AC and DC have, basically, the same meaning. An attack roll, a skill check, or a saving throw must be equal or higher than the 'DC' to succeed, otherwise it is a fail.
To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. If the total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target's Armor Class (AC), the attack hits.
For the DC (skill checks) here the reference from the PHB.
To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success
For the DC (saving throw) here the reference from the PHB.
One of the easiest ways to remember the answer is a simple phrase: Tie goes to the defender.
AC: if the to hit roll ties with the AC then the defender (AC) wins the exchange.
Spell save: If a creature rolls to save vs a player's spell DC and ties, the defender (creature) wins the exchange.
Skill check: if the player tries to stealth past a guard and the passive/active perception roll ties, the defender (player) wins the exchange.
Ability check: The player tries to push a boulder out of the way, the strength roll ties, the defender (boulder) wins the exchange.
As DM I play the rule a little loose on the ability and skill checks using a sliding scale for result rather than a binary succeed/fail state. Even with that approach the answer is: Tie goes to the defender.
I can't help but notice that the saving throw DC rules lack the concise wording of the AC attack role reference and the DC (skill checks) reference. Again thank you so much for finding all those rules. Here's the SRD version for those who don't own the PBH:
AC and DC have, basically, the same meaning. An attack roll, a skill check, or a saving throw must be equal or higher than the 'DC' to succeed, otherwise it is a fail.
To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers. If the total of the roll plus modifiers equals or exceeds the target's Armor Class (AC), the attack hits.
For the DC (skill checks) here the reference from the PHB.
To make an ability check, roll a d20 and add the relevant ability modifier. As with other d20 rolls, apply bonuses and penalties, and compare the total to the DC. If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success
For the DC (saving throw) here the reference from the PHB.
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"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
Some situations came up in a game this evening. I'm hoping you can clarify as I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
The PC rolls Stealth vs the Monster rolling Perception. Both get the same result (in our case 15). Did the PC sneak past the monster? (I gave it to the PC for no reason at all but it seemed fun at the time).
And another time the PC rolled a grapple check vs the NPC rolling a dex save. Again both got the same result. Did the PC grapple the NPC? (Again I gave it to the PC just for fun.)
It both cases I can't seem to find rules which clarify how to solve these ties.
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"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
For AC vs DC, Armour class is essentially a DC but one used for attacks.
Opposed checks as you describe above that are a draw, have no real winner or loser so it typically means nothing changes (in your examples the PC stayed hidden as they weren't seen, the NPC would remain ungrappled, if they were not already grappled). Personally I take the most logical outcome for "draws".
That said you made the best call, basing it on Fun. If it makes for a much more fun game the specific rule doesn't matter as much. The trick is just to be consistent so you don't confuse players.
Some situations came up in a game this evening. I'm hoping you can clarify as I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
The PC rolls Stealth vs the Monster rolling Perception. Both get the same result (in our case 15). Did the PC sneak past the monster? (I gave it to the PC for no reason at all but it seemed fun at the time).
And another time the PC rolled a grapple check vs the NPC rolling a dex save. Again both got the same result. Did the PC grapple the NPC? (Again I gave it to the PC just for fun.)
It both cases I can't seem to find rules which clarify how to solve these ties.
In the rules for a contest of skills it states that a tie results in no change to the status quo. So if the character was already sneaking when this roll happens, then a ride results in them still sneaking undetected. If the character is currently in sight and is trying to disappear, then a tie results in the player still being seen.
Someone trying to grapple (currently ungrappled), if the roll is a tie they stay ungrappled.
One of the easiest ways to remember the answer is a simple phrase: Tie goes to the defender.
AC: if the to hit roll ties with the AC then the defender (AC) wins the exchange.
Spell save: If a creature rolls to save vs a player's spell DC and ties, the defender (creature) wins the exchange.
Skill check: if the player tries to stealth past a guard and the passive/active perception roll ties, the defender (player) wins the exchange.
Ability check: The player tries to push a boulder out of the way, the strength roll ties, the defender (boulder) wins the exchange.
As DM I play the rule a little loose on the ability and skill checks using a sliding scale for result rather than a binary succeed/fail state. Even with that approach the answer is: Tie goes to the defender.
Ties going to the defender isn't correct when it comes to Attacks and AC. If the Attack roll ties with Armor Class, the Attacker wins and hits the Defender.
So a simple and what i believe is the right way to handle ties is simple it basically is on an equal or greater scale what this means is that a if you roll TO HIT and it ties or is greater it hits meaning it is the same against yout ac as well for SPELLSAVE DCS if your roll against it is equal or greater it succeeds and for SKILL CHECKS passing or equaling the defenders check is a success
Posting in 3 year old threads is a minor sin. The people you are talking to may or may not still have accounts. The suggestion from Stormknight is most likely to be correct unless you can find something written in the rules to say otherwise. "Generally speaking, a tie goes in favor of the person rolling the dice."
Eh i found the thread and posted in it for 2 reasons one being to hopefully clear up or help clear up any confusion and two because well i wanted to help the people who are new to this game, also there is a flaw in the generally the person rolling the dice thing in skill checks against other people both partys are rolling the die, therefore me posting this saying that while yes it goes to the person rolling against the dc but if two pc/npc are rolling the defending character would lose if they tied an example would be stealth and perc if i rolled a 28 stealth and someone rolled a 28 perc id be seen
Fair enough. In the spirit of providing useful information I'll go ahead and discuss things a bit. I am not saying your are wrong, just adding some things for consideration.
D&D is not a PvP game. Players should not, under any circumstances roll dice against each-other. And when people make the claim that this is character against character, this is not really true. Doing this can lead to hard feelings.
When going against NPCs it is just like Stormknight said. The player character should always win if there is a tie. It's more fun that way, and the DM's job is to make things more fun.
RAW, in the case of a contest, a tie means nothing changes. If it's an attack vs AC or a skill check vs a DC, then tie goes to the roller, but in a skill contest, nothing changes. However I do agree that if it's PC vs NPC, a DM should generally allow the PC to win. I wouldn't say players should never under any circumstances roll against each other, but it is usually a bad idea, and at the very least requires a very chill group with no sore losers. I've seen some extremely intense story moments come down to a roll between two players, though.
By the by, things like the Grapple action and Shove action are contests - a tie means nothing changes, which favors the defender.
If the contest results in a tie, the situation remains the same as it was before the contest. Thus, one contestant might win the contest by default. If two characters tie in a contest to snatch a ring off the floor, neither character grabs it. In a contest between a monster trying to open a door and an adventurer trying to keep the door closed, a tie means that the door remains shut.
Some situations came up in a game this evening. I'm hoping you can clarify as I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
The PC rolls Stealth vs the Monster rolling Perception. Both get the same result (in our case 15). Did the PC sneak past the monster? (I gave it to the PC for no reason at all but it seemed fun at the time).
And another time the PC rolled a grapple check vs the NPC rolling a dex save. Again both got the same result. Did the PC grapple the NPC? (Again I gave it to the PC just for fun.)
It both cases I can't seem to find rules which clarify how to solve these ties.
Just one thing, you don't roll dex saves vs grapple checks. You roll a skill check, either Athletics or Acrobatics, where that choice is up to the creature defending against the grapple attempt.
Eh i found the thread and posted in it for 2 reasons one being to hopefully clear up or help clear up any confusion and two because well i wanted to help the people who are new to this game, also there is a flaw in the generally the person rolling the dice thing in skill checks against other people both partys are rolling the die, therefore me posting this saying that while yes it goes to the person rolling against the dc but if two pc/npc are rolling the defending character would lose if they tied an example would be stealth and perc if i rolled a 28 stealth and someone rolled a 28 perc id be seen
Honestly, if you want to help simplify, then you should probably re-phrase your posts here. To me they are super confusing.
I know its not a pvp game and i get what you mean i was just saying for like say a character is upset and trys to hide it and someone trys to see whats wrong or if to charaters want to spar against eachother thats when what i said would go into play
Here is a thought. Usually ties go in favor of the player character. If two player character are involved, it's PvP, and that's ok I guess. Jaysburn pointed out that so long as everyone was fine with it, it could work. Jaysburn also made a point about how in a Contest nothing happens, and you just keep rolling until someone wins. You could treat a tie between someone trying to use perception to see someone else who is trying to hide. Sparring is a Contest. It is also true that during most contests in the real world, there are rules for sparing, and a referee.
In D&D the DM is the referee. It is possible that the reason there is no hard and fast rule (about ties except in things like contests), about who wins in a tie is so that the referee can make the call without violating the rules. I tend to decide in favor of the one rolling the dice, and I don't allow PvP of any kind in my games because I'm not chill with it myself.
Holy necrothread Batman! I'm still here and playing D&D with my same pals (we are in the middle of Rime of the Frostmaiden currently). We have a mantra at our table now "Meets it, beats it." Thanks to all the posters who help me here and with other rules questions over the years.
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"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
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We kept getting confused about equal or beats AC vs DC.
If a character equals an AC on a to hit roll, is it a hit?
If a character equals the DC on a saving throw, do they save?
If a character equals the DC on a skill check, do they succeed?
If a character equals the DC on an ability check, do they succeed?
Also where is the rules is this stated? Thanks for your help!
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
AC and DC have, basically, the same meaning. An attack roll, a skill check, or a saving throw must be equal or higher than the 'DC' to succeed, otherwise it is a fail.
For the AC here the reference from the PHB.
For the DC (skill checks) here the reference from the PHB.
For the DC (saving throw) here the reference from the PHB.
Thank you so much. I seem to have a lot of trouble finding these specific rules.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
One of the easiest ways to remember the answer is a simple phrase: Tie goes to the defender.
As DM I play the rule a little loose on the ability and skill checks using a sliding scale for result rather than a binary succeed/fail state. Even with that approach the answer is: Tie goes to the defender.
I'd be a bit careful with that phrase though, as an attack roll that is a tie with the AC of the defender is a success for the attacker.
Generally speaking, a tie goes in favour of the person rolling the dice.
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I can't help but notice that the saving throw DC rules lack the concise wording of the AC attack role reference and the DC (skill checks) reference. Again thank you so much for finding all those rules. Here's the SRD version for those who don't own the PBH:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/combat#MakinganAttack
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#AbilityChecks
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/using-ability-scores#SavingThrows
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
Some situations came up in a game this evening. I'm hoping you can clarify as I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
The PC rolls Stealth vs the Monster rolling Perception. Both get the same result (in our case 15). Did the PC sneak past the monster? (I gave it to the PC for no reason at all but it seemed fun at the time).
And another time the PC rolled a grapple check vs the NPC rolling a dex save. Again both got the same result. Did the PC grapple the NPC? (Again I gave it to the PC just for fun.)
It both cases I can't seem to find rules which clarify how to solve these ties.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer
For AC vs DC, Armour class is essentially a DC but one used for attacks.
Opposed checks as you describe above that are a draw, have no real winner or loser so it typically means nothing changes (in your examples the PC stayed hidden as they weren't seen, the NPC would remain ungrappled, if they were not already grappled). Personally I take the most logical outcome for "draws".
That said you made the best call, basing it on Fun. If it makes for a much more fun game the specific rule doesn't matter as much. The trick is just to be consistent so you don't confuse players.
- Loswaith
So a simple and what i believe is the right way to handle ties is simple it basically is on an equal or greater scale what this means is that a if you roll TO HIT and it ties or is greater it hits meaning it is the same against yout ac as well for SPELLSAVE DCS if your roll against it is equal or greater it succeeds and for SKILL CHECKS passing or equaling the defenders check is a success
Posting in 3 year old threads is a minor sin. The people you are talking to may or may not still have accounts. The suggestion from Stormknight is most likely to be correct unless you can find something written in the rules to say otherwise. "Generally speaking, a tie goes in favor of the person rolling the dice."
<Insert clever signature here>
Eh i found the thread and posted in it for 2 reasons one being to hopefully clear up or help clear up any confusion and two because well i wanted to help the people who are new to this game, also there is a flaw in the generally the person rolling the dice thing in skill checks against other people both partys are rolling the die, therefore me posting this saying that while yes it goes to the person rolling against the dc but if two pc/npc are rolling the defending character would lose if they tied an example would be stealth and perc if i rolled a 28 stealth and someone rolled a 28 perc id be seen
Fair enough. In the spirit of providing useful information I'll go ahead and discuss things a bit. I am not saying your are wrong, just adding some things for consideration.
D&D is not a PvP game. Players should not, under any circumstances roll dice against each-other. And when people make the claim that this is character against character, this is not really true. Doing this can lead to hard feelings.
When going against NPCs it is just like Stormknight said. The player character should always win if there is a tie. It's more fun that way, and the DM's job is to make things more fun.
<Insert clever signature here>
RAW, in the case of a contest, a tie means nothing changes. If it's an attack vs AC or a skill check vs a DC, then tie goes to the roller, but in a skill contest, nothing changes. However I do agree that if it's PC vs NPC, a DM should generally allow the PC to win. I wouldn't say players should never under any circumstances roll against each other, but it is usually a bad idea, and at the very least requires a very chill group with no sore losers. I've seen some extremely intense story moments come down to a roll between two players, though.
By the by, things like the Grapple action and Shove action are contests - a tie means nothing changes, which favors the defender.
Just one thing, you don't roll dex saves vs grapple checks. You roll a skill check, either Athletics or Acrobatics, where that choice is up to the creature defending against the grapple attempt.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Honestly, if you want to help simplify, then you should probably re-phrase your posts here. To me they are super confusing.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I know its not a pvp game and i get what you mean i was just saying for like say a character is upset and trys to hide it and someone trys to see whats wrong or if to charaters want to spar against eachother thats when what i said would go into play
Sorry guess i didnt really elaborate very well
Here is a thought. Usually ties go in favor of the player character. If two player character are involved, it's PvP, and that's ok I guess. Jaysburn pointed out that so long as everyone was fine with it, it could work. Jaysburn also made a point about how in a Contest nothing happens, and you just keep rolling until someone wins. You could treat a tie between someone trying to use perception to see someone else who is trying to hide. Sparring is a Contest. It is also true that during most contests in the real world, there are rules for sparing, and a referee.
In D&D the DM is the referee. It is possible that the reason there is no hard and fast rule (about ties except in things like contests), about who wins in a tie is so that the referee can make the call without violating the rules. I tend to decide in favor of the one rolling the dice, and I don't allow PvP of any kind in my games because I'm not chill with it myself.
<Insert clever signature here>
Holy necrothread Batman! I'm still here and playing D&D with my same pals (we are in the middle of Rime of the Frostmaiden currently). We have a mantra at our table now "Meets it, beats it." Thanks to all the posters who help me here and with other rules questions over the years.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." – William Gibson, Neuromancer