I am still newish to DnD but the character I play is a warforged. and frankly now its an illegal character due to the changes.
My character was a Warforged skirmisher. that's now no longer a thing as warforged no longer have sub-races. I liked the idea of an integrated defense being the natural armor of my character. but now it's comparable to things I heard about DnD 4e. Just a +1 AC bonus. that's really boring and my character has no armor so now his AC is the worst one out of the whole team. and I'm the only tanky character on the team. and from what i heard from the other players the other races have a similar problem where the changes dummed down or just killed any uniqueness to a race.
I dont know why you thought it was a good idea to dumb down Warforged (and possibly other races) but this change has only hurt the warforged rather than helped it in my personal opinion. i would love to hear other people's thoughts on what else was changed that are questionable or worse detrimental to being that race.
One of the players in my campaign plays a minotaur using the UA rules before the race officially came out. The official race is fairly downgraded from the UA version.
So I ignored the official version. I suggest you and your DM do the same.
Don’t get me started on the changes to the dragonmarks, they are now worse off if they follow the path their house is supposed to be good at. Mark of making loses their temp Cantrip item and instead gains the spells to their spell list that artificers and wizards already have, for example. Dndbeyond doesn’t let you pick the wayfinders version anymore either.
First, unless you're in organized play, there is no such thing as an 'illegal character.' Talk to your DM and explain how you feel. Most will have no problem letting you use the old version.
Second, Warforged aren't really that bad off. Let's look at the changes.
Ability Score Increase: Buffed. Everyone needs Constitution and now you have +2 to it baked in. You also have a floating +1 increase. There is no build where these ASIs are 'bad'.
Warforged Resilience: Minor nerf. You now can suffer the effects of exhaustion. Which normally doesn't matter unless you were trying some coffeelock level shenanigans.
Sentry's Rest: Unchanged.
Integrated Protection: Nerf, mostly. But a necessary one. The old Integrated Protection threw bounded accuracy out the window and was widely considered too strong. New Integrated Protection is still better than most other 'natural armor' effects because it stacks. Most Natural Armor gives 13+Dex. You get Armor+1. Old integrated protection was too complicated (having to remember to up it with every proficiency bonus, requiring DM adjudication for things related to armor usage, etc.). This +1 stacks with almost everything. Studded Leather, Plate Armor, Unarmored Defense, etc. Its especially notable in a campaign with accessible magic armor.
Proficiencies: Buff. One skill, one tool, one language. These were envoy exclusive. Now all warforged have them.
Cut Features: Skirmisher Speed: Extra 5 ft speed is notable but not always relevant. Will be missed. Light Step: Its a feature that requires a split party and encourages lone wolf playstyle. Will not be missed.
Iron Fists: Useless for any build. Get an armblade if you want to be always armed. Unarmed characters have better damage anyway. Powerful Build: Mostly a ribbon. Most games don't track encumbrance and it doesn't help grappling.
Integrated Tool: Free expertise was nice but rarely relevant for anything that wasn't thieves' tools. The whole thing was clunky and ill-designed though (Transformers builds).
As a whole, Warforged used to be on the level of Variant Humans and Yuan-ti Purebloods. Now they're a lot more in line with the other races.
Also I hope this was intentional:
the changes dummed down
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
I was planning on adding the following to warforged characters in my games:
Integrated Design
A warforged character can choose one of the following options when they integrate (or remove) an appropriate armor type using their Integrated Protection trait.
Envoy. When you integrate light or medium armor you can choose this option. Choose one tool you’re proficient with. You can incorporate it into your body as you integrate the armor, during which you remain in contact with the tool as well as the armor. This tool is integrated into your body, and you double your proficiency bonus for any ability checks you make with it. You must have your hands free to use this integrated tool.
Juggernaut. When you integrate medium or heavy armor you can choose this option. When you make an unarmed strike, you can deal 1d4 + your Strength modifier bludgeoning damage instead of the normal damage. In addition, you count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Skirmisher. When you integrate light or no armor you can choose this option. Your walking speed is increased by 5 feet and when you are traveling alone for an extended period of time (one hour or more), you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
Integrated Protection: Nerf, mostly. But a necessary one. The old Integrated Protection threw bounded accuracy out the window and was widely considered too strong. New Integrated Protection is still better than most other 'natural armor' effects because it stacks. Most Natural Armor gives 13+Dex. You get Armor+1. Old integrated protection was too complicated (having to remember to up it with every proficiency bonus, requiring DM adjudication for things related to armor usage, etc.). This +1 stacks with almost everything. Studded Leather, Plate Armor, Unarmored Defense, etc. Its especially notable in a campaign with accessible magic armor.
I consider this a buff, not a nerf. You have the Defense Fighting Style for free--all the time, with any type of armor--with the option of actual magic armor, and you can stack it with the actual DFS if you main/dip a martial class. This is actually way better for those that were playing with the heavy integrated armor from the old template.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I plan on adding private homebrew variants to warforged and the other races to add back in some variety. I will probably make a forum post about it when I do so others can see what I did and how to copy it.
Initial thoughts:
I still don't like the Warforged integrated protection. When WGtE first came out, I didn't like it then either. I just made it choose either 13+Dex or AC=17, like the other racial AC overides.
Changeling needs the tool proficiency still, but probably not expertise.
I had made a shifter variant before it was removed with 3 shifts/long rest. now I'm thinking of doing one that uses 1+CON/Long rest for shifting but the temp HP fades when you shift back.
i didn't say the armor was a nerf. i said it was dull. seriously everything i heard about 4e was. this gives +1 that gives +1. i also heard it was the worse DND edition made. going back towards that isn't something they need to do. i am aware there are intresting way to use the new intigrated protection. (bounded accuracy? what?) and how i ran the skermisher was not lone wolf. the +5 movement helped me get between my foes and my friends. and the stealth walk. i talked to the gm and how its worded doesn't say i cant walk 2-3 minutes ahead of everyone and double back every now and then. so i could "scout" the road ahead. (so far nothing has come from travel combat that wasn't inteninally finding something to fight)
also the ability score increase just got colapsed into one set bonus. before the warforged gave a set bonus then the sub race added to it. con was the race bonus and skermisher was a dex bonus ontop of that. so that doesn't change much. (slight nerf in total if i remember correctly 4 total stat points added before) i will admit the proficencies will help but due to how i built the charecter (rules wise its a humanoid with a sword and spear. and lore wise it was a beast like warforged built to scout regions quickly his model designation and primary task was to be a scout.) tools will be dificult to use lore wise.
also the ability score increase just got colapsed into one set bonus. before the warforged gave a set bonus then the sub race added to it. con was the race bonus and skermisher was a dex bonus ontop of that. so that doesn't change much. (slight nerf in total if i remember correctly 4 total stat points added before) i will admit the proficencies will help but due to how i built the charecter (rules wise its a humanoid with a sword and spear. and lore wise it was a beast like warforged built to scout regions quickly his model designation and primary task was to be a scout.) tools will be dificult to use lore wise.
The UA warforged subraces only had three ability score increases each. All warforged got +1 to constitution, juggernaut got +2 to strength, skirmisher +2 to dexterity, and envoy +1 to two other stats of their choice. The final version is less flexible than the UA envoy, but no worse in terms of quantity.
I consider this a buff, not a nerf. You have the Defense Fighting Style for free--all the time, with any type of armor--with the option of actual magic armor, and you can stack it with the actual DFS if you main/dip a martial class. This is actually way better for those that were playing with the heavy integrated armor from the old template.
This is worth taking a look at.
Let's look at three examples of the old Int Prot. Examples assume point buy and increasing dex when optimal.
Compare Those Values with the Below Mundane Armors:
Studded Leather: 16(+1), 17(+1), 18(+1). Even with the investment of DFS, its outclassed after level 8.
Breast Plate: 17(+1). With DFS, outclassed after level 5.
Chain Mail: 17(+1). DFS outclassed after 1.
Plate: 19(+1). Generally Plate armor shouldn't be expected before level 3 at the earliest. I usually withhold it until 5ish. After level 9, its outclassed even with DFS.
The Question of Magic Items Naturally Comes Up.
By referencing Xanathar's Guide and assuming the item given to the party is exactly what the Warforged needs and nobody else can claim it, we can guesstimate the following Magic Armors.
Level 4: Uncommon (Adamantine Armor.)
Level 10: Rare (+1 Armor)
Level 16+: Legendary (+3 Armor)
So here's how the ideal new 'Forged, assuming Magic Items and Defense Fighting Style stacks up against old 'Forged at each notable level.
Light Armor (New:Old). New wins out for 4 levels. Old wins out for 8 levels.
Level 1: 17:16
Level 4: 18:17
Level 5: 18:18
Level 8: 19:19
Level 9: 19:20
Level 10: 20:20
Level 13: 20:21
Level 16: 22:22
Level 17: 21:22
Medium (New:Old)
Level 1: 18: 17
Level 4: 19: 18 (Switch from Scale Mail to Mithral Half-plate)
Level 5: 19: 18
Level 9: 19: 19
Level 10: 20: 19
Level 13: 20: 20
Level 16: 21: 20
Level 17: 21: 21
Heavy (New:Old) You're right about Heavy at least. A +2 AC improvement at level 16.
Level 1: 18: 18
Level 4: 20: 18 (Hello Plate Armor)
Level 5: 20: 19
Level 9: 20: 20
Level 10: 21: 20
Level 13: 21: 21
Level 16: 23: 21
Level 17: 23: 22
So, breaking it down - if a player invests a class feature AND has the best magical armor theoretically available at that level, and uses Medium or Heavy Armor, they can have an Armor Class that slightly surpasses the old Warforged for part of their career.
However, given the resources required and lack of 'guaranteed' magical items, I think its fair to say its, at best, a wash. Because a Level 17 Juggernaut used to have AC comparable to +3 Plate Armor with next to no investment. In such a case that extraordinarily rare armor could go to a PC that actually needed it.
I'm not saying the old way was healthier, mind you. Just that we can't really call this a 'buff',
You’re still ignoring other properties of magical armor that UA warforged could never access no matter what. It’s a more difficult comparison since it’s not strictly numerical, but it has to be taken into account when considering the question.
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
I am still newish to DnD but the character I play is a warforged. and frankly now its an illegal character due to the changes.
My character was a Warforged skirmisher. that's now no longer a thing as warforged no longer have sub-races. I liked the idea of an integrated defense being the natural armor of my character. but now it's comparable to things I heard about DnD 4e. Just a +1 AC bonus. that's really boring and my character has no armor so now his AC is the worst one out of the whole team. and I'm the only tanky character on the team. and from what i heard from the other players the other races have a similar problem where the changes dummed down or just killed any uniqueness to a race.
I dont know why you thought it was a good idea to dumb down Warforged (and possibly other races) but this change has only hurt the warforged rather than helped it in my personal opinion. i would love to hear other people's thoughts on what else was changed that are questionable or worse detrimental to being that race.
Don’t get me started on the changes to the dragonmarks, they are now worse off if they follow the path their house is supposed to be good at. Mark of making loses their temp Cantrip item and instead gains the spells to their spell list that artificers and wizards already have, for example. Dndbeyond doesn’t let you pick the wayfinders version anymore either.
There's nothing stopping you from using the refund toward purchasing the book.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I am still newish to DnD but the character I play is a warforged. and frankly now its an illegal character due to the changes.
My character was a Warforged skirmisher. that's now no longer a thing as warforged no longer have sub-races. I liked the idea of an integrated defense being the natural armor of my character. but now it's comparable to things I heard about DnD 4e. Just a +1 AC bonus. that's really boring and my character has no armor so now his AC is the worst one out of the whole team. and I'm the only tanky character on the team. and from what i heard from the other players the other races have a similar problem where the changes dummed down or just killed any uniqueness to a race.
I dont know why you thought it was a good idea to dumb down Warforged (and possibly other races) but this change has only hurt the warforged rather than helped it in my personal opinion. i would love to hear other people's thoughts on what else was changed that are questionable or worse detrimental to being that race.
One of the players in my campaign plays a minotaur using the UA rules before the race officially came out. The official race is fairly downgraded from the UA version.
So I ignored the official version. I suggest you and your DM do the same.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yeah the shifters got jobbed also. Hopefully my DM will let me keep playing as it was.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Don’t get me started on the changes to the dragonmarks, they are now worse off if they follow the path their house is supposed to be good at. Mark of making loses their temp Cantrip item and instead gains the spells to their spell list that artificers and wizards already have, for example. Dndbeyond doesn’t let you pick the wayfinders version anymore either.
First, unless you're in organized play, there is no such thing as an 'illegal character.' Talk to your DM and explain how you feel. Most will have no problem letting you use the old version.
Second, Warforged aren't really that bad off. Let's look at the changes.
Ability Score Increase: Buffed. Everyone needs Constitution and now you have +2 to it baked in. You also have a floating +1 increase. There is no build where these ASIs are 'bad'.
Warforged Resilience: Minor nerf. You now can suffer the effects of exhaustion. Which normally doesn't matter unless you were trying some coffeelock level shenanigans.
Sentry's Rest: Unchanged.
Integrated Protection: Nerf, mostly. But a necessary one. The old Integrated Protection threw bounded accuracy out the window and was widely considered too strong. New Integrated Protection is still better than most other 'natural armor' effects because it stacks. Most Natural Armor gives 13+Dex. You get Armor+1. Old integrated protection was too complicated (having to remember to up it with every proficiency bonus, requiring DM adjudication for things related to armor usage, etc.). This +1 stacks with almost everything. Studded Leather, Plate Armor, Unarmored Defense, etc. Its especially notable in a campaign with accessible magic armor.
Proficiencies: Buff. One skill, one tool, one language. These were envoy exclusive. Now all warforged have them.
Cut Features:
Skirmisher Speed: Extra 5 ft speed is notable but not always relevant. Will be missed.
Light Step: Its a feature that requires a split party and encourages lone wolf playstyle. Will not be missed.
Iron Fists: Useless for any build. Get an armblade if you want to be always armed. Unarmed characters have better damage anyway.
Powerful Build: Mostly a ribbon. Most games don't track encumbrance and it doesn't help grappling.
Integrated Tool: Free expertise was nice but rarely relevant for anything that wasn't thieves' tools. The whole thing was clunky and ill-designed though (Transformers builds).
As a whole, Warforged used to be on the level of Variant Humans and Yuan-ti Purebloods. Now they're a lot more in line with the other races.
Also I hope this was intentional:
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
Gonna miss my changeling imposing disadvantage on an attack by freaking out their opponent, but oh well
I was planning on adding the following to warforged characters in my games:
Integrated Design
A warforged character can choose one of the following options when they integrate (or remove) an appropriate armor type using their Integrated Protection trait.
Envoy. When you integrate light or medium armor you can choose this option. Choose one tool you’re proficient with. You can incorporate it into your body as you integrate the armor, during which you remain in contact with the tool as well as the armor. This tool is integrated into your body, and you double your proficiency bonus for any ability checks you make with it. You must have your hands free to use this integrated tool.
Juggernaut. When you integrate medium or heavy armor you can choose this option. When you make an unarmed strike, you can deal 1d4 + your Strength modifier bludgeoning damage instead of the normal damage. In addition, you count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
Skirmisher. When you integrate light or no armor you can choose this option. Your walking speed is increased by 5 feet and when you are traveling alone for an extended period of time (one hour or more), you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
I consider this a buff, not a nerf. You have the Defense Fighting Style for free--all the time, with any type of armor--with the option of actual magic armor, and you can stack it with the actual DFS if you main/dip a martial class. This is actually way better for those that were playing with the heavy integrated armor from the old template.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I plan on adding private homebrew variants to warforged and the other races to add back in some variety. I will probably make a forum post about it when I do so others can see what I did and how to copy it.
Initial thoughts:
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
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I had made a shifter variant before it was removed with 3 shifts/long rest. now I'm thinking of doing one that uses 1+CON/Long rest for shifting but the temp HP fades when you shift back.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
i didn't say the armor was a nerf. i said it was dull. seriously everything i heard about 4e was. this gives +1 that gives +1. i also heard it was the worse DND edition made. going back towards that isn't something they need to do. i am aware there are intresting way to use the new intigrated protection. (bounded accuracy? what?) and how i ran the skermisher was not lone wolf. the +5 movement helped me get between my foes and my friends. and the stealth walk. i talked to the gm and how its worded doesn't say i cant walk 2-3 minutes ahead of everyone and double back every now and then. so i could "scout" the road ahead. (so far nothing has come from travel combat that wasn't inteninally finding something to fight)
also the ability score increase just got colapsed into one set bonus. before the warforged gave a set bonus then the sub race added to it. con was the race bonus and skermisher was a dex bonus ontop of that. so that doesn't change much. (slight nerf in total if i remember correctly 4 total stat points added before) i will admit the proficencies will help but due to how i built the charecter (rules wise its a humanoid with a sword and spear. and lore wise it was a beast like warforged built to scout regions quickly his model designation and primary task was to be a scout.) tools will be dificult to use lore wise.
The UA warforged subraces only had three ability score increases each. All warforged got +1 to constitution, juggernaut got +2 to strength, skirmisher +2 to dexterity, and envoy +1 to two other stats of their choice. The final version is less flexible than the UA envoy, but no worse in terms of quantity.
This is worth taking a look at.
Let's look at three examples of the old Int Prot. Examples assume point buy and increasing dex when optimal.
Light Armor (Dex 16) (11+Dex+Prof)
Level 1: 16. Level 4: 17. Level 5: 18. Level 8: 19. Level 9: 20. Level 13: 21. Level 17: 22
Medium Armor (Dex 14) (15+Prof)
Level 1: 17. Level 5: 18. Level 9: 19. Level 13: 20. Level 17: 21
Heavy Armor (16+Prof)
Level 1: 18. Level 5: 19. Level 9: 20. Level 13: 21. Level 17: 22
Compare Those Values with the Below Mundane Armors:
Studded Leather: 16(+1), 17(+1), 18(+1). Even with the investment of DFS, its outclassed after level 8.
Breast Plate: 17(+1). With DFS, outclassed after level 5.
Chain Mail: 17(+1). DFS outclassed after 1.
Plate: 19(+1). Generally Plate armor shouldn't be expected before level 3 at the earliest. I usually withhold it until 5ish. After level 9, its outclassed even with DFS.
The Question of Magic Items Naturally Comes Up.
By referencing Xanathar's Guide and assuming the item given to the party is exactly what the Warforged needs and nobody else can claim it, we can guesstimate the following Magic Armors.
Level 4: Uncommon (Adamantine Armor.)
Level 10: Rare (+1 Armor)
Level 16+: Legendary (+3 Armor)
So here's how the ideal new 'Forged, assuming Magic Items and Defense Fighting Style stacks up against old 'Forged at each notable level.
Light Armor (New:Old). New wins out for 4 levels. Old wins out for 8 levels.
Level 1: 17:16
Level 4: 18:17
Level 5: 18:18
Level 8: 19:19
Level 9: 19:20
Level 10: 20:20
Level 13: 20:21
Level 16: 22:22
Level 17: 21:22
Medium (New:Old)
Level 1: 18: 17
Level 4: 19: 18 (Switch from Scale Mail to Mithral Half-plate)
Level 5: 19: 18
Level 9: 19: 19
Level 10: 20: 19
Level 13: 20: 20
Level 16: 21: 20
Level 17: 21: 21
Heavy (New:Old) You're right about Heavy at least. A +2 AC improvement at level 16.
Level 1: 18: 18
Level 4: 20: 18 (Hello Plate Armor)
Level 5: 20: 19
Level 9: 20: 20
Level 10: 21: 20
Level 13: 21: 21
Level 16: 23: 21
Level 17: 23: 22
So, breaking it down - if a player invests a class feature AND has the best magical armor theoretically available at that level, and uses Medium or Heavy Armor, they can have an Armor Class that slightly surpasses the old Warforged for part of their career.
However, given the resources required and lack of 'guaranteed' magical items, I think its fair to say its, at best, a wash. Because a Level 17 Juggernaut used to have AC comparable to +3 Plate Armor with next to no investment. In such a case that extraordinarily rare armor could go to a PC that actually needed it.
I'm not saying the old way was healthier, mind you. Just that we can't really call this a 'buff',
Another medical problem. Indefinite hiatus. Sorry, all.
You’re still ignoring other properties of magical armor that UA warforged could never access no matter what. It’s a more difficult comparison since it’s not strictly numerical, but it has to be taken into account when considering the question.
Just wanted to make sure you were all aware of this message from BadEye:
https://twitter.com/BadEyeAdam/status/1196550341212422146
We realize that the Wayfinder's experiment with early access was a new type of distribution from WotC and lessons were learned. If you are still unsatisfied, feel free to contact our support team to request a refund for WGtE - we are committed to doing right by our customers.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
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that's cool. I'm not so interested in a refund, but a credit toward the final book would be nice.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Its worth checking out to see if they can arrange it (they probably can)
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
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There's nothing stopping you from using the refund toward purchasing the book.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
True. it's just extra trouble. I don't know if i care enough about eberron to do that anyway. I'm mostly in it for the races.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137390-weretouched-beasthide
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137424-weretouched-longtooth
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137431-weretouched-razorclaw
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137461-weretouched-swiftstride
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subraces/137646-weretouched-wildhunt
Edit: Sigred pointed out the Orc from Eberron
The additional information in Last War (from what I can tell, I have not done a full read of it yet)
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ