Pretty simple question, but to put it more complicated. An adult Sliver dragon is a Cr 16. Here are the differences

• Silver has one more AC than the white version
• Silver 43 more hit points
• Silver doesn't have the burrow or swim speed or the ice walk feature of the white.
• Silver has a slightly better +2 modifier for attacks and better Int, Wis, and Cha.
• The Silver breath weapon is considerably better I admit, but that is really the only major difference from what I could tell.
• Silver can change shape, but I imagine this is mostly for story purposes.

I don't know, but it seems to me like this isn't worth an entire 3 Challenge rating and an extra 5,000 XP.
Can a silver dragon really put up that much more of a fight than the white version? I feel like a party of 4 level 8 characters wouldn't even notice the difference in actual combat, but would be losing out on a potential 5000 extra experience. I mean especially if you take into account the draconic which doesn't really add anything except magic resistance and adds another point of CR going from a 5'000 XP increase to an 8'000 XP increase.

Something to note: I am still using the 2014 version of the monster manual as of now, so I don't know if the new version has any major differences.

Please tell me if there is anything that I missed here or if you have some sort of explanation for the big difference in CR. Thank you for reading.

You missed the paralyzing breath, which seems pretty powerful.

That's what I was referring to when saying that the Silvers breath weapon is considerably better. Its true that the paralyzing breath is really strong but its only one attack that can only be used after it recharges. It is only one difference that to me doesn't really feel like its something that makes the encounter that much more difficult.

Its not a little better that breath weapon is ridiculously better. If you don't have con as a primary save, you are most likely out of the entire fight. And then it has hold monster with a crazy high DC to mop up the people with a good con save as almost no one has both a good con and good wisdom saves. 

Its a DC 20 check basically giving Free DMG for the rest of the turn to those that fail. But I still believe you might overestimate how high that is.

I feel like all characters should have at least a 10 or above constitution, so the check isn't impossible especially if a tank with high constitution succeeds and helps the others. but also, the dragons attacks can only target one player at a time. The average damage output in one turn 49 damage and that is only for one target. So, in theory, the paralyzing isn't better if all the characters are incapacitated just for that round lets say. Where as the cold breath has the same DC, but automatically does an average of 29 damage each even if they all succeed and maybe even an average of 58 each even if they all fail (only a four damage difference than the white dragon). If all 4 characters were hit by the cold breath that would be an average total of:
116 if they fail
232 if they succeed

As for what you are saying with the Frightening Presence, Level 8 barbarians are immune to being frightened first of all, meaning the one most likely to survive the breath attack is also surviving just fine, any druids, rangers, or even wizards should have good constitution and wisdom. And this check is only a DC 18, which is a 2 point deduction. Not to mention that once someone succeeds on the check they won't have to worry about it ever again.

Anyways, you make an argument that paralyzing breath is worth pretty much the majority of the three extra points (four if you count Dracolich) of CR and I'm not totally convinced.

If my previous argument is not satisfactory, take an adult blue dragon instead another CR 16

• Silver dragons may have less health than blue but they make up for it with their higher DC's for saving throws making them pretty much equal
• But what's this!? Blue dragons have no paralyzing breath, shouldn't they be CR 13 or 14?
• What's more, the maximum health points of the White dragon could be modified up to 288 (16*12 +96) HP which doesn't change its challenge rating.

So yes my question still stands, How can the Silver dragons or Blue dragons be THAT much more challenging. Personally I've never actually run a comparison encounter, so that should be my next step in research. Anyways, thanks again for reading, have a great day.

Its not impossible but its a 80-85% fail rate for most players.  And the dragon can spam it every round by giving up one attack. The party is toast, only a high con proficient in con save character is not incapacitated or paralyzed pretty much  every round from the get go, and those guys still probably are 1/2 the rounds. As for the blue dragon, it probably shouldn't be 3 CRs higher than the white but it should be higher. The cloaked flying will make it so the party had disadvantage on attacks fairly often. 

Ok, So a couple things, first of all. I apologize but I don't think I fully understand what (Recharge 5-6) Means, but I never realized that the dragons could spam it by giving up an attack. and if that is the case, couldn't all dragons just do that?

Second: cloaked flying?

Just a reminder, I do not have the 2025 Monster Manual yet, so I don't know if these are rules or changes only in the updated version.

EDIT: the OP clarified that the conversation is about the 2014 dragon.

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This is the action for an 2024 Adult Silver Dragon:

Paralyzing Breath. Constitution Saving Throw: DC 20, each creature in a 60-foot Cone. First Failure: The target has the Incapacitated condition until the end of its next turn, when it repeats the save. Second Failure: The target has the Paralyzed condition, and it repeats the save at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. After 1 minute, it succeeds automatically.

Recharge remains the same as in the 2014 MM (link to free rules):

Recharge X–Y. This notation means a monster can use the stat block part once. At the start of each of the monster’s turns, roll 1d6. If the roll is within the number range given in the notation (represented by X–Y), the monster regains the use of that part, which also recharges when the monster finishes a Short or Long Rest. For example, “Recharge 5–6” in an action means a monster can take the action once. Then, at the start of each of the monster’s turns, it regains the use of that action if it rolls a 5 or 6 on 1d6.

Yes, so that is how I've been doing it. And I'm glad I've been doing it correctly. So back to my original point:

1. Dragons cannot spam.(unless they get very lucky)
2. I still have no Idea what 'cloaked flying is'
3. If a party is strong enough to kill a white dragon, they should be able to kill a silver one without very much added difficulty.

So, still from what I can tell, numbers only. Either White needs to go up? or the other dragons need to go down. Or maybe meet in the middle or something. Also, No ones addressing the increase in Cr from Blue Adult Dragon to Blue adult Dracolich. which is a 3000 XP difference by the way.

Cold breath has a recharge, paralyzing breath does not. Maybe the intent is for them both to have it, but its only listed under the cold breath. In 2014 under the header of breath weapons it gave the recharge, in 2024 it lists in only under cold breath. 

Edit to add and sorry, i missed the 2014 provision, i was using 2024. But even 2014 I think you are underestimating the breath weapon.

Quote from Cleseus_Of_Castigonia >>

 

1. I still have no Idea what 'cloaked flying is'

it is the ability to turn invisible at will once a round at the end of anyone's turn. So the wizard casts a spell, their turn is over the blue dragon turns invisible and flies away. Until the white dragon goes again and spoils their invisibility per the spell, basically attack .  And until then everyone will have disadvantage attacking it assuming they know where it is, also some spells wont be able to target it as they require the caster to see the target. 1 more Ac isn't that big of a deal, 1 more AC while attacking at disadvantage is a pretty big deal. All of this is assuming they do not have a counter to invisibility which is not uncommon, there are cantrips that deal with it now.  

Uuuuuh. False.

Breath Weapons (Recharge 5-6). The dragon uses one of the following breath weapons:

Cold Breath. the dragon exhales an icy blast in a 60-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 20 Constitution saving throw, taking 58 (13d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.

Paralyzing Breath. The dragon exhales a paralyzing gas in a 60 foot cone. Each creature in that area must succeed on a DC 20 saving throw or be paralyzed for 1 minute. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.

Sorry for lack of tooltips. Quoted directly from 2014 Monster Manual.

Sorry I keep using 2024, yes 2014 it is for both, in 2024 its for only cold breath. And yes the gap in 2014 makes less sense, though I still say you are underestimating the breath weapon. Its a TPK waiting to happen. 

edit to add and i got nothing for the blue in 2014 compared to the white, unless they really think int saves on the white dragon are a crippling weakness. 

Do you speak from experience?

Edit: and yes, honestly the blue dragon difference is even more confuzzling. But I just mentioned silver to white because I was thinking about the difference between silvers and their chromatic counterparts. Also, should mention this again, but I'm very grateful for any and all inputs on the discussion.

Quote from Cleseus_Of_Castigonia >>

Do you speak from experience?

Edit: and yes, honestly the blue dragon difference is even more confuzzling. But I just mentioned silver to white because I was thinking about the difference between silvers and their chromatic counterparts. Also, should mention this again, but I'm very grateful for any and all inputs on the discussion.

And yes I speak from experience. The fighter rolled a 5 on their save. Everyone else needed to roll a 18, none of them did. With them all incapacitated it was easy for the dragon to grab two fly into orbit while attacking them, getting crits and then drop them for 20d6, they were dying far enough away from the remaining party members healing them wasn't an option.  Only the fighter recovered enough to try and fight but by then the fight was over. AoE crowd control can win a fight with a single go. in 2024 they added some break out abilities for some classes but it should be the default.  I know MMOs aren't the best example but there is a reason wow added ways to break crowd control on every class/race. Though don't get me wrong I enjoyed it not being there in old school wow since I played a warlock, fear spam for the win. I've seen multiple party wipes from abilities like this, I've run a couple myself so now I mostly avoid them. Players don't like a single spell, breath weapon etc just wiping them out, and they don't like the DM coming up with a fix like reinforcements, the enemy takes mercy on you, or monologues long enough for you to break free etc. 

For the white dragon if I were to guess why its CR is so much lower than even the blue dragons,(outside CR sucks and they get the numbers wrong a lot) it may be the int stat the more I think about it. Dragons are powerful, but dragons that fight tactically because they have the intelligence to do so are monsters. The lower CR may be a nod to how you are supposed to play the white dragon more as a brute, flying in and attacking without much in the way of tactics. 

You have a great point for that second option and that's really something I don't consider a lot, which is that you should play as tactically as you think the enemy would play based off its intelligence. But of course, players play to the best of their tactical ability even if they have intelligence 8. But yeah its an interesting difference that I never considered. But I do have a couple of questions from your dragon encounter.

First of all: is grabbing them and flying them 80 feet in the air something they can do. I mean I don't really see why not, but it's not really an attack. Theoretically, dragons should be able to grapple any low strength players and do that to them regardless.

Second: how come the fight was just 'over' as you put it. why were the players so far away that healing wasn't an option?

Third: also, to me it feels like you may have just gotten very unlucky. I don't know what level your party was or how many were in it, so I don't really know what your chances were. But, I mean if the paralyzing breath is really as strong as you say, what level should players be when fighting a Silver dragon. I mean, how much better do their chances get when leveling up. Sure you might get a +1 increase, some classes might even get advantage on this sort of stuff, but if the fight can go out the way you describe it, I feel like players could end up with this sort of stuff happening no matter what level they are. (Of course level 17-20+ is just overpowered so lets not count that)

I think White Dragons are lower CR than Blue Dragons because Cold damage is much more commonly resisted. I can think of quite a few features that provide resistance to it, but I can only think of a couple that resist Lightning damage.

Quote from Platyboss >>

I think White Dragons are lower CR than Blue Dragons because Cold damage is much more commonly resisted. I can think of quite a few features that provide resistance to it, but I can only think of a couple that resist Lightning damage.

 It's a good difference, but take a look at the shambling mound and gladiator stat blocks. They are the same CR.

• Gladiators have 14 Cr, or 16 with a shield when the mound always has 15, But gladiators have a parry adding 3 once per round.
• Gladiators have 112 Hp while the mounds have 136.
• Gladiators may have a higher damage output with three attacks per turn, but shambling mounds can theoretically restrain someone with their grab.

Given all this I can sort of see why they'd be the same. They're pretty much even. But if lightning resistances are so powerful, then not only does the mound have resistances to cold and fire, it literally Heals from lightning! So if they are the same CR then I don't think that the White and Blue CR difference can be because of the lightning immunity.

Quote from Cleseus_Of_Castigonia >>

You have a great point for that second option and that's really something I don't consider a lot, which is that you should play as tactically as you think the enemy would play based off its intelligence. But of course, players play to the best of their tactical ability even if they have intelligence 8. But yeah its an interesting difference that I never considered. But I do have a couple of questions from your dragon encounter.

First of all: is grabbing them and flying them 80 feet in the air something they can do. I mean I don't really see why not, but it's not really an attack. Theoretically, dragons should be able to grapple any low strength players and do that to them regardless.

Second: how come the fight was just 'over' as you put it. why were the players so far away that healing wasn't an option?

Third: also, to me it feels like you may have just gotten very unlucky. I don't know what level your party was or how many were in it, so I don't really know what your chances were. But, I mean if the paralyzing breath is really as strong as you say, what level should players be when fighting a Silver dragon. I mean, how much better do their chances get when leveling up. Sure you might get a +1 increase, some classes might even get advantage on this sort of stuff, but if the fight can go out the way you describe it, I feel like players could end up with this sort of stuff happening no matter what level they are. (Of course level 17-20+ is just overpowered so lets not count that)

There is no reason why a dragon can not grapple. About the only rules convenience I gave them is allowing them to get 2 grapples off on paralyzed enemies instead of a bite/claw in the round they were grabbed. But it seemed reasonable given they were paralyzed. 

80 feet of Flight allows the dragon to drop people in places it will take too many rounds for their party members to get to in order to heal them. Especially given their lairs are among the clouds, in mountains with ridiculously high peaks. You are only flying a few round sup and out, but the drop is hundreds of feat down as its a off a mountain cliff, but damage caps off at 200 feet and 20d6 so everything after that is moot. And that is assuming the DM is not as nice as I was and it didn't just finish them off while unconscious and bury them in rubble a human sized character couldn't hope to move so they can't even resurrect them. But in this case its the cleric and wizard that are dying and the rogue and fighter would need to find a way to them multiple rounds away to use a healing potion. If the wizard had not been killed then things like dimension door to get there in time is an option. But when you just have to hoof it and lots of the movement involves climbing which is not really towards them but over the obstacle so you can start to move towards them its just not an option anymore when a dragon is coming back to kill you. 

And no leveling does not help much against the breath weapon as the save system in 5e is such that unless its one of your 2 primary saves it does not increase at all as you level but the DCs you face does. So higher level characters fail saves more often than low level ones. It is possible a character might take resilient con, usually a caster as an option instead of warcaster, but most seem to take warcaster. And yes sure it might go up by one if they use a stat boost on con. That is not incredibly uncommon but plenty of character have things they value in other areas and think the 14 con is enough. And statistically they were not that unlucky except the rogue who rolled like 10 times and never got a 18 I don't remember how many rounds the fight lasted, 3 people rolling and needing to roll a 18 or higher lots of times will fail, heck probably the majority of times will result in all of them failing. The cleric and wizard only failed twice, but they were unconscious before they had a chance to roll a 3rd time so its kind of moot. And 4 rolls not hitting 18 or a d20 is probably like 50/50 chance one of them gets 1 success. So not really that unlucky. The 2024 version can spam it now from how I read it but at least its only incapacitated in the first save, paralyzed on the 2nd. 2014 it starts of paralyzed so every attack by the dragon is a crit. The only real bout of unlucky was they were caught in a position where the dragons breath hit all of them. But 60 foot cones are pretty huge so its not always easy to avoid that. And don't get me wrong I am sure a more optimized party would have solutions for this, so the odds of them all failing their saves would be far less. But I don't think the CR system assumes optimization to that degree with specific feats or taking a one level fighter dip as your starting class etc. 

Funnily enough the only reason they were fighting the silver dragon is we were playing an evil campaign. If they had been neutral or good, the drop would not have killed them as being close to the dragons lair would have given them something like a feather fall effect. Which for that dragon was its test to see if he should kill you or just neutralize you. 

It was hinted at, but 2014 CR system is notoriously bad. The vast number of revisions in 2024(5) are due to realigning the monsters to their printed CRs. But that kind of gives an unsatisfying answer to the question "Why is a White dragon CR 13 when a Silver dragon is CR 16?"... "Because CR is a bad metric in 2014." Note that they did not change any of the CRs for any of the monsters in the new MM, so the White is still 13 and the Silver is still 16 (and the Blue is still 16).

Regardless, part of that CR difference might be due to their CHA and INT scores and, specifically, what they do to their saves. Silver and Blue dragons have a far better chance at saving against player effects that target those two vs. the White dragon. Unless you're targeting DEX with a save against the CR 16 dragons, it will be tough to land. With the White, you have half of their saves being subpar (for level).