There are two layers you have to keep track of: the effect of the charmed condition, and the effect of the spell or ability that has imposed the condition.
The charmed condition does two things: (1) A charmed creature can't attack the charmer or target the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects; and (2) The charmer has advantage on any ability check to interact socially with the creature. So, the charmed condition doesn't really do much to control a target or even force it to like you, it just stops them from directly harming you, and gives you advantage on Persuasion/Intimidation/Deception checks (and again, even those skills don't control a target, even if they succeed).
The Charm Person spell imposes (1) and (2) of the charmed condition above, AND makes the target view you as a friend. Just because something sees you as a friend doesn't mean it obeys you, or even that it won't continue to work at cross purposes to you.
The Succubus has a "Charm" ability that is much stronger than the Charm Person spell, because it allows them to force their target to "obey the fiend's verbal or telepathic commands." Not consider those commands favorably, or view the succubus as a friend, or anything like that... they are completely incapable of resisting the fiend's commands, short of succeeding a save to end the effect. And they only get to make a save to end the effect when (1) it receives any harm or (2) it receives a suicidal command. But even then, if it attempts a save, and fails that save.... it would really have to commit suicide. Being ordered to attack another PC doesn't even grant a save, that's easy...
But the Succubus' ability doesn't make the target forget who their friends are, or force them to view the Succubus as a friend, or be ignorant to the fact that they're controlled. A victim is fully aware of what is happening, probably hates what is happening, and probably will look to sabotage the Succubus if possible... but is powerless to resist direct commands.
Caveat to the above: that's all that the Succubus's charm does mechanically. A DM is of course free to describe it as a powerful feeling of love or lust or something or treat the character as brainwashed, I'm just saying that mechanically the creature's ability makes no mention of any sort of affection, unlike the Charm Person which does.
Their charm is significantly stronger than Charm Person and is also completely different.
The charmed target obeys the fiend's verbal or telepathic commands. If the target suffers any harm or receives a suicidal command, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on a success.
A succubus/incubus could order their charmed target to kill another PC, and the target would have to obey. The PC wouldn't even get another save if they were ordered to kill their teammates.
Sorry to resurrect this, the encounter has already finished but I am second guessing my RP.
My tortle was captured and was charmed by an incubus, he was told to attack his party member that had been captured aswell. He was doing this, but was not doing it to his full ability, lvl6 paladin so has 2 attacks per action but only doing 1, not dashing just using full movement when the member was running away etc.
I was RPing that they knew it was wrong but unable to stop themselves, so were holding back. Would you say this was right, as they were obeying the commands but not blindly following them.
I'd say you did it exactly right. Like I mentioned above, a Succubus Charm doesn't actually make the victim view the Succubus as an ally, or their friends as enemies, it just leaves them powerless to resist direct commands or harm the Succubus. If you were RPing them obeying the letter of the commandment but not the spirit, no problem there that I can see.
Hi !
I have two questions about the special ability from the succubus to Charm their victims.
Is their version of charm stronger than the spell? (The charmed target has to obey .....)
If it is stronger, can a succubus order his / her target to kill another pc?
Thanks!
There are two layers you have to keep track of: the effect of the charmed condition, and the effect of the spell or ability that has imposed the condition.
The charmed condition does two things: (1) A charmed creature can't attack the charmer or target the charmer with harmful abilities or magical effects; and (2) The charmer has advantage on any ability check to interact socially with the creature. So, the charmed condition doesn't really do much to control a target or even force it to like you, it just stops them from directly harming you, and gives you advantage on Persuasion/Intimidation/Deception checks (and again, even those skills don't control a target, even if they succeed).
The Charm Person spell imposes (1) and (2) of the charmed condition above, AND makes the target view you as a friend. Just because something sees you as a friend doesn't mean it obeys you, or even that it won't continue to work at cross purposes to you.
The Succubus has a "Charm" ability that is much stronger than the Charm Person spell, because it allows them to force their target to "obey the fiend's verbal or telepathic commands." Not consider those commands favorably, or view the succubus as a friend, or anything like that... they are completely incapable of resisting the fiend's commands, short of succeeding a save to end the effect. And they only get to make a save to end the effect when (1) it receives any harm or (2) it receives a suicidal command. But even then, if it attempts a save, and fails that save.... it would really have to commit suicide. Being ordered to attack another PC doesn't even grant a save, that's easy...
But the Succubus' ability doesn't make the target forget who their friends are, or force them to view the Succubus as a friend, or be ignorant to the fact that they're controlled. A victim is fully aware of what is happening, probably hates what is happening, and probably will look to sabotage the Succubus if possible... but is powerless to resist direct commands.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Caveat to the above: that's all that the Succubus's charm does mechanically. A DM is of course free to describe it as a powerful feeling of love or lust or something or treat the character as brainwashed, I'm just saying that mechanically the creature's ability makes no mention of any sort of affection, unlike the Charm Person which does.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Their charm is significantly stronger than Charm Person and is also completely different.
A succubus/incubus could order their charmed target to kill another PC, and the target would have to obey. The PC wouldn't even get another save if they were ordered to kill their teammates.
Characters with Fey Ancestry have advantage on the saving throws to resist.
Thanks you guys! Your answers helped me to understand a succubus special Charm ability.
Sorry to resurrect this, the encounter has already finished but I am second guessing my RP.
My tortle was captured and was charmed by an incubus, he was told to attack his party member that had been captured aswell. He was doing this, but was not doing it to his full ability, lvl6 paladin so has 2 attacks per action but only doing 1, not dashing just using full movement when the member was running away etc.
I was RPing that they knew it was wrong but unable to stop themselves, so were holding back. Would you say this was right, as they were obeying the commands but not blindly following them.
I'd say you did it exactly right. Like I mentioned above, a Succubus Charm doesn't actually make the victim view the Succubus as an ally, or their friends as enemies, it just leaves them powerless to resist direct commands or harm the Succubus. If you were RPing them obeying the letter of the commandment but not the spirit, no problem there that I can see.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Depends if the order was to attack them or kill them honestly.
Krask-ToA Lizardfolk druid lvl 1