So, I have summoned a bat familiar. I really expected to be able to "see" through its senses like you would if it was an owl, but my DM has ruled that I can't get a proper picture of what the bat sees as it's using echolocation, so all I experience is a sense of shapes. He's said that if it was an owl, I'd be able to see normally through its eyes.
Thus:-
Bat: "you sense a large four legged creature ahead".
Owl: "you see a brown bear ahead".
Clearly the owl option is superior, but the bat is far more in keeping with my PC's style so I'd prefer a bat. Are there any rules to back up the fact that I might be able to get more of a proper view of what my bat is "seeing"?
When answering please ignore all the other differences between bat and owl - I'm aware of them and their relative benefits.
You should discuss this with your DM (calmly), but, generally, there is nothing in the rules that suggests the bat cannot recognize a bear if it has seen one before (the color is another matter), and a spellcaster doesn't need any additional "translation" to perceive what his familiar perceives (the wonders of magic). As Jeremy Crawford usually says, if that was true, the trait would say so.
Only two traits are relevant here:
Blindsight - Note that the sense uses the word "perceive", not "see", so that color thing is important, but otherwise its perceptions are accurate. Daredevil, if you will.
Echolocation - the only thing this trait does is link the usage of blindsight to the bat's ears - if they don't work, it doesn't work. Also note here that the bat doesn't have darkvision, so if it's deafened, it's truly blind in the dark (it isn't naturally blind, though, so it can see fine in bright or dim light).
Anything beyond those rules is open to interpretation, and the DM may rule one way or another, especially for unique flavor. It's a good idea for those rulings not to find the players in vehement disagreement, though - the best of those rulings I've seen are usually instigated by players.
Well, first and foremost: Bats aren't blind, they actually have rather good eyesight.
In fact, research shows that depending on the circumstances, bats sometimes prefer using eyesight to sound when hunting. And many fruit bats, which drink nectar rather than hunt insects, don't echolocate at all. These species have particularly sharp vision, and some can even see ultraviolet light
Then we look at this:
Echolocation: The bat can't use its Blindsight while Deafened.
Keen Hearing: The bat has advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing.
No where on the Bat's stat block does it say that the creature is blind so, it has the same visual capabilities as a Human, Dragonborn, and Halfling. Disadvantage in dim light and blind in darkness, however the echolocation/blindsight compensates for that blindness/disadvantage.
---
I could understand not being able to see in color with the echolocation, but describing things as a shape only seems a bit much. Humans who have learned echolocation can give rather accurate descriptions of the things around them, not just shapes. It stands to reason a bat would be better at it than a human since it's something that is inherent to the creature, not a learned trick.
Late to the party, but for those who stumble upon this thread, how about this quote from the Find Familiar spell?
"Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn, gaining the benefits of any special senses that the familiar has."
The real question, since it seems we agree bats have better senses than the person controlling them, is how do you think your character will react to seeing new wavelengths of light (UV) and how do you describe that having never seen uv yourself?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
So, I have summoned a bat familiar. I really expected to be able to "see" through its senses like you would if it was an owl, but my DM has ruled that I can't get a proper picture of what the bat sees as it's using echolocation, so all I experience is a sense of shapes. He's said that if it was an owl, I'd be able to see normally through its eyes.
Thus:-
Clearly the owl option is superior, but the bat is far more in keeping with my PC's style so I'd prefer a bat. Are there any rules to back up the fact that I might be able to get more of a proper view of what my bat is "seeing"?
When answering please ignore all the other differences between bat and owl - I'm aware of them and their relative benefits.
Thanks
Blakey
My Author Page: www.peterjblake.com
Novels Published: Reynard's Fate, Kita's Honour, Okoth's War and Callindrill
You should discuss this with your DM (calmly), but, generally, there is nothing in the rules that suggests the bat cannot recognize a bear if it has seen one before (the color is another matter), and a spellcaster doesn't need any additional "translation" to perceive what his familiar perceives (the wonders of magic). As Jeremy Crawford usually says, if that was true, the trait would say so.
Only two traits are relevant here:
Blindsight - Note that the sense uses the word "perceive", not "see", so that color thing is important, but otherwise its perceptions are accurate. Daredevil, if you will.
Echolocation - the only thing this trait does is link the usage of blindsight to the bat's ears - if they don't work, it doesn't work. Also note here that the bat doesn't have darkvision, so if it's deafened, it's truly blind in the dark (it isn't naturally blind, though, so it can see fine in bright or dim light).
Anything beyond those rules is open to interpretation, and the DM may rule one way or another, especially for unique flavor. It's a good idea for those rulings not to find the players in vehement disagreement, though - the best of those rulings I've seen are usually instigated by players.
Well, first and foremost: Bats aren't blind, they actually have rather good eyesight.
Then we look at this:
No where on the Bat's stat block does it say that the creature is blind so, it has the same visual capabilities as a Human, Dragonborn, and Halfling. Disadvantage in dim light and blind in darkness, however the echolocation/blindsight compensates for that blindness/disadvantage.
---
I could understand not being able to see in color with the echolocation, but describing things as a shape only seems a bit much. Humans who have learned echolocation can give rather accurate descriptions of the things around them, not just shapes. It stands to reason a bat would be better at it than a human since it's something that is inherent to the creature, not a learned trick.
But they are blind in the dark, visually speaking.
EDIT: Sorry. For some reason I thought the OP said it was a dark environment. I see now that he did not.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Very true, which is why I addressed it a little bit later saying that they have the same limitations as Humans, Dragonborn, and Halflings.
Late to the party, but for those who stumble upon this thread, how about this quote from the Find Familiar spell?
"Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn, gaining the benefits of any special senses that the familiar has."
The real question, since it seems we agree bats have better senses than the person controlling them, is how do you think your character will react to seeing new wavelengths of light (UV) and how do you describe that having never seen uv yourself?
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"