Let's say I take Magic Initiate at Level 1 (variant human non-wizard) and choose Find Familiar as my 1st-level spell. So at Level 1 I can cast Find Familiar once per long rest and it can't be cast as a ritual. Then, let's say I decide to multiclass into wizard. Can I then put Find Familiar in my spellbook as a ritual for my now multiclassed character? Or am I stuck with the Magic Initiate restrictions for the spell?
You can put the spell into your spellbook as one of the wizard spells you get from taking a level in that class or you could put it in your spellbook if you find it as a spell scroll. I would rule though that your version from magic initiate could not be added to your spellbook.
You can't have more than one familiar at a time. If you cast this spell while you already have a familiar, you instead cause it to adopt a new form. Choose one of the forms from the above list. Your familiar transforms into the chosen creature.
Nothing in the spell suggests that "casting the spell as a Wizard" or "casting the spell using a feat instead of a spell slot" creates any granularity, either way you're casing Find Familiar. If you don't have a familiar, casting it creates one. If you do have one, it adopts a new form. End of story.
You can't have more than one familiar at a time. If you cast this spell while you already have a familiar, you instead cause it to adopt a new form. Choose one of the forms from the above list. Your familiar transforms into the chosen creature.
Nothing in the spell suggests that "casting the spell as a Wizard" or "casting the spell using a feat instead of a spell slot" creates any granularity, either way you're casing Find Familiar. If you don't have a familiar, casting it creates one. If you do have one, it adopts a new form. End of story.
The text from the spell doesn't answer the question because you are not even answering the question asked.
If find familiar is taken via the Magic Initiate Feat - aka the spell is given to the player directly, not written in a book. If the PC then multiclasses to Wizard will Find familiar be in his spell book?
I would say the answer is no. Any spells learned outside of how wizards learn spells is not automatically placed in the spellbook. You can use your wizard spells slots to cast is I believe, but not the benefits of having the spell in the book. You'll have to find another copy of the spell written somewhere in order to transfer it to your book.
I would say the answer is no. Any spells learned outside of how wizards learn spells is not automatically placed in the spellbook. You can use your wizard spells slots to cast is I believe, but not the benefits of having the spell in the book. You'll have to find another copy of the spell written somewhere in order to transfer it to your book.
I don't know the feats well off the top of my head but I know multiclassing has always allowed you to use either slots given to cast any of the multiclass spells so I assumed it would work similar.
The rules allow a precedent to copy the wizard spells you have "prepared" into a spellbook (when creating a new book after losing one). RAW, the magic initiate spell is not officially "prepared" according to wizard rules. However, it is both "known" and castable. That status would allow it to be ritual cast by any other ritual-casting class (if the initiate class matched the main caster class).
By that argument, I would decide that it is fair to allow the magic initiate spell to be scribed into the book as if it were a prepared spell being scribed into a new spellbook. Regular cost would apply to balance any other wizard advantages.
The rules allow a precedent to copy the wizard spells you have "prepared" into a spellbook (when creating a new book after losing one). RAW, the magic initiate spell is not officially "prepared" according to wizard rules. However, it is both "known" and castable. That status would allow it to be ritual cast by any other ritual-casting class (if the initiate class matched the main caster class).
By that argument, I would decide that it is fair to allow the magic initiate spell to be scribed into the book as if it were a prepared spell being scribed into a new spellbook. Regular cost would apply to balance any other wizard advantages.
yes other classes can ritual cast if they have the spell prepared, however Wizards ritual casting specifically says you need to have the spell in your spellbook. Also ritual casters (feat) also require the book to be in hand. So what other classes can do isn't in question because OP wants to multi class into wizard.
I agree I think I'd allow it to be copied into a new book - I do agree with that.
Putting aside that I misunderstood the question with my first post, this question is something I've grappled with in the past.
First of all, it's good to look at the specific language of the class features, and not just how you think you understand them working:
Learning Spells of 1st Level and Higher
Each time you gain a wizard level, you can add two wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook for free. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table. On your adventures, you might find other spells that you can add to your spellbook (see the “Your Spellbook” sidebar).
YOUR SPELLBOOK
The spells that you add to your spellbook as you gain levels reflect the arcane research you conduct on your own, as well as intellectual breakthroughs you have had about the nature of the multiverse.You might findother spells during your adventures. You could discover a spell recorded on a scroll in an evil wizard’s chest, for example, or in a dusty tome in an ancient library.
Copying a Spell into the Book.When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying that spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other spells.
Replacing the Book.You can copy a spell from your own spellbook into another book—for example, if you want to make a backup copy of your spellbook. This is just like copying a new spell into your spellbook, but faster and easier, since you understand your own notation and already know how to cast the spell. You need spend only 1 hour and 10 gp for each level of the copied spell.
If you lose your spellbook, you can use the same procedure to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook. Filling out the remainder of your spellbook requires you to find new spells to do so, as normal. For this reason, many wizards keep backup spellbooks in a safe place.
Color coded to split the three different ways that spells get added to books.
First, Spells you gain at level up just pop into there, no cost or time prepared, the only requirement being that it be one of two level-appropriate Wizard spells chosen at the time of each level up. Are the spells granted by Magic Initiate (Wizard) "wizard spells for a level which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table?" No, they're something else, so they don't get into the book that way.
Second, Spells you copy when found, which cost gold value resources and time, the requirement being that (1) you have "found" it, and (2) that it be a Wizard spell of 1st level or higher, and (3) that it be of a level for which you can prepare (i.e. of a level for which you have spell slots according to Wizard table), and (4) that you spend 2 hours and 50 gp of materials per spell level. Have you "found" a spell which you have "learned" but not written down? Hmmmm not really, not in the way that that word is usually used? (2)-(4) are easy enough to satisfy, "copying" can equally mean copying from a source or copying from memory... but "found"? That's a major linguistic hurdle for me, nothing in Magic Initiate says that you have "found" a spell, and the examples provided in the Spellbook section (scroll, tome) are of tangible written records. For my vote, No, they don't get into the spellbook merely because you have "learned" or "can cast" them from another class or source, unless you're looking at them in some written format.
Third, spells you have "prepared" can be copied from memory, again using time/gp cost to do so. This specifically requires spells "prepared," not spells "known" or "learned" or any other similar sounding concept. Magic Intiate does not "prepare" any spells. Known-spell-casters (Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Rangers, Paladins, EKs, ATs) don't "prepare" spells either, they simply "know" or "learn" them. Racial spells aren't prepared either, whether by default or by racial feat, the race is simply granted the ability to cast them a certain number of times per rest. Clerics, Druids, and Artificers do "prepare" spells however, so a Wizard should have no trouble copying one of their Cleric/Druid/Artificer spells from memory, if it is also a Wizard spell and meets the other level requirements, or copying any Wizard spells they currently have prepared. No, you can't spellbook a spell that you haven't "prepared."
Hope that clears that up. WIzards copy spells into their books in one of three ways (level up, "found", or "prepared"), and Magic Initiate doesn't meet any of those three requirements.
I haven't seen anyone addressing this point yet: If you're going to MC into Wizard anyway, don't bother with taking Magic Initiate... just pick Find Familiar as one of your initial spells when you take that level in Wizard, or find a scroll and copy it in that way.
I don't think there's a single DM in existence that would say "Yeah, **** them. If they didn't take it to begin with, I'm never letting them find a scroll."
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks for all the great replies!!! Sounds like Find Familiar (via Magic Initiate) wouldn't transfer (after multiclassing) to a wizard's spellbook. However, it could still be cast as a non-ritual once per long rest (after multiclassing into wizard). If the spell was then found in written form during adventuring, it could be added to the wizard's spellbook (making the Magic Initiate version obsolete).
I'm pretty set on taking Magic Initiate at Level 1. My character's backstory involves being torn between staying with the family tradition (knowledge cleric) or following a different path. The character is exceptionally intelligent (with high wisdom as well) and begrudgingly becomes a knowledge cleric to appease his family. But he has a secret apprenticeship with a local wizard (hence Magic Initiate). Long story short, he decides to adventure to find his true calling. Not sure yet if he'll realize that being a knowledge cleric is pretty awesome (no wizard dip) or if he'll long for more arcane magic (wizard dip).
For Magic Initiate I see the character learning quintessential wizard spells during his apprenticeship ... perhaps Prestidigitation, Fire Bolt, and Find Familiar. However, I'm open to suggestions for a different quintessential cantrips and 1st-level wizard spell. Now it seems like the 1st-level spell shouldn't be a ritual (because the ritual option wouldn't kick in after multiclassing wizard) and shouldn't scale (because it can only be cast at 1st level so upcasting would be wasted)? Any good ideas??
Thanks for all the great replies!!! Sounds like Find Familiar (via Magic Initiate) wouldn't transfer (after multiclassing) to a wizard's spellbook. However, it could still be cast as a non-ritual once per long rest (after multiclassing into wizard). If the spell was then found in written form during adventuring, it could be added to the wizard's spellbook (making the Magic Initiate version obsolete).
I'm pretty set on taking Magic Initiate at Level 1. My character's backstory involves being torn between staying with the family tradition (knowledge cleric) or following a different path. The character is exceptionally intelligent (with high wisdom as well) and begrudgingly becomes a knowledge cleric to appease his family. But he has a secret apprenticeship with a local wizard (hence Magic Initiate). Long story short, he decides to adventure to find his true calling. Not sure yet if he'll realize that being a knowledge cleric is pretty awesome (no wizard dip) or if he'll long for more arcane magic (wizard dip).
For Magic Initiate I see the character learning quintessential wizard spells during his apprenticeship ... perhaps Prestidigitation, Fire Bolt, and Find Familiar. However, I'm open to suggestions for a different quintessential cantrips and 1st-level wizard spell. Now it seems like the 1st-level spell shouldn't be a ritual (because the ritual option wouldn't kick in after multiclassing wizard) and shouldn't scale (because it can only be cast at 1st level so upcasting would be wasted)? Any good ideas??
Random thought on your backstory: you could also spin that as begrudgingly becoming a Cleric, but not a Knowledge Domain one; you could really be an Arcana Domain Cleric that pretends to be Knowledge Domain in social situations. It's not even a stretch either as many of the individual Gods correspond to both of those Domains. ;)
[edit] As for your 1st level spell if you do take Magic Initiate... I'd suggest Shield. Having that as a free cast once per day is super useful even if you later learn it as a Wizard.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Don't know... But begrudgingly and cleric does not ring well with me. In my opinion, you do not get powers from your god, when you are not fully devoted to his cause.
I would second the idea that you start with knowledge or arcana domain and then just further your arcane skills during your studies.
But that is just me and might be different in other gaming worlds.
Let's say I take Magic Initiate at Level 1 (variant human non-wizard) and choose Find Familiar as my 1st-level spell. So at Level 1 I can cast Find Familiar once per long rest and it can't be cast as a ritual. Then, let's say I decide to multiclass into wizard. Can I then put Find Familiar in my spellbook as a ritual for my now multiclassed character? Or am I stuck with the Magic Initiate restrictions for the spell?
Putting aside any character motivations and speaking just to the mechanics, I believe the only sources a Wizard can use to transcribe a spell into their spellbook are another Wizard's spellbook or a spell scroll. So if you wanted to put it in your spellbook, I believe you'd first have to use your 1 daily casting of the spell to transcribe it to a spell scroll, and then transcribe it AGAIN, from the scroll into your spellbook.
Let's say I take Magic Initiate at Level 1 (variant human non-wizard) and choose Find Familiar as my 1st-level spell. So at Level 1 I can cast Find Familiar once per long rest and it can't be cast as a ritual. Then, let's say I decide to multiclass into wizard. Can I then put Find Familiar in my spellbook as a ritual for my now multiclassed character? Or am I stuck with the Magic Initiate restrictions for the spell?
Putting aside any character motivations and speaking just to the mechanics, I believe the only sources a Wizard can use to transcribe a spell into their spellbook are another Wizard's spellbook or a spell scroll. So if you wanted to put it in your spellbook, I believe you'd first have to use your 1 daily casting of the spell to transcribe it to a spell scroll, and then transcribe it AGAIN, from the scroll into your spellbook.
That's correct, as having the spell either known or prepared fulfills the requirement.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Known does not fit the requirement, see quoted text above.
We're not talking about transcribing to the spellbook. We're talking about scribing the spell scroll, and that can be done with the spell simply being known.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat?
Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
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Personally, I see no reason to say no. It's nothing big if they can.
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Let's say I take Magic Initiate at Level 1 (variant human non-wizard) and choose Find Familiar as my 1st-level spell. So at Level 1 I can cast Find Familiar once per long rest and it can't be cast as a ritual. Then, let's say I decide to multiclass into wizard. Can I then put Find Familiar in my spellbook as a ritual for my now multiclassed character? Or am I stuck with the Magic Initiate restrictions for the spell?
You can put the spell into your spellbook as one of the wizard spells you get from taking a level in that class or you could put it in your spellbook if you find it as a spell scroll. I would rule though that your version from magic initiate could not be added to your spellbook.
The text of the spell answers this for you:
Nothing in the spell suggests that "casting the spell as a Wizard" or "casting the spell using a feat instead of a spell slot" creates any granularity, either way you're casing Find Familiar. If you don't have a familiar, casting it creates one. If you do have one, it adopts a new form. End of story.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The text from the spell doesn't answer the question because you are not even answering the question asked.
If find familiar is taken via the Magic Initiate Feat - aka the spell is given to the player directly, not written in a book. If the PC then multiclasses to Wizard will Find familiar be in his spell book?
I would say the answer is no. Any spells learned outside of how wizards learn spells is not automatically placed in the spellbook. You can use your wizard spells slots to cast is I believe, but not the benefits of having the spell in the book. You'll have to find another copy of the spell written somewhere in order to transfer it to your book.
I think you've got it right.
I don't know the feats well off the top of my head but I know multiclassing has always allowed you to use either slots given to cast any of the multiclass spells so I assumed it would work similar.
The rules allow a precedent to copy the wizard spells you have "prepared" into a spellbook (when creating a new book after losing one). RAW, the magic initiate spell is not officially "prepared" according to wizard rules. However, it is both "known" and castable. That status would allow it to be ritual cast by any other ritual-casting class (if the initiate class matched the main caster class).
By that argument, I would decide that it is fair to allow the magic initiate spell to be scribed into the book as if it were a prepared spell being scribed into a new spellbook. Regular cost would apply to balance any other wizard advantages.
I truly misunderstood the question, my bad.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
yes other classes can ritual cast if they have the spell prepared, however Wizards ritual casting specifically says you need to have the spell in your spellbook. Also ritual casters (feat) also require the book to be in hand. So what other classes can do isn't in question because OP wants to multi class into wizard.
I agree I think I'd allow it to be copied into a new book - I do agree with that.
Putting aside that I misunderstood the question with my first post, this question is something I've grappled with in the past.
First of all, it's good to look at the specific language of the class features, and not just how you think you understand them working:
Color coded to split the three different ways that spells get added to books.
First, Spells you gain at level up just pop into there, no cost or time prepared, the only requirement being that it be one of two level-appropriate Wizard spells chosen at the time of each level up. Are the spells granted by Magic Initiate (Wizard) "wizard spells for a level which you have spell slots, as shown on the Wizard table?" No, they're something else, so they don't get into the book that way.
Second, Spells you copy when found, which cost gold value resources and time, the requirement being that (1) you have "found" it, and (2) that it be a Wizard spell of 1st level or higher, and (3) that it be of a level for which you can prepare (i.e. of a level for which you have spell slots according to Wizard table), and (4) that you spend 2 hours and 50 gp of materials per spell level. Have you "found" a spell which you have "learned" but not written down? Hmmmm not really, not in the way that that word is usually used? (2)-(4) are easy enough to satisfy, "copying" can equally mean copying from a source or copying from memory... but "found"? That's a major linguistic hurdle for me, nothing in Magic Initiate says that you have "found" a spell, and the examples provided in the Spellbook section (scroll, tome) are of tangible written records. For my vote, No, they don't get into the spellbook merely because you have "learned" or "can cast" them from another class or source, unless you're looking at them in some written format.
Third, spells you have "prepared" can be copied from memory, again using time/gp cost to do so. This specifically requires spells "prepared," not spells "known" or "learned" or any other similar sounding concept. Magic Intiate does not "prepare" any spells. Known-spell-casters (Bards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Rangers, Paladins, EKs, ATs) don't "prepare" spells either, they simply "know" or "learn" them. Racial spells aren't prepared either, whether by default or by racial feat, the race is simply granted the ability to cast them a certain number of times per rest. Clerics, Druids, and Artificers do "prepare" spells however, so a Wizard should have no trouble copying one of their Cleric/Druid/Artificer spells from memory, if it is also a Wizard spell and meets the other level requirements, or copying any Wizard spells they currently have prepared. No, you can't spellbook a spell that you haven't "prepared."
Hope that clears that up. WIzards copy spells into their books in one of three ways (level up, "found", or "prepared"), and Magic Initiate doesn't meet any of those three requirements.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I haven't seen anyone addressing this point yet: If you're going to MC into Wizard anyway, don't bother with taking Magic Initiate... just pick Find Familiar as one of your initial spells when you take that level in Wizard, or find a scroll and copy it in that way.
I don't think there's a single DM in existence that would say "Yeah, **** them. If they didn't take it to begin with, I'm never letting them find a scroll."
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Also, if you aren't going to multiclass into a wizard, I'd take the ritual caster feat, not magic initiate.
Thanks for all the great replies!!! Sounds like Find Familiar (via Magic Initiate) wouldn't transfer (after multiclassing) to a wizard's spellbook. However, it could still be cast as a non-ritual once per long rest (after multiclassing into wizard). If the spell was then found in written form during adventuring, it could be added to the wizard's spellbook (making the Magic Initiate version obsolete).
I'm pretty set on taking Magic Initiate at Level 1. My character's backstory involves being torn between staying with the family tradition (knowledge cleric) or following a different path. The character is exceptionally intelligent (with high wisdom as well) and begrudgingly becomes a knowledge cleric to appease his family. But he has a secret apprenticeship with a local wizard (hence Magic Initiate). Long story short, he decides to adventure to find his true calling. Not sure yet if he'll realize that being a knowledge cleric is pretty awesome (no wizard dip) or if he'll long for more arcane magic (wizard dip).
For Magic Initiate I see the character learning quintessential wizard spells during his apprenticeship ... perhaps Prestidigitation, Fire Bolt, and Find Familiar. However, I'm open to suggestions for a different quintessential cantrips and 1st-level wizard spell. Now it seems like the 1st-level spell shouldn't be a ritual (because the ritual option wouldn't kick in after multiclassing wizard) and shouldn't scale (because it can only be cast at 1st level so upcasting would be wasted)? Any good ideas??
Random thought on your backstory: you could also spin that as begrudgingly becoming a Cleric, but not a Knowledge Domain one; you could really be an Arcana Domain Cleric that pretends to be Knowledge Domain in social situations. It's not even a stretch either as many of the individual Gods correspond to both of those Domains. ;)
[edit] As for your 1st level spell if you do take Magic Initiate... I'd suggest Shield. Having that as a free cast once per day is super useful even if you later learn it as a Wizard.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Don't know... But begrudgingly and cleric does not ring well with me. In my opinion, you do not get powers from your god, when you are not fully devoted to his cause.
I would second the idea that you start with knowledge or arcana domain and then just further your arcane skills during your studies.
But that is just me and might be different in other gaming worlds.
Putting aside any character motivations and speaking just to the mechanics, I believe the only sources a Wizard can use to transcribe a spell into their spellbook are another Wizard's spellbook or a spell scroll. So if you wanted to put it in your spellbook, I believe you'd first have to use your 1 daily casting of the spell to transcribe it to a spell scroll, and then transcribe it AGAIN, from the scroll into your spellbook.
That's correct, as having the spell either known or prepared fulfills the requirement.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Known does not fit the requirement, see quoted text above.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
We're not talking about transcribing to the spellbook. We're talking about scribing the spell scroll, and that can be done with the spell simply being known.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
For what it may be worth:
Sage Advice (with emphasis added):
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Personally, I see no reason to say no. It's nothing big if they can.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.