So, just to be sure. I can use stab a foe with my dagger, Cunning Action Disengage, run 25 feet, and shoot them with my Hand Crossbow.
Strictly speaking I think you have to Disengage first (since both attacks are part of the same action and I don't think you can take a bonus action in the middle of taking an action) but yes, that should work. I'm not sure why you said 25 feet specifically; you'd be able to move up to your normal movement, whatever that is.
So, just to be sure. I can use stab a foe with my dagger, Cunning Action Disengage, run 25 feet, and shoot them with my Hand Crossbow.
Strictly speaking I think you have to Disengage first (since both attacks are part of the same action and I don't think you can take a bonus action in the middle of taking an action) but yes, that should work. [...]
I feel like I'm almost the only one with a different perspective.
I've read opinions in other threads saying you can't take a Bonus Action in the middle of your Attack action, but I still don't see why.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during your turn unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified. Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
So, just to be sure. I can use stab a foe with my dagger, Cunning Action Disengage, run 25 feet, and shoot them with my Hand Crossbow.
Strictly speaking I think you have to Disengage first (since both attacks are part of the same action and I don't think you can take a bonus action in the middle of taking an action) but yes, that should work. [...]
I feel like I'm almost the only one with a different perspective.
I've read opinions in other threads saying you can't take a Bonus Action in the middle of your Attack action, but I still don't see why.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during your turn unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified. Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
You don't take the Bonus Action in the middle of the Attack Action.
Your Turn Starts
Use Cunning Action to take the Disengage Action as a Bonus Action. Your movement is modified for the rest of the turn, but no movement is actually made yet.
I am of the opinion that the Nick weapon needs to be used for the extra attack from Light in order to make the attack as part of the Attack action. However, at tables where that is not the case, this works fine.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during your turn unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified. Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
Bonus Actions (and Reactions, for that matter) are specifically described as a type of action
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action.
So they would still be subject to the One Thing At a Time rule, same as any other action
Of course, this interpretation also means you can't take a reaction in the middle of your own action, i.e. counterspelling a counterspell to your own initial cast
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A lot of the confusion on this is due to the word “action” being used as both a term for a category of things and as the name of a specific thing in that category. It’s a baffling design decision that has made a lot of things less clear than they could be.
so when you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack with a different Light weapon with Nick Mastery as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. Not the other way around.
What you could do is use Cunning Action to Disengage as a Bonus Action, run 25 feet, take the Attack action to attack with the Hand Crossbow and make one extra attack with the Dagger.
How to Use Weapon Mastery Properties: If you’re wielding a weapon and have learned its mastery property, you’ll be able to use that mastery property every turn when you make an attack with the weapon.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during your turn unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified. Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
Bonus Actions (and Reactions, for that matter) are specifically described as a type of action
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action.
So they would still be subject to the One Thing At a Time rule, same as any other action
Of course, this interpretation also means you can't take a reaction in the middle of your own action, i.e. counterspelling a counterspell to your own initial cast
That's the thing. With this interpretation, if you move between attacks and doing so it triggers an OA from an enemy, you wouldn't be able to cast Shield.
so when you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack with a different Light weapon with Nick Mastery as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. Not the other way around.
What you could do is use Cunning Action to Disengage as a Bonus Action, run 25 feet, take the Attack action to attack with the Hand Crossbow and make one extra attack with the Dagger.
How to Use Weapon Mastery Properties: If you’re wielding a weapon and have learned its mastery property, you’ll be able to use that mastery property every turn when you make an attack with the weapon.
Oops, totally true! I was lost in my thoughts about Bonus Action and Reactions and didn't notice that detail.
I don't think this article can be considered to be rules.
so when you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack with a different Light weapon with Nick Mastery as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. Not the other way around.
What you could do is use Cunning Action to Disengage as a Bonus Action, run 25 feet, take the Attack action to attack with the Hand Crossbow and make one extra attack with the Dagger.
How to Use Weapon Mastery Properties: If you’re wielding a weapon and have learned its mastery property, you’ll be able to use that mastery property every turn when you make an attack with the weapon.
The required timing of the cunning action is arguable, but you're explicitly allowed to move between attacks in your Attack Action, so if you have the movement available, you can move between normal and nick attack.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
You choose when to take a Bonus Action during your turn unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified. Anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a Bonus Action.
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
Bonus Actions (and Reactions, for that matter) are specifically described as a type of action
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action.
So they would still be subject to the One Thing At a Time rule, same as any other action
Of course, this interpretation also means you can't take a reaction in the middle of your own action, i.e. counterspelling a counterspell to your own initial cast
That's the thing. With this interpretation, if you move between attacks and doing so it triggers an OA from an enemy, you wouldn't be able to cast Shield.
It feels a bit odd to me.
Yeah, I'm not sure most tables play that way, but it would be the hard line
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The required timing of the cunning action is arguable
What do you find arguable in the timing of the Cunning Action feature if i may ask?
It's being argued, with nothing immediately obviously wrong to me on quick scan, and I didn't want to get stuck in to the actual rules in order to opine on a side argument to the point I was making about movement mid-attack.
(It's clear that you can take some bonus actions mid-attack because that's when they're used, but, as I said, I haven't gotten stuck in to those rules to opine on the general case.)
The required timing of the cunning action is arguable
What do you find arguable in the timing of the Cunning Action feature if i may ask?
It's being argued, with nothing immediately obviously wrong to me on quick scan, and I didn't want to get stuck in to the actual rules in order to opine on a side argument to the point I was making about movement mid-attack.
(It's clear that you can take some bonus actions mid-attack because that's when they're used, but, as I said, I haven't gotten stuck in to those rules to opine on the general case.)
Ok i assume you didn't meant that in respect to the timing of Cunning Action i was suggesting the OP then sorry for the confusion since you quoted my post.
I don't think this article can be considered to be rules.
True, it's a blogpost by a D&D Beyond lead writer and editor and there's also a video from the Dev on this topic.
The rules are clear that the extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, so the Dagger can't be used for both when you take the Attack action to attack with a Light weapon, and make the extra attack. And the Hand Crossbow doesn't have Nick Mastery Property but Vex.
Eventually it would be great if a revised Sage Advice Compendium was published to clarify debated topics such as One Thing at a Time, Nick, Hide, True Strike etc.
The required timing of the cunning action is arguable
What do you find arguable in the timing of the Cunning Action feature if i may ask?
It's being argued, with nothing immediately obviously wrong to me on quick scan, and I didn't want to get stuck in to the actual rules in order to opine on a side argument to the point I was making about movement mid-attack.
(It's clear that you can take some bonus actions mid-attack because that's when they're used, but, as I said, I haven't gotten stuck in to those rules to opine on the general case.)
Off the top of my head, I can't think of bonus actions that can be used during an attack action. The attack action explicitly allows movement between attacks and Disengage (as a Bonus Action from Cunning Action) modifies your movement for the rest of the turn. So Disengage, attack, move, second attack works but attack, disengage, move, second attack doesn't.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of bonus actions that can be used during an attack action. The attack action explicitly allows movement between attacks and Disengage (as a Bonus Action from Cunning Action) modifies your movement for the rest of the turn. So Disengage, attack, move, second attack works but attack, disengage, move, second attack doesn't.
Smite spells are BA's that are cast directly after an attack. If they can't be cast during the Attack Action then a Paladin having the Extra Attack feature becomes an issue.
So, just to be sure. I can use stab a foe with my dagger, Cunning Action Disengage, run 25 feet, and shoot them with my Hand Crossbow.
Strictly speaking I think you have to Disengage first (since both attacks are part of the same action and I don't think you can take a bonus action in the middle of taking an action) but yes, that should work. I'm not sure why you said 25 feet specifically; you'd be able to move up to your normal movement, whatever that is.
pronouns: he/she/they
I feel like I'm almost the only one with a different perspective.
I've read opinions in other threads saying you can't take a Bonus Action in the middle of your Attack action, but I still don't see why.
On one hand, we have the One Thing at a Time rule.
On the other hand, the rules for Bonus Actions and Reactions are explained below that paragraph in their own separate sections. For example, the rule for Bonus Actions is the same as it was in 2014:
So, under my understanding, One Thing at a Time applies to the main Actions, allowing Bonus Actions and Reactions to be used in the middle of other actions "unless the Bonus Action’s timing is specified" or "unless the Reaction’s description says otherwise".
You don't take the Bonus Action in the middle of the Attack Action.
I am of the opinion that the Nick weapon needs to be used for the extra attack from Light in order to make the attack as part of the Attack action. However, at tables where that is not the case, this works fine.
Edit due to finnicky tooltips.
How to add Tooltips.
I understand. It's just that I think you cannot then take advantage of some features between attacks. Some examples:
Bonus Actions (and Reactions, for that matter) are specifically described as a type of action
So they would still be subject to the One Thing At a Time rule, same as any other action
Of course, this interpretation also means you can't take a reaction in the middle of your own action, i.e. counterspelling a counterspell to your own initial cast
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A lot of the confusion on this is due to the word “action” being used as both a term for a category of things and as the name of a specific thing in that category. It’s a baffling design decision that has made a lot of things less clear than they could be.
pronouns: he/she/they
According to the article on Your Guide to Weapon Mastery in the 2024 Player's Handbook | Dungeons & Dragons , you can't because you use a Weapon Mastery property when you make an attack with the weapon.
so when you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack with a different Light weapon with Nick Mastery as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. Not the other way around.
What you could do is use Cunning Action to Disengage as a Bonus Action, run 25 feet, take the Attack action to attack with the Hand Crossbow and make one extra attack with the Dagger.
That's the thing. With this interpretation, if you move between attacks and doing so it triggers an OA from an enemy, you wouldn't be able to cast Shield.
It feels a bit odd to me.
Oops, totally true! I was lost in my thoughts about Bonus Action and Reactions and didn't notice that detail.
Of course, what you can do in the end entirely depend of your DM, but that's how it seems to be intended to work based on videos and article.
I don't think this article can be considered to be rules.
The required timing of the cunning action is arguable, but you're explicitly allowed to move between attacks in your Attack Action, so if you have the movement available, you can move between normal and nick attack.
What do you find arguable in the timing of the Cunning Action feature if i may ask?
We had a discussion on the meaning of One Thing at a Time action in this thread for those interested;
Equip or Unequip a weapon - once per attack or once per Attack [Action]? - Rules & Game Mechanics - Dungeons & Dragons Discussion - D&D Beyond Forums - D&D Beyond
Yeah, I'm not sure most tables play that way, but it would be the hard line
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's being argued, with nothing immediately obviously wrong to me on quick scan, and I didn't want to get stuck in to the actual rules in order to opine on a side argument to the point I was making about movement mid-attack.
(It's clear that you can take some bonus actions mid-attack because that's when they're used, but, as I said, I haven't gotten stuck in to those rules to opine on the general case.)
Ok i assume you didn't meant that in respect to the timing of Cunning Action i was suggesting the OP then sorry for the confusion since you quoted my post.
True, it's a blogpost by a D&D Beyond lead writer and editor and there's also a video from the Dev on this topic.
The rules are clear that the extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, so the Dagger can't be used for both when you take the Attack action to attack with a Light weapon, and make the extra attack. And the Hand Crossbow doesn't have Nick Mastery Property but Vex.
Eventually it would be great if a revised Sage Advice Compendium was published to clarify debated topics such as One Thing at a Time, Nick, Hide, True Strike etc.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of bonus actions that can be used during an attack action. The attack action explicitly allows movement between attacks and Disengage (as a Bonus Action from Cunning Action) modifies your movement for the rest of the turn. So Disengage, attack, move, second attack works but attack, disengage, move, second attack doesn't.
How to add Tooltips.
Smite spells are BA's that are cast directly after an attack. If they can't be cast during the Attack Action then a Paladin having the Extra Attack feature becomes an issue.