So I'm a bit confused about this feat. It says as follows:
- While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
1st question: Does that mean 10ft? My reach is 10ft, so that should be the case, correct? My 2nd question is about the regular opportunity attack. When a creature leaves my reach. What then? Is my reach still 10ft? On my character page it says that the reach for my opportunity attack (Polearm master - opportunity attack) is just 5ft.
I have no idea. And on a sidenote, it also says that the bonus attack is just 5ft. So, anyone that knows more than me, please help!
As mog pointed out, the quarterstaff and spear only have a reach of 5ft, the others have a reach of 10ft.
The way DDB works, these actions are added and defined by the feat, and have no way to check which weapon you have. It is a technical limitation, so you have to just read and follow the rules and correct the character sheet if needed.
If you are using a reach weapon, your OA will trigger at 10 feet.
I had a related question. I am using a quarterstaff, one handed, with a shield. Nothing in the feat description leads me to believe I cannot do this and I should still gain all the benefits of the feat. Somehow though it does not feel right? Can someone realistically wield a quarterstaff one handed with a shield in their off-hand and hit you effectively with both ends? Isn't the idea of a polearm to keep your enemies at bay and strike the first with your longer reach before they can engage. It feel the quarterstaff could definitely benefit from the bonus action attack if wielded two handed, regardless of range, but the opportunity attack seems like a stretch if they aren't considered reach weapons.
This came up because I liked playing pacifist clerics in V4 but there really is no such thing in V5 except perhaps the life cleric. I liked the idea of not making offensive attacks, but being able to defend myself if someone came at me with ill intent. This feat as a life cleric was the perfect fit for that concept.
RAW, you absolutely can use the bonus action attack with a staff and shield or spear and shield. I get how it might seem weird conceptually, but I think it’s fine, and I’d object to a DM trying to house-rule it out.
I had a related question. I am using a quarterstaff, one handed, with a shield. Nothing in the feat description leads me to believe I cannot do this and I should still gain all the benefits of the feat. Somehow though it does not feel right? Can someone realistically wield a quarterstaff one handed with a shield in their off-hand and hit you effectively with both ends? Isn't the idea of a polearm to keep your enemies at bay and strike the first with your longer reach before they can engage. It feel the quarterstaff could definitely benefit from the bonus action attack if wielded two handed, regardless of range, but the opportunity attack seems like a stretch if they aren't considered reach weapons.
This came up because I liked playing pacifist clerics in V4 but there really is no such thing in V5 except perhaps the life cleric. I liked the idea of not making offensive attacks, but being able to defend myself if someone came at me with ill intent. This feat as a life cleric was the perfect fit for that concept.
Thoughts?
yes, you can do it as written. No, I do not believe that it's even a little realistic.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
D&D combat isn’t the least bit realistic! In reality, both a quarterstaff and a spear should have “reach” and many of the others would have been too long to flip around like the feat describes at all!
The flipping around part is not realistic, but fighting with a polearm and shield is quite effective and was used by real world hoplites / phalanx soldiers. If they could do it with a spear, there's no reason a fantasy hero can't do it with a quarterstaff.
Spears had sharp points to do damage with, quarterstaves do not. A quarterstaff relies on a solid bash in order to do it's damage.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It's entirely possible to do a stop thrust with a one-handed pole weapon (the reaction attack). I interpret the d4 bonus action attack as an offhand weapon attack and thus don't allow it with one-handed use, but RAW it's possible.
It's entirely possible to do a stop thrust with a one-handed pole weapon (the reaction attack). I interpret the d4 bonus action attack as an offhand weapon attack and thus don't allow it with one-handed use, but RAW it's possible.
Sure, you can poke someone with the tip of a staff, but it's not going to do much. Poke someone one-handed with a /spear/ however and it's a much different level of penetration.
What I would consider is allowing the bonus action attack to be fluffed into a d4 shield bash. I might be able to get on board with that. What I struggle with are rules lawyers trying to shillelagh their way into a d8 one hander + the d4 bonus action with mods.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Sure, you can poke someone with the tip of a staff, but it's not going to do much.
That's just an argument for not allowing PAM with staff weapons at all. I think it's all because they were combining two different 3e sets of tricks: there were lots of opportunity attack tricks in 3e for reach weapons, and also there were feats that let you treat staffs (and other polearms?) as double weapons.
Sure, you can poke someone with the tip of a staff, but it's not going to do much.
That's just an argument for not allowing PAM with staff weapons at all. I think it's all because they were combining two different 3e sets of tricks: there were lots of opportunity attack tricks in 3e for reach weapons, and also there were feats that let you treat staffs (and other polearms?) as double weapons.
No, it's an argument against using pam tricks + shield. If you want to two hand crack someone in the face with a staff, that's going to hurt, and I have no problems with it. masters in medieval times often suggested that the Quarterstaff was possibly the most versatile weapon around. I'm totally on board with getting an attack when someone enters your reach, and also using the back end for a bonus action attack. I have zero problems there at all.
One handing it so you can benefit from a shield as well...not so much. That's where 100% of my problem lives at. if you want the benefits of pam, you forgo the shield. The rules say you can do it, but I would never allow someone at my table to do it. I am houseruling that with a vengeance. I'd allow the part of pam where they make an attack when someone enters reach with a 1h spear. No offhand action with that though if you're carrying a shield.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
To get PAM at first level I have to give up 4 ability points which is a steep price. Getting it later only costs 2 ability points. I dont like to game the point system though and prefer to create a unique character that does some special things and some other not so special things. I always play defensive character so giving up my shield bothers me more than giving up the 4 ability points. Not being a weapons expert by any stretch of the imagination, I was curious if my initial incredulity at the feasibility of using this feat with a staff and a shield was justified or if there are in fact martial artist who can and do use a staff one handed effectively. Monks come to mind, but again, I am far from an expert on this.
Thanks to all for your insights. If this virus thing ever ends and I can start playing in live groups, I'll have to have a discussion with our DM on this.
To get PAM at first level I have to give up 4 ability points which is a steep price. Getting it later only costs 2 ability points. I dont like to game the point system though and prefer to create a unique character that does some special things and some other not so special things. I always play defensive character so giving up my shield bothers me more than giving up the 4 ability points. Not being a weapons expert by any stretch of the imagination, I was curious if my initial incredulity at the feasibility of using this feat with a staff and a shield was justified or if there are in fact martial artist who can and do use a staff one handed effectively. Monks come to mind, but again, I am far from an expert on this.
Thanks to all for your insights. If this virus thing ever ends and I can start playing in live groups, I'll have to have a discussion with our DM on this.
Also keep in mind that those four ability points you'd be giving up will be in abilities that are less relevant to you, whereas the two you give up later will be in abilities that are relevant to you. Comparing them solely numerically is not the best way to see which is the greater cost to you. If you're a STR fighter, two points of strength are much more valuable to you than one point each of dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma.
To get PAM at first level I have to give up 4 ability points which is a steep price.
In point build terms it's generally going to be 4 points because they're mostly in dump stats, while ability score increases are almost always on high-value stats that would cost x2 or be entirely unavailable.
I don't agree that a spear and quarterstaff should have "Reach", they are between 5' and 6'. In order for them to have "Reach" you'd need to hold them by the very ends, you'd have no leverage or sustained pressure if you do that. Polearms are long and need two hands to use thus the "Reach" and being able to have leverage and sustained pressure to do damage. IMHO anyways!
I don't agree that a spear and quarterstaff should have "Reach", they are between 5' and 6'. In order for them to have "Reach" you'd need to hold them by the very ends, you'd have no leverage or sustained pressure if you do that. Polearms are long and need two hands to use thus the "Reach" and being able to have leverage and sustained pressure to do damage. IMHO anyways!
A 5-6 foot spear is what D&D classes as javelin - probably the single most common weapon in history.
A D&D spear is more like a hoplite dorus and would be about 8-9 foot - they should have reach, especially if used two-handed but they don't which is sad because without it there's really no reason to upgrade from javelin.
Pikes are really sad in D&D they should have additional reach - 5 ranks of humans worth in reality (because real humans squash closer than 5 feet cubes) but 15 foot reach would approximate it and pretty much nothing within that - so great at stabbing at 10-15 feet away, a hindrance at 5 feet. As such it's a pretty useless weapon in D&D style skirmish combat - only one instance of a pike being used in a duel I'm aware of (and that may be a transcription error) - hire a pack of hirelings though and block a corridor with them!
Javelin - spear - pike are really just three lengths of spear: short one-handed; long one or two-handed; very long two-handed.
Polearms like halberds and glaives (and the myriad of other names which all boil down to either chop or stab) are heavy and unwieldy, you can't really use them one-handed at all but they do outreach a sword - used two-handed they can utilise a 'butt attack' fighting style, although that's probably more Hollywood than history - but in a skirmish like D&D combat seems fine. Popular with guards because they are good for crowd control and look badass, also handy for beating plate-armoured gentry senseless.
Quarterstaffs should absolutely be usable two-handed - it would be more common for it to get the 'butt attack' when used like that and it's the instinctive way to use one. Whether it would have reach is debatable, it'd need to be one-handed so probably not in D&D terms where reach is really outreaching a sword or similar with a meaningful strike. Two-handed staffs are wielded in order to block and attack with both ends, not at distance.
Most D&D weapons are not realistic. Do not get me started on ranged weapons and strength.
Pikes for example are nearly worthless as a weapon if it is just you. Too long, too hard to shift against a charging opponent.
They are however the perfect formation weapon for pre-gunpowder times. 25 trained pikemen in formation take little damage from normal ranged weapons, they hit the forest and stop. They basically kill any charging enemy without taking any damage. Same for most melee weapons - you get close enough with a sword or mace and you find you can't swing or maneuver. Easier for the pike men to stab you with a dagger.
Main weakness are
Mobility. They suck at it. A highly mobile attacker forces them to shift, which disrupts the formation and they lose most advantages.
Massive overpowered ranged attacks. Siege weapons and gunpowder weapons did this, but so can heavy crossbows or longbowmen if you have either the time or outnumber the enemy.
A highly dexterous person with a dagger. If they are in a battle pressed into tight formation, the dagger wielder can sneak in and get all stabby stabby as they do not have to hold onto a pike with one hand.
The obvious reason why the BA attack is only a D4 is because the back end presumably does not have a pointy bit and thus doesn't do as much damage. But if someone pokes a broom handle in you kidney, groin or teeth, I'd say you still probably think they wouldn't have. ;)
The flipping around part is not realistic, but fighting with a polearm and shield is quite effective and was used by real world hoplites / phalanx soldiers. If they could do it with a spear, there's no reason a fantasy hero can't do it with a quarterstaff.
The feat says nothing about "flipping around" but rather to attack with the back end. For example, as seen here. But yes, if you can do it with a spear you can do iit with a quarter staff.
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Hey,
So I'm a bit confused about this feat. It says as follows:
- While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff, or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
1st question: Does that mean 10ft? My reach is 10ft, so that should be the case, correct?
My 2nd question is about the regular opportunity attack. When a creature leaves my reach. What then? Is my reach still 10ft?
On my character page it says that the reach for my opportunity attack (Polearm master - opportunity attack) is just 5ft.
I have no idea. And on a sidenote, it also says that the bonus attack is just 5ft. So, anyone that knows more than me, please help!
Yes, 10 ft with most of those weapons (not the quarterstaff or spear.
Your reach is 10ft, you get one when they leave that. IF you have not already taken your reaction.
Do not trust D&D Beyond, it has lots of bugs and errors.
As mog pointed out, the quarterstaff and spear only have a reach of 5ft, the others have a reach of 10ft.
The way DDB works, these actions are added and defined by the feat, and have no way to check which weapon you have. It is a technical limitation, so you have to just read and follow the rules and correct the character sheet if needed.
If you are using a reach weapon, your OA will trigger at 10 feet.
I had a related question. I am using a quarterstaff, one handed, with a shield. Nothing in the feat description leads me to believe I cannot do this and I should still gain all the benefits of the feat. Somehow though it does not feel right? Can someone realistically wield a quarterstaff one handed with a shield in their off-hand and hit you effectively with both ends? Isn't the idea of a polearm to keep your enemies at bay and strike the first with your longer reach before they can engage. It feel the quarterstaff could definitely benefit from the bonus action attack if wielded two handed, regardless of range, but the opportunity attack seems like a stretch if they aren't considered reach weapons.
This came up because I liked playing pacifist clerics in V4 but there really is no such thing in V5 except perhaps the life cleric. I liked the idea of not making offensive attacks, but being able to defend myself if someone came at me with ill intent. This feat as a life cleric was the perfect fit for that concept.
Thoughts?
RAW, you absolutely can use the bonus action attack with a staff and shield or spear and shield. I get how it might seem weird conceptually, but I think it’s fine, and I’d object to a DM trying to house-rule it out.
yes, you can do it as written. No, I do not believe that it's even a little realistic.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
D&D combat isn’t the least bit realistic! In reality, both a quarterstaff and a spear should have “reach” and many of the others would have been too long to flip around like the feat describes at all!
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The flipping around part is not realistic, but fighting with a polearm and shield is quite effective and was used by real world hoplites / phalanx soldiers. If they could do it with a spear, there's no reason a fantasy hero can't do it with a quarterstaff.
Spears had sharp points to do damage with, quarterstaves do not. A quarterstaff relies on a solid bash in order to do it's damage.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It's entirely possible to do a stop thrust with a one-handed pole weapon (the reaction attack). I interpret the d4 bonus action attack as an offhand weapon attack and thus don't allow it with one-handed use, but RAW it's possible.
Sure, you can poke someone with the tip of a staff, but it's not going to do much. Poke someone one-handed with a /spear/ however and it's a much different level of penetration.
What I would consider is allowing the bonus action attack to be fluffed into a d4 shield bash. I might be able to get on board with that. What I struggle with are rules lawyers trying to shillelagh their way into a d8 one hander + the d4 bonus action with mods.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
That's just an argument for not allowing PAM with staff weapons at all. I think it's all because they were combining two different 3e sets of tricks: there were lots of opportunity attack tricks in 3e for reach weapons, and also there were feats that let you treat staffs (and other polearms?) as double weapons.
No, it's an argument against using pam tricks + shield. If you want to two hand crack someone in the face with a staff, that's going to hurt, and I have no problems with it. masters in medieval times often suggested that the Quarterstaff was possibly the most versatile weapon around. I'm totally on board with getting an attack when someone enters your reach, and also using the back end for a bonus action attack. I have zero problems there at all.
One handing it so you can benefit from a shield as well...not so much. That's where 100% of my problem lives at. if you want the benefits of pam, you forgo the shield. The rules say you can do it, but I would never allow someone at my table to do it. I am houseruling that with a vengeance. I'd allow the part of pam where they make an attack when someone enters reach with a 1h spear. No offhand action with that though if you're carrying a shield.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
To get PAM at first level I have to give up 4 ability points which is a steep price. Getting it later only costs 2 ability points. I dont like to game the point system though and prefer to create a unique character that does some special things and some other not so special things. I always play defensive character so giving up my shield bothers me more than giving up the 4 ability points. Not being a weapons expert by any stretch of the imagination, I was curious if my initial incredulity at the feasibility of using this feat with a staff and a shield was justified or if there are in fact martial artist who can and do use a staff one handed effectively. Monks come to mind, but again, I am far from an expert on this.
Thanks to all for your insights. If this virus thing ever ends and I can start playing in live groups, I'll have to have a discussion with our DM on this.
Also keep in mind that those four ability points you'd be giving up will be in abilities that are less relevant to you, whereas the two you give up later will be in abilities that are relevant to you. Comparing them solely numerically is not the best way to see which is the greater cost to you. If you're a STR fighter, two points of strength are much more valuable to you than one point each of dexterity, intelligence, wisdom, and charisma.
In point build terms it's generally going to be 4 points because they're mostly in dump stats, while ability score increases are almost always on high-value stats that would cost x2 or be entirely unavailable.
I don't agree that a spear and quarterstaff should have "Reach", they are between 5' and 6'. In order for them to have "Reach" you'd need to hold them by the very ends, you'd have no leverage or sustained pressure if you do that. Polearms are long and need two hands to use thus the "Reach" and being able to have leverage and sustained pressure to do damage. IMHO anyways!
A 5-6 foot spear is what D&D classes as javelin - probably the single most common weapon in history.
A D&D spear is more like a hoplite dorus and would be about 8-9 foot - they should have reach, especially if used two-handed but they don't which is sad because without it there's really no reason to upgrade from javelin.
Pikes are really sad in D&D they should have additional reach - 5 ranks of humans worth in reality (because real humans squash closer than 5 feet cubes) but 15 foot reach would approximate it and pretty much nothing within that - so great at stabbing at 10-15 feet away, a hindrance at 5 feet. As such it's a pretty useless weapon in D&D style skirmish combat - only one instance of a pike being used in a duel I'm aware of (and that may be a transcription error) - hire a pack of hirelings though and block a corridor with them!
Javelin - spear - pike are really just three lengths of spear: short one-handed; long one or two-handed; very long two-handed.
Polearms like halberds and glaives (and the myriad of other names which all boil down to either chop or stab) are heavy and unwieldy, you can't really use them one-handed at all but they do outreach a sword - used two-handed they can utilise a 'butt attack' fighting style, although that's probably more Hollywood than history - but in a skirmish like D&D combat seems fine. Popular with guards because they are good for crowd control and look badass, also handy for beating plate-armoured gentry senseless.
Quarterstaffs should absolutely be usable two-handed - it would be more common for it to get the 'butt attack' when used like that and it's the instinctive way to use one. Whether it would have reach is debatable, it'd need to be one-handed so probably not in D&D terms where reach is really outreaching a sword or similar with a meaningful strike. Two-handed staffs are wielded in order to block and attack with both ends, not at distance.
Most D&D weapons are not realistic. Do not get me started on ranged weapons and strength.
Pikes for example are nearly worthless as a weapon if it is just you. Too long, too hard to shift against a charging opponent.
They are however the perfect formation weapon for pre-gunpowder times. 25 trained pikemen in formation take little damage from normal ranged weapons, they hit the forest and stop. They basically kill any charging enemy without taking any damage. Same for most melee weapons - you get close enough with a sword or mace and you find you can't swing or maneuver. Easier for the pike men to stab you with a dagger.
Main weakness are
The feat says nothing about "flipping around" but rather to attack with the back end. For example, as seen here. But yes, if you can do it with a spear you can do iit with a quarter staff.