Ravnodaus, if you read the rules or the SAC, you'll find that you are describing how you think it should work, not what is written or intended to work. Your whole argument hinges on using rules for components that spells don't have. The rules you're talking about for the focus refer to the rules that you're trying to ignore by pointing the focus rules out (your quote even has the link!!!!!). That is some seriously circular misunderstanding.
What am I ignoring? Am I ignoring this?
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Nope, I'm not ignoring that. Your free hand, holding your spellcasting focus, can be the same hand used to perform somatic components. That's a direct quote from the rulebook.
My whole argument hinges on using the rules that the arcane focus tells you to use. The ones you're ignoring.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Let me ask it this way: Do I need to have the archery fighting style to add the +2 to attack rolls from it to my ranged attacks? Why?
If you can apply rules when they aren't relevant to a situation (M component rules are relevant to spells with M components) then what ever prevents you from using anything you find in a rule always?
Let me ask it this way: Do I need to have the archery fighting style to add the +2 to attack rolls from it to my ranged attacks? Why?
If you can apply rules when they aren't relevant to a situation (M component rules are relevant to spells with M components) then what ever prevents you from using anything you find in a rule always?
I have to preface by saying that, while I disagree vehemently with the "section header limits the scope without exception" argument, it's the only argument here that I accept as being made in good faith, so I'm not here to combat the general point.
But that said, there's obviously a significant difference between "a feature that you explicitly choose when you level up" and "a general rule about material components and the things adjacent to them."
Let me ask it this way: Do I need to have the archery fighting style to add the +2 to attack rolls from it to my ranged attacks? Why?
If you can apply rules when they aren't relevant to a situation (M component rules are relevant to spells with M components) then what ever prevents you from using anything you find in a rule always?
I have to preface by saying that, while I disagree vehemently with the "section header limits the scope without exception" argument, it's the only argument here that I accept as being made in good faith, so I'm not here to combat the general point.
But that said, there's obviously a significant difference between "a feature that you explicitly choose when you level up" and "a general rule about material components and the things adjacent to them."
But there is nothing in either feature that says when they apply. Fighting style only says that you get to choose one, not that the others don't apply if you don't choose them. And the text of archery itself certainly doesn't tell you that you need to have selected it to use the bonus. Sure it is twisted logic, but it is the same mental gymnastics you need to use to apply any rule whenever it isn't applicable. Do you really need me to look for another example of something that is strictly more similar?
Here's another example. There is a sentence that says "If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot." in the rules. Does that mean that whenever you lose concentration on spells, you don't use their slots?!
Many sentences in the rules are self-contained enough that you can interpret them without context, but many others require context such as adjoining text and headings to be interpreted properly. Merely cutting an entire sentence out of the rulebook and using only the text of that sentence as a rule leads to innumerable nonsensical situations. "Its a sentence in the rulebook; its a rule" is the philosophy of someone who clearly hasn't put that test to anything else in the rulebooks and is still just thinking about how they want component rules to be. Simply put, context helps define the scope of many rules in 5e.
Ravnodaus, if you read the rules or the SAC, you'll find that you are describing how you think it should work, not what is written or intended to work. Your whole argument hinges on using rules for components that spells don't have. The rules you're talking about for the focus refer to the rules that you're trying to ignore by pointing the focus rules out (your quote even has the link!!!!!). That is some seriously circular misunderstanding.
What am I ignoring? Am I ignoring this?
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Nope, I'm not ignoring that. Your free hand, holding your spellcasting focus, can be the same hand used to perform somatic components. That's a direct quote from the rulebook.
My whole argument hinges on using the rules that the arcane focus tells you to use. The ones you're ignoring.
The problem is that the part about the spellcasting focus is only mentioned in the Material Components section of spellcasting and not mentioned in the somatic components section.
The logic would then run that if I am casting a spell with Material components, then I can use a spellcasting focus to replace them. If your spell happens to have somatic and material components, then the material component rules address that, too.
However, if you only have somatic components and you only read about somatic components, then you wouldn't even know that a spellcasting focus could be used. The fact that somatic components comes before material components also lends to them not being associated with spellcasting foci since the foci are introduced in the section after somatic components.
If you can apply rules when they aren't relevant to a situation (M component rules are relevant to spells with M components) then what ever prevents you from using anything you find in a rule always?
You use the rules of an arcane focus when you channel spells through it. Any arcane spell can be channeled through it. So you use the rules of an arcane focus for each of those spells. The rules for an arcane focus specifically direct you to the material components rules text that says you can fulfil S components with the same hand as your spellcasting focus.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You guys are ignoring, straight up ignoring the rules of the object itself. Read the rules for the Arcane Focus.
Your argument revolves around entirely pretending the Arcane Focus doesn't have its own instructions for using it to channel your spells.
Got a S component spell. Wanna cast it with the same hand holding your Arcane Focus? Channel it through the focus. Problem solved.
Yall are trying way, way to hard to pretend that the rules for an arcane focus don't exist and I'm not sure why. But they do exist. I'll quote them again because maybe seeing them will snap some sense into you lot.
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in the Spellcasting section.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You guys are ignoring, straight up ignoring the rules of the object itself. Read the rules for the Arcane Focus.
Your argument revolves around entirely pretending the Arcane Focus doesn't have its own instructions for using it to channel your spells.
Got a S component spell. Wanna cast it with the same hand holding your Arcane Focus? Channel it through the focus. Problem solved.
Yall are trying way, way to hard to pretend that the rules for an arcane focus don't exist and I'm not sure why. But they do exist. I'll quote them again because maybe seeing them will snap some sense into you lot.
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in the Spellcasting section.
Some cars have remote start ignitions. If I'm trying to start a car with a remote start ignition, I can do so if I have a remote start for it.
However, if my car doesn't have a remote start ignition, I can't start it with a remote start ignition no matter how many remote starters I have.
The Arcane Focus is like the remote starter app or device on the key fob. The ignition is like the spell and the remote start aspect of the ignition is a material component.
I have an SUV with remote start and an older sedan that doesn't have remote start. No matter how many times I press the button on my key fob to remote start my sedan, it's not going to start. The SUV will, but not the sedan.
This is what we've been trying to tell you with the spells.
Components
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components. If you can't provide one or more of a spell's components, you are unable to cast the spell.
Verbal (V)
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
At best, your view would be correct if the DM rules that the word "components" included all components and not just the objects referred to by "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry." If you're the DM and want to rule that way, it's within your purview. If your DM rules that way, awesome. The vast majority of people who have commented on this post have expressed a different reading, which means that you would be less likely to find that DM statistically speaking.
At best, your view would be correct if the DM rules that the word "components" included all components and not just the objects referred to by "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry." If you're the DM and want to rule that way, it's within your purview. If your DM rules that way, awesome. The vast majority of people who have commented on this post have expressed a different reading, which means that you would be less likely to find that DM statistically speaking.
Your car analogy is...muddled. Please stick to the rules text. My view is 100% correct. Chanel spell through arcane focus. Description on Arcane focus says to see Spellcasting rules, specifically in Material Components section, for how it functions. This section says S components can be completed with same hand holding the focus.
Super simple, literally just follows the rules as they tell us to.
Where am I going wrong? By actually doing what the rules says to do? Sorry what?
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
“My view is 100% correct.” Proceeds to reason in a circle, starting from the idea that you can use a focus for all spells. The focus rule you point to clearly says you use the spellcasting rules - that tell you when you can use a focus (hint, it is to replace material components).
”Where am I going wrong?” Proceeds to ignore people tell him he has gone wrong.
You need to stop with the supposition that it is what you are holding and not what you are doing that defines the spellcasting rules that you follow. Foremost it is the spell that defines the rules that you follow when casting that spell.
At best, your view would be correct if the DM rules that the word "components" included all components and not just the objects referred to by "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry." If you're the DM and want to rule that way, it's within your purview. If your DM rules that way, awesome. The vast majority of people who have commented on this post have expressed a different reading, which means that you would be less likely to find that DM statistically speaking.
Your car analogy is...muddled. Please stick to the rules text. My view is 100% correct. Chanel spell through arcane focus. Description on Arcane focus says to see Spellcasting rules, specifically in Material Components section, for how it functions. This section says S components can be completed with same hand holding the focus.
Super simple, literally just follows the rules as they tell us to.
Where am I going wrong? By actually doing what the rules says to do? Sorry what?
RAW:
If you are casting a spell that requires “M Components” and you are using an Arcane Focus to replace the “M Components” for a spell, and that spell also has “S Components” then you can use the hand that is holding the Focus to perform those “S Components.”
If you are casting a spell that does not require “M Components” but does have “S Components” then you must have a “free hand” to perform those “S Components.” If you are holding a stick, then your hand is not “free.”
“My view is 100% correct.” Proceeds to reason in a circle, starting from the idea that you can use a focus for all spells. The focus rule you point to clearly says you use the spellcasting rules - that tell you when you can use a focus (hint, it is to replace material components).
OMG, wait. THAT is where you're coming from? That you can only use a focus ONLY for spells with material components? Haha. Okay, Okay. I see now.
Where does the rules say that, though?
Alls I see is:
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells.
You got some other rules to use while we're holding an Arcane Focus in our hand and casting a spell?
Don't go invoking that Material Component section now... else we gotta follow the rules listed in that section. That's not what you're going to do is it?
Edit: I just love the fact that you are using the rules section you say we must have cause to visit to say that we don't visit that section of the rules. Hilarious!
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If you are casting a spell that does not require “M Components” but does have “S Components” then you must have a “free hand” to perform those “S Components.” If you are holding a stick, then your hand is not “free.”
True, but if you are holding an Arcane Focus:
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in the Spellcasting section.
And that section of Spellcasting says:
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Which is RAW. I know this because I'm actually quoting the rules, as they are written. That's what RAW means.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This has also been clarified in the official document meant to clarify rules ambiguities, the Sage Advice Compendium:
What’s the amount of interaction needed to use a spellcasting focus? Does it have to be included in the somatic component?
If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell. The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.
If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component.
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
At best, your view would be correct if the DM rules that the word "components" included all components and not just the objects referred to by "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry." If you're the DM and want to rule that way, it's within your purview. If your DM rules that way, awesome. The vast majority of people who have commented on this post have expressed a different reading, which means that you would be less likely to find that DM statistically speaking.
Your car analogy is...muddled. Please stick to the rules text. My view is 100% correct. Chanel spell through arcane focus. Description on Arcane focus says to see Spellcasting rules, specifically in Material Components section, for how it functions. This section says S components can be completed with same hand holding the focus.
Super simple, literally just follows the rules as they tell us to.
Where am I going wrong? By actually doing what the rules says to do? Sorry what?
If I'm looking at the requirements that I need, I see V and S. If I look up only this components, I see nothing that says anything about an arcane focus.
Verbal (V)
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
No mention of Arcane Focus, Druidic Focus, or Holy Symbol (which are all equivalents as far as the discussion goes). Without telling you that you can use the arcane focus et al, you don't know it exists as far as those components are concerned.
No one is arguing that the Arcane Focus can be used to replace Material Components, because it says so in the Material Components section. No one is saying that the hand that is holding the Arcane Focus can perform the somatic components when material components are in play, because the rules tell you they can. It's a specific case that beats the general rule that the caster needs a free hand to perform the Somatic component. If it was intended for the arcane focus to be able to be in the hand and perform the somatic component when no material component was present, the rules in the Somatic component section would have said so.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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What am I ignoring?
Am I ignoring this?
Nope, I'm not ignoring that.
Your free hand, holding your spellcasting focus, can be the same hand used to perform somatic components. That's a direct quote from the rulebook.
My whole argument hinges on using the rules that the arcane focus tells you to use. The ones you're ignoring.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Let me ask it this way: Do I need to have the archery fighting style to add the +2 to attack rolls from it to my ranged attacks? Why?
If you can apply rules when they aren't relevant to a situation (M component rules are relevant to spells with M components) then what ever prevents you from using anything you find in a rule always?
I have to preface by saying that, while I disagree vehemently with the "section header limits the scope without exception" argument, it's the only argument here that I accept as being made in good faith, so I'm not here to combat the general point.
But that said, there's obviously a significant difference between "a feature that you explicitly choose when you level up" and "a general rule about material components and the things adjacent to them."
But there is nothing in either feature that says when they apply. Fighting style only says that you get to choose one, not that the others don't apply if you don't choose them. And the text of archery itself certainly doesn't tell you that you need to have selected it to use the bonus. Sure it is twisted logic, but it is the same mental gymnastics you need to use to apply any rule whenever it isn't applicable. Do you really need me to look for another example of something that is strictly more similar?
Here's another example. There is a sentence that says "If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don't expend a spell slot." in the rules. Does that mean that whenever you lose concentration on spells, you don't use their slots?!
Many sentences in the rules are self-contained enough that you can interpret them without context, but many others require context such as adjoining text and headings to be interpreted properly. Merely cutting an entire sentence out of the rulebook and using only the text of that sentence as a rule leads to innumerable nonsensical situations. "Its a sentence in the rulebook; its a rule" is the philosophy of someone who clearly hasn't put that test to anything else in the rulebooks and is still just thinking about how they want component rules to be. Simply put, context helps define the scope of many rules in 5e.
The problem is that the part about the spellcasting focus is only mentioned in the Material Components section of spellcasting and not mentioned in the somatic components section.
The logic would then run that if I am casting a spell with Material components, then I can use a spellcasting focus to replace them. If your spell happens to have somatic and material components, then the material component rules address that, too.
However, if you only have somatic components and you only read about somatic components, then you wouldn't even know that a spellcasting focus could be used. The fact that somatic components comes before material components also lends to them not being associated with spellcasting foci since the foci are introduced in the section after somatic components.
You use the rules of an arcane focus when you channel spells through it. Any arcane spell can be channeled through it. So you use the rules of an arcane focus for each of those spells. The rules for an arcane focus specifically direct you to the material components rules text that says you can fulfil S components with the same hand as your spellcasting focus.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You guys are ignoring, straight up ignoring the rules of the object itself. Read the rules for the Arcane Focus.
Your argument revolves around entirely pretending the Arcane Focus doesn't have its own instructions for using it to channel your spells.
Got a S component spell. Wanna cast it with the same hand holding your Arcane Focus? Channel it through the focus. Problem solved.
Yall are trying way, way to hard to pretend that the rules for an arcane focus don't exist and I'm not sure why. But they do exist. I'll quote them again because maybe seeing them will snap some sense into you lot.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Some cars have remote start ignitions. If I'm trying to start a car with a remote start ignition, I can do so if I have a remote start for it.
However, if my car doesn't have a remote start ignition, I can't start it with a remote start ignition no matter how many remote starters I have.
The Arcane Focus is like the remote starter app or device on the key fob. The ignition is like the spell and the remote start aspect of the ignition is a material component.
I have an SUV with remote start and an older sedan that doesn't have remote start. No matter how many times I press the button on my key fob to remote start my sedan, it's not going to start. The SUV will, but not the sedan.
This is what we've been trying to tell you with the spells.
Components
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components. If you can't provide one or more of a spell's components, you are unable to cast the spell.
Verbal (V)
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Material (M)
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
At best, your view would be correct if the DM rules that the word "components" included all components and not just the objects referred to by "Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry." If you're the DM and want to rule that way, it's within your purview. If your DM rules that way, awesome. The vast majority of people who have commented on this post have expressed a different reading, which means that you would be less likely to find that DM statistically speaking.
I rule it that way, because fun. But I do acknowledge that it is not RAW.
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That's a fair point. My statement didn't allow for RAF rulings as well as it could have.
Your car analogy is...muddled. Please stick to the rules text.
My view is 100% correct.
Chanel spell through arcane focus. Description on Arcane focus says to see Spellcasting rules, specifically in Material Components section, for how it functions. This section says S components can be completed with same hand holding the focus.
Super simple, literally just follows the rules as they tell us to.
Where am I going wrong? By actually doing what the rules says to do? Sorry what?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I generally assume that it's possible to cast spells through a focus even if they don't specify that a focus is required, but don't consider that RAW.
“My view is 100% correct.” Proceeds to reason in a circle, starting from the idea that you can use a focus for all spells. The focus rule you point to clearly says you use the spellcasting rules - that tell you when you can use a focus (hint, it is to replace material components).
”Where am I going wrong?” Proceeds to ignore people tell him he has gone wrong.
You need to stop with the supposition that it is what you are holding and not what you are doing that defines the spellcasting rules that you follow. Foremost it is the spell that defines the rules that you follow when casting that spell.
RAW:
If you are casting a spell that requires “M Components” and you are using an Arcane Focus to replace the “M Components” for a spell, and that spell also has “S Components” then you can use the hand that is holding the Focus to perform those “S Components.”
If you are casting a spell that does not require “M Components” but does have “S Components” then you must have a “free hand” to perform those “S Components.” If you are holding a stick, then your hand is not “free.”
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
OMG, wait. THAT is where you're coming from? That you can only use a focus ONLY for spells with material components? Haha. Okay, Okay. I see now.
Where does the rules say that, though?
Alls I see is:
You got some other rules to use while we're holding an Arcane Focus in our hand and casting a spell?
Don't go invoking that Material Component section now... else we gotta follow the rules listed in that section. That's not what you're going to do is it?
Edit: I just love the fact that you are using the rules section you say we must have cause to visit to say that we don't visit that section of the rules. Hilarious!
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
True, but if you are holding an Arcane Focus:
And that section of Spellcasting says:
Which is RAW. I know this because I'm actually quoting the rules, as they are written. That's what RAW means.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This has also been clarified in the official document meant to clarify rules ambiguities, the Sage Advice Compendium:
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You are invoking rules without their context. It is like saying “the shield rules say they give you +2 armor. My wizard is wearing a shield.”
The rules have scope. You need to learn to find that.
Ray of Frost V,S.
If I'm looking at the requirements that I need, I see V and S. If I look up only this components, I see nothing that says anything about an arcane focus.
Verbal (V)
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
No mention of Arcane Focus, Druidic Focus, or Holy Symbol (which are all equivalents as far as the discussion goes). Without telling you that you can use the arcane focus et al, you don't know it exists as far as those components are concerned.
No one is arguing that the Arcane Focus can be used to replace Material Components, because it says so in the Material Components section. No one is saying that the hand that is holding the Arcane Focus can perform the somatic components when material components are in play, because the rules tell you they can. It's a specific case that beats the general rule that the caster needs a free hand to perform the Somatic component. If it was intended for the arcane focus to be able to be in the hand and perform the somatic component when no material component was present, the rules in the Somatic component section would have said so.
What?
So the rules for casting a spell while using an Arcane focus are OUT OF SCOPE for casting a spell while using an arcane focus?
You need to strongly reconsider your previous assessment of this ruling if THAT is where you're taking this.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.