Incorrect, the ability of a fighter to use part of their movement speed/distance during their attack action, especially when they have extra attacks, allows them to move a little to a target, attack then move again, if they have not used all the allotted movement speed/distance for their turn.
Absolutely nothing that I've said above is incorrect and everything that I've said is important in order to properly understand how the mechanic works.
The rules for Movement and Position define and explain a resource that characters have access to at certain times in order to move in the ways that are specified by those rules. All of the relevant rules were directly quoted.
The general rule is that you move on your turn and you do that before or after your various actions.
The reason why the specific rule in the description for the Attack Action even has to be stated at all in the first place is because the general rule does not allow such movement by default. So, the Attack Action must explicitly declare that you can use part of this movement between the attacks that are occurring as part of an Attack Action (and ONLY the Attack Action -- hence why monsters with "multiattack" are no longer able to move between attacks). Based on the explicit wording of that rule with phrases such as "If you move on your turn" and "you can use some or all of that movement" it is clear that that particular rule is using the same movement resource that is created by the general rule, so it would subtract from that same amount of allowed movement as defined by your Speed statistic.
And that's the whole point. If any other rule or spell or class Feature or Feat or any other thing that might cause a creature to do something says anything about movement, it must explicitly define what is being allowed by that feature and whether or not it is using that same movement resource. Otherwise, it doesn't.
This is similar to how plenty of other rules in the game work. For example, many classes have a class Feature called "Spellcasting" that allows that character to cast spells by using a specific available resource (spell slots). But they might also acquire a Feat that lets them cast spells in some completely different way. If the Feat doesn't say that it uses the spell slot resources, then it doesn't use them. It defines its own resource and rules for casting the spells that it provides.
Similar concept here with Features that provide movement in various ways.
The movement resource that is defined by your Speed statistic is only something that you can use on your turn. You cannot use this resource at all on any other creature's turn. Your speed is effectively 0 on every other creature's turn.
Your Speed is a score that remains unchanged unless a game element specifically do so. If your Speed was 0 off turn, it would prevent Ready to move anywhere as a reaction.
The movement resource that is defined by your Speed statistic is only something that you can use on your turn. You cannot use this resource at all on any other creature's turn. Your speed is effectively 0 on every other creature's turn.
Your Speed is a score that remains unchanged unless a game element specifically do so. If your Speed was 0 off turn, it would prevent Ready to move anywhere as a reaction.
To elaborate on this a little, speed and movement are not the same thing. Speed is the cap on how much movement you can spend on your turn, but your speed remains the same, including on other people's turns, where no general rule allows you to move, but some specific actions or features may direct you to (like Ready or the Maneuvering Strike battlemaster maneuver). A feature that says "that creature can use its reaction to move up to its speed" would be nonfunctional if speed were 0 off your turn.
That said, you only spend movement when you use your movement. If you're using a reaction or bonus action to move (the amount you can move is usually based on your speed), you're not using your movement.
Another Feature that effectively rely on your Speed score off-turn is Relentless Avenger which absolutely need to not be 0 for you to move.
Level 7: Relentless Avenger
Your supernatural focus helps you close off a foe's retreat. When you hit a creature with an Opportunity Attack, you can reduce the creature's Speed to 0 until the end of the current turn. You can then move up to half your Speed as part of the same Reaction. This movement doesn't provoke Opportunity Attacks.
The movement resource that is defined by your Speed statistic is only something that you can use on your turn. You cannot use this resource at all on any other creature's turn. Your speed is effectively 0 on every other creature's turn.
Your Speed is a score that remains unchanged unless a game element specifically do so. If your Speed was 0 off turn, it would prevent Ready to move anywhere as a reaction.
To elaborate on this a little, speed and movement are not the same thing. Speed is the cap on how much movement you can spend on your turn, but your speed remains the same, including on other people's turns, where no general rule allows you to move, but some specific actions or features may direct you to (like Ready or the Maneuvering Strike battlemaster maneuver). A feature that says "that creature can use its reaction to move up to its speed" would be nonfunctional if speed were 0 off your turn.
That said, you only spend movement when you use your movement. If you're using a reaction or bonus action to move (the amount you can move is usually based on your speed), you're not using your movement.
Yes, I agree with all of this. In fact, I've already said all of this. It's also what I meant when I said that your speed is "effectively" zero when it's not your turn, because that's how much of that resource is available for you to use at that time. Your speed is not "actually" zero at that time. Obviously when a feature refers to the statistic itself but is not actually using the movement resource that is generally associated with it then that's a different story and you would use your actual statistic for that purpose. The way that you've explained it here is probably better though.
The movement resource that is defined by your Speed statistic is only something that you can use on your turn. You cannot use this resource at all on any other creature's turn. Your speed is effectively 0 on every other creature's turn.
Your Speed is a score that remains unchanged unless a game element specifically do so. If your Speed was 0 off turn, it would prevent Ready to move anywhere as a reaction.
The Ready action doesn't really use this movement resource on another turn. You are essentially saving up movement by "using" it at the time that you take the ready action so that it's available when the trigger occurs. So, this is a case where if you really did use up all of your movement prior to taking the Ready action (or even afterwards but while it's still your turn), then you actually would not be able to move as a Reaction since your movement for that turn is already used up. But that's not because the movement is available for a whole Round and then resets on the next Round -- it does not actually work that way. The movement must be used on your turn. The Ready action is just a more complicated way of doing so. It's just like when you Ready an Attack Action. You are pretty much using your action to do that, and Actions are taken on your own turn -- but the action is executed later on when it's not your turn. Another way of looking at it is that the Ready action rule creates an exception regarding when you are allowed to take the specified action or when you are allowed to use your movement, but the action economy and the movement economy isn't changed by it -- you are still using that same resource in that case.
Still not getting it are you. Just because a rule does not specifically say verbatim what can and can not be done does not mean some other rule may compliment another rule that further refines the original rule.
Any feature that grants extra movement does not use a player’s movement speed/distance unless it states otherwise. Period. And most of the rules that grant extra movement/speed/distance have the exception of if for whatever reason your speed/distance you can move is reduced to 0, meaning you have no ability to further move any distance from where you currently are, then the extra movement/distance/speed can not be applied.
The logic in trying to convince people who have far more experience in playing and running a D&D game and know the rules better than the designers, is incorrect.
Still not getting it are you. Rules do what they say, and they don't do what they don't say. This is the Rules As Written forum where we discuss what is actually written in the rules.
I don't know what you think you are getting at with a bunch of talk of "complimenting" a rule that "refines" another rule . . . in this game there is Specific Beats General, and there are rules that are just not in conflict at all. If somehow two specific rules are in conflict, then the DM has to make a ruling. So, sometimes two Features might seem like they have something in common, but they actually use two different mechanics. Some of the movement rules discussed are like that. The spellcasting rules that I mentioned earlier are also like that. Just because two Features allow a creature to cast a spell doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that. If one Feature uses spell slots and the other uses a 1 / day mechanic, then guess what? They are not using the same resource.
What you've just said above is NOT what is meant when a feature refers to your Speed being reduced to 0. When your Speed is reduced to 0, that means your actual Speed statistic is changed to 0, so you cannot move at all, ever again, until that statistic is permanently changed again. It has nothing to do with whether or not you've used up your movement for the current turn or anything like that -- that's not what Speed reduced to 0 means. At all.
Most of the rest of what you've been saying in the past few posts is just exactly the same things that I've already said. You call me incorrect, and then pretty much cut-and-paste my own arguments and pass them off as your own as some sort of counterargument. And having some sort of attitude while you attempt to do so is unnecessary at best.
The logic in trying to convince people who have far more experience in playing and running a D&D game and know the rules better than the designers, is incorrect.
What in the world even is this? How is this a Rules argument in any way whatsoever? Statements like this have absolutely no place in this Forum. Don't do it again.
The Ready action doesn't really use this movement resource on another turn. You are essentially saving up movement by "using" it at the time that you take the ready action so that it's available when the trigger occurs. So, this is a case where if you really did use up all of your movement prior to taking the Ready action (or even afterwards but while it's still your turn), then you actually would not be able to move as a Reaction since your movement for that turn is already used up. But that's not because the movement is available for a whole Round and then resets on the next Round -- it does not actually work that way. The movement must be used on your turn.
You can move up to your Speed on your turn and then Ready to move up to your Speed in response to a trigger as a Reaction on another creature's turn.
Likewise, you can take the Dash action and gain extra movement equals your Speed, this wether you have moved or not during your turn. With a Speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you Dash. If did move 20 feet already when taking Dash, you would thus gain 30 feet extra movement and can still move up to 40 feet.(10 + 30)
Another example of Feature that effectively rely on your Speed score off-turn is Inspiring Movement which absolutely need to not be 0 for you and your ally to move.
Level 6: Inspiring Movement
When an enemy you can see ends its turn within 5 feet of you, you can take a Reaction and expend one use of your Bardic Inspiration to move up to half your Speed. Then one ally of your choice within 30 feet of you can also move up to half their Speed using their Reaction. None of this feature’s movement provokes Opportunity Attacks.
while the rules don't specify this as clearly as I think it should, I will make a couple of quick comments.
Start of Turn, actions, movement, reactions, bonus action, etc. Start of next turn resets movement speed, bonus actions and reactions etc.
Maneuvering Attack
When you hit a creature with an attack roll, you can expend one Superiority Die to maneuver one of your comrades into another position. Add the Superiority Die roll to the attack’s damage roll, and choose a willing creature who can see or hear you. That creature can use its Reaction to move up to half its Speed without provoking an Opportunity Attacks from the target of your attack.
Does not add movement speed, so if the target has moved full movement on their turn nothing happens. If they have the movement speed left, they move and spend their reaction as well. BTW I loved this ability in 4th edition Warlord. Really added a lot of dynamic to a fight. But in 5th edition if your target has moved their full speed or used their reaction then you wasted that part of the Maneuvering Attack. [...]
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I needed to revisit it for different reasons, and I noticed this reply wasn't answered, and I think it's incorrect based on the reasons given afterward.
Absolutely nothing that I've said above is incorrect and everything that I've said is important in order to properly understand how the mechanic works.
The rules for Movement and Position define and explain a resource that characters have access to at certain times in order to move in the ways that are specified by those rules. All of the relevant rules were directly quoted.
The general rule is that you move on your turn and you do that before or after your various actions.
The reason why the specific rule in the description for the Attack Action even has to be stated at all in the first place is because the general rule does not allow such movement by default. So, the Attack Action must explicitly declare that you can use part of this movement between the attacks that are occurring as part of an Attack Action (and ONLY the Attack Action -- hence why monsters with "multiattack" are no longer able to move between attacks). Based on the explicit wording of that rule with phrases such as "If you move on your turn" and "you can use some or all of that movement" it is clear that that particular rule is using the same movement resource that is created by the general rule, so it would subtract from that same amount of allowed movement as defined by your Speed statistic.
And that's the whole point. If any other rule or spell or class Feature or Feat or any other thing that might cause a creature to do something says anything about movement, it must explicitly define what is being allowed by that feature and whether or not it is using that same movement resource. Otherwise, it doesn't.
This is similar to how plenty of other rules in the game work. For example, many classes have a class Feature called "Spellcasting" that allows that character to cast spells by using a specific available resource (spell slots). But they might also acquire a Feat that lets them cast spells in some completely different way. If the Feat doesn't say that it uses the spell slot resources, then it doesn't use them. It defines its own resource and rules for casting the spells that it provides.
Similar concept here with Features that provide movement in various ways.
Your Speed is a score that remains unchanged unless a game element specifically do so. If your Speed was 0 off turn, it would prevent Ready to move anywhere as a reaction.
To elaborate on this a little, speed and movement are not the same thing. Speed is the cap on how much movement you can spend on your turn, but your speed remains the same, including on other people's turns, where no general rule allows you to move, but some specific actions or features may direct you to (like Ready or the Maneuvering Strike battlemaster maneuver). A feature that says "that creature can use its reaction to move up to its speed" would be nonfunctional if speed were 0 off your turn.
That said, you only spend movement when you use your movement. If you're using a reaction or bonus action to move (the amount you can move is usually based on your speed), you're not using your movement.
Another Feature that effectively rely on your Speed score off-turn is Relentless Avenger which absolutely need to not be 0 for you to move.
Yes, I agree with all of this. In fact, I've already said all of this. It's also what I meant when I said that your speed is "effectively" zero when it's not your turn, because that's how much of that resource is available for you to use at that time. Your speed is not "actually" zero at that time. Obviously when a feature refers to the statistic itself but is not actually using the movement resource that is generally associated with it then that's a different story and you would use your actual statistic for that purpose. The way that you've explained it here is probably better though.
The Ready action doesn't really use this movement resource on another turn. You are essentially saving up movement by "using" it at the time that you take the ready action so that it's available when the trigger occurs. So, this is a case where if you really did use up all of your movement prior to taking the Ready action (or even afterwards but while it's still your turn), then you actually would not be able to move as a Reaction since your movement for that turn is already used up. But that's not because the movement is available for a whole Round and then resets on the next Round -- it does not actually work that way. The movement must be used on your turn. The Ready action is just a more complicated way of doing so. It's just like when you Ready an Attack Action. You are pretty much using your action to do that, and Actions are taken on your own turn -- but the action is executed later on when it's not your turn. Another way of looking at it is that the Ready action rule creates an exception regarding when you are allowed to take the specified action or when you are allowed to use your movement, but the action economy and the movement economy isn't changed by it -- you are still using that same resource in that case.
Still not getting it are you. Rules do what they say, and they don't do what they don't say. This is the Rules As Written forum where we discuss what is actually written in the rules.
I don't know what you think you are getting at with a bunch of talk of "complimenting" a rule that "refines" another rule . . . in this game there is Specific Beats General, and there are rules that are just not in conflict at all. If somehow two specific rules are in conflict, then the DM has to make a ruling. So, sometimes two Features might seem like they have something in common, but they actually use two different mechanics. Some of the movement rules discussed are like that. The spellcasting rules that I mentioned earlier are also like that. Just because two Features allow a creature to cast a spell doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that. If one Feature uses spell slots and the other uses a 1 / day mechanic, then guess what? They are not using the same resource.
What you've just said above is NOT what is meant when a feature refers to your Speed being reduced to 0. When your Speed is reduced to 0, that means your actual Speed statistic is changed to 0, so you cannot move at all, ever again, until that statistic is permanently changed again. It has nothing to do with whether or not you've used up your movement for the current turn or anything like that -- that's not what Speed reduced to 0 means. At all.
Most of the rest of what you've been saying in the past few posts is just exactly the same things that I've already said. You call me incorrect, and then pretty much cut-and-paste my own arguments and pass them off as your own as some sort of counterargument. And having some sort of attitude while you attempt to do so is unnecessary at best.
What in the world even is this? How is this a Rules argument in any way whatsoever? Statements like this have absolutely no place in this Forum. Don't do it again.
You can move up to your Speed on your turn and then Ready to move up to your Speed in response to a trigger as a Reaction on another creature's turn.
Likewise, you can take the Dash action and gain extra movement equals your Speed, this wether you have moved or not during your turn. With a Speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you Dash. If did move 20 feet already when taking Dash, you would thus gain 30 feet extra movement and can still move up to 40 feet.(10 + 30)
Another example of Feature that effectively rely on your Speed score off-turn is Inspiring Movement which absolutely need to not be 0 for you and your ally to move.
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I needed to revisit it for different reasons, and I noticed this reply wasn't answered, and I think it's incorrect based on the reasons given afterward.
EDIT: I've seen SagaTympana mentioned the feature in this reply.