What I want to work towards is being able to equip a shield and hand crossbow at the same time, allowing for multiple shots of the hand crossbow each turn, then adding divine favor and divine strike for additional damage processing.
Will this work, or not?
As Devin said, the short answer is no. But if you can find a friendly Artificer that is prepared to infuse your hand crossbow with a Repeating Shot infusion or if you could get your hands on an Dragon Wing Bow then it would work because those options creates their own ammunition.
I'm currently playing a war cleric variant human in rime of the frostmaiden, with the light crossbow as my starting weapon.
What I want to work towards is being able to equip a shield and hand crossbow at the same time, allowing for multiple shots of the hand crossbow each turn, then adding divine favor and divine strike for additional damage processing.
Will this work, or not?
As mentioned - the short answer is no. :) ... the other answers left off the reason.
A hand crossbow has the ammunition property which requires the character to have a free hand to load the weapon whenever they fire it. This means that you can not use a hand crossbow with a shield because you don't have the free hand to load the ammunition.
Two levels of artificer (or a friendly artificer) allows the use of the repeating shot infusion on the hand crossbow which then creates its own ammunition automatically. This is probably the easiest solution except for specific magic items that might or might not be available in your campaign.
(However, some sticklers point out that the repeating shot infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property and the free hand requirement but I personally think that is an oversight since the description makes it pretty clear that the weapon loads ammunition itself so a free hand should not be required).
I'm currently playing a war cleric variant human in rime of the frostmaiden, with the light crossbow as my starting weapon.
What I want to work towards is being able to equip a shield and hand crossbow at the same time, allowing for multiple shots of the hand crossbow each turn, then adding divine favor and divine strike for additional damage processing.
Will this work, or not?
As mentioned - the short answer is no. :) ... the other answers left off the reason.
A hand crossbow has the ammunition property which requires the character to have a free hand to load the weapon whenever they fire it. This means that you can not use a hand crossbow with a shield because you don't have the free hand to load the ammunition.
Two levels of artificer (or a friendly artificer) allows the use of the repeating shot infusion on the hand crossbow which then creates its own ammunition automatically. This is probably the easiest solution except for specific magic items that might or might not be available in your campaign.
(However, some sticklers point out that the repeating shot infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property and the free hand requirement but I personally think that is an oversight since the description makes it pretty clear that the weapon loads ammunition itself so a free hand should not be required).
I didn't know about the infusion thing, haven't played an artificer yet... but I think that's gonna be my next character =P
Battlesmith artificer even gets a second attack and a robot pet, sounds great.
A hand crossbow has the ammunition property which requires the character to have a free hand to load the weapon whenever they fire it. This means that you can not use a hand crossbow with a shield because you don't have the free hand to load the ammunition.
After talking this over, I think all you should need is the Crossbow Expert feat and a pair of repeating shot infused hand crossbows. The ammunition and loading properties should be handled by the infusion itself. The infusion says it ignores the loading property, but it doesn't ignore the ammunition property--it deals with it as part of the infusion's description (If the weapon lacks ammunition, it produces its own). Normally, ammunition comes from the person firing it and must be loaded into the weapon that contains that property. Since the infusion description contradicts it, I think it becomes a specific rule.
I'm not 100% on this, and I'm not going to passionately defend it if others don't think that logic holds up, but I feel like that should address the issue.
A hand crossbow has the ammunition property which requires the character to have a free hand to load the weapon whenever they fire it. This means that you can not use a hand crossbow with a shield because you don't have the free hand to load the ammunition.
After talking this over, I think all you should need is the Crossbow Expert feat and a pair of repeating shot infused hand crossbows. The ammunition and loading properties should be handled by the infusion itself. The infusion says it ignores the loading property, but it doesn't ignore the ammunition property--it deals with it as part of the infusion's description (If the weapon lacks ammunition, it produces its own). Normally, ammunition comes from the person firing it and must be loaded into the weapon that contains that property. Since the infusion description contradicts it, I think it becomes a specific rule.
I'm not 100% on this, and I'm not going to passionately defend it if others don't think that logic holds up, but I feel like that should address the issue.
I agree with you and that is how I run it. The Repeating shot infusion provides the ammunition and loads the weapon for you.
Here is the specific text:
"This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it’s used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target."
The infusion specifically removes the Loading property - so you do not need Xbow Expert to fire it more than once during an action - you just need Xbow expert for the bonus action attack and firing with an enemy within 5'.
However, the infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property - all it says is that "the weapon produces its own". I think this was intended to produce the ammo already loaded into the weapon but it doesn't say that. Some folks think the ammo appears in your hand and you have to load it thus still requiring a free hand as specified by the Ammunition property.
P.S. The real advantage here is to play a Battlesmith Artificer with Xbow expert, a hand crossbow and a shield in their other hand all at the same time - giving a better AC along with good damage.
(However, some sticklers point out that the repeating shot infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property and the free hand requirement but I personally think that is an oversight since the description makes it pretty clear that the weapon loads ammunition itself so a free hand should not be required).
I think the infusion is badly phrased and doesn't actually explain what is happening. Then again, hand crossbow is badly phrased.
My particular issue with the feature is how it interacts with bows.
Does a repeating hand crossbow pull the string back, cock the trigger, create a bolt, and then leave the weapon ready to fire one handed? The majority answer on the web seems to be "yes." If so, then why doesn't it do the same to a bow, allowing you to fire a bow one-handed? If the infusion pulls back the string and magically places a piece of ammo then you don't need a second hand. Forget about using the hand crossbow - use a shield and a longbow. :-)
Does a repeating hand crossbow pull the string back, cock the trigger, create a bolt, and then leave the weapon ready to fire one handed? The majority answer on the web seems to be "yes." If so, then why doesn't it do the same to a bow, allowing you to fire a bow one-handed? If the infusion pulls back the string and magically places a piece of ammo then you don't need a second hand. Forget about using the hand crossbow - use a shield and a longbow. :-)
Because bows (and crossbows, except for the hand crossbow) have the two-handed property, irrespective of the loading.
Does a repeating hand crossbow pull the string back, cock the trigger, create a bolt, and then leave the weapon ready to fire one handed? The majority answer on the web seems to be "yes." If so, then why doesn't it do the same to a bow, allowing you to fire a bow one-handed? If the infusion pulls back the string and magically places a piece of ammo then you don't need a second hand. Forget about using the hand crossbow - use a shield and a longbow. :-)
Because bows (and crossbows, except for the hand crossbow) have the two-handed property, irrespective of the loading.
I know, but if the infusion is pulling back the string and creating and placing the ammunition in the weapon then doesn't that negate any requirement for two-hands?
If a table rules that the infusion allows a hand crossbow to be used one-handed (even though the infusion does not remove the ammunition property, which requires two hands) then I think it's fair to also rule that it allows a bow to be used one-handed.
Personally I don't like that ruling. If I allowed artificers at my table then the infusion would still require the archer to pull back the string and cock the crossbow, all it would do is magically create a piece of ammunition on the now-cocked crossbow (or now-drawn bow).
Does a repeating hand crossbow pull the string back, cock the trigger, create a bolt, and then leave the weapon ready to fire one handed? The majority answer on the web seems to be "yes." If so, then why doesn't it do the same to a bow, allowing you to fire a bow one-handed? If the infusion pulls back the string and magically places a piece of ammo then you don't need a second hand. Forget about using the hand crossbow - use a shield and a longbow. :-)
For what it's worth, I think the process you described is handled by a weapon's loading property. With that in mind, the repeating shot infusion could be applied to a short or long bow. It would ignore the loading property, meaning that potentially, it would pull its own string back and produce an arrow, and make itself ready to be fired. At this point, it would require two hands to fire, as per the two-handed property that SagaTympana points out. And while that does require a degree of us letting "magic" fill in the logical gaps, it's really not so different in gameplay terms from a two-handed sword, where a character can perform just about every part of the sword's manipulation one-handed, except for actually attacking with it.
1 thing to add about the free hand part: A loxodon twin hand crossbow wielder. They can use their trunk to load ammunition so you could shoot 2 crossbows a turn with crossbow expert, and since rogues usually lack extra attack this can be useful. Only one would benefit from sneak attack of course. But it would allow them to shoot twice a turn, and benefit from other feats such as Piercer or Sharpshooter. Said Loxodon could also use a shield and hand crossbow. Final option is take a few lvls of artificer for invocations and make a repeating +1 hand crossbow (requires attunement). It would remove all ammunition needs and the loading property.
1 thing to add about the free hand part: A loxodon twin hand crossbow wielder. They can use their trunk to load ammunition so you could shoot 2 crossbows a turn with crossbow expert, and since rogues usually lack extra attack this can be useful. Only one would benefit from sneak attack of course. But it would allow them to shoot twice a turn, and benefit from other feats such as Piercer or Sharpshooter. Said Loxodon could also use a shield and hand crossbow. Final option is take a few lvls of artificer for invocations and make a repeating +1 hand crossbow (requires attunement). It would remove all ammunition needs and the loading property.
Or that rogue could use only one hand crossbow and still get two attacks on their turn.
I have to say it is amusing that Crossbow, Hand have the Light property. The only purpose of the Light property is to enable Two-weapon Fighting, but the rules restrict this to only Melee Weapons.
If this restriction were removed then it would be possible to use Two-weapon Fighting as a Loxodon or Thri-kreen instead of needing Crossbow Expert to attack with your bonus action.
I have to say it is amusing that Crossbow, Hand have the Light property. The only purpose of the Light property is to enable Two-weapon Fighting, but the rules restrict this to only Melee Weapons.
If this restriction were removed then it would be possible to use Two-weapon Fighting as a Loxodon or Thri-kreen instead of needing Crossbow Expert to attack with your bonus action.
While a hand crossbow has no use for the Light property in Two-Weapon Fighting, it may still be to meet certain requirement for magic item, feat or feature such as Secondary Arms Trait.
PS A Loxodon's Trunk can't wield weapons despite its properties.
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The short answer is no. The long answer is more complicated, but still not--at least not in the way you are probably going to be satisfied with.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
As Devin said, the short answer is no. But if you can find a friendly Artificer that is prepared to infuse your hand crossbow with a Repeating Shot infusion or if you could get your hands on an Dragon Wing Bow then it would work because those options creates their own ammunition.
As mentioned - the short answer is no. :) ... the other answers left off the reason.
A hand crossbow has the ammunition property which requires the character to have a free hand to load the weapon whenever they fire it. This means that you can not use a hand crossbow with a shield because you don't have the free hand to load the ammunition.
Two levels of artificer (or a friendly artificer) allows the use of the repeating shot infusion on the hand crossbow which then creates its own ammunition automatically. This is probably the easiest solution except for specific magic items that might or might not be available in your campaign.
(However, some sticklers point out that the repeating shot infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property and the free hand requirement but I personally think that is an oversight since the description makes it pretty clear that the weapon loads ammunition itself so a free hand should not be required).
I didn't know about the infusion thing, haven't played an artificer yet... but I think that's gonna be my next character =P
Battlesmith artificer even gets a second attack and a robot pet, sounds great.
After talking this over, I think all you should need is the Crossbow Expert feat and a pair of repeating shot infused hand crossbows. The ammunition and loading properties should be handled by the infusion itself. The infusion says it ignores the loading property, but it doesn't ignore the ammunition property--it deals with it as part of the infusion's description (If the weapon lacks ammunition, it produces its own). Normally, ammunition comes from the person firing it and must be loaded into the weapon that contains that property. Since the infusion description contradicts it, I think it becomes a specific rule.
I'm not 100% on this, and I'm not going to passionately defend it if others don't think that logic holds up, but I feel like that should address the issue.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You'd need 2 people who can make infusions. And why bother with 2 at that point?
I have to admit, I was more focused on the "how" than the "why" on that one.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I agree with you and that is how I run it. The Repeating shot infusion provides the ammunition and loads the weapon for you.
Here is the specific text:
"This magic weapon grants a +1![]()
bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it’s used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target."
The infusion specifically removes the Loading property - so you do not need Xbow Expert to fire it more than once during an action - you just need Xbow expert for the bonus action attack and firing with an enemy within 5'.
However, the infusion doesn't explicitly remove the ammunition property - all it says is that "the weapon produces its own". I think this was intended to produce the ammo already loaded into the weapon but it doesn't say that. Some folks think the ammo appears in your hand and you have to load it thus still requiring a free hand as specified by the Ammunition property.
P.S. The real advantage here is to play a Battlesmith Artificer with Xbow expert, a hand crossbow and a shield in their other hand all at the same time - giving a better AC along with good damage.
Some folks are thinking too hard about this.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I think the infusion is badly phrased and doesn't actually explain what is happening. Then again, hand crossbow is badly phrased.
My particular issue with the feature is how it interacts with bows.
Does a repeating hand crossbow pull the string back, cock the trigger, create a bolt, and then leave the weapon ready to fire one handed? The majority answer on the web seems to be "yes." If so, then why doesn't it do the same to a bow, allowing you to fire a bow one-handed? If the infusion pulls back the string and magically places a piece of ammo then you don't need a second hand. Forget about using the hand crossbow - use a shield and a longbow. :-)
Because bows (and crossbows, except for the hand crossbow) have the two-handed property, irrespective of the loading.
I know, but if the infusion is pulling back the string and creating and placing the ammunition in the weapon then doesn't that negate any requirement for two-hands?
If a table rules that the infusion allows a hand crossbow to be used one-handed (even though the infusion does not remove the ammunition property, which requires two hands) then I think it's fair to also rule that it allows a bow to be used one-handed.
Personally I don't like that ruling. If I allowed artificers at my table then the infusion would still require the archer to pull back the string and cock the crossbow, all it would do is magically create a piece of ammunition on the now-cocked crossbow (or now-drawn bow).
For what it's worth, I think the process you described is handled by a weapon's loading property. With that in mind, the repeating shot infusion could be applied to a short or long bow. It would ignore the loading property, meaning that potentially, it would pull its own string back and produce an arrow, and make itself ready to be fired. At this point, it would require two hands to fire, as per the two-handed property that SagaTympana points out. And while that does require a degree of us letting "magic" fill in the logical gaps, it's really not so different in gameplay terms from a two-handed sword, where a character can perform just about every part of the sword's manipulation one-handed, except for actually attacking with it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
1 thing to add about the free hand part: A loxodon twin hand crossbow wielder. They can use their trunk to load ammunition so you could shoot 2 crossbows a turn with crossbow expert, and since rogues usually lack extra attack this can be useful. Only one would benefit from sneak attack of course. But it would allow them to shoot twice a turn, and benefit from other feats such as Piercer or Sharpshooter. Said Loxodon could also use a shield and hand crossbow. Final option is take a few lvls of artificer for invocations and make a repeating +1 hand crossbow (requires attunement). It would remove all ammunition needs and the loading property.
Or that rogue could use only one hand crossbow and still get two attacks on their turn.
Or you could go Thri-kreen and wield a hand crossbow, a shield, a melee weapon like a rapier, and still have a hand free and shoot twice that turn.
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I have to say it is amusing that Crossbow, Hand have the Light property. The only purpose of the Light property is to enable Two-weapon Fighting, but the rules restrict this to only Melee Weapons.
If this restriction were removed then it would be possible to use Two-weapon Fighting as a Loxodon or Thri-kreen instead of needing Crossbow Expert to attack with your bonus action.
While a hand crossbow has no use for the Light property in Two-Weapon Fighting, it may still be to meet certain requirement for magic item, feat or feature such as Secondary Arms Trait.
PS A Loxodon's Trunk can't wield weapons despite its properties.