Ask a reenactor or a classical historian and words Gladius and Legion will pop-up. When a Roman infantry formation uses a pilum/spears as move toward the enemy lines they hurl the spears. As the clash shorts swords are useful in crowded melee.Two fighters in a 5' square make little mr. stabby-sword more useful than a longswords. Doubts? This combat scenario was used by the Romans Gaul and Britain.
break the shield wall and the is to close to use a longsword. we're talking or 2 fighters inside a 5' square, while also taking opportunity shots at enemiesoutside the 5' sq.
Piercing damage and Slashing damage are effectively the same type of damage anyway. You stab a guy with a dagger and pierce him by cutting into him. You slash a guy with an axe by cutting him. They're both blade edges slicing fleshy bits there really is no reason to distinguish between these two damage types and there never really has been. Bludgeoning? Now that is a whole different means of destruction. That isn't blades cutting/slicing. That is blunt force trauma than crushes and mashes. Very different type of wound.
Game should just have Bludgeoning and Slashing. And if they wanted a third type it would be: Tearing. This would be applicable to bite/maul attacks from some larger animals and yanking/rending attacks the aim to rip parts off people. That too is a different type of trauma to the body, a different type of wound.
So Slashing, Bludgeoning, and Tearing. IMO. The debate about piercing vs slashing fro weapons is silly. They're both just cuts.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They are not both just cuts. However, the days when various armor types being more ore less susceptible to them in D&D are over, even if it does still actually make a difference IRL.
"Never has been" is not true, since Rogues used to need piercing weapons to sneak attack (backstab) with.
I dislike debating with you as I find watching you dismember people with words quite entertaining. However, this statement is not entirely correct. At least for 1e:
"Back stabbing is the striking of a blow from behind, be it with club, dagger, or sword. The damage done per hit is twice normal for the weapon used per four experience levels of the thief, i.e. double damage at levels 1-4, triple at 5-8, quadruple at levels 9-12, and quintuple at levels 13-16. Note that striking by surprise from behind also increases the hit probability by 20% (+4 on the thief's "to hit" die roll)." - PHB p 27
So short swords could be used to backstab but you could also use other types of weapons.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Piercing and slashing damage aren't effectively the same. One is puncture, usually deeper wounds while the other is slasling cut which can cover a bigger surface but usually have less penetration.
Their game definitions are effectively not the same as well from what we can read.
In effect being different type, some monsters also react differently to those, but they are few and sparse.
But 99% of the time, a weapon damage type doesn't matter much, it's just damage vs HP with no other interaction whatsoever.
I loved the gritty specificity of these Elder Scrolls, I mean editions. I miss the multi-page weapons tables... of course hamstringing with a slash is pretty much equal to a 3" jab into everything within a 8" radius of the groin. Mr. Stabby Short-Sword Is a Halflings favorite friend.
Piercing vital organs in the chest cavity will probably result in organ failure, infection and/or gangrene, cardiac arrest from blood loss. we're talking about 9mm hand gun damage, plus penetring damage is wicked.
This has always been my thought as well as the small sword was a weapon used by the common people so the blade was more square and wile it did have enough of an edge to cut you if you applied gripping pressure from a squeeze it was very poor to use for slashing. It was small and light better to thrust and use more like a baton for wrestling in close quarters with an opponent rather than broad shoulder slashes. The sword most people probably see though is a roman gladius or an arming sword which where largely used by the military or by nobility as a decorated symbol of status.
Well, I mean technically a speargun is just an underwater crossbow. This is even backed up by the RAW for underwater combat:
A ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon’s normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).
Well, I mean technically a speargun is just an underwater crossbow. This is even backed up by the RAW for underwater combat:
A ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon’s normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).
Pretty sure you cannot fire spear sized projectiles even from a Heavy Crossbow, on the surface. If you upsize the bow enough to manage that, the name changes to Ballista.
Pretty sure you can fire spear gun-sized projectiles from a spear gun which uses the same arming and firing principle as a crossbow, hence my comparison.
This has always been my thought as well as the small sword was a weapon used by the common people so the blade was more square and wile it did have enough of an edge to cut you if you applied gripping pressure from a squeeze it was very poor to use for slashing. It was small and light better to thrust and use more like a baton for wrestling in close quarters with an opponent rather than broad shoulder slashes. The sword most people probably see though is a roman gladius or an arming sword which where largely used by the military or by nobility as a decorated symbol of status.
Cutlasses were used as weapons. Small swords were used as decorations. This is in use in proportion to adult humans.
Short stabby swords had little battlefield utility unless used with other accompanying equipment like a whacking great shield (and an army).
Stabby shortswords like the (also swingy) Sting may have been good with littlefolk if we conceived those folk to gain great mobility from their relative lack of inertia. (Yes, a half-sized humanoid may have a quarter of the strength but this is in their carrying of an eighth of the weight). Unless they can utilise this mobility they could still struggle if facing an opponent with a real-world finesse usage of a rapier or spear.
Really. Can you show an example? Again, we are talking D&D level tech, not modern Co2 cannister versions or elastic versions that use refined rubber. The latter did not show up until the early 1900's.
I'd have to somewhat agree with Llethander tbh. What is fired from a modern speargun is a lot more similar to the arrow/bolt size than to the spear size. Using a crossbow to get the functionality of a speargun should be fully doable even with D&D level tech.
Using a crossbow to fire an actual spear is clearly ludicrous but the only one here that thought that was up for discussion is you.
A spear gun is a real world weapon. Used in scuba diving for game-fishing. The spear is basically a long streamlined (maybe 3' long) cross bow bolt. I've seen weapons that use elastic bands or compressed air to fire the spear. Underwater range and effective power would be lower at distance, but they do work. If you can build a x-bow you wouldn't need any new abilities. It-s more sling-shot than onager.
Well, I mean technically a speargun is just an underwater crossbow. This is even backed up by the RAW for underwater combat:
A ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon’s normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).
Pretty sure you cannot fire spear sized projectiles even from a Heavy Crossbow, on the surface. If you upsize the bow enough to manage that, the name changes to Ballista.
Pretty sure you can fire spear gun-sized projectiles from a spear gun which uses the same arming and firing principle as a crossbow, hence my comparison.
Really. Can you show an example? Again, we are talking D&D level tech, not modern Co2 cannister versions or elastic versions that use refined rubber. The latter did not show up until the early 1900's.
Of course not, I don't have access to magic or materials such as Mithril or Adamantine. Get me some Drider webbing and I might be able to make something work, though. It has amazing elastic properties, I hear. :D
But this quote chain has the rule that allows crossbows to work underwater. You're welcome.
as far as the timeline goes A Roman Legionaire wouldn't get the argument, many classical weapons used torsion springs, that used torsion springs made materials wood, rope or sinew. the designs require math's, but requires bronze-age materials, just lacking the maths to design the springs. These devices were a.k.a. siege engines. And thier munitions could easily be 2-4" in diameter.
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Ask a reenactor or a classical historian and words Gladius and Legion will pop-up. When a Roman infantry formation uses a pilum/spears as move toward the enemy lines they hurl the spears. As the clash shorts swords are useful in crowded melee.Two fighters in a 5' square make little mr. stabby-sword more useful than a longswords. Doubts? This combat scenario was used by the Romans Gaul and Britain.
break the shield wall and the is to close to use a longsword. we're talking or 2 fighters inside a 5' square, while also taking opportunity shots at enemiesoutside the 5' sq.
IMHO shorts could make a cooool throwing weapon.
Piercing damage and Slashing damage are effectively the same type of damage anyway. You stab a guy with a dagger and pierce him by cutting into him. You slash a guy with an axe by cutting him. They're both blade edges slicing fleshy bits there really is no reason to distinguish between these two damage types and there never really has been. Bludgeoning? Now that is a whole different means of destruction. That isn't blades cutting/slicing. That is blunt force trauma than crushes and mashes. Very different type of wound.
Game should just have Bludgeoning and Slashing. And if they wanted a third type it would be: Tearing. This would be applicable to bite/maul attacks from some larger animals and yanking/rending attacks the aim to rip parts off people. That too is a different type of trauma to the body, a different type of wound.
So Slashing, Bludgeoning, and Tearing. IMO. The debate about piercing vs slashing fro weapons is silly. They're both just cuts.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They are not both just cuts. However, the days when various armor types being more ore less susceptible to them in D&D are over, even if it does still actually make a difference IRL.
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"The edge is for cutting, the point is for killing."
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I dislike debating with you as I find watching you dismember people with words quite entertaining. However, this statement is not entirely correct. At least for 1e:
"Back stabbing is the striking of a blow from behind, be it with club, dagger, or sword. The damage done per hit is twice normal for the weapon used per four experience levels of the thief, i.e. double damage at levels 1-4, triple at 5-8, quadruple at levels 9-12, and quintuple at levels 13-16. Note that striking by surprise from behind also increases the hit probability by 20% (+4 on the thief's "to hit" die roll)." - PHB p 27
So short swords could be used to backstab but you could also use other types of weapons.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Their game definitions are effectively not the same as well from what we can read.
In effect being different type, some monsters also react differently to those, but they are few and sparse.
But 99% of the time, a weapon damage type doesn't matter much, it's just damage vs HP with no other interaction whatsoever.
I loved the gritty specificity of these Elder Scrolls, I mean editions. I miss the multi-page weapons tables... of course hamstringing with a slash is pretty much equal to a 3" jab into everything within a 8" radius of the groin. Mr. Stabby Short-Sword Is a Halflings favorite friend.
Piercing vital organs in the chest cavity will probably result in organ failure, infection and/or gangrene, cardiac arrest from blood loss. we're talking about 9mm hand gun damage, plus penetring damage is wicked.
Many piercing damage weapons don't have disadvantage in Underwater Combats.
should spear guns be added to the table? right next to net and trident?
This has always been my thought as well as the small sword was a weapon used by the common people so the blade was more square and wile it did have enough of an edge to cut you if you applied gripping pressure from a squeeze it was very poor to use for slashing. It was small and light better to thrust and use more like a baton for wrestling in close quarters with an opponent rather than broad shoulder slashes. The sword most people probably see though is a roman gladius or an arming sword which where largely used by the military or by nobility as a decorated symbol of status.
Well, I mean technically a speargun is just an underwater crossbow. This is even backed up by the RAW for underwater combat:
Pretty sure you can fire spear gun-sized projectiles from a spear gun which uses the same arming and firing principle as a crossbow, hence my comparison.
Cutlasses were used as weapons. Small swords were used as decorations. This is in use in proportion to adult humans.
Short stabby swords had little battlefield utility unless used with other accompanying equipment like a whacking great shield (and an army).
Stabby shortswords like the (also swingy) Sting may have been good with littlefolk if we conceived those folk to gain great mobility from their relative lack of inertia. (Yes, a half-sized humanoid may have a quarter of the strength but this is in their carrying of an eighth of the weight). Unless they can utilise this mobility they could still struggle if facing an opponent with a real-world finesse usage of a rapier or spear.
I'd have to somewhat agree with Llethander tbh. What is fired from a modern speargun is a lot more similar to the arrow/bolt size than to the spear size. Using a crossbow to get the functionality of a speargun should be fully doable even with D&D level tech.
Using a crossbow to fire an actual spear is clearly ludicrous but the only one here that thought that was up for discussion is you.
A spear gun is a real world weapon. Used in scuba diving for game-fishing. The spear is basically a long streamlined (maybe 3' long) cross bow bolt. I've seen weapons that use elastic bands or compressed air to fire the spear. Underwater range and effective power would be lower at distance, but they do work. If you can build a x-bow you wouldn't need any new abilities. It-s more sling-shot than onager.
i.e. D&D tech: Daisy pump-action BB gun, gnome craftsmaship, hand pump etc...
Tree sap=Latex=Rubber Bands/tubing. Add some druid magic to add some durability Kick-Ass projectile
Of course not, I don't have access to magic or materials such as Mithril or Adamantine. Get me some Drider webbing and I might be able to make something work, though. It has amazing elastic properties, I hear. :D
But this quote chain has the rule that allows crossbows to work underwater. You're welcome.
as far as the timeline goes A Roman Legionaire wouldn't get the argument, many classical weapons used torsion springs, that used torsion springs made materials wood, rope or sinew. the designs require math's, but requires bronze-age materials, just lacking the maths to design the springs. These devices were a.k.a. siege engines. And thier munitions could easily be 2-4" in diameter.