Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
Another interesting angle to consider is whether or not the Battle Master's Brace Maneuver triggers when a creature teleports into their reach. This should essentially work the exact same way as the effect of the Polearm Master feat , but without exempting teleportation from triggering the effect. Personally, I'd say teleportation into reach triggers the Brace reaction.
Teleportation definitly triggers Brace as you move and enter a space within the Fighter's reach when you do.
Another interesting angle to consider is whether or not the Battle Master's Brace Maneuver triggers when a creature teleports into their reach. This should essentially work the exact same way as the effect of the Polearm Master feat , but without exempting teleportation from triggering the effect. Personally, I'd say teleportation into reach triggers the Brace reaction.
Teleportation definitly triggers Brace as you move and enter a space within the Fighter's reach when you do.
Entering a space is not the same as moving into that space. Movement, speed, is not expended.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Wow, you make one little joke about time working differently in the Feywild... y'all are awesome, and I mean that sincerely
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
Off the top of my head I can't think of any spells/items that block all instances of teleportation but no instances of plane shifting (and vice versa). However spells such as Wall of Force and Temple of the Gods affect specific usages of plane shifting without affecting teleportation in the same manner (unless ethereal travel is not included in the plane shifting category).
Looking past spells/items, some game effects do make a practical distinction between teleportation and plane shifting, such as the Opportunity Attack mechanic.
Quote from iconarising>> I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Teleportation and plane shifting are never clearly defined in the rules, that is correct. However the game explicitly makes a distinction between the two terms on numerous occasions (see quindraco's examples above), and they clearly have a different effect (transport to different types of locations as you say).
Out of curiosity, would you grant an attack in the following situations, assuming the target uses teleportation to move:
The character has Polearm Master and the target teleports into your reach?
The character has the Brace feature instead of the Polearm Master feat?
The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves into its reach"?
Bonus question: The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves out of its reach"?
Brace
When a creature you can see moves into the reach you have with the melee weapon you’re wielding, you can use your reaction to expend one superiority die and make one attack against the creature, using that weapon. If the attack hits, add the superiority die to the weapon’s damage roll.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
Private Sanctum doesn't affect both. Private Sanctum CAN affect both, one, the other, or neither, at your leisure.
Private Sanctum actually shows that there is a distinction being made because they're 2 different options being offered.
When you cast the spell, you decide what sort of security the spell provides, choosing any or all of the following properties:
Sound can't pass through the barrier at the edge of the warded area.
The barrier of the warded area appears dark and foggy, preventing vision (including darkvision) through it.
Sensors created by divination spells can't appear inside the protected area or pass through the barrier at its perimeter.
Creatures in the area can't be targeted by divination spells.
Nothing can teleport into or out of the warded area.
Planar travel is blocked within the warded area.
If they were indistinguishable or mechanically the same, that'd only be one line that blocked both teleportation and planar travel. Because if teleportation does rely on planer travel, then blocking just planar travel would also block teleportation. But this isn't the case. You can block ONLY planar travel and this still allows teleportation into the area.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
Private Sanctum doesn't affect both. Private Sanctum CAN affect both, one, the other, or neither, at your leisure.
Private Sanctum actually shows that there is a distinction being made because they're 2 different options being offered.
When you cast the spell, you decide what sort of security the spell provides, choosing any or all of the following properties:
Sound can't pass through the barrier at the edge of the warded area.
The barrier of the warded area appears dark and foggy, preventing vision (including darkvision) through it.
Sensors created by divination spells can't appear inside the protected area or pass through the barrier at its perimeter.
Creatures in the area can't be targeted by divination spells.
Nothing can teleport into or out of the warded area.
Planar travel is blocked within the warded area.
If they were indistinguishable or mechanically the same, that'd only be one line that blocked both teleportation and planar travel. Because if teleportation does rely on planer travel, then blocking just planar travel would also block teleportation. But this isn't the case. You can block ONLY planar travel and this still allows teleportation into the area.
Ah, excellent point. I missed that you could pick either without picking the other, with Private Sanctum. You're 100% right, this means Private Sanctum is the example I was looking for.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
Off the top of my head I can't think of any spells/items that block all instances of teleportation but no instances of plane shifting (and vice versa). However spells such as Wall of Force and Temple of the Gods affect specific usages of plane shifting without affecting teleportation in the same manner (unless ethereal travel is not included in the plane shifting category).
ethereal travel (moving around in the ethereal plane) is blocked by the spell, but that is not plane shifting. Plane shifting would only include the actual transfer to the ethereal from the material…WoF is irrelevant to that since you aren’t moving through space during the shift
Looking past spells/items, some game effects do make a practical distinction between teleportation and plane shifting, such as the Opportunity Attack mechanic.
Quote from iconarising>> I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Teleportation and plane shifting are never clearly defined in the rules, that is correct. However the game explicitly makes a distinction between the two terms on numerous occasions (see quindraco's examples above), and they clearly have a different effect (transport to different types of locations as you say).
Out of curiosity, would you grant an attack in the following situations, assuming the target uses teleportation to move:
The character has Polearm Master and the target teleports into your reach
no, that’s an Opportunity Attack from which teleportation is exempted
The character has the Brace feature instead of the Polearm Master feat?
this isn’t an OA, so it would trigger
The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves into its reach"?
this would trigger, see above
Bonus question: The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves out of its reach"?
while I don’t see why one would do this, I’d say teleporting out would not trigger the attack. I say this because normal reactions occur after the trigger. OAs provide an exception because they say they occur just before the creature leaves and not after, but a regular reaction attack would not have that stipulation. If you are teleporting out, you aren’t there after the trigger occurs so the attack would never connect with you
Brace
When a creature you can see moves into the reach you have with the melee weapon you’re wielding, you can use your reaction to expend one superiority die and make one attack against the creature, using that weapon. If the attack hits, add the superiority die to the weapon’s damage roll.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
Antimagic Field affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Magical Travel").
I didn't want to expand my search to every spell in the game, but there was one evocation spell that immediately came to mind, so I checked it, so I'll list it here.
Hallow affects both, and includes affecting both under the same subheading ("Extradimensional Interference").
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
Off the top of my head I can't think of any spells/items that block all instances of teleportation but no instances of plane shifting (and vice versa). However spells such as Wall of Force and Temple of the Gods affect specific usages of plane shifting without affecting teleportation in the same manner (unless ethereal travel is not included in the plane shifting category).
ethereal travel (moving around in the ethereal plane) is blocked by the spell, but that is not plane shifting. Plane shifting would only include the actual transfer to the ethereal from the material…WoF is irrelevant to that since you aren’t moving through space during the shift
Looking past spells/items, some game effects do make a practical distinction between teleportation and plane shifting, such as the Opportunity Attack mechanic.
Quote from iconarising>> I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Teleportation and plane shifting are never clearly defined in the rules, that is correct. However the game explicitly makes a distinction between the two terms on numerous occasions (see quindraco's examples above), and they clearly have a different effect (transport to different types of locations as you say).
Out of curiosity, would you grant an attack in the following situations, assuming the target uses teleportation to move:
The character has Polearm Master and the target teleports into your reach
no, that’s an Opportunity Attack from which teleportation is exempted
The character has the Brace feature instead of the Polearm Master feat?
this isn’t an OA, so it would trigger
The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves into its reach"?
this would trigger, see above
Bonus question: The character has readied an action to attack "a creature that moves out of its reach"?
while I don’t see why one would do this, I’d say teleporting out would not trigger the attack. I say this because normal reactions occur after the trigger. OAs provide an exception because they say they occur just before the creature leaves and not after, but a regular reaction attack would not have that stipulation. If you are teleporting out, you aren’t there after the trigger occurs so the attack would never connect with you
Brace
When a creature you can see moves into the reach you have with the melee weapon you’re wielding, you can use your reaction to expend one superiority die and make one attack against the creature, using that weapon. If the attack hits, add the superiority die to the weapon’s damage roll.
You rule scenario 1 (opportunity attack) and 3 (ready action)differently, and understandably so. However your reasoning for your ruling is because "teleportation" is exempted. How then would you rule if, instead of teleporting, a character plane shifted into your reach? Would you rule similarly despite OA only exempting teleportation? (I totally understand why you would do so).
You rule scenario 1 (opportunity attack) and 3 (ready action)differently, and understandably so. However your reasoning for your ruling is because "teleportation" is exempted. How then would you rule if, instead of teleporting, a character plane shifted into your reach? Would you rule similarly despite OA only exempting teleportation? (I totally understand why you would do so).
Similarly, the conjuration of creatures from Summon/Conjure spells.
Example:
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and appear in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You rule scenario 1 (opportunity attack) and 3 (ready action)differently, and understandably so. However your reasoning for your ruling is because "teleportation" is exempted. How then would you rule if, instead of teleporting, a character plane shifted into your reach? Would you rule similarly despite OA only exempting teleportation? (I totally understand why you would do so).
I consider the mechanics of plane shifting and teleportation (ie, departure and arrival; to me the only difference in the two spells/effects is possible destinations) to be similar enough that if teleportation is an exclusion from a rule, plane shifting would be too (the only exception being rules about the "where" of teleporting/plane shifting, which have to be separated again because the destinations can differ). Until guidance is given further defining either of those two terms, I see no reason why to do otherwise. So for scenario 1, either teleportation or plane shifting would be exempt at my table. both would trigger for scenario 3.
I will note that scenario 3 actually happened with plane shifting in one of the games I DM 3 sessions ago. The party successfully banished the BBEG of the encounter (after having killed all his minions), and lined up reaction attacks for when he returned to the plane. They wound up killing him in that round (on about the 9th reaction out of 10; each player controlled a PC and an NPC). It was fun to narrate.
You rule scenario 1 (opportunity attack) and 3 (ready action)differently, and understandably so. However your reasoning for your ruling is because "teleportation" is exempted. How then would you rule if, instead of teleporting, a character plane shifted into your reach? Would you rule similarly despite OA only exempting teleportation? (I totally understand why you would do so).
Similarly, the conjuration of creatures from Summon/Conjure spells.
Example:
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and appear in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
For me, this is also similar enough in mechanics that the arrival of said creatures would not trigger the PAM OA (scenario 1), but would trigger the general reaction (scenario 3). Not explicitly RAW, but definitely logical and not an interaction currently addressed in the rules.
Yeah, if someone hasn't "physically traversed the space between two points" then calling the line between those two point their "path" is just inaccurate. That's exactly my position.
In this context, I'm saying measuring the "arbitrary line" between your start/stop coordinates doesn't actually mean you're measuring the path the person took nor are you measuring how far they moved. (That's why I'm calling it "arbitrary")
So I agree with the first half of your last sentence (that the start and stop positions don't define the path), but not that they don't define a distance. I think that's the key distinction in between our points of view. It seems to me that you do not think there ought to be a difference between "defining the path" and "determining the distance moved." And to me, it seems like you're going to a lot of effort to try to make one thing a subset of the other.
If you're measuring their start vs stop position you're not measuring how far they moved. How far they moved is identical to the distance of their path.
What you're measuring is instead how far they adjusted their position after a set amount of time. This value has more to it than simply them "moving".
For example, if someone runs a half circle that end exactly 10 ft away from their starting position saying "they moved 10 ft" is wildly inaccurate. They moved more than that! They moved half the circumference of a circle and merely ended up 10ft away from their starting position. They moved roughly 15ft.
If you're measuring something other than their actual path, you're not measuring how far they moved. You're measuring some arbitrary difference between two positions they've existed at with no regard to how they got to those positions.
Imagine, if you will, you arrive home after a long and active day running around town, and someone askes you how far you moved today. Would you say "I moved 10 ft, because I started my day 10ft away from my current position"? Uh, no. That'd be silly. You'd estimate the path you took to count up how far you moved throughout the day.
Of course it is silly. But your argument is a straw man. To calculate how far you move during a round, you sum all the distances between each sequential discrete position you occupy during the round. It doesn't matter how you get between those locations. If you walk in a circle, you occupy several discrete locations at each slice of time. The granularity of these positions is measured in foot increments, or 5' squares if you're using the Variant: Grid rules. If, at one moment you are at point A, and then the next moment, you're at point B, then you've moved the distance between them. If you then return to point A, you've moved that distance again. This is the distinction between distance and displacement.
Imagine that we record the movements of a person in contact with the ground as a line path in a 2D plane. If the person leaps from point A to point B, we cannot plot that path as a line, only two unconnected points. (They are not in contact with the ground, so they don't leave a path on it). You might argue that this means the line between them has no distance. But I argue the path exists, it's just not visible on the 2D projection.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Chapter 10 of the PHB defines the rules and mechanics of how spells use the energy of magic and how to understand what a spell intends. The spells info block at the top of the description of how the spell works gives one clues on what the context of the spell does.
Teleport is for traveling to a destination only within the current plane of existence based on how familiar one is with said destination.
Plane Shift is Teleport but for interdimensional planar travel, it uses a tuning fork that is tuned to the specific frequency of magical energy weave of the plane of existence one would travel to.
When Plane Shifting a DM could use the same complications table in Teleport to determine if the teleporting group were on target, or missed it completely.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Chapter 10 of the PHB defines the rules and mechanics of how spells use the energy of magic and how to understand what a spell intends. The spells info block at the top of the description of how the spell works gives one clues on what the context of the spell does.
Teleport is for traveling to a destination only within the current plane of existence based on how familiar one is with said destination.
Plane Shift is Teleport but for interdimensional planar travel, it uses a tuning fork that is tuned to the specific frequency of magical energy weave of the plane of existence one would travel to.
When Plane Shifting a DM could use the same complications table in Teleport to determine if the teleporting group were on target, or missed it completely.
The rules in those spells apply only to those spells. There is no general rule for "teleporting" but multiple spells require the target to teleport (Misty Step, Steel Wind Strike, etc). There is no general rule for "plane shifting" (well, there's a little in the DMG, but not regarding the mechanics or what it is), but multiple spells require the target to shift planes (Banishment, Blink, etc).
It is certainly possible to consider plane shifting to be teleporting btw, but I would not go so far as to say that the rules in the teleport spell apply to the plane shift spell.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Chapter 10 of the PHB defines the rules and mechanics of how spells use the energy of magic and how to understand what a spell intends. The spells info block at the top of the description of how the spell works gives one clues on what the context of the spell does.
Teleport is for traveling to a destination only within the current plane of existence based on how familiar one is with said destination.
Plane Shift is Teleport but for interdimensional planar travel, it uses a tuning fork that is tuned to the specific frequency of magical energy weave of the plane of existence one would travel to.
When Plane Shifting a DM could use the same complications table in Teleport to determine if the teleporting group were on target, or missed it completely.
The rules in those spells apply only to those spells. There is no general rule for "teleporting" but multiple spells require the target to teleport (Misty Step, Steel Wind Strike, etc). There is no general rule for "plane shifting" (well, there's a little in the DMG, but not regarding the mechanics or what it is), but multiple spells require the target to shift planes (Banishment, Blink, etc).
It is certainly possible to consider plane shifting to be teleporting btw, but I would not go so far as to say that the rules in the teleport spell apply to the plane shift spell.
The general rule for teleportation is the Teleport spell. If one notices, all other spells that "teleport" are of a lower magical energy usage, and begin to define the "distance" and location one can travel in direct proportion to the energy used in the spell.
Given the associations (Fey Touched etc.), you could just as easily say Misty Step opens a portal to the Feywild, where you take a brief and pleasant three year second jaunt before returning to whatever point you were aiming for.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Chapter 10 of the PHB defines the rules and mechanics of how spells use the energy of magic and how to understand what a spell intends. The spells info block at the top of the description of how the spell works gives one clues on what the context of the spell does.
Teleport is for traveling to a destination only within the current plane of existence based on how familiar one is with said destination.
Plane Shift is Teleport but for interdimensional planar travel, it uses a tuning fork that is tuned to the specific frequency of magical energy weave of the plane of existence one would travel to.
When Plane Shifting a DM could use the same complications table in Teleport to determine if the teleporting group were on target, or missed it completely.
The rules in those spells apply only to those spells. There is no general rule for "teleporting" but multiple spells require the target to teleport (Misty Step, Steel Wind Strike, etc). There is no general rule for "plane shifting" (well, there's a little in the DMG, but not regarding the mechanics or what it is), but multiple spells require the target to shift planes (Banishment, Blink, etc).
It is certainly possible to consider plane shifting to be teleporting btw, but I would not go so far as to say that the rules in the teleport spell apply to the plane shift spell.
The general rule for teleportation is the Teleport spell. If one notices, all other spells that "teleport" are of a lower magical energy usage, and begin to define the "distance" and location one can travel in direct proportion to the energy used in the spell.
I'm sorry, but this is categorically incorrect. General rules are described in general rules, not in specific ones. the description of teleportation in that spell is a rule for that spell only, otherwise every teleport spell would have the chance of failure described in that spell, as none of them target teleportation circles or require you to have an associate object. That is clearly not RAW or RAI.
Imagine that we record the movements of a person in contact with the ground as a line path in a 2D plane. If the person leaps from point A to point B, we cannot plot that path as a line, only two unconnected points. (They are not in contact with the ground, so they don't leave a path on it). You might argue that this means the line between them has no distance. But I argue the path exists, it's just not visible on the 2D projection.
I wouldn't argue that at all. Nor have I ever. I've consistently argued instead this: I'd argue we follow his exact path and calculate how far he moved along the arc he actually took. NOT the line between the two points the way you want to measure it.
Say A and B are 40ft apart and I fly up directly from A and fly in a sweeping arc until landing on B after having used my full 60ft ft speed.
I'd rule they moved 60ft. You'd rule they moved 40 ft.
Same applies to a teleporting person. We measure the path they actually took. If someone teleports from A to B. I'd rule they moved 0 ft. You'd rule they moved 40 ft.
Both times you're measuring an arbitrary line that has absolutely nothing to do with the path they actually took.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You can do whatever you want to do :) However keep in mind that that the game distinguishes between teleportation and plane shifting.
Teleportation definitly triggers Brace as you move and enter a space within the Fighter's reach when you do.
Entering a space is not the same as moving into that space. Movement, speed, is not expended.
This is mechanically true - a rule saying "you can't transit from one plane to another right now" won't stop teleportation by itself - but I'm genuinely curious, is it practically true? Do we have any RAW spells, magic items, etc that impede plane shifting without also impeding teleportation?
Out of curiosity, I decided to take a look at Abjuration spells that interact. Here's what I found:
So, I didn't find any that impeded plane shifting without also impeding teleportation. Does anyone know of any examples, spells or not?
I don't think the game actually does, though, except in defining which can get you to certain destinations. sure, teleport and plane shift are different spells and do different things, but the rules for those spells are just for those spells. In fact, because there is no such thing as a "general" teleport or plane shift rule, the game really doesn't even really define what they are or if they are truly separate things as it relates to things like opportunity attacks/etc (personally I rule that plane shifting is teleportation for the purposes of OAs since the mechanics of how they work seem similar in the ways that matter to OAs)
Without specific rules on what and how teleportation/plane shifting work as general concepts, its impossible to know whether the designers intend for them to be different in any measurable way other than the destinations allowed.
Wow, you make one little joke about time working differently in the Feywild... y'all are awesome, and I mean that sincerely
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Off the top of my head I can't think of any spells/items that block all instances of teleportation but no instances of plane shifting (and vice versa). However spells such as Wall of Force and Temple of the Gods affect specific usages of plane shifting without affecting teleportation in the same manner (unless ethereal travel is not included in the plane shifting category).
Looking past spells/items, some game effects do make a practical distinction between teleportation and plane shifting, such as the Opportunity Attack mechanic.
Teleportation and plane shifting are never clearly defined in the rules, that is correct. However the game explicitly makes a distinction between the two terms on numerous occasions (see quindraco's examples above), and they clearly have a different effect (transport to different types of locations as you say).
Out of curiosity, would you grant an attack in the following situations, assuming the target uses teleportation to move:
Private Sanctum doesn't affect both. Private Sanctum CAN affect both, one, the other, or neither, at your leisure.
Private Sanctum actually shows that there is a distinction being made because they're 2 different options being offered.
If they were indistinguishable or mechanically the same, that'd only be one line that blocked both teleportation and planar travel. Because if teleportation does rely on planer travel, then blocking just planar travel would also block teleportation. But this isn't the case. You can block ONLY planar travel and this still allows teleportation into the area.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ah, excellent point. I missed that you could pick either without picking the other, with Private Sanctum. You're 100% right, this means Private Sanctum is the example I was looking for.
ethereal travel (moving around in the ethereal plane) is blocked by the spell, but that is not plane shifting. Plane shifting would only include the actual transfer to the ethereal from the material…WoF is irrelevant to that since you aren’t moving through space during the shift
no, that’s an Opportunity Attack from which teleportation is exempted
this isn’t an OA, so it would trigger
this would trigger, see above
while I don’t see why one would do this, I’d say teleporting out would not trigger the attack. I say this because normal reactions occur after the trigger. OAs provide an exception because they say they occur just before the creature leaves and not after, but a regular reaction attack would not have that stipulation. If you are teleporting out, you aren’t there after the trigger occurs so the attack would never connect with you
You rule scenario 1 (opportunity attack) and 3 (ready action)differently, and understandably so. However your reasoning for your ruling is because "teleportation" is exempted. How then would you rule if, instead of teleporting, a character plane shifted into your reach? Would you rule similarly despite OA only exempting teleportation? (I totally understand why you would do so).
Similarly, the conjuration of creatures from Summon/Conjure spells.
Example:
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I consider the mechanics of plane shifting and teleportation (ie, departure and arrival; to me the only difference in the two spells/effects is possible destinations) to be similar enough that if teleportation is an exclusion from a rule, plane shifting would be too (the only exception being rules about the "where" of teleporting/plane shifting, which have to be separated again because the destinations can differ). Until guidance is given further defining either of those two terms, I see no reason why to do otherwise. So for scenario 1, either teleportation or plane shifting would be exempt at my table. both would trigger for scenario 3.
I will note that scenario 3 actually happened with plane shifting in one of the games I DM 3 sessions ago. The party successfully banished the BBEG of the encounter (after having killed all his minions), and lined up reaction attacks for when he returned to the plane. They wound up killing him in that round (on about the 9th reaction out of 10; each player controlled a PC and an NPC). It was fun to narrate.
For me, this is also similar enough in mechanics that the arrival of said creatures would not trigger the PAM OA (scenario 1), but would trigger the general reaction (scenario 3). Not explicitly RAW, but definitely logical and not an interaction currently addressed in the rules.
Of course it is silly. But your argument is a straw man.
To calculate how far you move during a round, you sum all the distances between each sequential discrete position you occupy during the round. It doesn't matter how you get between those locations. If you walk in a circle, you occupy several discrete locations at each slice of time. The granularity of these positions is measured in foot increments, or 5' squares if you're using the Variant: Grid rules. If, at one moment you are at point A, and then the next moment, you're at point B, then you've moved the distance between them. If you then return to point A, you've moved that distance again. This is the distinction between distance and displacement.
Imagine that we record the movements of a person in contact with the ground as a line path in a 2D plane.
If the person leaps from point A to point B, we cannot plot that path as a line, only two unconnected points. (They are not in contact with the ground, so they don't leave a path on it).
You might argue that this means the line between them has no distance. But I argue the path exists, it's just not visible on the 2D projection.
Chapter 10 of the PHB defines the rules and mechanics of how spells use the energy of magic and how to understand what a spell intends. The spells info block at the top of the description of how the spell works gives one clues on what the context of the spell does.
Teleport is for traveling to a destination only within the current plane of existence based on how familiar one is with said destination.
Plane Shift is Teleport but for interdimensional planar travel, it uses a tuning fork that is tuned to the specific frequency of magical energy weave of the plane of existence one would travel to.
When Plane Shifting a DM could use the same complications table in Teleport to determine if the teleporting group were on target, or missed it completely.
The rules in those spells apply only to those spells. There is no general rule for "teleporting" but multiple spells require the target to teleport (Misty Step, Steel Wind Strike, etc). There is no general rule for "plane shifting" (well, there's a little in the DMG, but not regarding the mechanics or what it is), but multiple spells require the target to shift planes (Banishment, Blink, etc).
It is certainly possible to consider plane shifting to be teleporting btw, but I would not go so far as to say that the rules in the teleport spell apply to the plane shift spell.
The general rule for teleportation is the Teleport spell. If one notices, all other spells that "teleport" are of a lower magical energy usage, and begin to define the "distance" and location one can travel in direct proportion to the energy used in the spell.
I'm sorry, but this is categorically incorrect. General rules are described in general rules, not in specific ones. the description of teleportation in that spell is a rule for that spell only, otherwise every teleport spell would have the chance of failure described in that spell, as none of them target teleportation circles or require you to have an associate object. That is clearly not RAW or RAI.
I wouldn't argue that at all. Nor have I ever. I've consistently argued instead this: I'd argue we follow his exact path and calculate how far he moved along the arc he actually took. NOT the line between the two points the way you want to measure it.
Say A and B are 40ft apart and I fly up directly from A and fly in a sweeping arc until landing on B after having used my full 60ft ft speed.
I'd rule they moved 60ft. You'd rule they moved 40 ft.
Same applies to a teleporting person. We measure the path they actually took. If someone teleports from A to B. I'd rule they moved 0 ft. You'd rule they moved 40 ft.
Both times you're measuring an arbitrary line that has absolutely nothing to do with the path they actually took.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.