Confusing Gaze. When a creature starts its turn within 30 feet of the umber hulk and is able to see the umber hulk's eyes....
There is something called Line of Sight, which works well for line, cone and other missile type attacks. You can see example of this in the DMG. In other instances directionality is generally considered a non-issue.
A creature is assumed to be scanning the battlefield at all times, which makes things like Flanking, passive Perception against sneaky people, and some other combat related things feel more intuitive. Line of Sight is determined the moment you decide the target of an attack. All creatures on the "line" where the breath weapon, arrow, or Ray of Frost is headed are in that line of sight. Any creatures that are in the opposite direction of the attack can not be affected by it.
The answer to your question is: whatever the DM says happens.
My ruling: you're behind the thing, unless there are no threats. If the Umber Hulk is being attacked by 2 people and one of them flanks around so there is now one on either side of it. You have effectively designated directionality, and only one of the two people will be affected by the Gaze.
There is no "behind" in combat unless you're using optional facing rules in the DMG. Either way, the Umber Hulk's gaze kicks in at the start of their turn, so by the time they try to move, it's already too late.
You have the Umber Hulk surrounded by the squares in the cardinal directions or You have one player to the North and one to the South of the creature
The Umber Hulk has two eyes in the front of it's head, there is nothing indicating that this is not the case. The players have taken this position at the end of their respective turns.
At the beginning of the Umber Hulks turn all players are affected by it's Gaze since there's no "Behind" in combat.
I'm feeling that even without optional rules, there's no way all players, in both scenarios would be affected by the ability.
----
In the respect of a singular player handling said Umber Hulk, there is no "Behind" due to the fact that it's assumed everyone's head is on a swivel during combat.
I apologize for the long post. I'm going back and forth on how I would play this.
One way, as @InquisitiveCoder suggests, is to say there is no facing in DnD. The hulk will move it's head during combat so survey the landscape and all PCs within 30" would have to roll save every round.
That said the Umber Hulks stare ability mentions needed to see the eyes which seem to indicate that they could hide from it by hiding behind an object, closing their eyes or (perhaps?) running around to it's back.
If that's the case then it's important to remember that the effect happens at the start of the PCs turn so:
Round 1 Umber: Stares at players and makes attacks
Round 1 PCs: One or more PCs succeeds, attacks and then runs behind the Hulk
Round 2 Umber: Turns around and faces the PCs in the back
Round 3 PC: At the start of turn the people that were at behind would still have to save as the Umber Hulk turned. The people that were in the front would be Ok.
Option 1 - No facing used for stare rules seems less fun for the players as there are fewer options to avoid the stare. On the other hand, it keeps combat simpler.
Option 2 - Gives an advantage to PCs as the can surround the Hulk which weakens the staring effect. The PCs will like this, but it complicates combat as we now need to track where everyone is facing. This option works better when using miniatures and less so for a theater of the mind fight.
Starting out I was in the Option 2 camp, but the more I type, the more I lean towards Option 1. Players cannot just run behind the back; the monster will continuously reposition "in its square" so the stare covers the whole 360 degrees. A player can hide behind things or choose to close their eyes to avoid direct line of sight.
At the beginning of the Umber Hulks turn all players are affected by it's Gaze since there's no "Behind" in combat.
Confusing Gaze kicks in at the start of the target's turn. The Umber Hulk is effectively targeting whomever's about to act. Since a round's 6 seconds, it's not unreasonable to say it has time to look at everyone at least once.
Option 1 - No facing used for stare rules seems less fun for the players as there are fewer options to avoid the stare. On the other hand, it keeps combat simpler.
Assuming they understand that Confusing Gaze only kicks in at the start of their turn, they can easily avoid it by making sure they always end their turn out of sight. Then they can round the corner, make a ranged attack, and run back to where they started.
If they realize it's not affecting them past a certain distance, they can also just stay out of range.
I had a player suggest, "what if I just look at a different part of the Umberhulk, but not it's eyes?"
As a DM I was impressed but also upset that my player was creatively skirting the creatures abilities. My only defense to this was, "Okay, make an attack, at disadvantage, because you are either swinging wildly at a target you're not quite focusing on, or you are making a called shot at a particular part of it's body"
I had a player suggest, "what if I just look at a different part of the Umberhulk, but not it's eyes?"
As a DM I was impressed but also upset that my player was creatively skirting the creatures abilities. My only defense to this was, "Okay, make an attack, at disadvantage, because you are either swinging wildly at a target you're not quite focusing on, or you are making a called shot at a particular part of it's body"
Does that seem accurate/fair?
You hit the mark but for (kind of) the wrong reasons...this is from the monster's statblock:
"Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can’t see the umber hulk until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If the creature looks at the umber hulk in the meantime, it must immediately make the save."
So, yes, if they avert their eyes they have disadvantage, but that is because they are effectively blinded regarding the umber hulk while "looking away". The statblock presents it as a "you are or you aren't" regarding looking at the creature for this effect...no "half looking" to avoid the eyes.
The Umber Hulk can magically force a creature to make a charisma saving throw.
Is this a magical ability? Can it be dispelled or countered? Perhaps not the gaze, but the forcing of the save?
It is a magical effect, but Counterspell and Dispel Magic only work on spell effects, not magic in general, so they won’t work here. An Antimagic Field would work though, since that stops all magic, spell or otherwise
so my players wanted to tame the Umber Hulk and they got a nat 20 on their roll so I gave them the beast and now I have to deal with this all the time. and they can get by encounters super fast and I can't keep up with them. how can I make this less annoying for me
so my players wanted to tame the Umber Hulk and they got a nat 20 on their roll so I gave them the beast and now I have to deal with this all the time. and they can get by encounters super fast and I can't keep up with them. how can I make this less annoying for me
This is a really old thread :) .. you might have wanted to start a new one.
However, the problem you have here is that you allowed a natural 20 to succeed at something that shouldn't work. The Umber Hulk is a chaotic evil monstrosity with an intelligence of 9. It isn't a beast, you can't tame it, it is probably more intelligent than some of the characters in the party. It only speaks "Umber Hulk" so unless the party has the Tongues spell or a high level monk or some other way to communicate with it then any "taming" is going to be via sign language. At best, a character might be able to convince it not to eat them at the moment and to prevent it from happening in the future the characters might need to provide it with more and better food at less effort to justify it following them around.
However, the Umber Hulk is unlikely to fight for the party or put itself at substantial risk. It might fight alongside to get the food but honestly, if the party looks like a decent meal, the Umber Hulk might change its mind and decide to eat them after all, especially when they all lie down to sleep and become a yummy defenseless morsel.
So, in terms of your game, it is up to you how you want to run it but I would probably emphasize to the party that the Umber Hulk is a chaotic evil alpha predator that likes to eat people, it might not be attacking now but much like a Grizzly bear, a lion, a tiger, or a cobra .. it isn't tame. In addition, the Umber Hulk is probably as smart as or smarter than some of the party members (unlike the Grizzly, lion etc ... so if it is sticking around, it is because it probably sees an opportunity for an easy meal down the road, whether that is the party or what they are fighting remains to be seen. Honestly, the Umber Hulk might wait for a party member to be killed then eat them ... why not? Let that happen once and the party might get a different idea about their Umber Hulk buddy :)
P.S. If you want to keep the Umber Hulk in the party then tone down its stats - the Hulk wouldn't use its confusing gaze except against a creature it is fighting since it probably wants party members to drop to provide it a bit of a snack after the battle. Similarly, it won't jump in to rescue someone and might choose to only make one attack or only attack half heartedly, again because it figures that it will gain more by pretending to help a bit rather than actually doing anything significant.
so my players wanted to tame the Umber Hulk and they got a nat 20 on their roll so I gave them the beast and now I have to deal with this all the time. and they can get by encounters super fast and I can't keep up with them. how can I make this less annoying for me
...
...I would probably emphasize to the party that the Umber Hulk is a chaotic evil alpha predator that likes to eat people, it might not be attacking now but much like a Grizzly bear, a lion, a tiger, or a cobra .. it isn't tame. In addition, the Umber Hulk is probably as smart as or smarter than some of the party members (unlike the Grizzly, lion etc ... so if it is sticking around, it is because it probably sees an opportunity for an easy meal down the road, whether that is the party or what they are fighting remains to be seen. Honestly, the Umber Hulk might wait for a party member to be killed then eat them ... why not? Let that happen once and the party might get a different idea about their Umber Hulk buddy :)
...
your large monstrosity can tunnel through rock, but maybe not through a prudent dwarf's thick, enchanted iron wall: the "dinner bell," respite of many a miner. an iron closet of a room accessible only by a small hole in each side making it a crossroads campsite safe from, well, large monstrosities. drop a chatty merchant in the corner and who wouldn't leave their hulk idling outside, right? maybe for good? ...well, no, this encounter leaves available the solution of tunneling around "bell" to get to the next path. but, hey that's for them to think up. having said that, i highly recommend you don't leave them thinking this is a forced breakup. no, no, no. they'll soon come to see that it was their chance at a merciful escape...
DM, please direct your attention to the "chaotic" part of "chaotic evil" in its stats. yeah. this big guy, so used to having this his own way, wouldn't be at all shy about initiating additional beast handling checks with each new room...
mushrooms in the wall? wonder what those taste like... yikes, did that just puff all over everyone? soooorry!
some odd mossy vines covering bones ahead? they might pause, but ole fuzzy bug isn't worried. forward, team!
one of the characters won't stop whipping him forward? have some confusing gaze, everyone.
shiny seam in the load bearing pillar? when you've got "steel-hard chitin," who spends time worrying about cave ins?
water dripped on it's head? time to dig straight up (try and stop me!)
hungry. time to burrow into the wall and wait for food.
actually, wait, i forgot: are you guys still not food? maybe we should check.
hey, y'all wanna hear the song of my people? (...and in the distance: a reply. a sexy reply! (biology lesson, ahoy!))
one of my players ran around the behind of one umber hulk and justified that he would not be affected by the 30 foot range. What should have occurred?
There is something called Line of Sight, which works well for line, cone and other missile type attacks. You can see example of this in the DMG. In other instances directionality is generally considered a non-issue.
A creature is assumed to be scanning the battlefield at all times, which makes things like Flanking, passive Perception against sneaky people, and some other combat related things feel more intuitive.
Line of Sight is determined the moment you decide the target of an attack. All creatures on the "line" where the breath weapon, arrow, or Ray of Frost is headed are in that line of sight. Any creatures that are in the opposite direction of the attack can not be affected by it.
The answer to your question is: whatever the DM says happens.
My ruling: you're behind the thing, unless there are no threats. If the Umber Hulk is being attacked by 2 people and one of them flanks around so there is now one on either side of it. You have effectively designated directionality, and only one of the two people will be affected by the Gaze.
There is no "behind" in combat unless you're using optional facing rules in the DMG. Either way, the Umber Hulk's gaze kicks in at the start of their turn, so by the time they try to move, it's already too late.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Well, that creates a question then:
You have the Umber Hulk surrounded by the squares in the cardinal directions
or
You have one player to the North and one to the South of the creature
The Umber Hulk has two eyes in the front of it's head, there is nothing indicating that this is not the case.
The players have taken this position at the end of their respective turns.
At the beginning of the Umber Hulks turn all players are affected by it's Gaze since there's no "Behind" in combat.
I'm feeling that even without optional rules, there's no way all players, in both scenarios would be affected by the ability.
----
In the respect of a singular player handling said Umber Hulk, there is no "Behind" due to the fact that it's assumed everyone's head is on a swivel during combat.
I apologize for the long post. I'm going back and forth on how I would play this.
One way, as @InquisitiveCoder suggests, is to say there is no facing in DnD. The hulk will move it's head during combat so survey the landscape and all PCs within 30" would have to roll save every round.
That said the Umber Hulks stare ability mentions needed to see the eyes which seem to indicate that they could hide from it by hiding behind an object, closing their eyes or (perhaps?) running around to it's back.
If that's the case then it's important to remember that the effect happens at the start of the PCs turn so:
Round 1 Umber: Stares at players and makes attacks
Round 1 PCs: One or more PCs succeeds, attacks and then runs behind the Hulk
Round 2 Umber: Turns around and faces the PCs in the back
Round 3 PC: At the start of turn the people that were at behind would still have to save as the Umber Hulk turned. The people that were in the front would be Ok.
Option 1 - No facing used for stare rules seems less fun for the players as there are fewer options to avoid the stare. On the other hand, it keeps combat simpler.
Option 2 - Gives an advantage to PCs as the can surround the Hulk which weakens the staring effect. The PCs will like this, but it complicates combat as we now need to track where everyone is facing. This option works better when using miniatures and less so for a theater of the mind fight.
Starting out I was in the Option 2 camp, but the more I type, the more I lean towards Option 1. Players cannot just run behind the back; the monster will continuously reposition "in its square" so the stare covers the whole 360 degrees. A player can hide behind things or choose to close their eyes to avoid direct line of sight.
Confusing Gaze kicks in at the start of the target's turn. The Umber Hulk is effectively targeting whomever's about to act. Since a round's 6 seconds, it's not unreasonable to say it has time to look at everyone at least once.
Assuming they understand that Confusing Gaze only kicks in at the start of their turn, they can easily avoid it by making sure they always end their turn out of sight. Then they can round the corner, make a ranged attack, and run back to where they started.
If they realize it's not affecting them past a certain distance, they can also just stay out of range.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
I had a player suggest, "what if I just look at a different part of the Umberhulk, but not it's eyes?"
As a DM I was impressed but also upset that my player was creatively skirting the creatures abilities. My only defense to this was, "Okay, make an attack, at disadvantage, because you are either swinging wildly at a target you're not quite focusing on, or you are making a called shot at a particular part of it's body"
Does that seem accurate/fair?
You hit the mark but for (kind of) the wrong reasons...this is from the monster's statblock:
"Unless surprised, a creature can avert its eyes to avoid the saving throw at the start of its turn. If the creature does so, it can’t see the umber hulk until the start of its next turn, when it can avert its eyes again. If the creature looks at the umber hulk in the meantime, it must immediately make the save."
So, yes, if they avert their eyes they have disadvantage, but that is because they are effectively blinded regarding the umber hulk while "looking away". The statblock presents it as a "you are or you aren't" regarding looking at the creature for this effect...no "half looking" to avoid the eyes.
Thank you for helping me clarify this circumstance! It will greatly help me in the future
Let's dig this topic up again:
The Umber Hulk can magically force a creature to make a charisma saving throw.
Is this a magical ability? Can it be dispelled or countered? Perhaps not the gaze, but the forcing of the save?
It is a magical effect, but Counterspell and Dispel Magic only work on spell effects, not magic in general, so they won’t work here. An Antimagic Field would work though, since that stops all magic, spell or otherwise
Thank you, iconarising, for your reply.
so my players wanted to tame the Umber Hulk and they got a nat 20 on their roll so I gave them the beast and now I have to deal with this all the time. and they can get by encounters super fast and I can't keep up with them. how can I make this less annoying for me
This is a really old thread :) .. you might have wanted to start a new one.
However, the problem you have here is that you allowed a natural 20 to succeed at something that shouldn't work. The Umber Hulk is a chaotic evil monstrosity with an intelligence of 9. It isn't a beast, you can't tame it, it is probably more intelligent than some of the characters in the party. It only speaks "Umber Hulk" so unless the party has the Tongues spell or a high level monk or some other way to communicate with it then any "taming" is going to be via sign language. At best, a character might be able to convince it not to eat them at the moment and to prevent it from happening in the future the characters might need to provide it with more and better food at less effort to justify it following them around.
However, the Umber Hulk is unlikely to fight for the party or put itself at substantial risk. It might fight alongside to get the food but honestly, if the party looks like a decent meal, the Umber Hulk might change its mind and decide to eat them after all, especially when they all lie down to sleep and become a yummy defenseless morsel.
So, in terms of your game, it is up to you how you want to run it but I would probably emphasize to the party that the Umber Hulk is a chaotic evil alpha predator that likes to eat people, it might not be attacking now but much like a Grizzly bear, a lion, a tiger, or a cobra .. it isn't tame. In addition, the Umber Hulk is probably as smart as or smarter than some of the party members (unlike the Grizzly, lion etc ... so if it is sticking around, it is because it probably sees an opportunity for an easy meal down the road, whether that is the party or what they are fighting remains to be seen. Honestly, the Umber Hulk might wait for a party member to be killed then eat them ... why not? Let that happen once and the party might get a different idea about their Umber Hulk buddy :)
P.S. If you want to keep the Umber Hulk in the party then tone down its stats - the Hulk wouldn't use its confusing gaze except against a creature it is fighting since it probably wants party members to drop to provide it a bit of a snack after the battle. Similarly, it won't jump in to rescue someone and might choose to only make one attack or only attack half heartedly, again because it figures that it will gain more by pretending to help a bit rather than actually doing anything significant.
your large monstrosity can tunnel through rock, but maybe not through a prudent dwarf's thick, enchanted iron wall: the "dinner bell," respite of many a miner. an iron closet of a room accessible only by a small hole in each side making it a crossroads campsite safe from, well, large monstrosities. drop a chatty merchant in the corner and who wouldn't leave their hulk idling outside, right? maybe for good? ...well, no, this encounter leaves available the solution of tunneling around "bell" to get to the next path. but, hey that's for them to think up. having said that, i highly recommend you don't leave them thinking this is a forced breakup. no, no, no. they'll soon come to see that it was their chance at a merciful escape...
DM, please direct your attention to the "chaotic" part of "chaotic evil" in its stats. yeah. this big guy, so used to having this his own way, wouldn't be at all shy about initiating additional beast handling checks with each new room...
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