Did miss that and would agree it would save you. But, out of everything, that is the only one that does, in my eyes. And it is limited to once in 1d4 long rests.
Can't say I see why Necrotic Husk would work but Relentless Endurance or Gift of the Protectors wouldn't. Both triggers on being reduced to 0hp and then drops you to 1hp instead. The only difference I see is that NH says "would be" and uses your reaction and RE/GotP says "are" and are always on. Is that enough of a difference to have NH apply in situations where RE/GotP wouldn't?
Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
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Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
But here is another problem:
True Polymorph states that " If it [Warlock] reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. "
Necrotic Husk states that "when you would be reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction [...]"
At the time, the warlock takes the damage, he is still a larva mage and thus can not use the Necrotic Husk reaction. Will he be able to use his reaction and the point where the damage carries over? Or is the potential trigger of the reaction already in progress, making it to late to react?
Can't say I see why Necrotic Husk would work but Relentless Endurance or Gift of the Protectors wouldn't. Both triggers on being reduced to 0hp and then drops you to 1hp instead. The only difference I see is that NH says "would be" and uses your reaction and RE/GotP says "are" and are always on. Is that enough of a difference to have NH apply in situations where RE/GotP wouldn't?
Yes. "Would Be" means it triggers before HP are actually reduced to zero (though it's badly worded for other reasons).
Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
But here is another problem:
True Polymorph states that " If it [Warlock] reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. "
Necrotic Husk states that "when you would be reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction [...]"
At the time, the warlock takes the damage, he is still a larva mage and thus can not use the Necrotic Husk reaction. Will he be able to use his reaction and the point where the damage carries over? Or is the potential trigger of the reaction already in progress, making it to late to react?
No, while under True Poly you no longer have any class abilities. So, if TP is in play, Necrotic Husk is not.
And since the beam autokills you, TP offers no protection. It is debatable about the larva mage's ability, but then as discussed, it likely won't, so TP = you dead. If not TP and using Necotic Husk = you live, at 1 hp, saved once while the warforged gets to recharge and use the beam multiple times.
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Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
But here is another problem:
True Polymorph states that " If it [Warlock] reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. "
Necrotic Husk states that "when you would be reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction [...]"
At the time, the warlock takes the damage, he is still a larva mage and thus can not use the Necrotic Husk reaction. Will he be able to use his reaction and the point where the damage carries over? Or is the potential trigger of the reaction already in progress, making it to late to react?
No, while under True Poly you no longer have any class abilities. So, if TP is in play, Necrotic Husk is not.
And since the beam autokills you, TP offers no protection. It is debatable about the larva mage's ability, but then as discussed, it likely won't, so TP = you dead. If not TP and using Necotic Husk = you live, at 1 hp, saved once while the warforged gets to recharge and use the beam multiple times.
So you would say that the Warlock killed himself by polymorphing into a creature with a death bypassing effect? I am not saying you are wrong, but as the player of the warlock i would be really angry at that point. :D
I would say the Warlock was killed by the Warforged Colossus.
Against most other things, the strategy is sound and the larva mage's ability would be decent, stacking nicely with the protection of TP and then with the Warlock's other protections. But just not against this enemy. Disintegration effects and bypassing protections like these is what makes these enemies so dangerous. It's CR 25 -- we're talking a few levels shy of GODs. Yeah, sometimes your protections won't cut it - that's deliberately why they're high CR.
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In the case of an attack that doesn't have a disintegration effect, the attacker just chooses to resolve the true polymorph ending first, making return to worms still not do anything.
Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
But here is another problem:
True Polymorph states that " If it [Warlock] reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. "
Necrotic Husk states that "when you would be reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction [...]"
At the time, the warlock takes the damage, he is still a larva mage and thus can not use the Necrotic Husk reaction. Will he be able to use his reaction and the point where the damage carries over? Or is the potential trigger of the reaction already in progress, making it to late to react?
No, while under True Poly you no longer have any class abilities. So, if TP is in play, Necrotic Husk is not.
And since the beam autokills you, TP offers no protection. It is debatable about the larva mage's ability, but then as discussed, it likely won't, so TP = you dead. If not TP and using Necotic Husk = you live, at 1 hp, saved once while the warforged gets to recharge and use the beam multiple times.
So you would say that the Warlock killed himself by polymorphing into a creature with a death bypassing effect? I am not saying you are wrong, but as the player of the warlock i would be really angry at that point. :D
I'd tell a player, "RAW, the warlock dies but, considering that the margins are tiny and RAF, we can let the warlock live."
Maybe there could be an out of time patron visitation to work out possible terms of ~reintegration.
Wish I could find the rule about 2 things either happening at the beginning of your turn, or 2 things happening at the end of your turn. And how it explains that the character, not the DM or monster, get to decide which effect occurs first.
You're looking for Simultaneous Effects, and it specifies that the character whose turn it is decides.
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.
This has weird effects such as the exact same attack working differently if you ready it than if you do it on your turn, because the readied action is done on someone else's turn, so I would prefer
If two or more things happen at the same time to a character or monster, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.
which has the same outcome in the case XGTE is talking about, but is more consistent in other conditions, but RAW is the first version.
Wish I could find the rule about 2 things either happening at the beginning of your turn, or 2 things happening at the end of your turn. And how it explains that the character, not the DM or monster, get to decide which effect occurs first.
You're looking for Simultaneous Effects, and it specifies that the character whose turn it is decides.
If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.
This has weird effects such as the exact same attack working differently if you ready it than if you do it on your turn, because the readied action is done on someone else's turn, so I would prefer
If two or more things happen at the same time to a character or monster, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen.
which has the same outcome in the case XGTE is talking about, but is more consistent in other conditions, but RAW is the first version.
Thank-you.
Still curious how simultaneous effects rules relate to situations when ...
a non-player creature disintegration of a player target;
a player creature disintegration of a non-player target;
a player creature PvP disintegration a player target
... in regard to the other conditions we've described above?
I'm still favouring a RAW interpretation (#24) that the disintegration happens as a concurrent and conclusive effect of the damage-causing action though I think I'd likely handwave.
something else to consider... the highlighted in red and green statements below are from the disintegrate spell...
A creature targeted by this spell must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes 10d6 + 40 force damage. The target is disintegrated if this damage leaves it with 0 hit points.
A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell.
now consider the parts highlighted in green...
if the target is disintegrated it is fine gray dust and cannot revert from the true polymorph into the warlock
in addition, is the warlock book of secret shadows also fine gray dust?
It doesn’t matter; the Book of Shadows turns to ash when you die by any means.
now there are 2 effects that trigger when reduced to 0 hp before being disintegrated...
1. the turn to worms thing
2. the revert from true polymorph thing
does the caster of the disintegrate get to decide which of these occurs 1st?
If it matters what order they happen in, then the active human at the table will determine order. So if the spell is happening on the caster's turn and the caster is a PC, the human playing the caster decides. Likewise for on any PC's turn (that PC's player) or any NPC's turn (the DM).
But SagaTympana gave the correct answer back on page 1 of this thread, in the very first response post, so I'm not sure what else to cover. I'll recap Saga's answer with your question specifically covered:
Target is reduced to 0 hit points.
Note: OP asked about True Polymorph after an hour duration, which means the spell is over and the target is a star spawn larva mage until the transformation is dispelled - being reduced to 0 hit points won't end the transformation, and neither will death. But since you're asking about the spell ending, I am answering as if the hour duration was not yet up, so the spell is subject to ending when the target hits 0 hit points.
2 simultaneous effects try to happen: the polymorph transformation ends and the larva mage turns into a swarm of insects. Active human at the table determines order, which will determine what onlookers see:
Option 1: swarm first. The target turns into a swarm of insects, then into their original body.
Option 2: transformation first. The target reverts to their original form, which means the second effect never happens. At the DM's discretion, you could have the original body turn into a swarm and then back into the original body, of course.
Target is now in original body and takes additional damage, as per OP's original conditions. This drops the original body to 0 hit points.
Original body disintegrates, per the spell text.
As Gift of the Protectors has not been satisfied, it does not trigger, and nothing happens.
Player Characters are not killed outright from being reduced to 0 hp, they instead fall unconscious and begin making death saving throws on their next turn.
Unless they are reduced to -HP, or some other effect, such as disintegrate, causes them to die immediately.
The disintegrate spell is not exempt from this either. It has to not only reduce a target to 0 hp but leave them there.
Syntax of that spell is a bit weird, the timing isn't as clear as some other spells, so you might be right. However, if they get disintegrated by a Beholder there's no such question.
Death ray does more damage and also kills at zero, but disintegration does mean someone needs True Resurrection. I would note that it actually depends in this case -- if eye ray is used as part of a legendary action the player whose turn the LA was taken on chooses the order. Which is another reason to dislike the XGTE rule.
Simultaneous effects are determined by the character whose turn it is. Legendary actions occur on other creature's turns. Thus, if a legendary action triggers simultaneous effects, their order is determined by the character on whose turn the legendary action was taken.
Death ray does more damage and also kills at zero, but disintegration does mean someone needs True Resurrection. I would note that it actually depends in this case -- if eye ray is used as part of a legendary action the player whose turn the LA was taken on chooses the order. Which is another reason to dislike the XGTE rule.
The disintegrate feature in the beholders stat block does not contain the prohibitive language for resurrection features that the disintegrate spell contains.
for player options this basically expands the availability to the lowest option being the resurrection spell at 7th level since it seems to be the lowest spell available that restores life AND limbs.
this kind of helps out a dm I guess with explanations of various resurrection methods, but the FM could just say pretty much anything to keep the story going anyways.
this is similar to the difference between the invisibility spell and the invisibility feature an important has. They are similar but slightly different.
The disintegrate feature in the beholders stat block does not contain the prohibitive language for resurrection features that the disintegrate spell contains.
It doesn't need it. A pile of dust isn't a dead creature.
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Can't say I see why Necrotic Husk would work but Relentless Endurance or Gift of the Protectors wouldn't. Both triggers on being reduced to 0hp and then drops you to 1hp instead. The only difference I see is that NH says "would be" and uses your reaction and RE/GotP says "are" and are always on. Is that enough of a difference to have NH apply in situations where RE/GotP wouldn't?
Gift/Etc work if "you are left with 0 HP and not killed outright" while Necro Husk is "if you would be reduced to 0 hp you can use reaction to go to 1 hp instead". With the former you still hit 0 hp, and if not immediately dying you go to 1 hp. With NH you don't actually hit 0 hp as the trigger occurs before you do. The "instead" is very important there.
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But here is another problem:
True Polymorph states that " If it [Warlock] reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. "
Necrotic Husk states that "when you would be reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction [...]"
At the time, the warlock takes the damage, he is still a larva mage and thus can not use the Necrotic Husk reaction. Will he be able to use his reaction and the point where the damage carries over? Or is the potential trigger of the reaction already in progress, making it to late to react?
Yes. "Would Be" means it triggers before HP are actually reduced to zero (though it's badly worded for other reasons).
No, while under True Poly you no longer have any class abilities. So, if TP is in play, Necrotic Husk is not.
And since the beam autokills you, TP offers no protection. It is debatable about the larva mage's ability, but then as discussed, it likely won't, so TP = you dead. If not TP and using Necotic Husk = you live, at 1 hp, saved once while the warforged gets to recharge and use the beam multiple times.
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So you would say that the Warlock killed himself by polymorphing into a creature with a death bypassing effect? I am not saying you are wrong, but as the player of the warlock i would be really angry at that point. :D
I would say the Warlock was killed by the Warforged Colossus.
Against most other things, the strategy is sound and the larva mage's ability would be decent, stacking nicely with the protection of TP and then with the Warlock's other protections. But just not against this enemy. Disintegration effects and bypassing protections like these is what makes these enemies so dangerous. It's CR 25 -- we're talking a few levels shy of GODs. Yeah, sometimes your protections won't cut it - that's deliberately why they're high CR.
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In the case of an attack that doesn't have a disintegration effect, the attacker just chooses to resolve the true polymorph ending first, making return to worms still not do anything.
I'd tell a player, "RAW, the warlock dies but, considering that the margins are tiny and RAF, we can let the warlock live."
Maybe there could be an out of time patron visitation to work out possible terms of ~reintegration.
You're looking for Simultaneous Effects, and it specifies that the character whose turn it is decides.
This has weird effects such as the exact same attack working differently if you ready it than if you do it on your turn, because the readied action is done on someone else's turn, so I would prefer
which has the same outcome in the case XGTE is talking about, but is more consistent in other conditions, but RAW is the first version.
Thank-you.
Still curious how simultaneous effects rules relate to situations when ...
... in regard to the other conditions we've described above?
I'm still favouring a RAW interpretation (#24) that the disintegration happens as a concurrent and conclusive effect of the damage-causing action though I think I'd likely handwave.
It doesn’t matter; the Book of Shadows turns to ash when you die by any means.
Actually, it isn't, because they aren't simultaneous effects -- 'would be reduced to 0 hp' is before 'is reduced to 0 hp'.
If it matters what order they happen in, then the active human at the table will determine order. So if the spell is happening on the caster's turn and the caster is a PC, the human playing the caster decides. Likewise for on any PC's turn (that PC's player) or any NPC's turn (the DM).
But SagaTympana gave the correct answer back on page 1 of this thread, in the very first response post, so I'm not sure what else to cover. I'll recap Saga's answer with your question specifically covered:
Unless they are reduced to -HP, or some other effect, such as disintegrate, causes them to die immediately.
Syntax of that spell is a bit weird, the timing isn't as clear as some other spells, so you might be right. However, if they get disintegrated by a Beholder there's no such question.
Death ray does more damage and also kills at zero, but disintegration does mean someone needs True Resurrection. I would note that it actually depends in this case -- if eye ray is used as part of a legendary action the player whose turn the LA was taken on chooses the order. Which is another reason to dislike the XGTE rule.
Simultaneous effects are determined by the character whose turn it is. Legendary actions occur on other creature's turns. Thus, if a legendary action triggers simultaneous effects, their order is determined by the character on whose turn the legendary action was taken.
The disintegrate feature in the beholders stat block does not contain the prohibitive language for resurrection features that the disintegrate spell contains.
for player options this basically expands the availability to the lowest option being the resurrection spell at 7th level since it seems to be the lowest spell available that restores life AND limbs.
this kind of helps out a dm I guess with explanations of various resurrection methods, but the FM could just say pretty much anything to keep the story going anyways.
this is similar to the difference between the invisibility spell and the invisibility feature an important has. They are similar but slightly different.
It doesn't need it. A pile of dust isn't a dead creature.