Can I get some clarification on the Ranger Beast Master's Primal Companion?
As I understand it the beast would get an action, bonus action (at lvl.7) and a reaction. The beast's attack action command and the bonus action command are probably mutually exclusive to each other as the beast would only have a single action to spend. Meaning I could only do one or the other and not both in the same turn.
So, I could do: Nick attack > second different light weapon attack > a Beast strike as a bonus action. or Nick attack > Sacrifice second attack for Beast strike > bonus action Hunters mark or other bonus action.
But not: Nick attack > Sacrifice second attack for Beast attack > bonus action Beast attack again. (This would use two beast actions.)
And the way Sacrificing an attack is worded seems to imply it can only be use on the Beast strike action and not another action like disengage. Does that sound right?
My understanding for the Level 3: Primal Companion feature:
- You take your Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block (Beast’s Strike is the only available, really) or some other action (e.g. Dash, Help, Hide)
- You can alsosacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
[...] And the way Sacrificing an attack is worded seems to imply it can only be use on the Beast strike action and not another action like disengage. Does that sound right?
I think you're right, yes.
EDIT: regarding Level 7: Exceptional Training:
When you take a Bonus Action to command your Primal Companion beast to take an action, you can also command it to take the Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action using its Bonus Action.
In this case, you use your BA to command your beast to take an action (e.g. Beast’s Strike) + the Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action using the beast's Bonus Action.
Not sure if this is needed because your DM is probably already aware (and TBH it's a bit off-topic on my part, sorry), but just in case, I wanted to add that there's a debate about the order for Nick: whether the Nick weapon mastery is activated when you make the Light additional attack (which is my take), or on the initial attack (as you wrote in your post).
I disagree with TarodNet about the beast being able to take the beast strike action twice on your turn. The rest is correct.
The feature only gives you two ways to command your beast. The beast itself still has the same limitations as any other creature in that it can only use its movement, action, and bonus action on its turn. It doesn't get 2 actions because you command it twice, it can still only take one action on its turn which is taken during your turn.
I disagree with TarodNet about the beast being able to take the beast strike action twice on your turn. The rest is correct.
The feature only gives you two ways to command your beast. The beast itself still has the same limitations as any other creature in that it can only use its movement, action, and bonus action on its turn. It doesn't get 2 actions because you command it twice, it can still only take one action on its turn which is taken during your turn.
Ya my issue is that the feature only tells you that you can command the beast. You commanding the beast and what the beast can actually do are different. The last post on your second link has the same take as me without anyone refuting it. Half the discussions on this forum are inane so I take little stock in whether the forum reached a consensus or not. Take the arguments in the magical darkness post as an example. If you command any of the summons from the summon spells to do something they can't actually do, they don't suddenly gain the ability to do what you commanded them.
My understanding is that creatures can't take more than one action on a turn unless a feature like action surge lets them. You can make the case that the ranger feature is letting the beast take more than one action but that's not what the feature actually says. They should clean up the language to make it clearer. As it is the DM has to make a ruling and I think a core rules subclass shouldn't need a DM ruling to determine how it functions.
It says that incase you want to use your bonus action instead. Rangers have a descent number of things to do with their bonus actions, so it's just an additional choice. The beast still only has one action, so it can't attack twice. The Ranger only commands the beast and the beast does the thing using its own action economy. https://vshare****/
I come to the same conclusion as TarodNet if a Ranger Beast Master spends enought ressource, the beast can attack twice;
You can take Bonus Action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
None of your bullet points address the fact that the beast only has one action. It doesn't gain another action because you command it. If that's the case then please tell me why the beast can't dodge and take the beast strike action when you command it once. It specifically says "the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action." If you're interpretation is that commanding it allows it to break this action limit why can't it dodge as well with its own action instead of the action granted by commanding it?
I come to the same conclusion as TarodNet if a Ranger Beast Master spends enought ressource, the beast can attack twice;
You can take Bonus Action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
None of your bullet points address the fact that the beast only has one action. It doesn't gain another action because you command it. If that's the case then please tell me why the beast can't dodge and take the beast strike action when you command it once. It specifically says "the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action." If you're interpretation is that commanding it allows it to break this action limit why can't it dodge as well with its own action instead of the action granted by commanding it?
I know this is meant for Plaguescarred, but I don't get the question.
Actually, the answer is in the feature. By defaultthe only action it takes is the Dodge action. Unless you spend your Bonus Action to command it another thing (maybe Dodge, which would be a bit odd).
In addition to that, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
I come to the same conclusion as TarodNet if a Ranger Beast Master spends enought ressource, the beast can attack twice;
You can take Bonus Action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
None of your bullet points address the fact that the beast only has one action. It doesn't gain another action because you command it. If that's the case then please tell me why the beast can't dodge and take the beast strike action when you command it once. It specifically says "the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action." If you're interpretation is that commanding it allows it to break this action limit why can't it dodge as well with its own action instead of the action granted by commanding it?
I know this is meant for Plaguescarred, but I don't get the question.
Actually, the answer is in the feature. By defaultthe only action it takes is the Dodge action. Unless you spend your Bonus Action to command it another thing (maybe Dodge, which would be a bit odd).
In addition to that, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
A creature normally only has one action on a turn. According to your interpretation the beast will be able to take an additional action because you command it to. What's to stop the beast from dodging at the start of your turn because you haven't issued a command yet, then you command it to attack with a bonus action, and command it to attack again with your attack action?
Or what's to stop the beast from dodging at the start of the turn since it doesn't need a command to do that and then you command it using one of the command options. If the argument is that the beast can take an additional action because the feature can be interpreted to say so why can't it dodge as well as attack with a single command. Nothing in the statement about dodge says it can't take another action on its turn so why grant another action for attacks but not dodging.
If the argument is that the command gives it an extra action would that not always be true?
Yeah probably not intended or with Bestial Fury it would add up fast.
As an extra example of the logical conclusion of your interpretation.
According to your interpretation, the beast can take the actions you command it to even if it's used it's action already and shouldn't be able to take another action. This gets really ridiculous at 7th and 11th level. At level 7 the only action it can take on its own is dodge so it dodges. If you command it to attack with your bonus action you can also command it to disengage or dash with its bonus action as per the exceptional training feature. Then you can command it to attack again using your attack action. The beast can therefore dodge, disengage or dash, and attack 2 times at level 7, 4 times at level 11. At level 11 your beast is arguably better than a monk following your interpretation. This clearly doesn't make sense and isn't how the feature works because a creature can only take one action on their turn unless a feature lets them take more. The ranger feature only does what it says it does and it says you can command, not that the beast can actually do the command.
If we want to get more ridiculous following the idea that the beast does what you command it regardless of whether or not it has the ability to then paralyzing the beast doesn't matter. As long as you command it to attack it can attack.
I come to the same conclusion as TarodNet if a Ranger Beast Master spends enought ressource, the beast can attack twice;
You can take Bonus Action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
None of your bullet points address the fact that the beast only has one action. It doesn't gain another action because you command it. If that's the case then please tell me why the beast can't dodge and take the beast strike action when you command it once. It specifically says "the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action." If you're interpretation is that commanding it allows it to break this action limit why can't it dodge as well with its own action instead of the action granted by commanding it?
I know this is meant for Plaguescarred, but I don't get the question.
Actually, the answer is in the feature. By defaultthe only action it takes is the Dodge action. Unless you spend your Bonus Action to command it another thing (maybe Dodge, which would be a bit odd).
In addition to that, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
A creature normally only has one action on a turn. According to your interpretation the beast will be able to take an additional action because you command it to. What's to stop the beast from dodging at the start of your turn because you haven't issued a command yet, then you command it to attack with a bonus action, and command it to attack again with your attack action?
Got it now, but I didn't say that.
Putting aside the "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action..." part, it either takes the Dodge action or follows a command using your Bonus Action, not both.
Just a reference, this was similar with the 2014 Ranger's Companion:
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, or Help action. If you don’t issue a command, the beast takes the Dodge action.
Anyway, I already explained how I understand the feature. I also said there are other POVs, and that’s fine.
Putting aside the "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action..." part, it either takes the Dodge action or follows a command using your Bonus Action, not both.
This was similar with the 2014 Ranger's Companion:
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, or Help action. If you don’t issue a command, the beast takes the Dodge action.
Anyway, I already explained how I understand the feature. I also said there are other POVs, and that’s fine.
Please don't omit crucial text in a feature to try to make an argument. When you omit the "to command the beast" part of "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action" it seems like you're implying that the beast taking the beast strike action is really one of your attacks. You're only sacrificing an attack to give a command. Your argument is that since you can command the beast it can take the action even if it has already used its action. This argument ignores the rules on how a turn works found in the combat section of the PHB. No where in the text of the feature does it say that commanding the beast gives it an additional action and your interpretation does.
If commanding the beast lets it ignore the one action per turn rule then nothing is preventing the beast from taking the dodge action before you command it and then attacking from your command. The phrase "but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action" does not prevent the beast from being commanded to do something else after it dodges. If you want to make the claim that you did in this post, you're admitting that the beast only gets one action per turn and thus can't take the beast strike action after dodging. That line only limits the actions the beast can do on its own to dodging and then you could give it more actions through your commands following the same logic that you are employing. This line of thought, that the one action per turn rule doesn't apply to commands for your beast, would lead to a level 11 ranger's beast making 4 attacks, dodging, and dashing or disengaging on a turn. That's more than a monk can do.
You can claim that this is an exception to the one action per turn rule but that argument doesn't hold any water. Nowhere does it say the beast can take more than one action on a turn. Every feature that grants additional actions uses the term "additional action" and the ranger feature does not say "additional action" anywhere. Since it doesn't say this is an additional action then it isn't an additional action and must follow the normal turn rules.
Putting aside the "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action..." part, it either takes the Dodge action or follows a command using your Bonus Action, not both.
This was similar with the 2014 Ranger's Companion:
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, or Help action. If you don’t issue a command, the beast takes the Dodge action.
Anyway, I already explained how I understand the feature. I also said there are other POVs, and that’s fine.
Please don't omit crucial text in a feature to try to make an argument. [...]
I only omitted the text to keep the post shorter, nothing else. But sorry.
[...] Your argument is that since you can command the beast it can take the action even if it has already used its action. This argument ignores the rules on how a turn works found in the combat section of the PHB. No where in the text of the feature does it say that commanding the beast gives it an additional action and your interpretation does.
If commanding the beast lets it ignore the one action per turn rule then nothing is preventing the beast from taking the dodge action before you command it and then attacking from your command. The phrase "but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action" does not prevent the beast from being commanded to do something else after it dodges. If you want to make the claim that you did in this post, you're admitting that the beast only gets one action per turn and thus can't take the beast strike action after dodging. That line only limits the actions the beast can do on its own to dodging and then you could give it more actions through your commands following the same logic that you are employing. [...]
Action 1.1) The only action it takes is the Dodge action.
Action 1.2) It doesn't take the Dodge action if you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action.
Action 2) In addition to the Action 1, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
Exception) If you have the Incapacitated condition, the beast acts on its own and isn’t limited to the Dodge action.
[...] Every feature that grants additional actions uses the term "additional action" and the ranger feature does not say "additional action" anywhere. Since it doesn't say this is an additional action then it isn't an additional action and must follow the normal turn rules.
If commanding the beast lets it ignore the one action per turn rule then nothing is preventing the beast from taking the dodge action before you command it and then attacking from your command. The phrase "but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action" does not prevent the beast from being commanded to do something else after it dodges. If you want to make the claim that you did in this post, you're admitting that the beast only gets one action per turn and thus can't take the beast strike action after dodging. That line only limits the actions the beast can do on its own to dodging and then you could give it more actions through your commands following the same logic that you are employing. [...]
Action 1.1) The only action it takes is the Dodge action.
Action 1.2) It doesn't take the Dodge action if you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action.
Action 2) In addition to the Action 1, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
Exception) If you have the Incapacitated condition, the beast acts on its own and isn’t limited to the Dodge action.
This is incongruent with your interpretation. The text does not say that the beast dodges OR follows your commands. It says that without commands the only thing it can do is dodge. You're adding a limitation that doesn't exist in the text. The feature only says what the beast does by itself. If commanding the beast give it the capacity to perform more than one action on a turn, then there is nothing stopping it from dodging on its own and then following your commands. This sequence of yours does not follow the logic of your own argument. My entire point in bringing up this incongruence and taking it further at level 7 and 11 is to show that this interpretation leads to a ridiculous logical conclusion. If that's the case maybe your interpretation is wrong.
[...] Every feature that grants additional actions uses the term "additional action" and the ranger feature does not say "additional action" anywhere. Since it doesn't say this is an additional action then it isn't an additional action and must follow the normal turn rules.
Where did you see that wording?
Haste and Action surge are the only features that I can think of that grant additional actions. Both say additional action to indicate that you can take multiple action on your turn. Since this isn't an additional action, it has to follow the one action per turn rule. In the spell Sunbeam it says "Until the spell ends, you can take a Magic action to create a new Line of radiance", giving the ability to take a magic action. Following the logic of your argument, why can't you take a different action and the magic action to create a new line of radiance? The feature is granting you an action please explain why you can't do both.
I feel that there isn't much left to say about this. If you interpret the line "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action" to mean that it grants your beast an additional action ignoring rules about one action per turn, then see if your DM will allow it. It isn't worded like the other exceptions to the one action per turn rule like Haste or Action Surge, so the logical conclusion is that you're supposed to follow that core rule with this feature. That interpretation ignores the core rule about what creatures can do on a turn without being an exception, but ultimately if your DM allows it then it's okay. The logical conclusion of your interpretation is the beast making 4 attacks, dodging, and dashing or disengaging at level 11.
Action 1.1) The only action it takes is the Dodge action.
Action 1.2) It doesn't take the Dodge action if you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action.
Action 2) In addition to the Action 1, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
Exception) If you have the Incapacitated condition, the beast acts on its own and isn’t limited to the Dodge action.
This is incongruent with your interpretation. The text does not say that the beast dodges OR follows your commands.
I'm just interpreting the feature based on context and because it's a feature. Usually, features, feats, or spells override general rules. I also recall they called "united unit" and "working in tandem" in New Ranger | 2024 Player's Handbook (min. 14.55)
[...] Every feature that grants additional actions uses the term "additional action" and the ranger feature does not say "additional action" anywhere. Since it doesn't say this is an additional action then it isn't an additional action and must follow the normal turn rules.
Where did you see that wording?
Haste and Action surge are the only features that I can think of that grant additional actions. Both say additional action to indicate that you can take multiple action on your turn. Since this isn't an additional action, it has to follow the one action per turn rule.
When you said "features", I thought the wording was used in more than one feature. The other case is actually a spell.
"you can also" is much more common across the chapters.
[...] In the spell Sunbeam it says "Until the spell ends, you can take a Magic action to create a new Line of radiance", giving the ability to take a magic action. Following the logic of your argument, why can't you take a different action and the magic action to create a new line of radiance? The feature is granting you an action please explain why you can't do both.
It's a spell that lets you take that action if you want to create the described effect. It's optional. If you don't want to do it, you can take any other action on your turn. There's no use of words like "also," "additional," or "extra."
I feel that there isn't much left to say about this.
Action 1.1) The only action it takes is the Dodge action.
Action 1.2) It doesn't take the Dodge action if you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action.
Action 2) In addition to the Action 1, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
Exception) If you have the Incapacitated condition, the beast acts on its own and isn’t limited to the Dodge action.
This is incongruent with your interpretation. The text does not say that the beast dodges OR follows your commands.
I'm just interpreting the feature based on context and because it's a feature. Usually, features, feats, or spells override general rules. I also recall they called "united unit" and "working in tandem" in New Ranger | 2024 Player's Handbook (min. 14.55)
This response tells me you aren't arguing in good faith because you won't even address my arguments. I already refuted the idea that this is a specific rule overriding a general rule. It's kinda been the core of my argument. I just haven't been using those terms because I thought it was relatively self-explanatory. None of your responses really address what I've been saying.
1. This specific rule does not grant the beast an additional action. No where in the feature does it say that the beast can take an additional action on a turn when commanded so you must therefore follow the general rule of one action per turn. I made this argument in post 6 and post 15 and you ignored it both places. The only things that grant additional actions say they grant additional actions. Blackrazor, potion of speed, haste, and action surge are the only things I can find that grant additional actions. Blackrazor and potion of speed reference haste. Haste and action surge specifically say additional action. If you can find an example otherwise or an example of the phrase "you can also" allowing an addition action, please prove me wrong. Otherwise, you're conceding that the paradigm for granting additional actions on a turn is defined by haste and action surge.
2. Features only do what they say they do. The lines you keep citing only give you the ability to command the beast. The beast has to resolve your commands with its own action, movement, bonus action, and reaction. If it has already taken an action, it can't take another because there is no specific rule granting it the ability to take more than one action on a turn.
3.You intrinsically agree that you should follow the one action per turn by rejecting the beast's ability to dodge and take the action that it's commanded to. If commanding the beast gives it an additional action, why reject that in this situation? You tried to respond with a misreading of the feature where you believe it says that the beast can dodge or follow your commands. When I pointed out your misreading you deflected and didn't answer. Normally that response is considered a concession of the point.
Once again, it's ultimately up to a DM. A DM can homebrew things however they want to. Please prove me wrong though. I'd love for the beast master ranger to be able to ride into combat on a beast of the land, have the beast make 4 attacks, and have the ranger make 2 all while the beast is dodging and dashing. That just isn't how the feature works.
Can I get some clarification on the Ranger Beast Master's Primal Companion?
As I understand it the beast would get an action, bonus action (at lvl.7) and a reaction. The beast's attack action command and the bonus action command are probably mutually exclusive to each other as the beast would only have a single action to spend. Meaning I could only do one or the other and not both in the same turn.
So, I could do:
Nick attack > second different light weapon attack > a Beast strike as a bonus action.
or
Nick attack > Sacrifice second attack for Beast strike > bonus action Hunters mark or other bonus action.
But not:
Nick attack > Sacrifice second attack for Beast attack > bonus action Beast attack again.
(This would use two beast actions.)
And the way Sacrificing an attack is worded seems to imply it can only be use on the Beast strike action and not another action like disengage. Does that sound right?
My understanding for the Level 3: Primal Companion feature:
- You take your Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block (Beast’s Strike is the only available, really) or some other action (e.g. Dash, Help, Hide)
- You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
So I think both things are possible on your turn.
I think you're right, yes.
EDIT: regarding Level 7: Exceptional Training:
In this case, you use your BA to command your beast to take an action (e.g. Beast’s Strike) + the Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help action using the beast's Bonus Action.
Not sure if this is needed because your DM is probably already aware (and TBH it's a bit off-topic on my part, sorry), but just in case, I wanted to add that there's a debate about the order for Nick: whether the Nick weapon mastery is activated when you make the Light additional attack (which is my take), or on the initial attack (as you wrote in your post).
RAW, it can go either way, but until there's further clarification, my ruling is based on the article Your Guide to Weapon Mastery in the 2024 Player's Handbook
I disagree with TarodNet about the beast being able to take the beast strike action twice on your turn. The rest is correct.
The feature only gives you two ways to command your beast. The beast itself still has the same limitations as any other creature in that it can only use its movement, action, and bonus action on its turn. It doesn't get 2 actions because you command it twice, it can still only take one action on its turn which is taken during your turn.
I could agree with you, but there was a long debate about Tasha's version a few years ago, with no clear consensus: Tasha's primal companion question - Rules & Game Mechanics
And I found today this one: Primal Companions - General Discussion
So it could be read both ways. IMO, the feature creates an exception to the general rules, but that's just my interpretation.
EDIT: I mean, the reason I highlighted "you can also" is because I understand it as meaning "in addition to".
Ya my issue is that the feature only tells you that you can command the beast. You commanding the beast and what the beast can actually do are different. The last post on your second link has the same take as me without anyone refuting it. Half the discussions on this forum are inane so I take little stock in whether the forum reached a consensus or not. Take the arguments in the magical darkness post as an example. If you command any of the summons from the summon spells to do something they can't actually do, they don't suddenly gain the ability to do what you commanded them.
My understanding is that creatures can't take more than one action on a turn unless a feature like action surge lets them. You can make the case that the ranger feature is letting the beast take more than one action but that's not what the feature actually says. They should clean up the language to make it clearer. As it is the DM has to make a ruling and I think a core rules subclass shouldn't need a DM ruling to determine how it functions.
It says that incase you want to use your bonus action instead. Rangers have a descent number of things to do with their bonus actions, so it's just an additional choice. The beast still only has one action, so it can't attack twice. The Ranger only commands the beast and the beast does the thing using its own action economy. https://vshare****/
I come to the same conclusion as TarodNet if a Ranger Beast Master spends enought ressource, the beast can attack twice;
None of your bullet points address the fact that the beast only has one action. It doesn't gain another action because you command it. If that's the case then please tell me why the beast can't dodge and take the beast strike action when you command it once. It specifically says "the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action." If you're interpretation is that commanding it allows it to break this action limit why can't it dodge as well with its own action instead of the action granted by commanding it?
I know this is meant for Plaguescarred, but I don't get the question.
Actually, the answer is in the feature. By default the only action it takes is the Dodge action. Unless you spend your Bonus Action to command it another thing (maybe Dodge, which would be a bit odd).
In addition to that, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast's Strike action.
A creature normally only has one action on a turn. According to your interpretation the beast will be able to take an additional action because you command it to. What's to stop the beast from dodging at the start of your turn because you haven't issued a command yet, then you command it to attack with a bonus action, and command it to attack again with your attack action?
Or what's to stop the beast from dodging at the start of the turn since it doesn't need a command to do that and then you command it using one of the command options. If the argument is that the beast can take an additional action because the feature can be interpreted to say so why can't it dodge as well as attack with a single command. Nothing in the statement about dodge says it can't take another action on its turn so why grant another action for attacks but not dodging.
If the argument is that the command gives it an extra action would that not always be true?
Yeah probably not intended or with Bestial Fury it would add up fast.
As an extra example of the logical conclusion of your interpretation.
According to your interpretation, the beast can take the actions you command it to even if it's used it's action already and shouldn't be able to take another action. This gets really ridiculous at 7th and 11th level. At level 7 the only action it can take on its own is dodge so it dodges. If you command it to attack with your bonus action you can also command it to disengage or dash with its bonus action as per the exceptional training feature. Then you can command it to attack again using your attack action. The beast can therefore dodge, disengage or dash, and attack 2 times at level 7, 4 times at level 11. At level 11 your beast is arguably better than a monk following your interpretation. This clearly doesn't make sense and isn't how the feature works because a creature can only take one action on their turn unless a feature lets them take more. The ranger feature only does what it says it does and it says you can command, not that the beast can actually do the command.
If we want to get more ridiculous following the idea that the beast does what you command it regardless of whether or not it has the ability to then paralyzing the beast doesn't matter. As long as you command it to attack it can attack.
Got it now, but I didn't say that.
Putting aside the "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action..." part, it either takes the Dodge action or follows a command using your Bonus Action, not both.
Just a reference, this was similar with the 2014 Ranger's Companion:
Anyway, I already explained how I understand the feature. I also said there are other POVs, and that’s fine.
Please don't omit crucial text in a feature to try to make an argument. When you omit the "to command the beast" part of "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action" it seems like you're implying that the beast taking the beast strike action is really one of your attacks. You're only sacrificing an attack to give a command. Your argument is that since you can command the beast it can take the action even if it has already used its action. This argument ignores the rules on how a turn works found in the combat section of the PHB. No where in the text of the feature does it say that commanding the beast gives it an additional action and your interpretation does.
If commanding the beast lets it ignore the one action per turn rule then nothing is preventing the beast from taking the dodge action before you command it and then attacking from your command. The phrase "but the only action it takes is the Dodge action unless you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action" does not prevent the beast from being commanded to do something else after it dodges. If you want to make the claim that you did in this post, you're admitting that the beast only gets one action per turn and thus can't take the beast strike action after dodging. That line only limits the actions the beast can do on its own to dodging and then you could give it more actions through your commands following the same logic that you are employing. This line of thought, that the one action per turn rule doesn't apply to commands for your beast, would lead to a level 11 ranger's beast making 4 attacks, dodging, and dashing or disengaging on a turn. That's more than a monk can do.
You can claim that this is an exception to the one action per turn rule but that argument doesn't hold any water. Nowhere does it say the beast can take more than one action on a turn. Every feature that grants additional actions uses the term "additional action" and the ranger feature does not say "additional action" anywhere. Since it doesn't say this is an additional action then it isn't an additional action and must follow the normal turn rules.
I only omitted the text to keep the post shorter, nothing else. But sorry.
I already explained why I think that.
My interpretation again, adding the Dodge action:
Action 1.1) The only action it takes is the Dodge action.
Action 1.2) It doesn't take the Dodge action if you take a Bonus Action to command it to take an action in its stat block or some other action.
Action 2) In addition to the Action 1, you can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action.
Exception) If you have the Incapacitated condition, the beast acts on its own and isn’t limited to the Dodge action.
You know, people were complaining about the 2024 Ranger. Maybe they are good after all.
Where did you see that wording?
This is incongruent with your interpretation. The text does not say that the beast dodges OR follows your commands. It says that without commands the only thing it can do is dodge. You're adding a limitation that doesn't exist in the text. The feature only says what the beast does by itself. If commanding the beast give it the capacity to perform more than one action on a turn, then there is nothing stopping it from dodging on its own and then following your commands. This sequence of yours does not follow the logic of your own argument. My entire point in bringing up this incongruence and taking it further at level 7 and 11 is to show that this interpretation leads to a ridiculous logical conclusion. If that's the case maybe your interpretation is wrong.
Haste and Action surge are the only features that I can think of that grant additional actions. Both say additional action to indicate that you can take multiple action on your turn. Since this isn't an additional action, it has to follow the one action per turn rule. In the spell Sunbeam it says "Until the spell ends, you can take a Magic action to create a new Line of radiance", giving the ability to take a magic action. Following the logic of your argument, why can't you take a different action and the magic action to create a new line of radiance? The feature is granting you an action please explain why you can't do both.
I feel that there isn't much left to say about this. If you interpret the line "You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Beast’s Strike action" to mean that it grants your beast an additional action ignoring rules about one action per turn, then see if your DM will allow it. It isn't worded like the other exceptions to the one action per turn rule like Haste or Action Surge, so the logical conclusion is that you're supposed to follow that core rule with this feature. That interpretation ignores the core rule about what creatures can do on a turn without being an exception, but ultimately if your DM allows it then it's okay. The logical conclusion of your interpretation is the beast making 4 attacks, dodging, and dashing or disengaging at level 11.
When you said "features", I thought the wording was used in more than one feature. The other case is actually a spell.
"you can also" is much more common across the chapters.
It's a spell that lets you take that action if you want to create the described effect. It's optional. If you don't want to do it, you can take any other action on your turn. There's no use of words like "also," "additional," or "extra."
I agree. This was my last post in the thread.
This response tells me you aren't arguing in good faith because you won't even address my arguments. I already refuted the idea that this is a specific rule overriding a general rule. It's kinda been the core of my argument. I just haven't been using those terms because I thought it was relatively self-explanatory. None of your responses really address what I've been saying.
1. This specific rule does not grant the beast an additional action. No where in the feature does it say that the beast can take an additional action on a turn when commanded so you must therefore follow the general rule of one action per turn. I made this argument in post 6 and post 15 and you ignored it both places. The only things that grant additional actions say they grant additional actions. Blackrazor, potion of speed, haste, and action surge are the only things I can find that grant additional actions. Blackrazor and potion of speed reference haste. Haste and action surge specifically say additional action. If you can find an example otherwise or an example of the phrase "you can also" allowing an addition action, please prove me wrong. Otherwise, you're conceding that the paradigm for granting additional actions on a turn is defined by haste and action surge.
2. Features only do what they say they do. The lines you keep citing only give you the ability to command the beast. The beast has to resolve your commands with its own action, movement, bonus action, and reaction. If it has already taken an action, it can't take another because there is no specific rule granting it the ability to take more than one action on a turn.
3.You intrinsically agree that you should follow the one action per turn by rejecting the beast's ability to dodge and take the action that it's commanded to. If commanding the beast gives it an additional action, why reject that in this situation? You tried to respond with a misreading of the feature where you believe it says that the beast can dodge or follow your commands. When I pointed out your misreading you deflected and didn't answer. Normally that response is considered a concession of the point.
Once again, it's ultimately up to a DM. A DM can homebrew things however they want to. Please prove me wrong though. I'd love for the beast master ranger to be able to ride into combat on a beast of the land, have the beast make 4 attacks, and have the ranger make 2 all while the beast is dodging and dashing. That just isn't how the feature works.