Mechanically the spell is fine. But as written it leaves some confusion as to if it deals damage when cast or if you move the emanation into a creature.
Additionally, it allowed you to double dip damage throughout the round by kicking people into and out of the area on different turns.
What's Wrong with 2024 Spirit Guardians?
The biggest issue with the spell is that optimizing it's use involves questionable actions that don't make sense thematically or otherwise feel dumb. For instance, if the caster begins their turn with enemies in the area, he has no guarantee they'll actually take damage. The best thing he can do is move the emanation off everyone, move it back onto them so they take damage, then move it off of them again so they take damage on their turns for entering the aura.
This feels dumb and metagamey on every level.
If a caster wants to deal damage to someone, he shouldn't be encouraged to move the spell area off of them for any reason, let alone twice in the same turn. If an enemy is already in the spell area, great! That should be a good thing if you want them to take damage.
Further, it encourages the caster to just sweep the area around the battlefield to damage everyone on the map. This is a pseudo defensive spell, right?
Bad Damage Triggers for Spirit Guardians: If we're writing this spell, we can look out for bad triggers and combinations that disrupt the game.
When a creature enters the area but not when it begins it's turn there. Dumb because it encourages the caster to move the spell off a creature he wants to harm.
When the emanation enters a creatures space but not if the creature is within the emanation at the start of the casters turn. Dumb because the caster needs to move the emanation off of a creature and then back onto them again.
When the emanation enters a creature's space. Dumb because it encourages the caster to sweep the area around the battlefield hitting every enemy on the map.
When the spell is cast and when a creature begins it's turn in the area. Disallowed for just automatically doing double damage round 1.
When a creature enters the spells area for the first time on a turn. Causes confusion as to if the spell deals damage when cast or when the emanation moves into a creature.
When a creature ends it's turn in the spells area:
This is a natural improvement to spells that create battlefield hazards. We might rewrite a spell like Cloud of Daggers like this: A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or if it is within the area when the spell is cast. A creature also takes this damage if it ends it's turn within the spells area. The caster is now happy that he gets to roll damage immediately when he casts the spell. But it also improves the balance of the spell, as kicking a creature into the spells area guarantees damage but doesn't double dip damage. Furthermore, the persistent damage most closely aligns with loitering in the spells area, but is otherwise still triggered each round.
Spirit guardians however can't be written this way without causing problems already mentioned. However, making a creature take damage at the end of their turn can just be tacked onto the spell; though this is a wildly unnecessary buff.
On a TurnVS On Their Turn
At surface level, the difference between dealing damage when a creature enters the spell on a turn and their turn just means pushing a creature into the emanation doesn't cause damage. For Spirit Guardians that in itself is more balanced as pushing them into the area forces them to start their turn there and take damage already, so as not to deal damage twice in one round for no reason. But it also has a big impact on the clarity of the text, for example: Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn or begins their turn there they must make a wisdom save.
The spell being cast over a creature or the area moving into them can't be interpreted as them entering the emanation this way. Meanwhile it's now impossible for the spell to deal damage twice per round; a minor nerf, but not really unreasonable.
It can also be written: Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn (or begins their turn there) they must make a wisdom save. The parentheses construing no difference between entering for the first time and beginning there, removing the need for a once per turn save restriction, but possibly adding confusion as to if that's the case.
Conclusion
If you want to give an unnecessary buff to spirit guardians encouraging enemies to leave the area, write it like this: Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn and whenever they begin or end their turn there they must make a wisdom save. (Do not include a line prohibiting two saves per turn).
If you want to reprint Spirit Guardians to be more clear, while slightly rebalancing it, write it like this: Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn or begins their turn there they must make a wisdom save.
If you want to do neither of these things then leave the spell alone.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Afterword: Dealing Damage When Cast
If you can't reasonably make the spell deal damage when cast, but want to make sure that it at least deals damage the round it was cast, change the duration to: 1 round + concentration
This is however 5e after all, and players barely read the spells as is, so such a quality of life would probably be completely overlooked and ignored in actual play.
For me, the 2014 and 2024 spells are just different in how they behave, and it's hard for me to say whether one is better or worse. But I think the 2024 version is at least easy to understand and apply during the games.
The new spirit guardians is abusable. Each of the players in the same group can grapple and move the cleric around on their turns causing multiple intances of damage just by moving the cleric around. A group of players with with bonus action dash or haste can trivialize most encounters with this tactic. Its really stupid. I think they will errata it by only being able to do damage on the clerics turn.
The new spirit guardians is abusable. Each of the players in the same group can grapple and move the cleric around on their turns causing multiple intances of damage just by moving the cleric around. A group of players with with bonus action dash or haste can trivialize most encounters with this tactic. Its really stupid. I think they will errata it by only being able to do damage on the clerics turn.
This is one of those theorycraft things that I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to actually happen. And if it does you can pull out the DMG where it says:
Don’t let players attack eachother or helpless creatures to activate those rules.
And since a grapple is an attack, ta-da, theorycraft nonsense fixed.
And to the OP, to my mind, when you cast the spell, any enemies in the area have entered the emanation. They weren’t in it before the spell was cast, now they are, therefore they have entered it. Don’t overthink it. If it helps, you can think of the emanation as starting in the caster’s square and expanding outward in a wave, so it enters their square that way.
On subsequent turns after casting Spirit Guardians, the cleric can also move in a manner to have the Emanation enters a creature’s space, move back and Ready to move there again on another creature's turn as his action.
And to the OP, to my mind, when you cast the spell, any enemies in the area have entered the emanation. They weren’t in it before the spell was cast, now they are, therefore they have entered it. Don’t overthink it.
Overthinking it would be asking "does casting count as them entering it" and then wilfully misinterpreting the spell in a way that makes it deal double damage on round 1. You shouldn't need to read the sage advice explicitly prohibiting this. Misinterpreting it this way makes it an instantaneous damage spell equal to fireball on top of its awesome persistent damage.
There's a reason 2024 spirit guardians deals damage when cast but not at the beginning of a creatures turn. Though as mentioned in excruciating detail within the OP, this greatly improves a spell like Cloud of Daggers, but causes problems with spirit guardians.
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What's Wrong with 2014 Spirit Guardians?
Mechanically the spell is fine. But as written it leaves some confusion as to if it deals damage when cast or if you move the emanation into a creature.
Additionally, it allowed you to double dip damage throughout the round by kicking people into and out of the area on different turns.
What's Wrong with 2024 Spirit Guardians?
The biggest issue with the spell is that optimizing it's use involves questionable actions that don't make sense thematically or otherwise feel dumb. For instance, if the caster begins their turn with enemies in the area, he has no guarantee they'll actually take damage. The best thing he can do is move the emanation off everyone, move it back onto them so they take damage, then move it off of them again so they take damage on their turns for entering the aura.
This feels dumb and metagamey on every level.
If a caster wants to deal damage to someone, he shouldn't be encouraged to move the spell area off of them for any reason, let alone twice in the same turn. If an enemy is already in the spell area, great! That should be a good thing if you want them to take damage.
Further, it encourages the caster to just sweep the area around the battlefield to damage everyone on the map. This is a pseudo defensive spell, right?
Bad Damage Triggers for Spirit Guardians:
If we're writing this spell, we can look out for bad triggers and combinations that disrupt the game.
Dumb because it encourages the caster to move the spell off a creature he wants to harm.
Dumb because the caster needs to move the emanation off of a creature and then back onto them again.
Dumb because it encourages the caster to sweep the area around the battlefield hitting every enemy on the map.
Disallowed for just automatically doing double damage round 1.
Causes confusion as to if the spell deals damage when cast or when the emanation moves into a creature.
When a creature ends it's turn in the spells area:
This is a natural improvement to spells that create battlefield hazards. We might rewrite a spell like Cloud of Daggers like this:
A creature takes 4d4 slashing damage when it enters the spell’s area for the first time on a turn or if it is within the area when the spell is cast. A creature also takes this damage if it ends it's turn within the spells area.
The caster is now happy that he gets to roll damage immediately when he casts the spell. But it also improves the balance of the spell, as kicking a creature into the spells area guarantees damage but doesn't double dip damage. Furthermore, the persistent damage most closely aligns with loitering in the spells area, but is otherwise still triggered each round.
Spirit guardians however can't be written this way without causing problems already mentioned. However, making a creature take damage at the end of their turn can just be tacked onto the spell; though this is a wildly unnecessary buff.
On a Turn VS On Their Turn
At surface level, the difference between dealing damage when a creature enters the spell on a turn and their turn just means pushing a creature into the emanation doesn't cause damage. For Spirit Guardians that in itself is more balanced as pushing them into the area forces them to start their turn there and take damage already, so as not to deal damage twice in one round for no reason.
But it also has a big impact on the clarity of the text, for example:
Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn or begins their turn there they must make a wisdom save.
The spell being cast over a creature or the area moving into them can't be interpreted as them entering the emanation this way. Meanwhile it's now impossible for the spell to deal damage twice per round; a minor nerf, but not really unreasonable.
It can also be written:
Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn (or begins their turn there) they must make a wisdom save.
The parentheses construing no difference between entering for the first time and beginning there, removing the need for a once per turn save restriction, but possibly adding confusion as to if that's the case.
Conclusion
If you want to give an unnecessary buff to spirit guardians encouraging enemies to leave the area, write it like this:
Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn and whenever they begin or end their turn there they must make a wisdom save. (Do not include a line prohibiting two saves per turn).
If you want to reprint Spirit Guardians to be more clear, while slightly rebalancing it, write it like this:
Whenever a creature enters the emanation for the first time on their turn or begins their turn there they must make a wisdom save.
If you want to do neither of these things then leave the spell alone.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Afterword: Dealing Damage When Cast
If you can't reasonably make the spell deal damage when cast, but want to make sure that it at least deals damage the round it was cast, change the duration to:
1 round + concentration
This is however 5e after all, and players barely read the spells as is, so such a quality of life would probably be completely overlooked and ignored in actual play.
For me, the 2014 and 2024 spells are just different in how they behave, and it's hard for me to say whether one is better or worse. But I think the 2024 version is at least easy to understand and apply during the games.
The intent for the 2014 Spirit Guardians and spells with similar wording was clarified in the SAC: Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature?
There are some recent posts sharing different opinions about the new spell:
The new spirit guardians is abusable. Each of the players in the same group can grapple and move the cleric around on their turns causing multiple intances of damage just by moving the cleric around. A group of players with with bonus action dash or haste can trivialize most encounters with this tactic. Its really stupid. I think they will errata it by only being able to do damage on the clerics turn.
This is one of those theorycraft things that I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to actually happen. And if it does you can pull out the DMG where it says:
Don’t let players attack each other or helpless creatures to activate those rules.
And since a grapple is an attack, ta-da, theorycraft nonsense fixed.
And to the OP, to my mind, when you cast the spell, any enemies in the area have entered the emanation. They weren’t in it before the spell was cast, now they are, therefore they have entered it. Don’t overthink it. If it helps, you can think of the emanation as starting in the caster’s square and expanding outward in a wave, so it enters their square that way.
On subsequent turns after casting Spirit Guardians, the cleric can also move in a manner to have the Emanation enters a creature’s space, move back and Ready to move there again on another creature's turn as his action.
Overthinking it would be asking "does casting count as them entering it" and then wilfully misinterpreting the spell in a way that makes it deal double damage on round 1. You shouldn't need to read the sage advice explicitly prohibiting this. Misinterpreting it this way makes it an instantaneous damage spell equal to fireball on top of its awesome persistent damage.
There's a reason 2024 spirit guardians deals damage when cast but not at the beginning of a creatures turn. Though as mentioned in excruciating detail within the OP, this greatly improves a spell like Cloud of Daggers, but causes problems with spirit guardians.