Teleportation moves creature from one location to another, therefore its a movement that doesn't rely on speed like standard type of movement. But there are quite a few references throught the rulebooks that refer to teleport as move or movement.
When you teleport somewhere, you effectively leave a space/square and enter another.
Teleportation has no speed. Teleportation is not done on your move. Teleportation is not one of the listed types of movement in Movement and Positioning. Teleportation is not movement.
Effects that slow you down don't have any effect on how you teleport. Things that speed your movement up similarly have no effect on your teleport.
Teleport is a spell effect. Spell effects tell you what they do specifically. Teleport specifically says "You appear where you want"
Teleport therefore causes you to "appear" in a new location.
In a similar way, you might say to yourself, "I attack the enemies with a fireball". That's great. But, you're not making an attack in game term sense, nor making an attack roll. You follow the text of the spell to determine it's effects.
The spell effect of teleport is "you appear". This is not movement. It is a spell effect.
So, teleportation isn’t movement, but it does cause the teleporting creature to suddenly be in the area of effect that it was not in before, therefore meaning that they entered the area.
So you don't consider the below quote to state that teleportation is movement?
Movement and Positioning To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation
If that means "teleportation is movement" then it also means "using magic is movement".
"Magic such as teleportation" would refer to "magic with similar effects to teleportation", no? I'd say that would be magical transportation effects such as spells like Plane Shift, Transport Via Plants, portals etc.
Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources. I can feasibly teleport myself while not physically moving any part of my body (ignoring for a second that teleporting via most means requires spellcasting and components that might themselves require moving a body part; I'm sure some means don't require components though, like subtle spell).
In terms of entering an area (or area of effect), I would rule teleportation would qualify (it moves you into the area, therefore you have entered it). In terms of triggering effects that trigger on movement (like booming blade) I would rule it does not qualify to trigger the effect (you are not necessarily moving or using movement resources). It wouldn't trigger OAs ever, because the rules say so (beat to death in the other thread that was).
If a means of teleportation that used movement resources exists, I would argue it would count as movement for Booming Blade or similar effects (the closest examples i can think of would be stepping through a portal that teleported you like the one made by arcane gate, or using the "fold space" ability of the [magicitem]dimensional loop[/magic item], but I'm not sure if either of those would be considered true teleportation.
I'd definitely say that Arcane Gate counts as teleportation. However that spell, along with spells such as Transport Via Plants are not relevant to the discussion at hand as they require you to spend movement, as you point out.
I am a little confused as to what you mean when you write "Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources". Are you saying the spell moves you and that the caster is thus not moving?
Teleportation moves you from Point A to Point B. It does not require you to expend any of your speed (as a game resource) to do so. It theoretically does not require you to actually physically move any part of your body at all (you don't even have to blink or waggle a finger to activate some teleportation effects) to do so. Therefore I cannot rule that it counts as movement for the purpose of game effects that would trigger on movement (whether speed or physical motion of the body).
It does, however, potentially move you into an area or area of effect, and I rule that that counts as "entering" for the purpose of determining whether that AoE triggers. It's basically the ship analogy above, but instantaneous and not physical.
So we agree that teleportation moves you. Now, do you consider it movement? Or do you consider all movement to require the expenditure of movement speed?
PHB - Combat - Movement and Positioning:
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
I'm not sure whether Teleportation can be classified as moving or whether the distinction even matters (I can only think of 1 effect that cares), evidence points to yes, but isn't very clear. Teleportation is not movement which have specified types (which teleportation is not one). Also, unlike shoving/dragging it does not move you through any other spaces, only to the destination space with 0 travel distance.
And yes, arriving/appearing in a space you are now in that you weren't in before in entering.
A big part of the problem is the rules use "move" in a general sense of changing position, and as a specific thing you do on your turn. Like how "your action" is different from "an action".
Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources. I can feasibly teleport myself while not physically moving any part of my body (ignoring for a second that teleporting via most means requires spellcasting and components that might themselves require moving a body part; I'm sure some means don't require components though, like subtle spell).
In terms of entering an area (or area of effect), I would rule teleportation would qualify (it moves you into the area, therefore you have entered it). In terms of triggering effects that trigger on movement (like booming blade) I would rule it does not qualify to trigger the effect (you are not necessarily moving or using movement resources). It wouldn't trigger OAs ever, because the rules say so (beat to death in the other thread that was).
If a means of teleportation that used movement resources exists, I would argue it would count as movement for Booming Blade or similar effects (the closest examples i can think of would be stepping through a portal that teleported you like the one made by arcane gate, or using the "fold space" ability of the [magicitem]dimensional loop[/magic item], but I'm not sure if either of those would be considered true teleportation.
I'd definitely say that Arcane Gate counts as teleportation. However that spell, along with spells such as Transport Via Plants are not relevant to the discussion at hand as they require you to spend movement, as you point out.
I am a little confused as to what you mean when you write "Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources". Are you saying the spell moves you and that the caster is thus not moving?
Teleportation moves you from Point A to Point B. It does not require you to expend any of your speed (as a game resource) to do so. It theoretically does not require you to actually physically move any part of your body at all (you don't even have to blink or waggle a finger to activate some teleportation effects) to do so. Therefore I cannot rule that it counts as movement for the purpose of game effects that would trigger on movement (whether speed or physical motion of the body).
It does, however, potentially move you into an area or area of effect, and I rule that that counts as "entering" for the purpose of determining whether that AoE triggers. It's basically the ship analogy above, but instantaneous and not physical.
So we agree that teleportation moves you. Now, do you consider it movement? Or do you consider all movement to require the expenditure of movement speed?
I thought that that was clear that I think the answer to the first question is "no". Teleportation is not "movement" it does not use speed, nor does it necessarily require any sort of physical movement on the teleportees part.
I do not necessarily consider all movement to require the expenditure of movement speed, though most game effects tied to movement are also tied to movement speed. But Teleportation is not my "movement" any more than me standing on a ship floating down the river is my "movement" though in both cases I am moving, and in both cases if I moved into an area of effect I would trigger it.
I guess I consider "moving" to be changing position in space and "movement" to be changing position in space due to the motion of your body/form. Teleportation does not require motion of your body/form, so it is not "movement" though it is "moving". Standing on a ship in motion does not require motion of your body/form, so it is not "movement" though it is moving (it is the ships "movement", though)
Something that teleports has moved; for example, you can't use teleportation to transport a glyph of warding without breaking it. Whatever space it moves to, it enters, and whatever space it moves from, it exits.
Curiously, for teleportation and similar magics we actually use the words: Vanish and Appear. Not moves. Not enters. Not leaves. Not exits... We use: Vanish. Appear.
While you might assume it moves you, effects that move you say that they move you. Spell effects do precisely what their spell entry says they do, not what we imagine they say they do. These types of spells say: Appear.
They are worded very similarly to conjuration/summoning and even some illusions. You appear in the location. "Appearing" isn't a movement linked verb anywhere in the books. It just means: "To become visible" or "To manifest".
Not sure what you mean by this. If you are referring to "speed" as in the resource consumed by some forms of movement in order to track how much movement you can do, then any teleport (which is most of them) specifying you can teleport up to X feet away has a speed of X. If you mean that under many, but not all, circumstances, teleporting Y distance does not consume Y from your speed, then that is correct. Teleportation usually does not consume that resource, instead acting as supplemental "speed".
Teleportation is not done on your move.
Teleportation can be done on your move, but does not have to be, which is a statement that is true of all movement. You can walk on your move or not on your move, and you can teleport on your move or not on your move.
Teleportation is not one of the listed types of movement in Movement and Positioning.
Neither are flying or burrowing.
Teleportation is not movement.
This is incorrect.
Effects that slow you down don't have any effect on how you teleport.
Some of them do, and some of them don't. It depends on both slowing effect and the teleportation effect. For example, an L11 Horizon Walker under the effects of Slow can't teleport as often, and therefore can't teleport as far, as if the spell was not on them.
Things that speed your movement up similarly have no effect on your teleport.
They can, depending on your teleport. For example, Longstrider improves your ability to use Arcane Gate.
Teleport is a spell effect.
This is incorrect. See e.g. Horizon Walkers.
Spell effects tell you what they do specifically.
Generally, yes.
Teleport specifically says "You appear where you want"
A significant number - more than half, I believe - of all teleport effects explicitly restrict you to teleporting into unoccupied spaces, i.e. absolutely not wherever you want.
Teleport therefore causes you to "appear" in a new location.
A teleport could force you to appear - shutting down invisibility - but that is not required for teleportation.
In a similar way, you might say to yourself, "I attack the enemies with a fireball". That's great. But, you're not making an attack in game term sense, nor making an attack roll. You follow the text of the spell to determine it's effects.
This is correct.
The spell effect of teleport is "you appear".
This is not correct.
This is not movement.
This is not correct.
It is a spell effect.
This can be correct, if you teleported due to a spell. It is not correct in that you are claiming all teleports are spell effects, and they aren't.
If there is an effect on you that reduces your movement to 0, you can still teleport somewhere, barring other effects that might prevent you from casting the spell. This is why I say that teleportation is not movement in D&D. Colloquially, you may choose to call it movement for simplicity's sake, but in terms of how the rules define movement and how aspects of the game treat movement, teleportation is not movement.
If there is an effect on you that reduces your movement to 0, you can still teleport somewhere, barring other effects that might prevent you from casting the spell. This is why I say that teleportation is not movement in D&D. Colloquially, you may choose to call it movement for simplicity's sake, but in terms of how the rules define movement and how aspects of the game treat movement, teleportation is not movement.
But I'm pretty sure we all already knew that ;)
Again, you can't use teleportation to circumvent glyph of warding's ban on being moved - teleporting something moves that something, for all rules that care about it being moved. What's colloquial is not calling it movement because usually it does not consume speed (things don't reduce your movement to 0, they reduce your speed to 0), although a teleportation effect could consume speed. Likewise, if you had some way to walk without consuming speed, it would still be movement - consuming speed isn't required of movement, it's just that most movement consumes speed. As an example (of many) of voluntary movement without consuming speed, cast Telekinesis on yourself and use the spell to move yourself.
Something that teleports has moved; for example, you can't use teleportation to transport a glyph of warding without breaking it. Whatever space it moves to, it enters, and whatever space it moves from, it exits.
Curiously, for teleportation and similar magics we actually use the words: Vanish and Appear. Not moves. Not enters. Not leaves. Not exits... We use: Vanish. Appear.
The game doesn't...I checked. "Vanish" shows up in only a few occurences, mostly involving interplanar travel (and once in Steel Wind Strike, which is the only spell that says vanish and allows a teleport, though they don't explicitly connect the two. "Appear" does get used, but not universally. In game, the game uses "teleport" and "transport" to describe the effect just as much, often without any elaboration, as does the standard definition of "teleport":
"transport or be transported across space and distance instantly." (Source: Google)
transport, btw, is defined using the same criteria as "take or carry (people or goods) from one place to another by means of a vehicle, aircraft, or ship." which gives further credence to teleportation as a means of moving much like a ship, per analogies previously stated in this thread.
While you might assume it moves you, effects that move you say that they move you. Spell effects do precisely what their spell entry says they do, not what we imagine they say they do. These types of spells say: Appear.
to the bolded: Not as a universal rule. misty step doesn't, nor do the rest of the "step" family of spells.
They are worded very similarly to conjuration/summoning and even some illusions. You appear in the location. "Appearing" isn't a movement linked verb anywhere in the books. It just means: "To become visible" or "To manifest".
but we don't usually assign damage and saves to illusions, so they are moot as it pertains to AoEs, and i would rule that if you conjured a creature into an area of effect, it would make any saves and take any damage associated with that AoE just as if it had moved itself into the AoE, or been moved by something else
They can, depending on your teleport. For example, Longstrider improves your ability to use Arcane Gate.
How is Arcane Gate being affected by Longstrider exactly?
Arcane Gate is an excellent example of teleporting while moving in a way that consumes your speed. If you want to start your turn at one of the portals, duck through it, get into position, attack, and then get back through the second portal to where you started, the more speed you have, the easier a time you'll have doing it.
Again, you can't use teleportation to circumvent glyph of warding's ban on being moved - teleporting something moves that something, for all rules that care about it being moved. What's colloquial is not calling it movement because usually it does not consume speed (things don't reduce your movement to 0, they reduce your speed to 0), although a teleportation effect could consume speed. Likewise, if you had some way to walk without consuming speed, it would still be movement - consuming speed isn't required of movement, it's just that most movement consumes speed. As an example (of many) of voluntary movement without consuming speed, cast Telekinesis on yourself and use the spell to move yourself.
They can, depending on your teleport. For example, Longstrider improves your ability to use Arcane Gate.
How is Arcane Gate being affected by Longstrider exactly?
Arcane Gate is an excellent example of teleporting while moving in a way that consumes your speed. If you want to start your turn at one of the portals, duck through it, get into position, attack, and then get back through the second portal to where you started, the more speed you have, the easier a time you'll have doing it.
Ha but these exemples (Horizon Walker vs Slow and Longstrider vs Arcane Gate) don't have any effect on teleportation in itself, but on your ability to make use of them as it affect your speed or action usage. It has no effect on the teleportation discance from one location to another.
Not sure what you mean by this. If you are referring to "speed" as in the resource consumed by some forms of movement in order to track how much movement you can do, then any teleport (which is most of them) specifying you can teleport up to X feet away has a speed of X. If you mean that under many, but not all, circumstances, teleporting Y distance does not consume Y from your speed, then that is correct. Teleportation usually does not consume that resource, instead acting as supplemental "speed".
I don't really know how to respond to this except that: None of what you're saying is is from D&D 5e rulebooks. You might be confusing it for some other game? Teleportation in 5e has no listed speeds.
Teleportation is not done on your move.
Teleportation can be done on your move, but does not have to be, which is a statement that is true of all movement. You can walk on your move or not on your move, and you can teleport on your move or not on your move.
What allows teleportation to be done on a move portion of your turn? I'm getting the impression you're really not talking about 5e.
Teleportation is not one of the listed types of movement in Movement and Positioning.
Neither are flying or burrowing.
They are.
Teleportation is not movement.
This is incorrect.
The PHB disagrees with you.
Effects that slow you down don't have any effect on how you teleport.
Some of them do, and some of them don't. It depends on both slowing effect and the teleportation effect. For example, an L11 Horizon Walker under the effects of Slow can't teleport as often, and therefore can't teleport as far, as if the spell was not on them.
That is a strawman. The teleport they have is not altered in any way by being slowed. They teleport 10 ft, slowing them doesn't change that distance even though slow says "An affected target's speed is halved". Because teleport doesn't have a speed, isn't a type of movement, and isn't done with your move.
Things that speed your movement up similarly have no effect on your teleport.
They can, depending on your teleport. For example, Longstrider improves your ability to use Arcane Gate.
No, it doesn't. Longstrider has absolutely zero interaction with Arcane Gate.
Teleport is a spell effect.
This is incorrect. See e.g. Horizon Walkers.
Class/race abilities, like spell effects, do only precisely what they say they do.
Spell effects tell you what they do specifically.
Generally, yes.
Well we agree on something!
Teleport specifically says "You appear where you want"
A significant number - more than half, I believe - of all teleport effects explicitly restrict you to teleporting into unoccupied spaces, i.e. absolutely not wherever you want.
I assure you you do not want to teleport into an occupied space. Haven't you ever seen The Fly?
But no, seriously, the default assumption for teleportation is "You appear where you want". That doesn't, however, preclude spells that cause this effect to have their own restrictions such as "in an unoccupied space" or "a space you can see" etc. So, you'll note that: it being an unoccupied space or a space you can see are not the default restrictions placed on teleportation generally, and thus must be specifically addressed in the text of the ability that is allowing that teleportation.
Teleport therefore causes you to "appear" in a new location.
A teleport could force you to appear - shutting down invisibility - but that is not required for teleportation.
In a similar way, you might say to yourself, "I attack the enemies with a fireball". That's great. But, you're not making an attack in game term sense, nor making an attack roll. You follow the text of the spell to determine it's effects.
This is correct.
The spell effect of teleport is "you appear".
This is not correct.
You're disagreeing with a direct quote from the PHB? If that's your position I guess...
"You and your group (or the target object) appear where you want to."
This is not movement.
This is not correct.
Yes it is.
It is a spell effect.
This can be correct, if you teleported due to a spell. It is not correct in that you are claiming all teleports are spell effects, and they aren't.
Sure, there are also class or race abilities but, this doesn't sidestep the fact that class or race abilities, like spell effects, do only precisely what they say they do. Teleportation and other similar effects, when described in detail, use Appear and Vanish to describe their effects. They are never described as move, movement or as a speed. Until such a time as you can provide anything whatsoeverfrom the rules to back your claim that states they are movement, your position is unsupported by the rules.
Something that teleports has moved; for example, you can't use teleportation to transport a glyph of warding without breaking it. Whatever space it moves to, it enters, and whatever space it moves from, it exits.
Curiously, for teleportation and similar magics we actually use the words: Vanish and Appear. Not moves. Not enters. Not leaves. Not exits... We use: Vanish. Appear.
The game doesn't...I checked.
Oh it doesn't?
"Vanish" shows up in only a few occurences, mostly involving interplanar travel (and once in Steel Wind Strike, which is the only spell that says vanish and allows a teleport, though they don't explicitly connect the two. "Appear" does get used, but not universally. In game, the game uses "teleport" and "transport" to describe the effect just as much, often without any elaboration, as does the standard definition of "teleport":
Oh it does? Make up your mind
"transport or be transported across space and distance instantly." (Source: Google)
transport, btw, is defined using the same criteria as "take or carry (people or goods) from one place to another by means of a vehicle, aircraft, or ship." which gives further credence to teleportation as a means of moving much like a ship, per analogies previously stated in this thread.
Transport. Appear. Vanish. Yeah yeah. You know what words you're not finding at ALL?
Moved. Movement. Speed.
Curiously absent entirely. Weird. One might even come to the conclusion that teleportation isn't movement.
(You're not actually arguing teleportation creates a boat, are you?)
While you might assume it moves you, effects that move you say that they move you. Spell effects do precisely what their spell entry says they do, not what we imagine they say they do. These types of spells say: Appear.
to the bolded: Not as a universal rule. misty step doesn't, nor do the rest of the "step" family of spells.
Well, yeah, they say "teleport" and Teleport says: Appear.
What you're missing, as is the important bit...is that none of these spells say: Move. They specifically and intentionally are described in such a way as to avoid that word like the plague. Why? Why would they do that. Why write Transport? Why write appear?
Why not just say move?
Really ask yourself why.
They are worded very similarly to conjuration/summoning and even some illusions. You appear in the location. "Appearing" isn't a movement linked verb anywhere in the books. It just means: "To become visible" or "To manifest".
but we don't usually assign damage and saves to illusions, so they are moot as it pertains to AoEs, and i would rule that if you conjured a creature into an area of effect, it would make any saves and take any damage associated with that AoE just as if it had moved itself into the AoE, or been moved by something else
We.. don't assign saves.. to illusions? Uh...
Anyway, that's offtopic. Ontopic: You're free to do whatever you want in your game. People homebrew rulings like the one you're proposing here all the time, and if you think it makes your game better more power to you. Ain't no shame in deviating from RAW if it streamlines your games or makes sense to you better than RAW does. (I don't know about you but I've never played at a 100% strictly RAW table before).
I don't always think, however, that "how I'd do it" makes for a compelling argument for what the rules text actually says.
In terms of entering an area (or area of effect), I would rule teleportation would qualify (it moves you into the area, therefore you have entered it). In terms of triggering effects that trigger on movement (like booming blade) I would rule it does not qualify to trigger the effect (you are not necessarily moving or using movement resources).
Before the usual suspect tries to make themselves the star of this thread the way they did That Other One, I think the booming blade question should probably get a better look.
I can genuinely see both sides of it. The specific text:
On a hit, the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects and then becomes sheathed in booming energy until the start of your next turn. If the target willingly moves 5 feet or more before then, the target takes 1d8 thunder damage, and the spell ends.
So, if "willingly moves" refers to using normal movement speed, then teleporting wouldn't trigger the additional damage. Simple enough.
Except, there's an SAC ruling that states getting up from being prone does not trigger the additional damage. Getting up from being prone does take some of your movement speed. Which suggests it's not the person moving around that triggers the damage, but the person shifting their position on the battlefield -- in which case, teleporting would absolutely trigger it.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources. I can feasibly teleport myself while not physically moving any part of my body (ignoring for a second that teleporting via most means requires spellcasting and components that might themselves require moving a body part; I'm sure some means don't require components though, like subtle spell).
In terms of entering an area (or area of effect), I would rule teleportation would qualify (it moves you into the area, therefore you have entered it). In terms of triggering effects that trigger on movement (like booming blade) I would rule it does not qualify to trigger the effect (you are not necessarily moving or using movement resources). It wouldn't trigger OAs ever, because the rules say so (beat to death in the other thread that was).
If a means of teleportation that used movement resources exists, I would argue it would count as movement for Booming Blade or similar effects (the closest examples i can think of would be stepping through a portal that teleported you like the one made by arcane gate, or using the "fold space" ability of the [magicitem]dimensional loop[/magic item], but I'm not sure if either of those would be considered true teleportation.
I'd definitely say that Arcane Gate counts as teleportation. However that spell, along with spells such as Transport Via Plants are not relevant to the discussion at hand as they require you to spend movement, as you point out.
I am a little confused as to what you mean when you write "Teleportation moves you, but does not require you to move or use your movement resources". Are you saying the spell moves you and that the caster is thus not moving?
Teleportation moves you from Point A to Point B. It does not require you to expend any of your speed (as a game resource) to do so. It theoretically does not require you to actually physically move any part of your body at all (you don't even have to blink or waggle a finger to activate some teleportation effects) to do so. Therefore I cannot rule that it counts as movement for the purpose of game effects that would trigger on movement (whether speed or physical motion of the body).
It does, however, potentially move you into an area or area of effect, and I rule that that counts as "entering" for the purpose of determining whether that AoE triggers. It's basically the ship analogy above, but instantaneous and not physical.
So we agree that teleportation moves you. Now, do you consider it movement? Or do you consider all movement to require the expenditure of movement speed?
PHB - Combat - Movement and Positioning:
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
The only instances of teleportation that I recall that can be used during your move (which is what that clause is about) are types of portals such as through the Arcane Gate or Transport Via Plants spells. These clearly require movement speed to walk through the gate which is deducted from your total. Correct me if I'm wrong (with evidence), but most other teleportation effects make use of your action, bonus action, or reaction, and don't require you to spend any of your available feet of movement to teleport.
If there is an effect on you that reduces your movement to 0, you can still teleport somewhere, barring other effects that might prevent you from casting the spell. This is why I say that teleportation is not movement in D&D. Colloquially, you may choose to call it movement for simplicity's sake, but in terms of how the rules define movement and how aspects of the game treat movement, teleportation is not movement.
But I'm pretty sure we all already knew that ;)
Again, you can't use teleportation to circumvent glyph of warding's ban on being moved - teleporting something moves that something, for all rules that care about it being moved. What's colloquial is not calling it movement because usually it does not consume speed (things don't reduce your movement to 0, they reduce your speed to 0), although a teleportation effect could consume speed. Likewise, if you had some way to walk without consuming speed, it would still be movement - consuming speed isn't required of movement, it's just that most movement consumes speed. As an example (of many) of voluntary movement without consuming speed, cast Telekinesis on yourself and use the spell to move yourself.
The glyph of warding example also suggests teleporting would trigger the additional booming blade damage. Spells that have a "don't move from this spot or else X" seem to consider teleporting moving away from the spot.
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Teleportation moves creature from one location to another, therefore its a movement that doesn't rely on speed like standard type of movement. But there are quite a few references throught the rulebooks that refer to teleport as move or movement.
When you teleport somewhere, you effectively leave a space/square and enter another.
Teleportation has no speed. Teleportation is not done on your move. Teleportation is not one of the listed types of movement in Movement and Positioning. Teleportation is not movement.
Effects that slow you down don't have any effect on how you teleport. Things that speed your movement up similarly have no effect on your teleport.
Teleport is a spell effect. Spell effects tell you what they do specifically. Teleport specifically says "You appear where you want"
Teleport therefore causes you to "appear" in a new location.
In a similar way, you might say to yourself, "I attack the enemies with a fireball". That's great. But, you're not making an attack in game term sense, nor making an attack roll. You follow the text of the spell to determine it's effects.
The spell effect of teleport is "you appear". This is not movement. It is a spell effect.
I'm probably laughing.
"Magic such as teleportation" would refer to "magic with similar effects to teleportation", no? I'd say that would be magical transportation effects such as spells like Plane Shift, Transport Via Plants, portals etc.
I'm probably laughing.
I'm not sure whether Teleportation can be classified as moving or whether the distinction even matters (I can only think of 1 effect that cares), evidence points to yes, but isn't very clear. Teleportation is not movement which have specified types (which teleportation is not one). Also, unlike shoving/dragging it does not move you through any other spaces, only to the destination space with 0 travel distance.
And yes, arriving/appearing in a space you are now in that you weren't in before in entering.
A big part of the problem is the rules use "move" in a general sense of changing position, and as a specific thing you do on your turn. Like how "your action" is different from "an action".
I thought that that was clear that I think the answer to the first question is "no". Teleportation is not "movement" it does not use speed, nor does it necessarily require any sort of physical movement on the teleportees part.
I do not necessarily consider all movement to require the expenditure of movement speed, though most game effects tied to movement are also tied to movement speed. But Teleportation is not my "movement" any more than me standing on a ship floating down the river is my "movement" though in both cases I am moving, and in both cases if I moved into an area of effect I would trigger it.
I guess I consider "moving" to be changing position in space and "movement" to be changing position in space due to the motion of your body/form. Teleportation does not require motion of your body/form, so it is not "movement" though it is "moving". Standing on a ship in motion does not require motion of your body/form, so it is not "movement" though it is moving (it is the ships "movement", though)
Curiously, for teleportation and similar magics we actually use the words: Vanish and Appear. Not moves. Not enters. Not leaves. Not exits... We use: Vanish. Appear.
While you might assume it moves you, effects that move you say that they move you. Spell effects do precisely what their spell entry says they do, not what we imagine they say they do. These types of spells say: Appear.
They are worded very similarly to conjuration/summoning and even some illusions. You appear in the location. "Appearing" isn't a movement linked verb anywhere in the books. It just means: "To become visible" or "To manifest".
I'm probably laughing.
Not sure what you mean by this. If you are referring to "speed" as in the resource consumed by some forms of movement in order to track how much movement you can do, then any teleport (which is most of them) specifying you can teleport up to X feet away has a speed of X. If you mean that under many, but not all, circumstances, teleporting Y distance does not consume Y from your speed, then that is correct. Teleportation usually does not consume that resource, instead acting as supplemental "speed".
Teleportation can be done on your move, but does not have to be, which is a statement that is true of all movement. You can walk on your move or not on your move, and you can teleport on your move or not on your move.
Neither are flying or burrowing.
This is incorrect.
Some of them do, and some of them don't. It depends on both slowing effect and the teleportation effect. For example, an L11 Horizon Walker under the effects of Slow can't teleport as often, and therefore can't teleport as far, as if the spell was not on them.
They can, depending on your teleport. For example, Longstrider improves your ability to use Arcane Gate.
This is incorrect. See e.g. Horizon Walkers.
Generally, yes.
A significant number - more than half, I believe - of all teleport effects explicitly restrict you to teleporting into unoccupied spaces, i.e. absolutely not wherever you want.
A teleport could force you to appear - shutting down invisibility - but that is not required for teleportation.
This is correct.
This is not correct.
This is not correct.
This can be correct, if you teleported due to a spell. It is not correct in that you are claiming all teleports are spell effects, and they aren't.
If there is an effect on you that reduces your movement to 0, you can still teleport somewhere, barring other effects that might prevent you from casting the spell. This is why I say that teleportation is not movement in D&D. Colloquially, you may choose to call it movement for simplicity's sake, but in terms of how the rules define movement and how aspects of the game treat movement, teleportation is not movement.
But I'm pretty sure we all already knew that ;)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Again, you can't use teleportation to circumvent glyph of warding's ban on being moved - teleporting something moves that something, for all rules that care about it being moved. What's colloquial is not calling it movement because usually it does not consume speed (things don't reduce your movement to 0, they reduce your speed to 0), although a teleportation effect could consume speed. Likewise, if you had some way to walk without consuming speed, it would still be movement - consuming speed isn't required of movement, it's just that most movement consumes speed. As an example (of many) of voluntary movement without consuming speed, cast Telekinesis on yourself and use the spell to move yourself.
How is Arcane Gate being affected by Longstrider exactly?
The game doesn't...I checked. "Vanish" shows up in only a few occurences, mostly involving interplanar travel (and once in Steel Wind Strike, which is the only spell that says vanish and allows a teleport, though they don't explicitly connect the two. "Appear" does get used, but not universally. In game, the game uses "teleport" and "transport" to describe the effect just as much, often without any elaboration, as does the standard definition of "teleport":
"transport or be transported across space and distance instantly." (Source: Google)
transport, btw, is defined using the same criteria as "take or carry (people or goods) from one place to another by means of a vehicle, aircraft, or ship." which gives further credence to teleportation as a means of moving much like a ship, per analogies previously stated in this thread.
to the bolded: Not as a universal rule. misty step doesn't, nor do the rest of the "step" family of spells.
but we don't usually assign damage and saves to illusions, so they are moot as it pertains to AoEs, and i would rule that if you conjured a creature into an area of effect, it would make any saves and take any damage associated with that AoE just as if it had moved itself into the AoE, or been moved by something else
Arcane Gate is an excellent example of teleporting while moving in a way that consumes your speed. If you want to start your turn at one of the portals, duck through it, get into position, attack, and then get back through the second portal to where you started, the more speed you have, the easier a time you'll have doing it.
Teleportation is not considered movement :)
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Ha but these exemples (Horizon Walker vs Slow and Longstrider vs Arcane Gate) don't have any effect on teleportation in itself, but on your ability to make use of them as it affect your speed or action usage. It has no effect on the teleportation discance from one location to another.
I don't really know how to respond to this except that: None of what you're saying is is from D&D 5e rulebooks. You might be confusing it for some other game? Teleportation in 5e has no listed speeds.
What allows teleportation to be done on a move portion of your turn? I'm getting the impression you're really not talking about 5e.
They are.
The PHB disagrees with you.
That is a strawman. The teleport they have is not altered in any way by being slowed. They teleport 10 ft, slowing them doesn't change that distance even though slow says "An affected target's speed is halved". Because teleport doesn't have a speed, isn't a type of movement, and isn't done with your move.
No, it doesn't. Longstrider has absolutely zero interaction with Arcane Gate.
Class/race abilities, like spell effects, do only precisely what they say they do.
Well we agree on something!
I assure you you do not want to teleport into an occupied space. Haven't you ever seen The Fly?
But no, seriously, the default assumption for teleportation is "You appear where you want". That doesn't, however, preclude spells that cause this effect to have their own restrictions such as "in an unoccupied space" or "a space you can see" etc. So, you'll note that: it being an unoccupied space or a space you can see are not the default restrictions placed on teleportation generally, and thus must be specifically addressed in the text of the ability that is allowing that teleportation.
You're disagreeing with a direct quote from the PHB? If that's your position I guess...
"You and your group (or the target object) appear where you want to."
Yes it is.
Sure, there are also class or race abilities but, this doesn't sidestep the fact that class or race abilities, like spell effects, do only precisely what they say they do. Teleportation and other similar effects, when described in detail, use Appear and Vanish to describe their effects. They are never described as move, movement or as a speed. Until such a time as you can provide anything whatsoever from the rules to back your claim that states they are movement, your position is unsupported by the rules.
I'm probably laughing.
Oh it doesn't?
Oh it does? Make up your mind
Transport. Appear. Vanish. Yeah yeah. You know what words you're not finding at ALL?
Moved. Movement. Speed.
Curiously absent entirely. Weird. One might even come to the conclusion that teleportation isn't movement.
(You're not actually arguing teleportation creates a boat, are you?)
Well, yeah, they say "teleport" and Teleport says: Appear.
What you're missing, as is the important bit...is that none of these spells say: Move. They specifically and intentionally are described in such a way as to avoid that word like the plague. Why? Why would they do that. Why write Transport? Why write appear?
Why not just say move?
Really ask yourself why.
We.. don't assign saves.. to illusions? Uh...
Anyway, that's offtopic. Ontopic: You're free to do whatever you want in your game. People homebrew rulings like the one you're proposing here all the time, and if you think it makes your game better more power to you. Ain't no shame in deviating from RAW if it streamlines your games or makes sense to you better than RAW does. (I don't know about you but I've never played at a 100% strictly RAW table before).
I don't always think, however, that "how I'd do it" makes for a compelling argument for what the rules text actually says.
I'm probably laughing.
Before the usual suspect tries to make themselves the star of this thread the way they did That Other One, I think the booming blade question should probably get a better look.
I can genuinely see both sides of it. The specific text:
So, if "willingly moves" refers to using normal movement speed, then teleporting wouldn't trigger the additional damage. Simple enough.
Except, there's an SAC ruling that states getting up from being prone does not trigger the additional damage. Getting up from being prone does take some of your movement speed. Which suggests it's not the person moving around that triggers the damage, but the person shifting their position on the battlefield -- in which case, teleporting would absolutely trigger it.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The only instances of teleportation that I recall that can be used during your move (which is what that clause is about) are types of portals such as through the Arcane Gate or Transport Via Plants spells. These clearly require movement speed to walk through the gate which is deducted from your total. Correct me if I'm wrong (with evidence), but most other teleportation effects make use of your action, bonus action, or reaction, and don't require you to spend any of your available feet of movement to teleport.
The glyph of warding example also suggests teleporting would trigger the additional booming blade damage. Spells that have a "don't move from this spot or else X" seem to consider teleporting moving away from the spot.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)