Researching spells that could harm a Prismatic Wall (given that many spells only deal damage to creatures and not to objects), I noticed that, while Disintegrate can target nonmagical objects and creations of magical force (the Prismatic Wall clearly falling into that latter category), it doesn't deal its Force damage to them ‒ it instantly disintegrates them (or a 10-foot cube of it, anyway). Now, the description of Prismatic Wall states that the wall can be "destroyed one layer at a time", but Disintegrate doesn't destroy the wall's layers in the sense outlined in the description of Prismatic Wall, it would just destroy a part of them (a 10-foot cube or, in the case of a wall, more likely, square). And, unlike Dispel Magic and Antimagic Field, there's nothing in the description restricting how Disintegrate might interact with it. So, I feel like, RAW, if one acknowledges that the entire wall is one object (rather than seven separate ones, with each having Total Cover until the one before it is cleared), does blasting it with Disintegrate just open a 10-foot hole in the wall?
Prismatic Wall is a complex spell, so my reply is just how I understand it and how I'd rule it, but other DMs might do it differently.
The first thing to point out is that technically, the wording "magical force" is not in the spell effect, so it cannot be used against Prismatic Wall. That wording is found in spells like Forcecage, Imprisonment or Shield.
But let's assume, as I think it's reasonable, it can be used even without that "magical force" wording. In this case, I believe the intent of Prismatic Wall is to use the specific method to beat each layer, and one by one:
The wall, which has AC 10, can be destroyed one layer at a time, in order from red to violet, by means specific to each layer.
Ah, good point about the green layer. Given that that one has a method mentioned that basically includes Disintegrate (which I kind of ignored since I was so focused on the yellow layer with Disintegrate), and RAI, other layers probably shouldn't be affected by means that affect one specific layer.
Oh. There is maybe one possible hack though you can do with Disintegrate nevertheless: The wall probably doesn't expand past total cover (the 2024 rules are a bit vague in that regard but with 2014 rules, it definitely wouldn't). So if you create the sphere-shaped PW on the ground, it's really just a dome shape. A character wanting to get in or out of it could just target the ground underneath the wall with Disintegrate (or any other effect that can quickly create a hole in the ground, but Disintegrate is the most universal one, since the others like Passwall or Stone Shape require specific materials), and then just walk through – or would you rule that (within its maximum area), the wall just expands immediately to fill any gaps when they appear (would, to be fair, kind of make sense to me if it did)?
Oh. There is maybe one possible hack though you can do with Disintegrate nevertheless: The wall probably doesn't expand past total cover (the 2024 rules are a bit vague in that regard but with 2014 rules, it definitely wouldn't). So if you create the sphere-shaped PW on the ground, it's really just a dome shape. A character wanting to get in or out of it could just target the ground underneath the wall with Disintegrate (or any other effect that can quickly create a hole in the ground, but Disintegrate is the most universal one, since the others like Passwall or Stone Shape require specific materials), and then just walk through – or would you rule that (within its maximum area), the wall just expands immediately to fill any gaps when they appear (would, to be fair, kind of make sense to me if it did)?
From a RAW perspective, I believe there isn't a definitive answer, as the effects of this spell don't cover that case.
But the 2024 rules are not vague about Total Cover and Areas of Effect. From the Rules Glossary:
An area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the effect’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how to position its point of origin. If all straight lines extending from the point of origin to a location in the area of effect are blocked, that location isn’t included in the area of effect. To block a line, an obstruction must provide Total Cover. See also “Cover.”
So, the area is established when the spell is cast and would be blocked by the ground. What happens next if you create a hole in the ground is DM's territory, I think.
Ah, I only looked at chapter 7 (spells) and forgot the Rules Glossary, thanks for pointing that one out. Digging below a PW while still within what would be the normal area of the spell without the cover feels a bit cheese-y, so I guess I would only allow it if the players are actually careful about how they dig (i.e. make sure there's still unbroken cover between their tunnel and the wall).
Then again, hm. If they dig that way, that would still remove the cover between where the effect would be and the point of origin, most likely – unless they're very careful (maybe use Stone Shape to form a door that they close behind them before digging further). And then with the wall shape rather than the sphere shape, that's much less of an issue, of course, since it should be easy enough to just dig around it, with sufficient dig spells available.
Honestly, I’m tempted to say I’d block the Disintegrate hack, at least for use against solid dirt, rock, etc as opposed to a floor. You’re arguably stretching the RAI definition of “object” in that case, and it rather undercuts the point of a 9th level spell if such a common 6th level one can consistently overcome it.
Well, Disintegrate alone wouldn't work anyway if the Prismatic Wall fills gaps not obstructed by total cover, because you can't control the shape of the holes it creates at all. Unless the character had something to cover up the hole they were digging, but then I'd be tempted to award such creative use for their items (and even then, it's difficult, because they can't control the size of the hole either, and might too easily end up with a hole that reaches the edge of where the space where the wall would then appear).
To me it appears the wall would be shaped as of the conditions at casting. It lacks concentration or emenation aspects and just exists for the duration. I would point out the wall need only be placed in range and not necessarily anchored to a surface. So the sphere need not be embedded in the floor.
Side notes: I also read the rules such that the caster can pass through the wall but it doesnt say their spells do (2nd layer). I would allow the caster to reach an arm/head/both to reach through the wall if they were next to it.
Sadly you cant place the flat wall horizontally in mid air around ankle to waist height anymore. Made for a good trip wire for parties charging through doors at a prepared boss.
[...] Side notes: I also read the rules such that the caster can pass through the wall but it doesnt say their spells do (2nd layer). I would allow the caster to reach an arm/head/both to reach through the wall if they were next to it. [...]
That seems reasonable.
Alternatively, a caster could move through the Wall, cast a spell, and step back behind it.
Hmm, the hole thing is curious, especially for the sphere/dome shape. From the replies, it sounds like you are mostly imagining the hole as some sort of ditch you dig under the PW, but what if you have a burrowing creature that comes up from the ground inside the PW? At no point in their digging underground is there a clear LoS from the point of origin to the inside of the hole until they surface, at which point they are already inside the PW.
How would you rule that? Seems pretty cheesy that burrowing creatures could so easily bypass a 9th level spell.
Hmm, the hole thing is curious, especially for the sphere/dome shape. From the replies, it sounds like you are mostly imagining the hole as some sort of ditch you dig under the PW, but what if you have a burrowing creature that comes up from the ground inside the PW? At no point in their digging underground is there a clear LoS from the point of origin to the inside of the hole until they surface, at which point they are already inside the PW.
How would you rule that? Seems pretty cheesy that burrowing creatures could so easily bypass a 9th level spell.
As written, it does seem like tunnelling under the globe / dome will bypass it. For most PCs in a 6-second-round situation, this might not be a useful approach, but perhaps out of combat over a long period of time this might be one possible solution, assuming that their excavation project is somehow not noticed, etc.
The same concept would apply if the globe-type spell was cast "up against" a solid wall that is less than 30 feet away for whatever reason -- making a hole in that wall and walking through it would bypass the Prismatic Wall. Assuming that the solid wall is ruled to be an "object", the Disintegrate spell would come in handy in that particular situation.
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Researching spells that could harm a Prismatic Wall (given that many spells only deal damage to creatures and not to objects), I noticed that, while Disintegrate can target nonmagical objects and creations of magical force (the Prismatic Wall clearly falling into that latter category), it doesn't deal its Force damage to them ‒ it instantly disintegrates them (or a 10-foot cube of it, anyway). Now, the description of Prismatic Wall states that the wall can be "destroyed one layer at a time", but Disintegrate doesn't destroy the wall's layers in the sense outlined in the description of Prismatic Wall, it would just destroy a part of them (a 10-foot cube or, in the case of a wall, more likely, square). And, unlike Dispel Magic and Antimagic Field, there's nothing in the description restricting how Disintegrate might interact with it. So, I feel like, RAW, if one acknowledges that the entire wall is one object (rather than seven separate ones, with each having Total Cover until the one before it is cleared), does blasting it with Disintegrate just open a 10-foot hole in the wall?
Prismatic Wall is a complex spell, so my reply is just how I understand it and how I'd rule it, but other DMs might do it differently.
The first thing to point out is that technically, the wording "magical force" is not in the spell effect, so it cannot be used against Prismatic Wall. That wording is found in spells like Forcecage, Imprisonment or Shield.
But let's assume, as I think it's reasonable, it can be used even without that "magical force" wording. In this case, I believe the intent of Prismatic Wall is to use the specific method to beat each layer, and one by one:
This is a summary:
So, based on all this, I'd say Disintegrate could maybe be used against the Green layer, but not to bypass all the layers at once.
Prismatic Wall is not a wall of magical force. Disintegrate does not automatically disintegrate it.
Ah, good point about the green layer. Given that that one has a method mentioned that basically includes Disintegrate (which I kind of ignored since I was so focused on the yellow layer with Disintegrate), and RAI, other layers probably shouldn't be affected by means that affect one specific layer.
Oh. There is maybe one possible hack though you can do with Disintegrate nevertheless: The wall probably doesn't expand past total cover (the 2024 rules are a bit vague in that regard but with 2014 rules, it definitely wouldn't). So if you create the sphere-shaped PW on the ground, it's really just a dome shape. A character wanting to get in or out of it could just target the ground underneath the wall with Disintegrate (or any other effect that can quickly create a hole in the ground, but Disintegrate is the most universal one, since the others like Passwall or Stone Shape require specific materials), and then just walk through – or would you rule that (within its maximum area), the wall just expands immediately to fill any gaps when they appear (would, to be fair, kind of make sense to me if it did)?
From a RAW perspective, I believe there isn't a definitive answer, as the effects of this spell don't cover that case.
But the 2024 rules are not vague about Total Cover and Areas of Effect. From the Rules Glossary:
So, the area is established when the spell is cast and would be blocked by the ground. What happens next if you create a hole in the ground is DM's territory, I think.
Ah, I only looked at chapter 7 (spells) and forgot the Rules Glossary, thanks for pointing that one out. Digging below a PW while still within what would be the normal area of the spell without the cover feels a bit cheese-y, so I guess I would only allow it if the players are actually careful about how they dig (i.e. make sure there's still unbroken cover between their tunnel and the wall).
Then again, hm. If they dig that way, that would still remove the cover between where the effect would be and the point of origin, most likely – unless they're very careful (maybe use Stone Shape to form a door that they close behind them before digging further). And then with the wall shape rather than the sphere shape, that's much less of an issue, of course, since it should be easy enough to just dig around it, with sufficient dig spells available.
Honestly, I’m tempted to say I’d block the Disintegrate hack, at least for use against solid dirt, rock, etc as opposed to a floor. You’re arguably stretching the RAI definition of “object” in that case, and it rather undercuts the point of a 9th level spell if such a common 6th level one can consistently overcome it.
Well, Disintegrate alone wouldn't work anyway if the Prismatic Wall fills gaps not obstructed by total cover, because you can't control the shape of the holes it creates at all. Unless the character had something to cover up the hole they were digging, but then I'd be tempted to award such creative use for their items (and even then, it's difficult, because they can't control the size of the hole either, and might too easily end up with a hole that reaches the edge of where the space where the wall would then appear).
To me it appears the wall would be shaped as of the conditions at casting. It lacks concentration or emenation aspects and just exists for the duration. I would point out the wall need only be placed in range and not necessarily anchored to a surface. So the sphere need not be embedded in the floor.
Side notes: I also read the rules such that the caster can pass through the wall but it doesnt say their spells do (2nd layer). I would allow the caster to reach an arm/head/both to reach through the wall if they were next to it.
Sadly you cant place the flat wall horizontally in mid air around ankle to waist height anymore. Made for a good trip wire for parties charging through doors at a prepared boss.
That seems reasonable.
Alternatively, a caster could move through the Wall, cast a spell, and step back behind it.
Hmm, the hole thing is curious, especially for the sphere/dome shape. From the replies, it sounds like you are mostly imagining the hole as some sort of ditch you dig under the PW, but what if you have a burrowing creature that comes up from the ground inside the PW? At no point in their digging underground is there a clear LoS from the point of origin to the inside of the hole until they surface, at which point they are already inside the PW.
How would you rule that? Seems pretty cheesy that burrowing creatures could so easily bypass a 9th level spell.
As written, it does seem like tunnelling under the globe / dome will bypass it. For most PCs in a 6-second-round situation, this might not be a useful approach, but perhaps out of combat over a long period of time this might be one possible solution, assuming that their excavation project is somehow not noticed, etc.
The same concept would apply if the globe-type spell was cast "up against" a solid wall that is less than 30 feet away for whatever reason -- making a hole in that wall and walking through it would bypass the Prismatic Wall. Assuming that the solid wall is ruled to be an "object", the Disintegrate spell would come in handy in that particular situation.