I know this is an older thread, but now that the autognome is available, you could apply their Healing Machine feature to warforged if you like. That would allow the mending cantrip to work as a limited healing resource.
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
I know this is an older thread, but now that the autognome is available, you could apply their Healing Machine feature to warforged if you like. That would allow the mending cantrip to work as a limited healing resource.
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? O.o Cause, every statblock I can think of literally has <average HP> (XdY+Z) with X being the hit dice, Y being the size of hit die defined by their creature size, and Z being "This is the HP that WotC has decided to add to make sure it hits the CR range they want."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I always thought that Z = CON modifier * X, but I'm not willing to bet any money on that.
hm... maybe? I haven't sat down to actually crack it out, but I also fully believe that WotC isn't above "Arbitrary number to hit what we need it to."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I always thought that Z = CON modifier * X, but I'm not willing to bet any money on that.
hm... maybe? I haven't sat down to actually crack it out, but I also fully believe that WotC isn't above "Arbitrary number to hit what we need it to."
I'm certainly not going to say that I've checked every statblock, but the general rule (one without any exception I know of) is certainly that it's the CON mod times the number of hit dice.
it's still a limited resource with auto gnomes out it has pretty clear parameters you're limited to hit dice it's a way to get hp out of combat healing other than a short rest and gives the player a little extra sustainability and honestly, it's not much of a stretch to re-classify war forged as constructs I've been treating them as such and recently discovered my mistake when reviewing it with a dm over a build for example with RAW the steel defender can heal the autoGnome because it's a construct
I know this is an older thread, but now that the autognome is available, you could apply their Healing Machine feature to warforged if you like. That would allow the mending cantrip to work as a limited healing resource.
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? ...
Not to derail this, but since it was bumped, the statblocks that I know that don't list hit dice are the ones within the Tasha's summon spells. i.e. the ones that can summon constructs and (more importantly for shepherd druids) beasts that their subclass features don't work with because WotC forgot to give them hit dice.
I know this is an older thread, but now that the autognome is available, you could apply their Healing Machine feature to warforged if you like. That would allow the mending cantrip to work as a limited healing resource.
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? ...
Not to derail this, but since it was bumped, the statblocks that I know that don't list hit dice are the ones within the Tasha's summon spells. i.e. the ones that can summon constructs and (more importantly for shepherd druids) beasts that their subclass features don't work with because WotC forgot to give them hit dice.
okay, I'll concede this, but in defense of WotC (*shudder*)
...they're not meant to have hit dice. they have set HP + spell level bonuses to their HP.
That said, fair point, and one I wasn't actually aware of since I hadn't looked too terribly hard at the Tasha summons.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I know this is an older thread, but now that the autognome is available, you could apply their Healing Machine feature to warforged if you like. That would allow the mending cantrip to work as a limited healing resource.
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
Warforged are humanoids, not constructs like the autognomes.
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? O.o Cause, every statblock I can think of literally has <average HP> (XdY+Z) with X being the hit dice, Y being the size of hit die defined by their creature size, and Z being "This is the HP that WotC has decided to add to make sure it hits the CR range they want."
Apologies for the month-long delay, I didn't see this.
This will be spell tags, not monster tags, because DDB doesn't seem to have monster entries for them, but each spell will have a statblock in it devoid of hit dice.
Animate Objects (This one doesn't contain a statblock in the traditional sense, but the point is it provides you access to 5 creatures who have hit points but no listed hit dice).
Note that Summon Draconic Spiritdoes have its HD listed, but the above spells have not been errataed to have them.
As an aside, the rules also contain creatures - all the examples I know of are subclass companions, like the Drakewarden Drake and the Battle Smith Defender - that have hit dice, but their hit point totals don't match their hit dice in a way that can be easily "fixed". The Drakewarden's Drake is the only monster I am aware of that breaks the otherwise inviolate rule that only PCs have hd sizes which are independent of their size.
okay, I'll concede this, but in defense of WotC (*shudder*)
...they're not meant to have hit dice. they have set HP + spell level bonuses to their HP.
That said, fair point, and one I wasn't actually aware of since I hadn't looked too terribly hard at the Tasha summons.
Ah, that really will derail this topic, but it is a design problem if they're meant to replace summons that did have hit dice when there is a subclass whose major feature relies on improving summons through their hit dice.
We can brew this up pretty easily, though. It's a medium creature, so the hit die size is most likely going to be a d8. We could work backwards from their 40 hit points when cast at level 4. With a +4 CON modifier, the closest formula I can come up with would be something like this:
Hit Dice
Die size
Con mod
Avg HP
1
8
4
8.5
2
8
4
17
3
8
4
25.5
4
8
4
34
5
8
4
42.5
6
8
4
51
7
8
4
59.5
8
8
4
68
9
8
4
76.5
10
8
4
85
So on this chart, it would have 5 hit dice. But really, I think the easiest way to scale it for upcasting would be to say it has hit dice equal to the proficiency bonus of the caster who summoned it.
I mean, that is if you want to apply the healing machine feature to it, which it doesn't have.
EDIT: This chart is in response to WolfOfTheBees talking about not knowing how many hit dice to apply to the construct summoned by the summon construct spell.
yeah you went made a whole chart when hit dice are based on classes not race
Typically, only player characters have classes. For monsters, hit dice are based on size. As TexasDevin pointed out, you’re trying to argue with him when you’re not even talking about what he’s talking about.
yeah i missed something i corrected it in dms if Tasha's was out when they were having this problem the homunculus servant and steel defender provide suitable templates for healing with mending
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? O.o Cause, every statblock I can think of literally has <average HP> (XdY+Z) with X being the hit dice, Y being the size of hit die defined by their creature size, and Z being "This is the HP that WotC has decided to add to make sure it hits the CR range they want."
Apologies for the month-long delay, I didn't see this.
This will be spell tags, not monster tags, because DDB doesn't seem to have monster entries for them, but each spell will have a statblock in it devoid of hit dice.
Animate Objects (This one doesn't contain a statblock in the traditional sense, but the point is it provides you access to 5 creatures who have hit points but no listed hit dice).
Note that Summon Draconic Spiritdoes have its HD listed, but the above spells have not been errataed to have them.
As an aside, the rules also contain creatures - all the examples I know of are subclass companions, like the Drakewarden Drake and the Battle Smith Defender - that have hit dice, but their hit point totals don't match their hit dice in a way that can be easily "fixed". The Drakewarden's Drake is the only monster I am aware of that breaks the otherwise inviolate rule that only PCs have hd sizes which are independent of their size.
This breakdown of creatures is pretty interesting because every creature listed that lacks hit dice is a purely temporary creature. None of them will persist long enough to be able to survive a short rest... they pop into existence for an hour, then disappear. Meanwhile, creatures meant as permanent companions either just use the stats of existing creatures or they make sure to give them unique stats that include hit dice.
I think if Mending was given universal language within the spell itself that it could be used to heal any creature of the Construct Type by spending Hit Dice, then it might be required to make certain that every single possible Construct is granted hit dice, but even now for the constructs that have special rules that allows you to heal them with mending, they each have their own distinct version. Autognomes spend their hit dice to recover their health, but a Battlesmith's Steel Defender can just infinitely recover 2d6 over and over again as long as someone is willing to spend the time to keep casting mending.
True, but still, if there are features that are intended to work on temporary creatures and use hit dice... that warrants giving those temporary creatures hit dice even if they won't survive long enough to generally use them.
i was mistaken on what we were talking about. At first, I was referring to the hit die on a war-forged player character. I'm re-classifying them in my game as constructs and allowing them to have the properties like the auto-gnome. It was made clear we were talking about a summon spell and if Tasha's was out when this was an issue the steel defender has an amount mend heals for as does the servant one is medium one is tiny i think they're 2D8+casting mod & 2D 6 + casting mod
Mending does explicitly say it can physically repair constructs and then provides no details. It would make sense to just in general let mending let constructs spend 1 hit die to heal as if they'd short rested, and as you say, since hit dice are finite, it would be intrinsically finite (and slow) healing.
A separate problem is dealing with statblocks that don't list their hit dice and have a hit point total that can't be sanely backsolved to a number of hit dice.
...what statblocks don't list their hitdice? O.o Cause, every statblock I can think of literally has <average HP> (XdY+Z) with X being the hit dice, Y being the size of hit die defined by their creature size, and Z being "This is the HP that WotC has decided to add to make sure it hits the CR range they want."
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I always thought that Z = CON modifier * X, but I'm not willing to bet any money on that.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
hm... maybe? I haven't sat down to actually crack it out, but I also fully believe that WotC isn't above "Arbitrary number to hit what we need it to."
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
I'm certainly not going to say that I've checked every statblock, but the general rule (one without any exception I know of) is certainly that it's the CON mod times the number of hit dice.
it's still a limited resource with auto gnomes out it has pretty clear parameters you're limited to hit dice it's a way to get hp out of combat healing other than a short rest and gives the player a little extra sustainability and honestly, it's not much of a stretch to re-classify war forged as constructs I've been treating them as such and recently discovered my mistake when reviewing it with a dm over a build for example with RAW the steel defender can heal the autoGnome because it's a construct
Not to derail this, but since it was bumped, the statblocks that I know that don't list hit dice are the ones within the Tasha's summon spells. i.e. the ones that can summon constructs and (more importantly for shepherd druids) beasts that their subclass features don't work with because WotC forgot to give them hit dice.
okay, I'll concede this, but in defense of WotC (*shudder*)
...they're not meant to have hit dice. they have set HP + spell level bonuses to their HP.
That said, fair point, and one I wasn't actually aware of since I hadn't looked too terribly hard at the Tasha summons.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Warforged are humanoids, not constructs like the autognomes.
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Apologies for the month-long delay, I didn't see this.
This will be spell tags, not monster tags, because DDB doesn't seem to have monster entries for them, but each spell will have a statblock in it devoid of hit dice.
Note that Summon Draconic Spirit does have its HD listed, but the above spells have not been errataed to have them.
As an aside, the rules also contain creatures - all the examples I know of are subclass companions, like the Drakewarden Drake and the Battle Smith Defender - that have hit dice, but their hit point totals don't match their hit dice in a way that can be easily "fixed". The Drakewarden's Drake is the only monster I am aware of that breaks the otherwise inviolate rule that only PCs have hd sizes which are independent of their size.
Ah, that really will derail this topic, but it is a design problem if they're meant to replace summons that did have hit dice when there is a subclass whose major feature relies on improving summons through their hit dice.
We can brew this up pretty easily, though. It's a medium creature, so the hit die size is most likely going to be a d8. We could work backwards from their 40 hit points when cast at level 4. With a +4 CON modifier, the closest formula I can come up with would be something like this:
So on this chart, it would have 5 hit dice. But really, I think the easiest way to scale it for upcasting would be to say it has hit dice equal to the proficiency bonus of the caster who summoned it.
I mean, that is if you want to apply the healing machine feature to it, which it doesn't have.
EDIT: This chart is in response to WolfOfTheBees talking about not knowing how many hit dice to apply to the construct summoned by the summon construct spell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
just follow the auto gnome model roll hit dice also warforged are player characters
Yeah, I don't think we are talking about the same thing at all.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
yeah you went made a whole chart when hit dice are based on classes not race
Typically, only player characters have classes. For monsters, hit dice are based on size. As TexasDevin pointed out, you’re trying to argue with him when you’re not even talking about what he’s talking about.
yeah i missed something i corrected it in dms if Tasha's was out when they were having this problem the homunculus servant and steel defender provide suitable templates for healing with mending
This breakdown of creatures is pretty interesting because every creature listed that lacks hit dice is a purely temporary creature. None of them will persist long enough to be able to survive a short rest... they pop into existence for an hour, then disappear. Meanwhile, creatures meant as permanent companions either just use the stats of existing creatures or they make sure to give them unique stats that include hit dice.
I think if Mending was given universal language within the spell itself that it could be used to heal any creature of the Construct Type by spending Hit Dice, then it might be required to make certain that every single possible Construct is granted hit dice, but even now for the constructs that have special rules that allows you to heal them with mending, they each have their own distinct version. Autognomes spend their hit dice to recover their health, but a Battlesmith's Steel Defender can just infinitely recover 2d6 over and over again as long as someone is willing to spend the time to keep casting mending.
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True, but still, if there are features that are intended to work on temporary creatures and use hit dice... that warrants giving those temporary creatures hit dice even if they won't survive long enough to generally use them.
i was mistaken on what we were talking about. At first, I was referring to the hit die on a war-forged player character. I'm re-classifying them in my game as constructs and allowing them to have the properties like the auto-gnome. It was made clear we were talking about a summon spell and if Tasha's was out when this was an issue the steel defender has an amount mend heals for as does the servant one is medium one is tiny i think they're 2D8+casting mod & 2D 6 + casting mod