Empowered Evocation -Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast.
wand of magic missile
This wand has 7 charges. While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it. For 1 charge, you cast the 1st-level version of the spell. You can increase the spell slot level by one for each additional charge you expend.
so do i get Intelligence modifier with wand of magic missile?
No, you don't get to add your Intelligence modifier. It's not technically a wizard spell if you're casting it from a magic item.
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True, but the feature doesn't require you to take the [Tooltip Not Found] action. It just requires you to cast a spell. The Wand of Magic Missiles says very clearly that it lets you cast the spell.
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I agree that you probably shouldn't be allowed to use the Feature in this way, but I don't think it's for either of those reasons.
I think it's this:
"While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it."
You are using an action to expend charges. The expending of the charges is what enables a spell to be cast from it.
It's close though -- I'm sure plenty of DMs would allow it.
"For 1 charge, you cast the 1st-level version of the spell."
Even if the spell is being cast from the wand, it isn't being cast by the wand. You are casting the spell (from the wand).
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And since it is a wizard evocation spell (I just doubled checked and Magic Missile is on the wizard spell list and is an evocation spell) you do indeed get to add your INT bonus to the damage roll. At least that is the RAW interpretation but some DMs might not like it.
Yes, magic missile is an evocation spell that is on the wizard spell list, but that doesn't always mean that it's a wizard spell. From the PHB:
Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes
This is somewhat esoteric, but there's an answer from the Sage Advice Column that clears up what it means:
From the multiclassing rules: “Each spell you know and prepare is associated with one of your classes”. This rule means only the spells gained from levels in sorcerer trigger Wild Magic Surge.
For reference, Wild Magic Surge uses the following wording:
Once per turn, the DM can have you roll a d20 immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher.
It essentially talks about the spell in the same way that Empowered Evocation does, and thanks to SAC we know that it doesn't work unless the spell comes directly from the class. From this, we can tell what the rule in question means: it isn't a wizard spell unless you learned it from being a wizard.
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I'd have to agree with Brian here. The rule that says "no double dipping when multiclassing" isn't relevant here. There is no equivalent rule in the rules about casting from items so I'd say that it counts.
I don't think there's any doubt that you are casting the spell, so the question that remains is "is it a wizard spell when it comes from the item?"
And, as far I can see, the answer from the rules is 🤷
Quar1on's example is the closest thing to a relevant official ruling, and, while it's for a different context, it seems pretty clear that a spell only counts as a class spell if you learned it with the class's spell preparation ability.
(On the other hand, if you rule it the other way, it's honestly no big deal.)
As I recall, when you use a magic item to cast a spell it is treated as though the spell is cast by the item, and not you. That's why magic items that cast spells that include an attack roll or saving throw have a set attack bonus or save DC. A magic item has to go out of its way to say that using it uses your spell save DC or spell attack bonus, because that's not inherently true. For example, all Spell Scrolls have a spell attack bonus and DC based on what level spell it is. No matter who is casting a 1st level spell using a spell scroll, that spell will always have a spell save DC of 13 and/or a spell attack bonus of +5. Doesn't matter your own stats, because you're not casting the spell... the scroll is casting the spell.
The feature Empowered Evocation let you add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast.
A Wand of magic missiles allow the user to cast magic missilel from it, which is a wizard evocation spell, being on the respective class spell list and school;
Chapter11: Spells This chapter describes the most common spells in the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons . The chapter begins with the spell lists of the spellcasting classes. The remainder contains spell descriptions, presented in alphabetical order by the name of the spell.
As I recall, when you use a magic item to cast a spell it is treated as though the spell is cast by the item, and not you. That's why magic items that cast spells that include an attack roll or saving throw have a set attack bonus or save DC. A magic item has to go out of its way to say that using it uses your spell save DC or spell attack bonus, because that's not inherently true. For example, all Spell Scrolls have a spell attack bonus and DC based on what level spell it is. No matter who is casting a 1st level spell using a spell scroll, that spell will always have a spell save DC of 13 and/or a spell attack bonus of +5. Doesn't matter your own stats, because you're not casting the spell... the scroll is casting the spell.
You are casting the spell. From the scroll. You are casting the spell from the scroll.
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration. Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.
It doesn't matter whether or not you use your stats in any way, it's very clear that you are casting the spell. This is also evidenced by the fact that you have to maintain concentration. Since when do you maintain concentration on spells you didn't cast?
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The feature Empowered Evocation let you add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast.
A Wand of magic missiles allow the user to cast magic missilel from it, which is a wizard evocation spell, being on the respective class spell list and school;
Chapter11: Spells This chapter describes the most common spells in the worlds of Dungeons and Dragons . The chapter begins with the spell lists of the spellcasting classes. The remainder contains spell descriptions, presented in alphabetical order by the name of the spell.
Wizard Spells, 1st Level
Magic Missile, 1st-level evocation
Then why does magic missile, which is on the sorcerer spell list, not activate Wild Magic Surge?
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The rules which were quoted above from Chapter 6 of the PHB are specifically addressing how to resolve things when a character has the Spellcasting class Feature from more than one class. But we already know that there are ways to cast a spell without using a Spellcasting class Feature and when doing so only the general rules of spellcasting apply, not the specific rules regarding using a Spellcasting class Feature.
Examples of additional ways to cast a spell include via racial trait, such as the Tiefling's Infernal Legacy trait, via feat, such as the Magic Initiate feat, via an Innate Spellcasting special trait in some monster stat blocks, and so on.
The question remains, is a spell cast from a magic item considered to be you casting the spell as is the case with the above examples? Here are some potentially relevant rules:
PHB Chapter 9: Combat -> Actions in Combat:
Cast a Spell
Spellcasters such as wizards and clerics, as well as many monsters, have access to spells and can use them to great effect in combat. . . . a spellcaster often uses his or her action in combat to cast such a spell.
PHB, Chapter 10: Spellcasting: ("the rules for casting spells . . . Regardless of its source, a spell follows the rules here.")
In casting a spell, a character carefully plucks at the invisible strands of raw magic suffusing the world, pins them in place in a particular pattern, sets them vibrating in a specific way, and then releases them to unleash the desired effect
Before a spellcaster can use a spell, he or she must have the spell firmly fixed in mind, or must have access to the spell in a magic item.
Regardless of how many spells a caster knows or prepares, he or she can cast only a limited number of spells before resting. . . .
When a character casts a spell, he or she expends a slot of that spell's level or higher, effectively "filling" a slot with the spell.
Some characters and monsters have special abilities that let them cast spells without using spell slots.
Casting a Spell
When a character casts any spell, the same basic rules are followed, regardless of the character's class or the spell's effects.
Each spell description begins with a block of information, including the spell's name, level, school of magic, casting time, range, components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the spell's effect.
DMG, Chapter 7: Treasure -> Magic Items:
Attunement:
If the prerequisite is to be a spellcaster, a creature qualifies if it can cast at least one spell using its traits or features, not using a magic item or the like.
Activating an Item -> Spells:
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item. . . .
A magic item, such as certain staffs, may require you to use your own spellcasting ability when you cast a spell from the item. . . . If you don't have a spellcasting ability . . . your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item, and your proficiency bonus does apply.
Activating an Item -> Charges:
Some magic items have charges that must be expended to activate their properties.
It's worth noting that some magic items have different phrasing when it comes to casting spells.
The Amulet of the Planes, for example, says that while wearing the amulet "On a successful check, you cast the plane shift spell". This makes it more clear that you are casting the spell instead of the spell being cast from the amulet.
Another way it might work is like how the Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals works. In this case, you "speak the bowl’s command word and summon a water elemental, as if you had cast the conjure elemental spell". In this case, it's a lot less clear that you are casting the spell.
Candle of Invocation says "you can cast the gate spell with it".
Hat of Disguise uses similar phrasing to the Wand of Magic Missiles: "you can use an action to cast the disguise selfspell from it at will".
Robe of Stars has a slightly different wording: "you can use an action to pull off one of the stars and use it to castmagic missile as a 5th-level spell".
Because it was mentioned earlier, Spell Scroll says "you can read the scroll and cast its spell". In that case, it's pretty clear that you are casting the spell.
--------------------
So, unfortunately there really is not any perfectly worded rule that explicitly states whether or not the creature is casting the spell when they use an item. Some of the rules listed above seem to lean one way while others seem to lean the other way so there is a bit of inconsistency with this concept. It may even depend on the magic item itself and precisely how the description for each item is phrased.
I think that this one is going to come down to DM interpretation. In essence, the DM has to use all of the above information to decide if the phrase "you cast a spell from it" means:
(you cast a spell)(from it)
OR
(you)(cast a spell from it)
Personally, I am changing my mind about what I said before. The spell comes from two different sources -- in your mind or in the item. But I think that in both cases you are the one that actively casts it. I'm thinking of it kind of like the spell is sitting inside the item and you reach inside of the item, grab the spell, and fling it out of the item and into the environment. That's for the "you cast a spell from it" phrasing. Items which are phrased differently might work differently.
So, at this point I would allow the Empowered Evocation Feature to work with the Wand of Magic Missiles.
Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, often by expending charges from it. The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description says otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires concentration. Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration. Certain items make exceptions to these rules, changing the casting time, duration, or other parts of a spell.
It doesn't matter whether or not you use your stats in any way, it's very clear that you are casting the spell. This is also evidenced by the fact that you have to maintain concentration. Since when do you maintain concentration on spells you didn't cast?
I missed this bit about concentration before. This is pretty convincing.
The rules which were quoted above from Chapter 6 of the PHB are specifically addressing how to resolve things when a character has the Spellcasting class Feature from more than one class. But we already know that there are ways to cast a spell without using a Spellcasting class Feature and when doing so only the general rules of spellcasting apply, not the specific rules regarding using a Spellcasting class Feature.
That rule, and the SAC ruling on Wild Magic Surge, serve to provide insight on what's meant by "sorcerer spell" and "wizard spell." If those phrases don't mean spells learned/cast with the Spellcasting features of their respective classes, then the ruling wouldn't make sense.
Another way it might work is like how the Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals works. In this case, you "speak the bowl’s command word and summon a water elemental, as if you had cast the conjure elemental spell". In this case, it's a lot less clear that you are casting the spell.
In this case, it's clear that you aren't casting the spell. Neither is the item, though. Nothing is casting any spells. Just like how you don't cast any spells when you use Oil of Etherealness.
Many items, such as potions, bypass the casting of a spell and confer the spell’s effects with their usual duration.
I think that this one is going to come down to DM interpretation. In essence, the DM has to use all of the above information to decide if the phrase "you cast a spell from it" means:
(you cast a spell)(from it)
OR
(you)(cast a spell from it)
Those mean the same thing. Casting a spell from an item is casting a spell from an item. You're doing it. You're casting the spell. The spell is being cast from the item. The spell is being cast by you. "You" is the pronoun that immediately precedes "cast." "Cast" is the verb that immediately follows "you." I don't see where the room for interpretation is.
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Well, trust me there is room there! But I do agree with you on that now.
As for the Wild Magic Surge ruling -- the question was specifically about using a Spellcasting class Feature. Within that context, the ruling was that you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from that class list. So, if the higher level spell appears on two class lists and you multiclass in both of those classes but you are only high enough level in one of those classes, then you have to prepare the spell from that class list, not the other one. But again, there are other ways to cast spells that do not rely on the Spellcasting class Feature at all.
There are various feats and features that rely on the phrasing "Wizard spell" to mean "a spell that appears on the Wizard Spells list" and so on. I vaguely remember that one of the UA versions experimented with doing away with the class lists and trying to organize the total list of spells in some other way and it was found to break too many of these other parts of the game which rely on this. I won't be able to quote any of that, it's just something that I remember reading. I don't keep close track of stuff going on with the UA.
So what I said before wasn't perfect wording. More accurately:
"you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from that class list"
Should be:
"you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from the class list specified by your Spellcasting class Feature".
For example, in the case of the Arcane Trickster, your class is Rogue. But, within your Spellcasting class Feature, there are references to learning spells from the Wizard spell list. There are also references to "your wizard spells" and "a wizard spell you cast", even though you are a Rogue.
As for the Wild Magic Surge ruling -- the question was specifically about using a Spellcasting class Feature. Within that context, the ruling was that you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from that class list. So, if the higher level spell appears on two class lists and you multiclass in both of those classes but you are only high enough level in one of those classes, then you have to prepare the spell from that class list, not the other one. But again, there are other ways to cast spells that do not rely on the Spellcasting class Feature at all.
That's not what the ruling said. The question was if spells cast from wizard Spellcasting that are on the sorcerer spell list count as sorcerer spells, at least for the purpose of Wild Magic. The answer was that only spells learned from sorcerer count as such.
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That's not what the ruling said. The question was if spells cast from wizard Spellcasting that are on the sorcerer spell list count as sorcerer spells, at least for the purpose of Wild Magic. The answer was that only spells learned from sorcerer count as such.
Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing on that? If a spell appears on both the Wizard and the Sorcerer lists and you prepare the spell using the Wizard's rules for preparing spells and you cast the spell using the Wizard Spellcasting Feature, then that spell is a Wizard spell and not a Sorcerer spell. It's coming from the Wizard Spell list since that's how the Wizard prepares his spells.
But that doesn't mean that we should conclude that "Wizard spell" means a spell that you cast using the Wizard Spellcasting Feature. A Wizard spell is just a spell that you access though the Wizard Spell list.
I think we posted at the same time earlier so you may not have seen my Arcane Trickster example above.
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-Beginning at 10th level, you can add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast.
This wand has 7 charges. While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it. For 1 charge, you cast the 1st-level version of the spell. You can increase the spell slot level by one for each additional charge you expend.
so do i get Intelligence modifier with wand of magic missile?
No, you don't get to add your Intelligence modifier. It's not technically a wizard spell if you're casting it from a magic item.
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Also you are not taking the [Tooltip Not Found] action to cast Magic Missile, you are using the action granted by the Wand of Magic Missiles to cast Magic Missile.
True, but the feature doesn't require you to take the [Tooltip Not Found] action. It just requires you to cast a spell. The Wand of Magic Missiles says very clearly that it lets you cast the spell.
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I agree that you probably shouldn't be allowed to use the Feature in this way, but I don't think it's for either of those reasons.
I think it's this:
"While holding it, you can use an action to expend 1 or more of its charges to cast the magic missile spell from it."
You are using an action to expend charges. The expending of the charges is what enables a spell to be cast from it.
It's close though -- I'm sure plenty of DMs would allow it.
"For 1 charge, you cast the 1st-level version of the spell."
Even if the spell is being cast from the wand, it isn't being cast by the wand. You are casting the spell (from the wand).
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Yes, magic missile is an evocation spell that is on the wizard spell list, but that doesn't always mean that it's a wizard spell. From the PHB:
This is somewhat esoteric, but there's an answer from the Sage Advice Column that clears up what it means:
For reference, Wild Magic Surge uses the following wording:
It essentially talks about the spell in the same way that Empowered Evocation does, and thanks to SAC we know that it doesn't work unless the spell comes directly from the class. From this, we can tell what the rule in question means: it isn't a wizard spell unless you learned it from being a wizard.
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I'd have to agree with Brian here. The rule that says "no double dipping when multiclassing" isn't relevant here. There is no equivalent rule in the rules about casting from items so I'd say that it counts.
I don't think there's any doubt that you are casting the spell, so the question that remains is "is it a wizard spell when it comes from the item?"
And, as far I can see, the answer from the rules is 🤷
Quar1on's example is the closest thing to a relevant official ruling, and, while it's for a different context, it seems pretty clear that a spell only counts as a class spell if you learned it with the class's spell preparation ability.
(On the other hand, if you rule it the other way, it's honestly no big deal.)
As I recall, when you use a magic item to cast a spell it is treated as though the spell is cast by the item, and not you. That's why magic items that cast spells that include an attack roll or saving throw have a set attack bonus or save DC. A magic item has to go out of its way to say that using it uses your spell save DC or spell attack bonus, because that's not inherently true. For example, all Spell Scrolls have a spell attack bonus and DC based on what level spell it is. No matter who is casting a 1st level spell using a spell scroll, that spell will always have a spell save DC of 13 and/or a spell attack bonus of +5. Doesn't matter your own stats, because you're not casting the spell... the scroll is casting the spell.
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The feature Empowered Evocation let you add your Intelligence modifier to one damage roll of any wizard evocation spell you cast.
A Wand of magic missiles allow the user to cast magic missilel from it, which is a wizard evocation spell, being on the respective class spell list and school;
You are casting the spell. From the scroll. You are casting the spell from the scroll.
It doesn't matter whether or not you use your stats in any way, it's very clear that you are casting the spell. This is also evidenced by the fact that you have to maintain concentration. Since when do you maintain concentration on spells you didn't cast?
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Then why does magic missile, which is on the sorcerer spell list, not activate Wild Magic Surge?
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The rules which were quoted above from Chapter 6 of the PHB are specifically addressing how to resolve things when a character has the Spellcasting class Feature from more than one class. But we already know that there are ways to cast a spell without using a Spellcasting class Feature and when doing so only the general rules of spellcasting apply, not the specific rules regarding using a Spellcasting class Feature.
Examples of additional ways to cast a spell include via racial trait, such as the Tiefling's Infernal Legacy trait, via feat, such as the Magic Initiate feat, via an Innate Spellcasting special trait in some monster stat blocks, and so on.
The question remains, is a spell cast from a magic item considered to be you casting the spell as is the case with the above examples? Here are some potentially relevant rules:
PHB Chapter 9: Combat -> Actions in Combat:
PHB, Chapter 10: Spellcasting: ("the rules for casting spells . . . Regardless of its source, a spell follows the rules here.")
DMG, Chapter 7: Treasure -> Magic Items:
Attunement:
Activating an Item -> Spells:
Activating an Item -> Charges:
It's worth noting that some magic items have different phrasing when it comes to casting spells.
The Amulet of the Planes, for example, says that while wearing the amulet "On a successful check, you cast the plane shift spell". This makes it more clear that you are casting the spell instead of the spell being cast from the amulet.
Another way it might work is like how the Bowl of Commanding Water Elementals works. In this case, you "speak the bowl’s command word and summon a water elemental, as if you had cast the conjure elemental spell". In this case, it's a lot less clear that you are casting the spell.
Candle of Invocation says "you can cast the gate spell with it".
Hat of Disguise uses similar phrasing to the Wand of Magic Missiles: "you can use an action to cast the disguise self spell from it at will".
Robe of Stars has a slightly different wording: "you can use an action to pull off one of the stars and use it to cast magic missile as a 5th-level spell".
Because it was mentioned earlier, Spell Scroll says "you can read the scroll and cast its spell". In that case, it's pretty clear that you are casting the spell.
--------------------
So, unfortunately there really is not any perfectly worded rule that explicitly states whether or not the creature is casting the spell when they use an item. Some of the rules listed above seem to lean one way while others seem to lean the other way so there is a bit of inconsistency with this concept. It may even depend on the magic item itself and precisely how the description for each item is phrased.
I think that this one is going to come down to DM interpretation. In essence, the DM has to use all of the above information to decide if the phrase "you cast a spell from it" means:
(you cast a spell)(from it)
OR
(you)(cast a spell from it)
Personally, I am changing my mind about what I said before. The spell comes from two different sources -- in your mind or in the item. But I think that in both cases you are the one that actively casts it. I'm thinking of it kind of like the spell is sitting inside the item and you reach inside of the item, grab the spell, and fling it out of the item and into the environment. That's for the "you cast a spell from it" phrasing. Items which are phrased differently might work differently.
So, at this point I would allow the Empowered Evocation Feature to work with the Wand of Magic Missiles.
I missed this bit about concentration before. This is pretty convincing.
That rule, and the SAC ruling on Wild Magic Surge, serve to provide insight on what's meant by "sorcerer spell" and "wizard spell." If those phrases don't mean spells learned/cast with the Spellcasting features of their respective classes, then the ruling wouldn't make sense.
In this case, it's clear that you aren't casting the spell. Neither is the item, though. Nothing is casting any spells. Just like how you don't cast any spells when you use Oil of Etherealness.
Those mean the same thing. Casting a spell from an item is casting a spell from an item. You're doing it. You're casting the spell. The spell is being cast from the item. The spell is being cast by you. "You" is the pronoun that immediately precedes "cast." "Cast" is the verb that immediately follows "you." I don't see where the room for interpretation is.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Well, trust me there is room there! But I do agree with you on that now.
As for the Wild Magic Surge ruling -- the question was specifically about using a Spellcasting class Feature. Within that context, the ruling was that you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from that class list. So, if the higher level spell appears on two class lists and you multiclass in both of those classes but you are only high enough level in one of those classes, then you have to prepare the spell from that class list, not the other one. But again, there are other ways to cast spells that do not rely on the Spellcasting class Feature at all.
There are various feats and features that rely on the phrasing "Wizard spell" to mean "a spell that appears on the Wizard Spells list" and so on. I vaguely remember that one of the UA versions experimented with doing away with the class lists and trying to organize the total list of spells in some other way and it was found to break too many of these other parts of the game which rely on this. I won't be able to quote any of that, it's just something that I remember reading. I don't keep close track of stuff going on with the UA.
So what I said before wasn't perfect wording. More accurately:
"you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from that class list"
Should be:
"you have to have enough levels of the class in order for you to cast a spell from the class list specified by your Spellcasting class Feature".
For example, in the case of the Arcane Trickster, your class is Rogue. But, within your Spellcasting class Feature, there are references to learning spells from the Wizard spell list. There are also references to "your wizard spells" and "a wizard spell you cast", even though you are a Rogue.
That's not what the ruling said. The question was if spells cast from wizard Spellcasting that are on the sorcerer spell list count as sorcerer spells, at least for the purpose of Wild Magic. The answer was that only spells learned from sorcerer count as such.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Yeah, I think we're saying the same thing on that? If a spell appears on both the Wizard and the Sorcerer lists and you prepare the spell using the Wizard's rules for preparing spells and you cast the spell using the Wizard Spellcasting Feature, then that spell is a Wizard spell and not a Sorcerer spell. It's coming from the Wizard Spell list since that's how the Wizard prepares his spells.
But that doesn't mean that we should conclude that "Wizard spell" means a spell that you cast using the Wizard Spellcasting Feature. A Wizard spell is just a spell that you access though the Wizard Spell list.
I think we posted at the same time earlier so you may not have seen my Arcane Trickster example above.