"a space large enough for a Small creature" is not the same as a space that "is large enough for a small creature to squeeze through". A space that's large enough for a Small creature is defined in the rules for Creature Size -- a Small creature occupies 1 square. This wording does not allow for moving through a Tiny space.
RAW, you can pass through a Tiny creature and it's not Difficult Terrain:
During your move, you can pass through the space of an ally, a creature that has the Incapacitated condition (see the rules glossary), a Tiny creature, or a creature that is two sizes larger or smaller than you.
Another creature’s space is Difficult Terrain for you unless that creature is Tiny or your ally.
It looks like you read the last few posts a little too quickly. Nobody is talking about passing through a space occupied by a Tiny creature.
"a space large enough for a Small creature" is not the same as a space that "is large enough for a small creature to squeeze through". A space that's large enough for a Small creature is defined in the rules for Creature Size -- a Small creature occupies 1 square. This wording does not allow for moving through a Tiny space.
RAW, you can pass through a Tiny creature and it's not Difficult Terrain:
During your move, you can pass through the space of an ally, a creature that has the Incapacitated condition (see the rules glossary), a Tiny creature, or a creature that is two sizes larger or smaller than you.
Another creature’s space is Difficult Terrain for you unless that creature is Tiny or your ally.
It looks like you read the last few posts a little too quickly. Nobody is talking about passing through a space occupied by a Tiny creature.
A space "large enough for a small creature to squeeze through" is a space large enough for a small creature; however, it is considered difficult terrain. If it wasn't large enough for a small creature, then it would not be able to go there at all. And a small creature occupies a 5 foot square for the purposes of combat on a grid. That does not mean that a small creature cannot move through a physical space smaller than a 5ft. square--which would be ridiculous. That would mean that 4 foot halfling couldn't walk through a 4.5 foot square door without squeezing. You're looking at the wrong rules. You should look at how difficult terrain is defined. The purpose of this in the context of the Bugbear is to fulfill the fantasy of it being this hulking monster that can somehow hide underneath a bed.
My last dungeon had tiny tunnels that only Small creatures could crawl through, they were 2.5 feet in diameter so most party member couldn't access them except the halfling and the tiny monsters that dug them.
My comment is based off of the quote that you provided in an earlier post which read like this:
“without squeezing, you can move through and stop in a space large enough for a Small creature.”
This particular wording is referring to a space that a small creature occupies, not a space in which a small creature is able to squeeze through. If the authors had meant that then they would have written that. Your claim is false according to the rules as written.
In the 2014 PHB, squeezing is a term used on pg. 192 in the section called "squeezing into a smaller space". That paragraph begins: A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it.... This paragraph goes on to give examples of physical spaces, not squares that creatures occupy. And note that the word "occupy" is not used in the author's text for the Bugbear. So, in the quote "without squeezing, you can move through and stop in a space large enough for a Small creature", the authors use the word "squeeze" which connects it to the only place the word appears in the PHB on page 192 referring to moving through physical spaces in the game environment.
A similar statement in regards to physical space might be: Without jumping, you can touch and grab an object that a Large creature can reach. This means, "without the need to jump, you can reach and grab an object that a large creature can reach." Likewise, the sentence about Bugbears means "Without the need to squeeze, you can move through and stop in a space that is large enough for a Small creature." A "space that is large enough for a small creature" is simply a space in the game environment that a small creature can move into or through. That includes spaces that a small creature can squeeze into since a space that a small creature can squeeze into IS a space large enough for a small creature. If it wasn't, the creature wouldn't be able to go there at all.
Better than a small creature actually because it says "without squeezing". So a bugbear can enter any space a small creature can without the need to squeeze.
A claim is a statement made without facts to support it. I've supported my opinion with facts and references to the pages they appear on in the PHB. But it's your world, boss. The rest of us are just living in it.
A claim is a statement made without facts to support it.
Naw, a claim is any statement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I figured the "other people might not believe it" was a given, what with other people not believing it and all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Interestingly, “Squeezing” is officially an “obsolete” game term In the 2024 PHB. The introduction to the Glossary advises you to look in the Index for any terms which are obsolete and, indeed, Squeezing is listed in the Index, whence it directs you to the Creature Size and Difficult Terrain rules.
Yeah, good riddance to that term. They explain it much more clearly in 2024 and put it more appropriately in the Difficult Terrain section where it belongs. I thought it was clever that they included it in the Index like you mentioned. That's a big help for transitioning out of old terminology.
Interestingly, “Squeezing” is officially an “obsolete” game term In the 2024 PHB. The introduction to the Glossary advises you to look in the Index for any terms which are obsolete and, indeed, Squeezing is listed in the Index, whence it directs you to the Creature Size and Difficult Terrain rules.
I hope I'm not being to dense, but I've read through that section and I can't find how the new rules treat a creature fighting in a space smaller than the space it requires to fight, nor move through that smaller space. Can anyone help me to the rules for those? Thanks!
I hope I'm not being to dense, but I've read through that section and I can't find how the new rules treat a creature fighting in a space smaller than the space it requires to fight, nor move through that smaller space. Can anyone help me to the rules for those? Thanks!
A space is Difficult Terrain if it contains a narrow opening sized for a creature one size smaller than you.
I hope I'm not being to dense, but I've read through that section and I can't find how the new rules treat a creature fighting in a space smaller than the space it requires to fight, nor move through that smaller space. Can anyone help me to the rules for those? Thanks!
A space is Difficult Terrain if it contains a narrow opening sized for a creature one size smaller than you.
There no longer seems to be any effect on creatures fighting within spaces sized for a creature one size smaller than them (previously imposed disadvantage, I believe).
I’ve also not found any rules about creatures moving through a space sized for creatures two or more sizes smaller than them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It looks like you read the last few posts a little too quickly. Nobody is talking about passing through a space occupied by a Tiny creature.
Just in case.
A space "large enough for a small creature to squeeze through" is a space large enough for a small creature; however, it is considered difficult terrain. If it wasn't large enough for a small creature, then it would not be able to go there at all. And a small creature occupies a 5 foot square for the purposes of combat on a grid. That does not mean that a small creature cannot move through a physical space smaller than a 5ft. square--which would be ridiculous. That would mean that 4 foot halfling couldn't walk through a 4.5 foot square door without squeezing. You're looking at the wrong rules. You should look at how difficult terrain is defined. The purpose of this in the context of the Bugbear is to fulfill the fantasy of it being this hulking monster that can somehow hide underneath a bed.
My last dungeon had tiny tunnels that only Small creatures could crawl through, they were 2.5 feet in diameter so most party member couldn't access them except the halfling and the tiny monsters that dug them.
I crawled through this hole at Todai-ji temple in Nara and it's roughly 18" wide--though most sources say even less (around 14.5"). It's been widened over the years by so many people going through it. https://twoyeartrip.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/20140603-185427.jpg
My comment is based off of the quote that you provided in an earlier post which read like this:
“without squeezing, you can move through and stop in a space large enough for a Small creature.”
This particular wording is referring to a space that a small creature occupies, not a space in which a small creature is able to squeeze through. If the authors had meant that then they would have written that. Your claim is false according to the rules as written.
In the 2014 PHB, squeezing is a term used on pg. 192 in the section called "squeezing into a smaller space". That paragraph begins: A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it.... This paragraph goes on to give examples of physical spaces, not squares that creatures occupy. And note that the word "occupy" is not used in the author's text for the Bugbear. So, in the quote "without squeezing, you can move through and stop in a space large enough for a Small creature", the authors use the word "squeeze" which connects it to the only place the word appears in the PHB on page 192 referring to moving through physical spaces in the game environment.
A similar statement in regards to physical space might be: Without jumping, you can touch and grab an object that a Large creature can reach. This means, "without the need to jump, you can reach and grab an object that a large creature can reach." Likewise, the sentence about Bugbears means "Without the need to squeeze, you can move through and stop in a space that is large enough for a Small creature." A "space that is large enough for a small creature" is simply a space in the game environment that a small creature can move into or through. That includes spaces that a small creature can squeeze into since a space that a small creature can squeeze into IS a space large enough for a small creature. If it wasn't, the creature wouldn't be able to go there at all.
So, basically, it just means that a bugbear counts as small when it comes to squeezing rules? So it can squeeze through a tiny space?
Roll for Initiative: [roll]1d20+7[/roll]
Proud member of the EVIL JEFF CULT! PRAISE JEFF!
Homebrew Races: HERE Homebrew Spells: HERE Homebrew Monsters: HERE
MORE OF ME! (And platypodes/platypi/platypuses) (Extended signature)
That's the claim but it's false since that's not what the feature says.
Better than a small creature actually because it says "without squeezing". So a bugbear can enter any space a small creature can without the need to squeeze.
A claim is a statement made without facts to support it. I've supported my opinion with facts and references to the pages they appear on in the PHB. But it's your world, boss. The rest of us are just living in it.
Naw, a claim is any statement.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/claim
I figured the "other people might not believe it" was a given, what with other people not believing it and all.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Interestingly, “Squeezing” is officially an “obsolete” game term In the 2024 PHB. The introduction to the Glossary advises you to look in the Index for any terms which are obsolete and, indeed, Squeezing is listed in the Index, whence it directs you to the Creature Size and Difficult Terrain rules.
Yeah, good riddance to that term. They explain it much more clearly in 2024 and put it more appropriately in the Difficult Terrain section where it belongs. I thought it was clever that they included it in the Index like you mentioned. That's a big help for transitioning out of old terminology.
I haven't noticed that. Thanks!
That confirms my theory 😅
I hope I'm not being to dense, but I've read through that section and I can't find how the new rules treat a creature fighting in a space smaller than the space it requires to fight, nor move through that smaller space. Can anyone help me to the rules for those? Thanks!
A space is Difficult Terrain if it contains a narrow opening sized for a creature one size smaller than you.
There no longer seems to be any effect on creatures fighting within spaces sized for a creature one size smaller than them (previously imposed disadvantage, I believe).
I’ve also not found any rules about creatures moving through a space sized for creatures two or more sizes smaller than them.