keep moving through the water with enough energy to do damage. The weapons listed as exceptions are because they are thrusting weapons. Other weapons will (generally) move in an arc where the water will really sap the oomph from the attack. I can see your argument from a RAW standpoint, but personally I’d rule that if either attacker or target is underwater, the rules would apply.
I’d probably just use the ranged combat rules you noted above. Making the normal range become the max range seems about right. Water will make whatever you are shooting or throwing slow down much quicker than air will. Though I’m not sure I’d agree on your melee interpretation. A whip is likely to pretty much bounce off the surface, not be able to keep moving through the water with enough energy to do damage. The weapons listed as exceptions are because they are thrusting weapons. Other weapons will (generally) move in an arc where the water will really sap the oomph from the attack. I can see your argument from a RAW standpoint, but personally I’d rule that if either attacker or target is underwater, the rules would apply.
So you're saying an attacker on a canoe with a swim speed should be better with a whip than one without a swim speed? Say, a sea elf, or a triton.
Huh. I mean, if you have a swim speed, not sure if you’d actually bother with a canoe, but I guess we consider this for argument’s sake. That’s a good question. maybe, yes? swim speed in a canoe would not have problems. I could see that representing that someone with a swim speed likely having generally more experience in dealing with fighting in the water, and therefore knowing how to use gear that would be difficult for non-native swimmers. .
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Here are the rules for underwater combat.
When the attacker is not underwater but the target is, such as when spearfishing or whaling, how does this work?
I think the RAI for melee combat is clear: the rules only apply if the attacker is underwater. Reach is immaterial - a bugbear with a whip attacking a fish 15 feet underwater does not suffer disadvantage if the bugbear is in a canoe above the water. After all, why should the bugbear's swim speed or lack thereof matter if the bugbear is not underwater?
Ranged combat, however, makes no mention of attackers having a swim speed, so I don't know how to parse the rule. It reads to me like the rules apply if at least one of the attacker or target is underwater, but I freely admit I'm applying an awful lot of interpretation there.
Does anyone know how this is intended to work?
I’d probably just use the ranged combat rules you noted above. Making the normal range become the max range seems about right. Water will make whatever you are shooting or throwing slow down much quicker than air will.
Though I’m not sure I’d agree on your melee interpretation. A whip is likely to pretty much bounce off the surface, not be able to keep moving through the water with enough energy to do damage. The weapons listed as exceptions are because they are thrusting weapons. Other weapons will (generally) move in an arc where the water will really sap the oomph from the attack. I can see your argument from a RAW standpoint, but personally I’d rule that if either attacker or target is underwater, the rules would apply.
So you're saying an attacker on a canoe with a swim speed should be better with a whip than one without a swim speed? Say, a sea elf, or a triton.
Huh. I mean, if you have a swim speed, not sure if you’d actually bother with a canoe, but I guess we consider this for argument’s sake. That’s a good question. maybe, yes? swim speed in a canoe would not have problems. I could see that representing that someone with a swim speed likely having generally more experience in dealing with fighting in the water, and therefore knowing how to use gear that would be difficult for non-native swimmers.
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