Does the weapon with Nick have to be the first one in the attack order to proc Nick?
I believe most people are taking the position that it does not. The weapon with nick is the one that gets to make the attack on the attack action.
Though I initially read it as you had to use the Nick weapon first, I don't think that was the intention.
Honestly, Its not going to matter that much. I wouldn't really worry about the mathematical operations. There is no reason to call out a player because they didn't attack with their dagger first to let their short short go. Obviously being able to use the shortsword first could give vex to the dagger on round 1, where using the dagger first would not. But i don't think that is going to hurt your game any, so I would default to just saying the weapon with Nick is the one that makes the extra attack on the action.
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
So first, you take the Attack action with a light weapon (main hand, no Nick), and then you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Then, your second attack if you have Nick (off-hand): "you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.".
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
There is some debate about this interaction, though:
I mean, by strictly reading it, you just have to have the Mastery to get the extra attack as part of your Action. You wouldn't even necessarily have to be wielding a Nick weapon. The Mastery description never mentions using a Nick weapon like all of the other ones do.
So could you have two Shortswords and benefit from Nick? RAW: Yes. RAI: Probably not.
I mean, by strictly reading it, you just have to have the Mastery to get the extra attack as part of your Action. You wouldn't even necessarily have to be wielding a Nick weapon. The Mastery description never mentions using a Nick weapon like all of the other ones do.
So could you have two Shortswords and benefit from Nick? RAW: Yes. RAI: Probably not.
I hadn't even caught that omfg, no where does it mention it needs to be equipped, they left it open so it could be used main or off hand but forgot to add that it had to be in either lol
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
I don't think it's almost but 100% definitely RAI. I'd add more, if using a Weapon Mastery with different weapon was intended Tactical Master would be redundant.
Yes Nick doesn't say ''with this weapon'' like all other Weapon Mastery, but will require one if i DM with those and expect errata or Sage Advice will eventually address it.
Level 9: Tactical Master
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
I don't think it's almost but 100% definitely RAI. I'd add more, if using a Weapon Mastery with different weapon was intended Tactical Master would be redundant.
Yes Nick doesn't say ''with this weapon'' like all other Weapon Mastery, but will require one if i DM with those and expect errata or Sage Advice will eventually address it.
Level 9: Tactical Master
When you attack with a weapon whose mastery property you can use, you can replace that property with the Push, Sap, or Slow property for that attack.
But that doesn't grant you Nick, only Push, Sap, or Slow. And all of those specifically say making an attack with the weapon with that property. The fact that Nick is not included actually would imply that it is already meant to work regardless of using a weapon with Nick.
It's even worse than to replace them If you can use Nick Mastery with a different weapon and thus for example fighting with two shortswords and benefiting from Vex and Nick Mastery on same attack all at once since Tactical Master doesn't let you keep both but replace them.
Does the weapon with Nick have to be the first one in the attack order to proc Nick?
I believe most people are taking the position that it does not. The weapon with nick is the one that gets to make the attack on the attack action.
Though I initially read it as you had to use the Nick weapon first, I don't think that was the intention.
Honestly, Its not going to matter that much. I wouldn't really worry about the mathematical operations. There is no reason to call out a player because they didn't attack with their dagger first to let their short short go. Obviously being able to use the shortsword first could give vex to the dagger on round 1, where using the dagger first would not. But i don't think that is going to hurt your game any, so I would default to just saying the weapon with Nick is the one that makes the extra attack on the action.
My understanding based on the Light rules:
So first, you take the Attack action with a light weapon (main hand, no Nick), and then you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
Then, your second attack if you have Nick (off-hand): "you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.".
There is some debate about this interaction, though:
No when you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can
make one extra attack with a different Light weapon as a Bonus Action
OR
make one extra attack with a different Light weapon as part of the Attack action instead with Nick Mastery.
I mean, by strictly reading it, you just have to have the Mastery to get the extra attack as part of your Action. You wouldn't even necessarily have to be wielding a Nick weapon. The Mastery description never mentions using a Nick weapon like all of the other ones do.
So could you have two Shortswords and benefit from Nick? RAW: Yes. RAI: Probably not.
I hadn't even caught that omfg, no where does it mention it needs to be equipped, they left it open so it could be used main or off hand but forgot to add that it had to be in either lol
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
New Weapon Mastery | 2024 Player's Handbook | D&D (youtube.com) (01:00)
Like I said, that is almost definitely not RAI. But it is 100% RAW... yay 5.24e....
I don't think it's almost but 100% definitely RAI. I'd add more, if using a Weapon Mastery with different weapon was intended Tactical Master would be redundant.
Yes Nick doesn't say ''with this weapon'' like all other Weapon Mastery, but will require one if i DM with those and expect errata or Sage Advice will eventually address it.
But that doesn't grant you Nick, only Push, Sap, or Slow. And all of those specifically say making an attack with the weapon with that property. The fact that Nick is not included actually would imply that it is already meant to work regardless of using a weapon with Nick.
And I don't like that at all....
It's even worse than to replace them If you can use Nick Mastery with a different weapon and thus for example fighting with two shortswords and benefiting from Vex and Nick Mastery on same attack all at once since Tactical Master doesn't let you keep both but replace them.