Basically do spells granted by feats count as being part of your spell list for class features that require spells from your spell list.
e.g. The interaction between Eldritch Knight's improved war magic and Shadow Touched
Level 18: Improved War Magic
When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace two of the attacks with a casting of one of your level 1 or level 2 Wizard spells that has a casting time of an action.
Shadow Magic. Choose one level 1 spell from the Illusion or Necromancy school of magic. You always have that spell and the Invisibility spell prepared. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either spell in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a Long Rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
Per Sage Advice (see here) it counts as a Wizard spell if it's on the Wizard list, or if some feature says it counts as one.
Invisibility is on the Wizard list, so it counts. The other spell you get from that feat might or might not count, depending on which one you choose.
I feel like the Sage Advice doesn't give enough clarity here. For instance, if I'm a multi-class Warlock/Eldritch Knight, and I take Invisibility as a Warlock spell, would that count as a Wizard spell? If I take one level of Wizard, and then nineteen levels of Sorcerer, can I cast all the Sorcerer spells that overlap with Sorcerer and Wizard as "Wizard" spells, using INT as my Spellcasting Ability Modifier?
My ruling as a person on this forum would be to ask your DM/decide what works for you and your players and do that. My strict interpretation would be that any spells not specifically identified as "Wizard" spells (e.g. spells granted by taking a Wizard class dip or picking up the Magic Initiate: Wizard feat) would not count as a Wizard spell. My "Rule of Cool" interpretation would be that IDGAF, and you can kinda just do what you want, as long as it's on the Wizard spell list or gained as part of a Wizard-adjacent feature.
Per Sage Advice (see here) it counts as a Wizard spell if it's on the Wizard list, or if some feature says it counts as one.
Invisibility is on the Wizard list, so it counts. The other spell you get from that feat might or might not count, depending on which one you choose.
I feel like the Sage Advice doesn't give enough clarity here. For instance, if I'm a multi-class Warlock/Eldritch Knight, and I take Invisibility as a Warlock spell, would that count as a Wizard spell? [...]
Yes, Invisibility belongs to Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard.
[...] If I take one level of Wizard, and then nineteen levels of Sorcerer, can I cast all the Sorcerer spells that overlap with Sorcerer and Wizard as "Wizard" spells, using INT as my Spellcasting Ability Modifier?
No, because according to the multiclassing rules:
Spells Prepared.You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips).
Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.
There is also an additional answer in the SAC about multiclassing that confirms how this works:
Okay, that's fair. I hear that, and I'm glad there's clarity there, because I'm sure someone would find a way to make a "nuke wizard" with that loophole. But that only serves to cast more confusion on the original question. The spells you get from the Shadow Touched feat are not prepared as part of preparing your Wizard spells as an Eldritch Knight. Does this mean, since there is no actual class they're prepared as, they're prepared as de facto Wizard spells? What, then, if you pick Inflict Wounds as your 1st-level spell? That isn't on the Wizard spell list, so it's either a direct contradiction of the original Sage Advice, or it's not prepared as a Wizard spell. As such, Invisibility could also not be prepared as a Wizard spell, and thus not be something you could apply your Eldritch Knight. Or it could.
I honestly think the intention of the Eldritch Knight ability is to be limited to exclusively spells you learn from either the Eldritch Knight class, the Wizard class, or any other feat or ability that identifies spells as at least specifically originating from the Wizard spell list, such as Magic Initiate. In the instance of Shadow Touched, I'd say the specific intention is that the spells are inherent or stand-alone, like lineage spells (excluding, I suppose the High Elf's Cantrip), and would not be subject to the ability, regardless of whether they're in the Wizard spell list or not. That said, again, it's such a nothingburger rule that, if it was creating an iota of conflict at my table, I'd just give it to them, because the game's supposed to be fun.
Okay, that's fair. I hear that, and I'm glad there's clarity there, because I'm sure someone would find a way to make a "nuke wizard" with that loophole. But that only serves to cast more confusion on the original question. The spells you get from the Shadow Touched feat are not prepared as part of preparing your Wizard spells as an Eldritch Knight. Does this mean, since there is no actual class they're prepared as, they're prepared as de facto Wizard spells? What, then, if you pick Inflict Wounds as your 1st-level spell? That isn't on the Wizard spell list, so it's either a direct contradiction of the original Sage Advice, or it's not prepared as a Wizard spell. As such, Invisibility could also not be prepared as a Wizard spell, and thus not be something you could apply your Eldritch Knight. Or it could.
No. If you are a Wizard with Magic Initiate (Cleric) and pick Inflict Wounds, Inflict Wounds is not a Wizard spell.
If you instead took the Witherbloom Student (Strixhaven Curriculum of Chaos), it adds Inflict Wounds to all of your spell lists and so it would then count, if you prepared it as a Wizard spell.
The Sage Advice does technically mean that any spells received via species traits, feats, and other sources other through your class are not class spells. However, I think this interpretation introduces some problems. Magic Initiate, Fey-touched, Shadow-touched and the such never prepare spells as part of your class and so those will never be considered class spells.
Has that sage advice changed, it seems like the same one as the one from 2014. And if so, if it still applies who knows. Some of the things if it is as written seem off as for example a warlocks pact of the tome specifies they are class spells. But armor of shadows does not, so now you can't use your focus? Some how I do not think that is the intended design, so im thinking that sage advice needs updating. this did not kick in for 2014 as the invocations like this were without material components.
That being said i do not think it will apply to the magic initiate origin feats, though I think it should. mainly due to the focus part, its just an annoying hoop that diminishes fun imo.
To me, Eldritch Invocations are considered Warlock spells, but let's assume they are not, then the SAC is saying you couldn't use your spellcasting focus for Armor of Shadows (Mage Armor), Ascendant Step (Levitate), and many other spells with M components.
IMO, the SAC is trying to address cases where you can cast known spells but don't prepare them, like the debatable Eldritch Invocations, the one Ins0mniac_cat asked about, or for example, if your Wood Elf Wizard can use their spellcasting focus for Longstrider granted by their trait (considering you didn't know that spell before)
To me, Eldritch Invocations are considered Warlock spells, but let's assume they are not, then the SAC is saying you couldn't use your spellcasting focus for Armor of Shadows (Mage Armor), Ascendant Step (Levitate), and many other spells with M components.
Yeah, I guess Pact Magic only makes spells Warlock spells if they are prepared and the Eldritch Invocations are Warlock features but they don't give you prepared spells. So, RAW they are not Warlock spells, but I agree with on RAI. I think they just didn't want to give access to upcasting. I think Pact Magic should be revised as saying that spells granted by Warlock features are considered Warlock spells.
That doesn't help OP though. I think with the Sage Advice, Invisibility from the Shadow-touched feat is not a Wizard spell, but without it, it is. I don't always agree with the SAC/Jeremy Crawford and this is one of those times.
[...] That doesn't help OP though. I think with the Sage Advice, Invisibility from the Shadow-touched feat is not a Wizard spell, but without it, it is. [...]
Isn't it the opposite? With the SAC, that spell is a Wizard spell, and also a Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock one (green text added by me):
A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a SorcererWizard spell is a spell on the SorcererWizard spell list, and if an SorcererEldritch Knight knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t SorcererWizard spells unless a feature says otherwise.
I want to be honest here. Without the SAC, my interpretation was always the one you gave in your previous explanation or for example here:
The spells you get from the Shadow Touched feat are not prepared as part of preparing your Wizard spells as an Eldritch Knight. Does this mean, since there is no actual class they're prepared as, they're prepared as de facto Wizard spells? What, then, if you pick Inflict Wounds as your 1st-level spell? That isn't on the Wizard spell list, so it's either a direct contradiction of the original Sage Advice, or it's not prepared as a Wizard spell. As such, Invisibility could also not be prepared as a Wizard spell, and thus not be something you could apply your Eldritch Knight. Or it could.
I honestly think the intention of the Eldritch Knight ability is to be limited to exclusively spells you learn from either the Eldritch Knight class, the Wizard class, or any other feat or ability that identifies spells as at least specifically originating from the Wizard spell list, such as Magic Initiate. In the instance of Shadow Touched, I'd say the specific intention is that the spells are inherent or stand-alone, like lineage spells (excluding, I suppose the High Elf's Cantrip), and would not be subject to the ability, regardless of whether they're in the Wizard spell list or not. That said, again, it's such a nothingburger rule that, if it was creating an iota of conflict at my table, I'd just give it to them, because the game's supposed to be fun.
The interesting things about EK is that the subclass Spellcasting feature doesn't have the same "counts as a Wizard spell" language that a Wizard's spellcasting feature does
If another Wizard feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Wizard spells for you.
Without that language, you've got two ways to interpret which spells count for War Magic/Improved War Magic
1. When those features say "your Wizard cantrips/spells", they mean only the spells gained through your Spellcasting feature (i.e., the emphasis is on "your") 2. Any spell you gain from any source qualifies for War Magic/Improved War Magic, so long as it's on the Wizard spell list
The issues I have with the first interpretation are that if they'd wanted to specify only the spells on your prepared spell list, they could have just said that; and I'm not sure there's any other examples in the rules of "your" being used that restrictively
The second interpretation makes more sense to me -- so to bring it back around, yes, I would say you could use Improved War Magic to cast invisibility gained through the Shadow Touched feat
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IMO, the subclass doesn't have that wording because it's true its features don't grant more spells, unlike Paladins, Rangers, and the classic spellcasting classes. So that sentence is not really needed.
The Arcane Trickster is a case similar to the Eldritch Knight.
Whether I like it or not, the SAC provides a ruling for situations where you gain spells through traits or feats.
[...] That doesn't help OP though. I think with the Sage Advice, Invisibility from the Shadow-touched feat is not a Wizard spell, but without it, it is. [...]
Isn't it the opposite? With the SAC, that spell is a Wizard spell, and also a Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock one (green text added by me):
A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a SorcererWizard spell is a spell on the SorcererWizard spell list, and if an SorcererEldritch Knight knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t SorcererWizard spells unless a feature says otherwise.
I want to be honest here. Without the SAC, my interpretation was always the one you gave in your previous explanation or for example here:
By extension, only the spells prepared as a Wizard or Eldritch Knight count as Wizard or Eldritch Knight features. Interestingly, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, and Wizard will prepare Wizard spells so there is a unique synergy there.
So where does that leave spells from Species or Feats? There is no language that these are added your spell list or are prepared as one class or another. If the multiclassing rule applies to these spells, these are not associated with any class. A generous interpretation would be that they you must choose a class for them to be "prepared as", but that would be ignoring the context of the rule.
I also feel like Sage Advice also contradicts itself with:
A class’s spell list specifies the spells that belong to the class. For example, a Sorcerer spell is a spell on the Sorcerer spell list, and if a Sorcerer knows spells that aren’t on that list, those spells aren’t Sorcerer spells unless a feature says otherwise.
I feel like this says spells on both the Wizard and Sorcerer list are both Wizard and Sorcerer spells for multiclass Wizards/Sorcerers. Make up your mind, Sage.
I left the next question, still unanswered, in this thread (question updated below), and I guess it's unanswered because "there are two sages" / it's unclear.
So now we've got more work to do: interpret the PHB rules, talk it over in the forum, and interpret two pieces of advice in the SAC :(
Let's say you have Magic Initiate (Wizard) and you choose Ray of Sickness and you cast the spell without a spell slot:
- Only as a Sorcerer: you roll with advantage (General Spellcasting answer from the SAC) - Sorcerer/Wizard: you don't roll with advantage (Multiclassing answer from the SAC)
Unless my interpretation of the Sorcerer/Wizard case is not right, and if you rule that the spell was prepared as a Sorcerer, then Innate Sorcery would apply too. But I don't see how you can prepare it as Sorcerer if you cast it without a spell slot.
Maybe the player needs to declare which class is casting the spell, as I think you're suggesting?
Maybe the multiclassing answer only applies when you use your own slots?
Or because you chose Wizard, it's considered prepared as Wizard when you don't use a slot? But again, for traits this isn't possible to determine (or not always)
IMO, the subclass doesn't have that wording because it's true its features don't grant more spells, unlike Paladins, Rangers, and the classic spellcasting classes. So that sentence is not really needed.
The Arcane Trickster is a case similar to the Eldritch Knight.
Whether I like it or not, the SAC provides a ruling for situations where you gain spells through traits or feats.
EDIT: for clarity.
The base spellcasting feature for Arcane Tricksters specifies you're casting Int-based Wizard spells. However, the only other feature that deals with general spellcasting is Magical Ambush, which applies to any spell you cast from any source.
1. A "Wizard Spell" refers to a spell that is on the Wizard spell list.
2. A term such as "your Wizard spell" generally refers to a Wizard spell that you have "gained" (See Spells --> Gaining Spells). In general, this means that you have the spell prepared in your mind (somehow) or that you have access to being able to cast the spell from a magic item.
3. The multiclass rule that is often quoted is a rule about how to use your Spellcasting class features if you have more than one of them. If the scenario in question does not involve using a Spellcasting class feature, then this rule does not apply.
So, for the specific interaction that was asked about in the OP, the correct answer was given on Post #2 -- the spell gained from the Shadow-Touched feat is a Wizard spell if it appears on the Wizard spell list.
For instance, if I'm a multi-class Warlock/Eldritch Knight, and I take Invisibility as a Warlock spell, would that count as a Wizard spell? If I take one level of Wizard, and then nineteen levels of Sorcerer, can I cast all the Sorcerer spells that overlap with Sorcerer and Wizard as "Wizard" spells, using INT as my Spellcasting Ability Modifier?
The way that this works is that if you used your Warlock Pact Magic class feature to prepare the Invisibility spell into your mind then this DOES count as a Wizard spell. However, you would not be able to cast this spell with your Wizard (or Eldritch Knight) Spellcasting class feature since it does not appear on your Wizard (or Eldritch Knight) Prepared List of Level 1+ Spells.
Likewise, for the Wizard 1 / Sorcerer 19 character, when you cast a high-level spell that appears on both lists, that spell IS a Wizard spell. However, you would not be able to cast such a spell with your Wizard Spellcasting class feature since you would not have been able to use that feature to add that spell onto your Wizard Prepared List of Level 1+ Spells.
The spells you get from the Shadow Touched feat are not prepared as part of preparing your Wizard spells as an Eldritch Knight. Does this mean, since there is no actual class they're prepared as, they're prepared as de facto Wizard spells? What, then, if you pick Inflict Wounds as your 1st-level spell? That isn't on the Wizard spell list, so it's either a direct contradiction of the original Sage Advice, or it's not prepared as a Wizard spell. As such, Invisibility could also not be prepared as a Wizard spell, and thus not be something you could apply your Eldritch Knight. Or it could.
It's correct that the spell gained from the Shadow-Touched feat is not prepared by using your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature. Therefore, the multiclass rule which dictates how to use your Spellcasting class features when you have more than one of them does not apply since that feature is not being used. But the spell is still a Wizard spell if it appears on the Wizard Spell List, and likewise for other <class> Spell Lists.
The general rule of thumb is that a feat does what it says. The feat says that this spell is "always prepared". The feat also provides its own method for casting that spell. You do not use your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature to prepare the spell or to cast the spell -- instead, you use the rules that are provided by the feat to perform those tasks. That is a separate concept from whether or not the spell is a Wizard spell. You don't really prepare a spell "as" a Wizard spell per se. You either use your Spellcasting class feature to prepare the Wizard spell, or you use some other rule to prepare the Wizard spell. Likewise with the various methods for casting the Wizard spell.
If you picked Inflict Wounds with your feat, then you would use the rules that are given by that feat to prepare and cast that spell. But since that spell is not a Wizard spell then it would not be eligible for the interaction with the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic class feature.
Note that in the case of Invisibility, that spell IS a Wizard spell. So, even if you never used your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature to prepare the Invisibility spell but instead you are relying on the rules given by the feat to prepare and cast that spell (without using a spell slot, for example), the casting of the Invisibility spell in this manner IS eligible for the interaction with the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic class feature because this Invisibility spell IS one of "your Wizard Spells" -- meaning, it is a Wizard spell that is prepared in your mind (somehow).
If you instead took the Witherbloom Student (Strixhaven Curriculum of Chaos), it adds Inflict Wounds to all of your spell lists and so it would then count, if you prepared it as a Wizard spell.
No, this is incorrect. It does not matter how you prepare a spell. To be a Wizard spell it only matters that it exists on (or is explicitly added to) the Wizard Spell List.
Let's say you have Magic Initiate (Wizard) and you choose Ray of Sickness and you cast the spell without a spell slot:
- Only as a Sorcerer: you roll with advantage (General Spellcasting answer from the SAC) - Sorcerer/Wizard: you don't roll with advantage (Multiclassing answer from the SAC)
Unless my interpretation of the Sorcerer/Wizard case is not right, and if you rule that the spell was prepared as a Sorcerer, then Innate Sorcery would apply too. But I don't see how you can prepare it as Sorcerer if you cast it without a spell slot.
Maybe the player needs to declare which class is casting the spell, as I think you're suggesting?
Maybe the multiclassing answer only applies when you use your own slots?
Or because you chose Wizard, it's considered prepared as Wizard when you don't use a slot? But again, for traits this isn't possible to determine (or not always)
I'm assuming that the two scenarios here are that in the first scenario your character is only a Sorcerer (single classed) and in the second scenario your character is a multi-classed Sorcerer/Wizard:
As with my previous post, the important concept to keep in mind here is that if you are using the rules from your feat to prepare and cast a spell then you are not using your Spellcasting class features and therefore the multiclass rule which dictates how to use your Spellcasting class features when you have more than one of them do not apply.
Scenario 1: Sorcerer: Ray of Sickness is "always prepared" by the Magic Initiate feat. The spell is cast without using a spell slot by using the rules provided by the feat. The multiclass rules do not apply. Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell and is also a Wizard spell.
You have a Sorcerer class feature which states that "You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast" (assuming this resource has not yet been fully spent).
Therefore, roll with advantage.
Scenario 2: Sorcerer/Wizard: Ray of Sickness is "always prepared" by the Magic Initiate feat. The spell is cast without using a spell slot by using the rules provided by the feat. The multiclass rules do not apply (since no Spellcasting class feature is being used to prepare and cast the spell). Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell and is also a Wizard spell.
You have a Sorcerer class feature which states that "You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast (assuming this resource has not yet been fully spent).
Therefore, roll with advantage.
Note that the Innate Sorcery class feature does not care how the spell was prepared. It only cares that the spell being cast is a Sorcerer spell.
You do not declare which class is casting the spell -- you are not using any of your Spellcasting class features to prepare or cast the spell, you are using the rules provided by the feat to perform these tasks.
Whether or not the multiclassing rules apply has nothing to do with whether or not your spell slots are used. That rule only applies when you are using one of your Spellcasting class features. You can use the rules of the feat (instead of using your Spellcasting class feature) to cast the spell with your spell slots if desired (because the feat says that you can and feats do what they say).
Choosing Magic Initiate (Wizard) does not mean that the chosen spell is prepared "as" a Wizard. It is prepared by the rules for the feat, not by the Wizard's Spellcasting class feature.
So I have a follow up question just to understand you well. For that Sorcerer/Wizard, and for whatever reason, you also have Ray of Sickness prepared as a Wizard, apart from the one you have thanks to the Magic Initiate (Wizard) feat.
You cast that spell as a Wizard, using your Wizard slots. If you activate Level 1: Innate Sorcery, did you roll with Advantage on the attack roll?
I guess in the scenario where you have the same spell prepared in two different ways then you would generally have to declare which feature you are using to cast the spell -- it could impact which Spellcasting Ability (INT vs CHA) is applied as well as how various other features interact and so on.
However, in this scenario it should not matter which feature you are using to cast your spell -- Innate Sorcery only cares about which Spell Lists the spell exists on. Since Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell this class feature allows you to roll with advantage. For example, I believe that Innate Sorcery could even be used when a spell on the Sorcerer Spell List is being cast from a magic item since in 2024 "you" are the one that is casting such spells.
I believeInnate Sorceryonly cares if it's a Sorcerer spell meaning a spell on the Sorcerer spell list or one that otherwise count as Sorcerer spells for you.
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Basically do spells granted by feats count as being part of your spell list for class features that require spells from your spell list.
e.g. The interaction between Eldritch Knight's improved war magic and Shadow Touched
Level 18: Improved War Magic
When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace two of the attacks with a casting of one of your level 1 or level 2 Wizard spells that has a casting time of an action.
Shadow Magic. Choose one level 1 spell from the Illusion or Necromancy school of magic. You always have that spell and the Invisibility spell prepared. You can cast each of these spells without expending a spell slot. Once you cast either spell in this way, you can’t cast that spell in this way again until you finish a Long Rest. You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level. The spells’ spellcasting ability is the ability increased by this feat.
Would you rule that it counts or no?
Per Sage Advice (see here) it counts as a Wizard spell if it's on the Wizard list, or if some feature says it counts as one.
Invisibility is on the Wizard list, so it counts. The other spell you get from that feat might or might not count, depending on which one you choose.
pronouns: he/she/they
I feel like the Sage Advice doesn't give enough clarity here. For instance, if I'm a multi-class Warlock/Eldritch Knight, and I take Invisibility as a Warlock spell, would that count as a Wizard spell? If I take one level of Wizard, and then nineteen levels of Sorcerer, can I cast all the Sorcerer spells that overlap with Sorcerer and Wizard as "Wizard" spells, using INT as my Spellcasting Ability Modifier?
My ruling as a person on this forum would be to ask your DM/decide what works for you and your players and do that. My strict interpretation would be that any spells not specifically identified as "Wizard" spells (e.g. spells granted by taking a Wizard class dip or picking up the Magic Initiate: Wizard feat) would not count as a Wizard spell. My "Rule of Cool" interpretation would be that IDGAF, and you can kinda just do what you want, as long as it's on the Wizard spell list or gained as part of a Wizard-adjacent feature.
Yes, Invisibility belongs to Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock and Wizard.
But regarding to your second question:
No, because according to the multiclassing rules:
There is also an additional answer in the SAC about multiclassing that confirms how this works:
Okay, that's fair. I hear that, and I'm glad there's clarity there, because I'm sure someone would find a way to make a "nuke wizard" with that loophole. But that only serves to cast more confusion on the original question. The spells you get from the Shadow Touched feat are not prepared as part of preparing your Wizard spells as an Eldritch Knight. Does this mean, since there is no actual class they're prepared as, they're prepared as de facto Wizard spells? What, then, if you pick Inflict Wounds as your 1st-level spell? That isn't on the Wizard spell list, so it's either a direct contradiction of the original Sage Advice, or it's not prepared as a Wizard spell. As such, Invisibility could also not be prepared as a Wizard spell, and thus not be something you could apply your Eldritch Knight. Or it could.
I honestly think the intention of the Eldritch Knight ability is to be limited to exclusively spells you learn from either the Eldritch Knight class, the Wizard class, or any other feat or ability that identifies spells as at least specifically originating from the Wizard spell list, such as Magic Initiate. In the instance of Shadow Touched, I'd say the specific intention is that the spells are inherent or stand-alone, like lineage spells (excluding, I suppose the High Elf's Cantrip), and would not be subject to the ability, regardless of whether they're in the Wizard spell list or not. That said, again, it's such a nothingburger rule that, if it was creating an iota of conflict at my table, I'd just give it to them, because the game's supposed to be fun.
No. If you are a Wizard with Magic Initiate (Cleric) and pick Inflict Wounds, Inflict Wounds is not a Wizard spell.
If you instead took the Witherbloom Student (Strixhaven Curriculum of Chaos), it adds Inflict Wounds to all of your spell lists and so it would then count, if you prepared it as a Wizard spell.
The Sage Advice does technically mean that any spells received via species traits, feats, and other sources other through your class are not class spells. However, I think this interpretation introduces some problems. Magic Initiate, Fey-touched, Shadow-touched and the such never prepare spells as part of your class and so those will never be considered class spells.
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My houserulings.
Has that sage advice changed, it seems like the same one as the one from 2014. And if so, if it still applies who knows. Some of the things if it is as written seem off as for example a warlocks pact of the tome specifies they are class spells. But armor of shadows does not, so now you can't use your focus? Some how I do not think that is the intended design, so im thinking that sage advice needs updating. this did not kick in for 2014 as the invocations like this were without material components.
That being said i do not think it will apply to the magic initiate origin feats, though I think it should. mainly due to the focus part, its just an annoying hoop that diminishes fun imo.
You know, there was a huge debate about whether Pact Magic also makes your Eldritch Invocations count as Warlock spells (What exactly is considered a Warlock Spell, especially when multiclassing), but the answers are pre-2024 SAC.
To me, Eldritch Invocations are considered Warlock spells, but let's assume they are not, then the SAC is saying you couldn't use your spellcasting focus for Armor of Shadows (Mage Armor), Ascendant Step (Levitate), and many other spells with M components.
IMO, the SAC is trying to address cases where you can cast known spells but don't prepare them, like the debatable Eldritch Invocations, the one Ins0mniac_cat asked about, or for example, if your Wood Elf Wizard can use their spellcasting focus for Longstrider granted by their trait (considering you didn't know that spell before)
Yeah, I guess Pact Magic only makes spells Warlock spells if they are prepared and the Eldritch Invocations are Warlock features but they don't give you prepared spells. So, RAW they are not Warlock spells, but I agree with on RAI. I think they just didn't want to give access to upcasting. I think Pact Magic should be revised as saying that spells granted by Warlock features are considered Warlock spells.
That doesn't help OP though. I think with the Sage Advice, Invisibility from the Shadow-touched feat is not a Wizard spell, but without it, it is. I don't always agree with the SAC/Jeremy Crawford and this is one of those times.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Isn't it the opposite? With the SAC, that spell is a Wizard spell, and also a Bard, Sorcerer, and Warlock one (green text added by me):
I want to be honest here. Without the SAC, my interpretation was always the one you gave in your previous explanation or for example here:
- Class spell lists
- Fey-Touched Spell Save DC
The interesting things about EK is that the subclass Spellcasting feature doesn't have the same "counts as a Wizard spell" language that a Wizard's spellcasting feature does
Without that language, you've got two ways to interpret which spells count for War Magic/Improved War Magic
1. When those features say "your Wizard cantrips/spells", they mean only the spells gained through your Spellcasting feature (i.e., the emphasis is on "your")
2. Any spell you gain from any source qualifies for War Magic/Improved War Magic, so long as it's on the Wizard spell list
The issues I have with the first interpretation are that if they'd wanted to specify only the spells on your prepared spell list, they could have just said that; and I'm not sure there's any other examples in the rules of "your" being used that restrictively
The second interpretation makes more sense to me -- so to bring it back around, yes, I would say you could use Improved War Magic to cast invisibility gained through the Shadow Touched feat
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IMO, the subclass doesn't have that wording because it's true its features don't grant more spells, unlike Paladins, Rangers, and the classic spellcasting classes. So that sentence is not really needed.
The Arcane Trickster is a case similar to the Eldritch Knight.
Whether I like it or not, the SAC provides a ruling for situations where you gain spells through traits or feats.
EDIT: for clarity.
You could make the argument that this only applies to multiclass characters, but.
By extension, only the spells prepared as a Wizard or Eldritch Knight count as Wizard or Eldritch Knight features. Interestingly, Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight, and Wizard will prepare Wizard spells so there is a unique synergy there.
So where does that leave spells from Species or Feats? There is no language that these are added your spell list or are prepared as one class or another. If the multiclassing rule applies to these spells, these are not associated with any class. A generous interpretation would be that they you must choose a class for them to be "prepared as", but that would be ignoring the context of the rule.
I also feel like Sage Advice also contradicts itself with:
I feel like this says spells on both the Wizard and Sorcerer list are both Wizard and Sorcerer spells for multiclass Wizards/Sorcerers. Make up your mind, Sage.
"Within the rules, there are two sages..."
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My houserulings.
Yeah. It's complicated.
I left the next question, still unanswered, in this thread (question updated below), and I guess it's unanswered because "there are two sages" / it's unclear.
So now we've got more work to do: interpret the PHB rules, talk it over in the forum, and interpret two pieces of advice in the SAC :(
Let's say you have Magic Initiate (Wizard) and you choose Ray of Sickness and you cast the spell without a spell slot:
- Only as a Sorcerer: you roll with advantage (General Spellcasting answer from the SAC)
- Sorcerer/Wizard: you don't roll with advantage (Multiclassing answer from the SAC)
Unless my interpretation of the Sorcerer/Wizard case is not right, and if you rule that the spell was prepared as a Sorcerer, then Innate Sorcery would apply too. But I don't see how you can prepare it as Sorcerer if you cast it without a spell slot.
Maybe the player needs to declare which class is casting the spell, as I think you're suggesting?
Maybe the multiclassing answer only applies when you use your own slots?
Or because you chose Wizard, it's considered prepared as Wizard when you don't use a slot? But again, for traits this isn't possible to determine (or not always)
The base spellcasting feature for Arcane Tricksters specifies you're casting Int-based Wizard spells. However, the only other feature that deals with general spellcasting is Magical Ambush, which applies to any spell you cast from any source.
Some things to remember about this topic:
1. A "Wizard Spell" refers to a spell that is on the Wizard spell list.
2. A term such as "your Wizard spell" generally refers to a Wizard spell that you have "gained" (See Spells --> Gaining Spells). In general, this means that you have the spell prepared in your mind (somehow) or that you have access to being able to cast the spell from a magic item.
3. The multiclass rule that is often quoted is a rule about how to use your Spellcasting class features if you have more than one of them. If the scenario in question does not involve using a Spellcasting class feature, then this rule does not apply.
So, for the specific interaction that was asked about in the OP, the correct answer was given on Post #2 -- the spell gained from the Shadow-Touched feat is a Wizard spell if it appears on the Wizard spell list.
The way that this works is that if you used your Warlock Pact Magic class feature to prepare the Invisibility spell into your mind then this DOES count as a Wizard spell. However, you would not be able to cast this spell with your Wizard (or Eldritch Knight) Spellcasting class feature since it does not appear on your Wizard (or Eldritch Knight) Prepared List of Level 1+ Spells.
Likewise, for the Wizard 1 / Sorcerer 19 character, when you cast a high-level spell that appears on both lists, that spell IS a Wizard spell. However, you would not be able to cast such a spell with your Wizard Spellcasting class feature since you would not have been able to use that feature to add that spell onto your Wizard Prepared List of Level 1+ Spells.
It's correct that the spell gained from the Shadow-Touched feat is not prepared by using your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature. Therefore, the multiclass rule which dictates how to use your Spellcasting class features when you have more than one of them does not apply since that feature is not being used. But the spell is still a Wizard spell if it appears on the Wizard Spell List, and likewise for other <class> Spell Lists.
The general rule of thumb is that a feat does what it says. The feat says that this spell is "always prepared". The feat also provides its own method for casting that spell. You do not use your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature to prepare the spell or to cast the spell -- instead, you use the rules that are provided by the feat to perform those tasks. That is a separate concept from whether or not the spell is a Wizard spell. You don't really prepare a spell "as" a Wizard spell per se. You either use your Spellcasting class feature to prepare the Wizard spell, or you use some other rule to prepare the Wizard spell. Likewise with the various methods for casting the Wizard spell.
If you picked Inflict Wounds with your feat, then you would use the rules that are given by that feat to prepare and cast that spell. But since that spell is not a Wizard spell then it would not be eligible for the interaction with the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic class feature.
Note that in the case of Invisibility, that spell IS a Wizard spell. So, even if you never used your Eldritch Knight Spellcasting class feature to prepare the Invisibility spell but instead you are relying on the rules given by the feat to prepare and cast that spell (without using a spell slot, for example), the casting of the Invisibility spell in this manner IS eligible for the interaction with the Eldritch Knight's Improved War Magic class feature because this Invisibility spell IS one of "your Wizard Spells" -- meaning, it is a Wizard spell that is prepared in your mind (somehow).
No, this is incorrect. It does not matter how you prepare a spell. To be a Wizard spell it only matters that it exists on (or is explicitly added to) the Wizard Spell List.
I'm assuming that the two scenarios here are that in the first scenario your character is only a Sorcerer (single classed) and in the second scenario your character is a multi-classed Sorcerer/Wizard:
As with my previous post, the important concept to keep in mind here is that if you are using the rules from your feat to prepare and cast a spell then you are not using your Spellcasting class features and therefore the multiclass rule which dictates how to use your Spellcasting class features when you have more than one of them do not apply.
Scenario 1: Sorcerer: Ray of Sickness is "always prepared" by the Magic Initiate feat. The spell is cast without using a spell slot by using the rules provided by the feat. The multiclass rules do not apply. Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell and is also a Wizard spell.
You have a Sorcerer class feature which states that "You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast" (assuming this resource has not yet been fully spent).
Therefore, roll with advantage.
Scenario 2: Sorcerer/Wizard: Ray of Sickness is "always prepared" by the Magic Initiate feat. The spell is cast without using a spell slot by using the rules provided by the feat. The multiclass rules do not apply (since no Spellcasting class feature is being used to prepare and cast the spell). Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell and is also a Wizard spell.
You have a Sorcerer class feature which states that "You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast (assuming this resource has not yet been fully spent).
Therefore, roll with advantage.
Note that the Innate Sorcery class feature does not care how the spell was prepared. It only cares that the spell being cast is a Sorcerer spell.
You do not declare which class is casting the spell -- you are not using any of your Spellcasting class features to prepare or cast the spell, you are using the rules provided by the feat to perform these tasks.
Whether or not the multiclassing rules apply has nothing to do with whether or not your spell slots are used. That rule only applies when you are using one of your Spellcasting class features. You can use the rules of the feat (instead of using your Spellcasting class feature) to cast the spell with your spell slots if desired (because the feat says that you can and feats do what they say).
Choosing Magic Initiate (Wizard) does not mean that the chosen spell is prepared "as" a Wizard. It is prepared by the rules for the feat, not by the Wizard's Spellcasting class feature.
That makes sense, up2ng.
So I have a follow up question just to understand you well. For that Sorcerer/Wizard, and for whatever reason, you also have Ray of Sickness prepared as a Wizard, apart from the one you have thanks to the Magic Initiate (Wizard) feat.
You cast that spell as a Wizard, using your Wizard slots. If you activate Level 1: Innate Sorcery, did you roll with Advantage on the attack roll?
EDIT: for clarity.
I guess in the scenario where you have the same spell prepared in two different ways then you would generally have to declare which feature you are using to cast the spell -- it could impact which Spellcasting Ability (INT vs CHA) is applied as well as how various other features interact and so on.
However, in this scenario it should not matter which feature you are using to cast your spell -- Innate Sorcery only cares about which Spell Lists the spell exists on. Since Ray of Sickness is a Sorcerer spell this class feature allows you to roll with advantage. For example, I believe that Innate Sorcery could even be used when a spell on the Sorcerer Spell List is being cast from a magic item since in 2024 "you" are the one that is casting such spells.
I believe Innate Sorcery only cares if it's a Sorcerer spell meaning a spell on the Sorcerer spell list or one that otherwise count as Sorcerer spells for you.