(New 5e dungeon master here, returned to the game after decades); A recent game fell into laughs when a player was attacking an incapacitated opponent. The player rolled so badly she missed three times! It's a bit hard to tell a player with a rogue assassin she failed to stab a sack of potatoes. Her words, lol!
I thought there should have been a better chance to hit than just advantage rolls to hit. Why not exclude the DEX bonus to AC? Take away AC for armour? -3 or something, depending on the armour. Or perhaps some contest against the attackers bonuses and the opponents?
Anyho', as far as I know you would consider the rules for the unconscious condition when it comes to attacking an incapacitated foe. So, attacking with advantage as well as any hit being considered a critical hit. Yea, I bet most DMs just say, sure you hit automatically, but I was looking for something closer to the rules as written.
If you're in combat, the chaotic nature of the battlefield leads to all sorts of unusual results. Maybe she's distracted by the ogre slamming a giant club into her bard ally's head? Maybe the screams of the party cleric who just was stabbed causes her focus to wane. Whatever is happening around her could be distracting or interfering with the act of finishing off this one particular foe.
But if you're outside of combat entirely, feel free to just narrate the assassination without needing combat rules altogether.
But you're right, it is very odd that an unconscious creature retains a dexterity bonus to their AC. But as the DM you're free to homebrew this and change it if you want to. Just discuss it with your players before hand, no one likes having rules changes sprung on them in the middle of a fight.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Why not exclude the DEX bonus to AC? Take away AC for armour? -3 or something, depending on the armour. Or perhaps some contest against the attackers bonuses and the opponents?
I believe previous editions had this, and it got complicated and confusing fast. Touch AC. Flat-footed AC. Unconcsious AC.
Thx Raz! Your post made me realize something I was NOT getting about this whole situation. Does it happen in the middle of a battle, or not? Of course it would be automatic to hit if there wasn't a battle raging around. I feel like a complete dummy now. lol!
Anyho', as far as I know you would consider the rules for the unconscious condition when it comes to attacking an incapacitated foe. So, attacking with advantage as well as any hit being considered a critical hit.Yea, I bet most DMs just say, sure you hit automatically, but I was looking for something closer to the rules as written.
Actually Incapacitated is rarely seen on its own. And it just means you can't take actions, it doesn't confer any of the other things you mentioned.
Paralyzed or Unconscious both have the advantage on attack/auto-crit stuff while Stunned and Restrained just gives opponents advantage to attack. The first three of those also makes you Incapacitated.
Other than that I agree with Rav, in combat anything can throw you off and make you miss, out of combat though a "sack of potatoes" should be a really easy target.
Thx Thezz, and Greenstone too. Ya know, I suddenly think there should be a very clear 'conditions' sub-chapter to explain this, in both the PHB and a more detailed DMG one to cover just what you and Raz was talking about. I do think these rules are great, and I love the 5e rules more and more as I understand the "give and take" these rules can provide... if you understand them well. And frankly, you guys are giving me insight I never found in the rules.
Thezz... I literally spent about 10mins looking through the PHB here on DNDBeyond just to find that, I despaired that what you posted only existed on my DM's screen! lol
Right now I want to make that link a 'favourite', or something like that. Good idea?
Unless the opponent was another player, the rules state that a 0 hp creature is usually assumed as having been killed. So, how exactly was the opponent incapacitated?
Paralyzed, Petrified, Stunned or sleeping are the only ones that don't involve dropping to 0 hp.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
Knocking a Creature Out
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
Unless the opponent was another player, the rules state that a 0 hp creature is usually assumed as having been killed. So, how exactly was the opponent incapacitated?
Don't follow this assumption if there are enemy/npc creatures on the battlefield that can or are healing or have some sort of passive regeneration. Or if the PCs are intentionally trying to only incapacitate or wound and using healing magic to ensure that outcome.
Paralyzed, Petrified, Stunned or sleeping are the only ones that don't involve dropping to 0 hp.
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
Knocking a Creature Out
Sometimes an attacker wants to incapacitate a foe, rather than deal a killing blow. When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Hideous Laughter and Hypnotic Pattern are popular ones for causing the target to become incapacitated without losing hp, though Hideous Laughter also makes them prone so that can be a source of advantage on attacks against them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
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Hi,
(New 5e dungeon master here, returned to the game after decades); A recent game fell into laughs when a player was attacking an incapacitated opponent. The player rolled so badly she missed three times! It's a bit hard to tell a player with a rogue assassin she failed to stab a sack of potatoes. Her words, lol!
I thought there should have been a better chance to hit than just advantage rolls to hit. Why not exclude the DEX bonus to AC? Take away AC for armour? -3 or something, depending on the armour. Or perhaps some contest against the attackers bonuses and the opponents?
Anyho', as far as I know you would consider the rules for the unconscious condition when it comes to attacking an incapacitated foe. So, attacking with advantage as well as any hit being considered a critical hit. Yea, I bet most DMs just say, sure you hit automatically, but I was looking for something closer to the rules as written.
Thoughts?
If you're in combat, the chaotic nature of the battlefield leads to all sorts of unusual results. Maybe she's distracted by the ogre slamming a giant club into her bard ally's head? Maybe the screams of the party cleric who just was stabbed causes her focus to wane. Whatever is happening around her could be distracting or interfering with the act of finishing off this one particular foe.
But if you're outside of combat entirely, feel free to just narrate the assassination without needing combat rules altogether.
But you're right, it is very odd that an unconscious creature retains a dexterity bonus to their AC. But as the DM you're free to homebrew this and change it if you want to. Just discuss it with your players before hand, no one likes having rules changes sprung on them in the middle of a fight.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I believe previous editions had this, and it got complicated and confusing fast. Touch AC. Flat-footed AC. Unconcsious AC.
5E keeps it simple. You have one AC.
Thx Raz! Your post made me realize something I was NOT getting about this whole situation. Does it happen in the middle of a battle, or not? Of course it would be automatic to hit if there wasn't a battle raging around. I feel like a complete dummy now. lol!
Actually Incapacitated is rarely seen on its own. And it just means you can't take actions, it doesn't confer any of the other things you mentioned.
Paralyzed or Unconscious both have the advantage on attack/auto-crit stuff while Stunned and Restrained just gives opponents advantage to attack. The first three of those also makes you Incapacitated.
Other than that I agree with Rav, in combat anything can throw you off and make you miss, out of combat though a "sack of potatoes" should be a really easy target.
Thx Thezz, and Greenstone too. Ya know, I suddenly think there should be a very clear 'conditions' sub-chapter to explain this, in both the PHB and a more detailed DMG one to cover just what you and Raz was talking about. I do think these rules are great, and I love the 5e rules more and more as I understand the "give and take" these rules can provide... if you understand them well. And frankly, you guys are giving me insight I never found in the rules.
Yea I agree, conditions could use a bit more attention. But there is a nice list in the Appendix of the PHB for reference.
Thezz... I literally spent about 10mins looking through the PHB here on DNDBeyond just to find that, I despaired that what you posted only existed on my DM's screen! lol
Right now I want to make that link a 'favourite', or something like that. Good idea?
Unless the opponent was another player, the rules state that a 0 hp creature is usually assumed as having been killed. So, how exactly was the opponent incapacitated?
Paralyzed, Petrified, Stunned or sleeping are the only ones that don't involve dropping to 0 hp.
Don't follow this assumption if there are enemy/npc creatures on the battlefield that can or are healing or have some sort of passive regeneration. Or if the PCs are intentionally trying to only incapacitate or wound and using healing magic to ensure that outcome.
Spells and abilities can incapacitate. Eg. banishing smite
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Hideous Laughter and Hypnotic Pattern are popular ones for causing the target to become incapacitated without losing hp, though Hideous Laughter also makes them prone so that can be a source of advantage on attacks against them.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)