But at our session yesterday, my 5th-level Artificer's Homunculus Servant got caught in a Thunderwave and took 13 damage, which was more than its 10HP maximum. I described that its wings broke and the gem heart fell to the ground, assuming that it counted as dead, but then again it wasn't over double its max HP so it'd be in the realm where most party members would make saving throws.
I know that familiars from Find Familiar vanish once they drop to 0 HP and you need to recast the spell to bring them back. But with the Servant, you can heal them 2d6 HP by casting Mending. That takes a full minute, though, so it wouldn't be quick enough for the usual "heal before 3 death save failures". How do you stabilize a Construct at 0HP?
In any case, I know the Battle Smith's Steel Defender has particular language about being able to revive them within 1 hour of death by using a spell slot, which the Servant lacks. So that's not looking good for me getting my little Beetle back until the next day when I can re-Infuse.
Any thoughts? I can roll with whatever, I just wondered if there's RAW for this situation.
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I mean, they are not player characters so I would assume they don't make a saving throw. The same way a summon wouldn't, although most summons do specifically say "when reduced to 0 hp" yada yada yada that you already mentioned.
I wouldn't have them make death saves because they can be repaired much in the same way as equipment can be, via the mending spell.
I dont know where you see that. The only thing I see is from the PHB
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
So RAW most monsters, unless the DM makes an exception, die the instant they drop to zero. So it seams like to me RAW is, the DM chooses.
That Quote shows an optional rule that dms can make monsters an exception to general death saves.(but dosen't have to). The general rule is creatures make death saves.
I would rule it dies, no death saves. I can certainly see a nice DM ruling otherwise and allowing death saves. You are right about mending taking too long, you can just always hope you pass the death saves. Maybe get the paladin to stand nearby or have someone give it a bless or something.
All creatures CAN make death saving throws, but it is up to the DM for whether NPC monsters actually do. I would imagine it is a discussion to have with your DM. I might let the player choose. But for both the homunculus and the steel defender, they’re fairly easily replaced. Maybe not back immediately but certainly within a day.
Again, where do you see that? This is the ONLY rule I found in relation to nonPCs making death saves.
Since you don't know, the PHB combat section applies equally to PCs and monsters. It says so in the chapter into:
Throughout this chapter, the rules address you, the player or Dungeon Master. The Dungeon Master controls all the monsters and nonplayer characters involved in combat, and each other player controls an adventurer. “You” can also mean the character or monster that you control.
So when it says "Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw," it actually means "Whenever a character or monster start their turn with 0 hit points, that character or monster must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw," as the general rule.
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
As a special exception to speed up the game by not having hoards of enemies rolling saves every round... It also mentions special NPCs (like pets and allies) as exceptions to the exception.
Gotcha, I totally missed the beginning about addressing the player or dungeon master.
I also want to make it clear that I was not arguing against monsters being able to make death saves, but just the nature of the default making death saves versus not.
Gotcha, I totally missed the beginning about addressing the player or dungeon master.
I also want to make it clear that I was not arguing against monsters being able to make death saves, but just the nature of the default making death saves versus not.
I didn't get any negative tone from you about it. I just was on my phone so trying to save Typing. There are several people who actively troll the ranger/pet class forums. that's why I knew the rule. Thanks DxJxC for explaining it better than I could.
I guess we could've played it as Beetle falling to the ground, sparking... but then it would've taken damage from falling 15 ft (1 fail). There was also a subsequent Fireball that may have covered that area. People's actions might've gone differently if Beetle had been rolling death saves, but maybe not too differently. (That Fireball really turned the tide for us in terms of numbers.)
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Need answer fast! (Just kidding.)
But at our session yesterday, my 5th-level Artificer's Homunculus Servant got caught in a Thunderwave and took 13 damage, which was more than its 10HP maximum. I described that its wings broke and the gem heart fell to the ground, assuming that it counted as dead, but then again it wasn't over double its max HP so it'd be in the realm where most party members would make saving throws.
I know that familiars from Find Familiar vanish once they drop to 0 HP and you need to recast the spell to bring them back. But with the Servant, you can heal them 2d6 HP by casting Mending. That takes a full minute, though, so it wouldn't be quick enough for the usual "heal before 3 death save failures". How do you stabilize a Construct at 0HP?
In any case, I know the Battle Smith's Steel Defender has particular language about being able to revive them within 1 hour of death by using a spell slot, which the Servant lacks. So that's not looking good for me getting my little Beetle back until the next day when I can re-Infuse.
Any thoughts? I can roll with whatever, I just wondered if there's RAW for this situation.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I mean, they are not player characters so I would assume they don't make a saving throw. The same way a summon wouldn't, although most summons do specifically say "when reduced to 0 hp" yada yada yada that you already mentioned.
I wouldn't have them make death saves because they can be repaired much in the same way as equipment can be, via the mending spell.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
Raw is all creatures make death saves(unless an exception like familiar or some fiends) the dm can choose to ignore saves for any monsters.
I play a artificer with healer feat and always joke about getting out the duct tape when "healing" the party constructs with a healer's kit.
I dont know where you see that. The only thing I see is from the PHB
Monsters and Death
Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws.
Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters.
So RAW most monsters, unless the DM makes an exception, die the instant they drop to zero. So it seams like to me RAW is, the DM chooses.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
Everything you need to know about Homebrew - Homebrew FAQ - Digital Book on D&D Beyond Vs Physical Books
Can't find the content you are supposed to have access to? Read this FAQ.
"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
That Quote shows an optional rule that dms can make monsters an exception to general death saves.(but dosen't have to). The general rule is creatures make death saves.
I would rule it dies, no death saves. I can certainly see a nice DM ruling otherwise and allowing death saves. You are right about mending taking too long, you can just always hope you pass the death saves. Maybe get the paladin to stand nearby or have someone give it a bless or something.
Again, where do you see that? This is the ONLY rule I found in relation to nonPCs making death saves.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
Everything you need to know about Homebrew - Homebrew FAQ - Digital Book on D&D Beyond Vs Physical Books
Can't find the content you are supposed to have access to? Read this FAQ.
"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
Since you don't know, the PHB combat section applies equally to PCs and monsters. It says so in the chapter into:
So when it says "Whenever you start your turn with 0 hit points, you must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw," it actually means "Whenever a character or monster start their turn with 0 hit points, that character or monster must make a special saving throw, called a death saving throw," as the general rule.
Later the chapter gives:
As a special exception to speed up the game by not having hoards of enemies rolling saves every round... It also mentions special NPCs (like pets and allies) as exceptions to the exception.
Gotcha, I totally missed the beginning about addressing the player or dungeon master.
I also want to make it clear that I was not arguing against monsters being able to make death saves, but just the nature of the default making death saves versus not.
Buyers Guide for D&D Beyond - Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You - How/What is Toggled Content?
Everything you need to know about Homebrew - Homebrew FAQ - Digital Book on D&D Beyond Vs Physical Books
Can't find the content you are supposed to have access to? Read this FAQ.
"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
I didn't get any negative tone from you about it. I just was on my phone so trying to save Typing. There are several people who actively troll the ranger/pet class forums. that's why I knew the rule. Thanks DxJxC for explaining it better than I could.
Thanks for weighing on, folks.
I guess we could've played it as Beetle falling to the ground, sparking... but then it would've taken damage from falling 15 ft (1 fail). There was also a subsequent Fireball that may have covered that area. People's actions might've gone differently if Beetle had been rolling death saves, but maybe not too differently. (That Fireball really turned the tide for us in terms of numbers.)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)