Yeah, I do realize now, that I had a completely different wording for spells like firebolt and shocking grasp in mind that just says, the spell is a spell attack, I reread and I confirm, that the wording is the same.
Mea culpa. My bad for mixing this up.
So yeah, RAW totally works... even though Mr. Crawford disagrees on melee spells... (see above)
Crawford does not disagree. If you're referring to the Sage Advice tweet linked above (and here), then you're still not grasping the context. He is talking about touch spells, not "melee spells".
Shocking Grasp is a touch spell; the range is literally "touch". Spell Sniper does not apply to this because it does not have a range increment. It's a very specific type.
Booming Blade (and the other SCAG cantrips, which are the focus of this thread) have a range of 5 feet. This is a discrete range increment that can and does benefit from Spell Sniper.
You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
Yeah, I do realize now, that I had a completely different wording for spells like firebolt and shocking grasp in mind that just says, the spell is a spell attack, I reread and I confirm, that the wording is the same.
Mea culpa. My bad for mixing this up.
So yeah, RAW totally works... even though Mr. Crawford disagrees on melee spells... (see above)
Crawford does not disagree. If you're referring to the Sage Advice tweet linked above (and here), then you're still not grasping the context. He is talking about touch spells, not "melee spells".
Shocking Grasp is a touch spell; the range is literally "touch". Spell Sniper does not apply to this because it does not have a range increment. It's a very specific type.
Booming Blade (and the other SCAG cantrips, which are the focus of this thread) have a range of 5 feet. This is a discrete range increment that can and does benefit from Spell Sniper.
You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
If you take the Spell Sniper feat, then yes, you can attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon.
[edit]If you do not have Spell Sniper, then no, you cannot attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon. You are limited by the range of the spell itself above all other conditions. Without Spell Sniper, you can use a SCAG cantrip at 5' with any melee weapon. With Spell Sniper, you can use SCAG cantrips at 5' with any melee weapon, and you can use SCAG cantrips at 10' if you are using a Reach weapon.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Yeah, I do realize now, that I had a completely different wording for spells like firebolt and shocking grasp in mind that just says, the spell is a spell attack, I reread and I confirm, that the wording is the same.
Mea culpa. My bad for mixing this up.
So yeah, RAW totally works... even though Mr. Crawford disagrees on melee spells... (see above)
Crawford does not disagree. If you're referring to the Sage Advice tweet linked above (and here), then you're still not grasping the context. He is talking about touch spells, not "melee spells".
Shocking Grasp is a touch spell; the range is literally "touch". Spell Sniper does not apply to this because it does not have a range increment. It's a very specific type.
Booming Blade (and the other SCAG cantrips, which are the focus of this thread) have a range of 5 feet. This is a discrete range increment that can and does benefit from Spell Sniper.
You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
If you take the Spell Sniper feat, then yes, you can attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon.
If you take spell sniper, I assume I can also attack a target 10 ft. away with a normal non-reach melee weapon? Seems all in all really not that logical at all for me. Especially, because you do basic weapon damage.
Seemingly, even if I user spell sniper for booming blade, attacking with a long sword, will still require me to have a target within 5 ft. because else, I cannot do a melee weapon attack.
Yes, that’s exactly correct. Spell Sniper doesn’t extend your reach, and the Reach weapon property doesn’t extend the range of any spells. You need both to GFB at 10 feet.
Yeah, I do realize now, that I had a completely different wording for spells like firebolt and shocking grasp in mind that just says, the spell is a spell attack, I reread and I confirm, that the wording is the same.
Mea culpa. My bad for mixing this up.
So yeah, RAW totally works... even though Mr. Crawford disagrees on melee spells... (see above)
Crawford does not disagree. If you're referring to the Sage Advice tweet linked above (and here), then you're still not grasping the context. He is talking about touch spells, not "melee spells".
Shocking Grasp is a touch spell; the range is literally "touch". Spell Sniper does not apply to this because it does not have a range increment. It's a very specific type.
Booming Blade (and the other SCAG cantrips, which are the focus of this thread) have a range of 5 feet. This is a discrete range increment that can and does benefit from Spell Sniper.
You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
If you take the Spell Sniper feat, then yes, you can attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon.
If you take spell sniper, I assume I can also attack a target 10 ft. away with a normal non-reach melee weapon? Seems all in all really not that logical at all for me. Especially, because you do basic weapon damage.
Seemingly, even if I user spell sniper for booming blade, attacking with a long sword, will still require me to have a target within 5 ft. because else, I cannot do a melee weapon attack.
Yes, there are two practical limits to the SCAG cantrips ranges: Spell Range (5 ft, 10 ft with spell Sniper) and weapon range (5 ft, 10 ft with reach weapon). Therefore, you are limited to 5 ft unless you have both spell Sniper and a reach weapon. That combo will allow you to make attacks with the cantrips at either 5 ft or 10 ft.
Yeah, I do realize now, that I had a completely different wording for spells like firebolt and shocking grasp in mind that just says, the spell is a spell attack, I reread and I confirm, that the wording is the same.
Mea culpa. My bad for mixing this up.
So yeah, RAW totally works... even though Mr. Crawford disagrees on melee spells... (see above)
Crawford does not disagree. If you're referring to the Sage Advice tweet linked above (and here), then you're still not grasping the context. He is talking about touch spells, not "melee spells".
Shocking Grasp is a touch spell; the range is literally "touch". Spell Sniper does not apply to this because it does not have a range increment. It's a very specific type.
Booming Blade (and the other SCAG cantrips, which are the focus of this thread) have a range of 5 feet. This is a discrete range increment that can and does benefit from Spell Sniper.
You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
If you take the Spell Sniper feat, then yes, you can attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon.
If you take spell sniper, I assume I can also attack a target 10 ft. away with a normal non-reach melee weapon? Seems all in all really not that logical at all for me. Especially, because you do basic weapon damage.
Seemingly, even if I user spell sniper for booming blade, attacking with a long sword, will still require me to have a target within 5 ft. because else, I cannot do a melee weapon attack.
Correct, it's a two-step process. You're limited by the range of the spell itself above everything (5' default, 10' with SS), and you are limited by the reach of the specific weapon you are using. Longsword is always 5' reach (unless you're a bugbear), so Spell Sniper does not really give you an advantage without having a weapon that also has a 10' reach.
SS & SCAGs with a polearm is a pretty sick combo if you can get all of that together, but it is an investment. Honorable mention to dual-wielding a Whip & Spear with War Caster & PAM, in addition to Spell Sniper. Lots of OAs that you can convert to piling a SCAG cantrip on top. ;p
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would allow you to use Spell Sniper to use a reach weapon with Green flame Blade ans similar spells. It is not overpowered. Not sure if I would be House Ruling, but it seems totally reasonable
I would allow you to use Spell Sniper to use a reach weapon with Green flame Blade ans similar spells. It is not overpowered. Not sure if I would be House Ruling, but it seems totally reasonable
That works, as we just dissected here. That does not need house ruling. Reach + GFB + Spell Sniper is totally valid.
It only requires an attack roll. An attack roll is any means of damaging an opponent which physically requires you to roll dice to determine whether or not they hit. Booming blade is a spell by its very definition as a cantrip. It also makes an attack roll, as evidenced by the wording of Booming blade. Therefore spell sniper would be applicable to booming blade and green flame blade
It only requires an attack roll. An attack roll is any means of damaging an opponent which physically requires you to roll dice to determine whether or not they hit. Booming blade is a spell by its very definition as a cantrip. It also makes an attack roll, as evidenced by the wording of Booming blade. Therefore spell sniper would be applicable to booming blade and green flame blade
This is no longer true as of the errata. Green-Flame Blade now has a range of "Self", so doubling it doesn't change anything.
It only requires an attack roll. An attack roll is any means of damaging an opponent which physically requires you to roll dice to determine whether or not they hit. Booming blade is a spell by its very definition as a cantrip. It also makes an attack roll, as evidenced by the wording of Booming blade. Therefore spell sniper would be applicable to booming blade and green flame blade
This is no longer true as of the errata. Green-Flame Blade now has a range of "Self", so doubling it doesn't change anything.
Considering the G-FB and BB should apply to reach weapons by default …. 🙄
It only requires an attack roll. An attack roll is any means of damaging an opponent which physically requires you to roll dice to determine whether or not they hit. Booming blade is a spell by its very definition as a cantrip. It also makes an attack roll, as evidenced by the wording of Booming blade. Therefore spell sniper would be applicable to booming blade and green flame blade
This is no longer true as of the errata. Green-Flame Blade now has a range of "Self", so doubling it doesn't change anything.
Considering the G-FB and BB should apply to reach weapons by default …. 🙄
They should also work with all of the following, but do not:
Unarmed Strikes (it could never do this, for no good reason, since it used to work on Natural Weapons) - not weapons
Torches (it could also never do this, but it has always worked on clubs) - not melee, even if improvised
War Caster (victim of stopping Distant and Twinned Spell metamagics from working on it) - War Caster can't be used with AOEs
Victims of the 1 sp bugbear, where I don't even know what they were trying to stop, the free version had literally no exploits:
The majority of this thread was written before the errata and TCE, so we have to understand the discussions of how the spell works in the context of the time when the posts were written.
I would suggest that it still works, even with the change to "self", as "self" is actually written as "Self (5 ft )" in the RAW, so it is still giving a 5ft range. Given that Crawford already verified that Spell Sniper would extend the range to 10ft while using reach weapons for spells like GFB and BB (Here), it seems like we should still lean to that ruling, even with the wording change. Self suggests the PC and anything it's holding, the 5ft in parentheses defines the actual spell range.
I don't think it would be broken to simply let the spell be allowed to function simply based on the reach of the weapon being used to make the attack. Few people who can cast it are going to be lacking options that can hit harder over a wider group than that anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would tend to agree with you. The only hangup I could potentially see regarding balance, is that hitting a creature from 10ft away with booming blade, would force it to move to be able to attack you (assuming it doesn't have reach). Thus it would make the monster move every time potentially. But that seems so insignificant.
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You are right, I didn't really read the Sage Advice, because I do not like the contradictions often found there. In this case it seems ok'ish.
Do I see this right, btw., that I cannot attack an enemy that is 10 ft. away with booming blade using a Glaive, because the spell says the target needs to be within the spells range? Seems also kind of weird...
If you take the Spell Sniper feat, then yes, you can attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon.
[edit]If you do not have Spell Sniper, then no, you cannot attack an enemy at 10ft with a SCAG cantrip using a Reach weapon. You are limited by the range of the spell itself above all other conditions. Without Spell Sniper, you can use a SCAG cantrip at 5' with any melee weapon. With Spell Sniper, you can use SCAG cantrips at 5' with any melee weapon, and you can use SCAG cantrips at 10' if you are using a Reach weapon.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
If you take spell sniper, I assume
I can also attack a target 10 ft. away with a normal non-reach melee weapon? Seems all in all really not that logical at all for me. Especially, because you do basic weapon damage.Seemingly, even if I user spell sniper for booming blade, attacking with a long sword, will still require me to have a target within 5 ft. because else, I cannot do a melee weapon attack.
Yes, that’s exactly correct. Spell Sniper doesn’t extend your reach, and the Reach weapon property doesn’t extend the range of any spells. You need both to GFB at 10 feet.
Yes, there are two practical limits to the SCAG cantrips ranges: Spell Range (5 ft, 10 ft with spell Sniper) and weapon range (5 ft, 10 ft with reach weapon). Therefore, you are limited to 5 ft unless you have both spell Sniper and a reach weapon. That combo will allow you to make attacks with the cantrips at either 5 ft or 10 ft.
Correct, it's a two-step process. You're limited by the range of the spell itself above everything (5' default, 10' with SS), and you are limited by the reach of the specific weapon you are using. Longsword is always 5' reach (unless you're a bugbear), so Spell Sniper does not really give you an advantage without having a weapon that also has a 10' reach.
SS & SCAGs with a polearm is a pretty sick combo if you can get all of that together, but it is an investment. Honorable mention to dual-wielding a Whip & Spear with War Caster & PAM, in addition to Spell Sniper. Lots of OAs that you can convert to piling a SCAG cantrip on top. ;p
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I would allow you to use Spell Sniper to use a reach weapon with Green flame Blade ans similar spells. It is not overpowered. Not sure if I would be House Ruling, but it seems totally reasonable
That works, as we just dissected here. That does not need house ruling. Reach + GFB + Spell Sniper is totally valid.
It only requires an attack roll. An attack roll is any means of damaging an opponent which physically requires you to roll dice to determine whether or not they hit. Booming blade is a spell by its very definition as a cantrip. It also makes an attack roll, as evidenced by the wording of Booming blade. Therefore spell sniper would be applicable to booming blade and green flame blade
This is no longer true as of the errata. Green-Flame Blade now has a range of "Self", so doubling it doesn't change anything.
Considering the G-FB and BB should apply to reach weapons by default …. 🙄
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They should also work with all of the following, but do not:
So what can you do? *shrug*
Honestly I’m okay with them not working with Warcaster as Reactions, I personally think that was my buddy Steve O’s favorite pizza. (Extra Cheese.)
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The majority of this thread was written before the errata and TCE, so we have to understand the discussions of how the spell works in the context of the time when the posts were written.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I would suggest that it still works, even with the change to "self", as "self" is actually written as "Self (5 ft )" in the RAW, so it is still giving a 5ft range. Given that Crawford already verified that Spell Sniper would extend the range to 10ft while using reach weapons for spells like GFB and BB (Here), it seems like we should still lean to that ruling, even with the wording change. Self suggests the PC and anything it's holding, the 5ft in parentheses defines the actual spell range.
I don't think it would be broken to simply let the spell be allowed to function simply based on the reach of the weapon being used to make the attack. Few people who can cast it are going to be lacking options that can hit harder over a wider group than that anyway.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would tend to agree with you. The only hangup I could potentially see regarding balance, is that hitting a creature from 10ft away with booming blade, would force it to move to be able to attack you (assuming it doesn't have reach). Thus it would make the monster move every time potentially. But that seems so insignificant.