A free interaction can draw or stow a blade. So if you can draw or stow two blades, that is normally two interactions which requires an action.
The question is, does this feat create a second separate interaction since RAW would normally do this as an action? Or does this feat make a free interaction have two targets? So does the action become an interaction or interaction get two targets? The interaction getting two targets seems completely unlike anything in RAW, and action becoming a second interaction flows with already established mechanics since DMs can already rule some interaction as free or action.
It makes a free interaction have two targets. It also makes a non-free interaction have two targets (i.e. if you open a door, using your free object interact, and then draw weapons using your action, you can draw two weapons). Adding additional targets to actions happens multiple times in raw (e.g. twin spell).
Actions have multiple targets, but what free interaction has two targets?
If drawing two weapons is normally a free interaction and action, then this feat should be making the action a second interaction. (This makes sense mechanically since actions and interactions can be interpreted differently by DMs in RAW).
And is this a spell? No, so that's entirely irrelevant.
Go back to my post #34 on page 2.
Free interaction terminology is defined in the basic rules. It is a general rule that applies to everyone.
The Dual Wielder feat is notlacking specificity. It does not say anything about free interaction terminology because it has no effect on the number of free interactions you can take in a turn--it's still only one.
What you're doing here is a combination of the fallacies of appealing to ignorance, begging the question, and confirmation bias. You're injecting a perceived lack of specificity in the feat as evidence of your predetermined conclusion, while ignoring the very real evidence which clearly disproves your claim.
Bullet #3 of Dual Wielder is very specific about what it does--when you would use your one free object interaction to either draw or stow one weapon, you can instead either draw or stow two weapons.
Not for nothing, but the Free Object Interaction rules don't say that you have one free object interaction per turn. They say that you can freely interact with one object per turn:
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
As written, you'd almost be forgiven for thinking that you could draw and stow the same sword multiple times in a round for free, because it's only one object that you're interacting with.
Free object interaction is also described in a couple other places in the same chapter, here and here, but those also don't actually say that you only have one "free object interaction."
This insistance that you only have one "free object interaction" seems to be a (reasonable) but unwritten inference. The rules are actually framed that you can freely interact with one weapon, no matter how many times. Which would imply that Dual Wielder lets you freely interact with two weapons, no matter how many times.
Two free interactions seems to line up with mechanics
No, it doesn't. You are willfully ignoring factual evidence that disproves your invalidly predetermined conclusion.
In full context of my statement, I'm presenting the evidence.
RAW gives DMs decision on a free interaction becoming an action. We also know that drawing a weapon is a free interaction. We know that the feat let's you draw two weapons, which would normally be a interaction and action. So the feat is turning the action into a second free interaction.
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
Like I said... these are pretty novel takes on Dual Wielder, which I’ve only ever seen come up in the context of nerfing two weapon fighting even harder, and never in the context of using the feat for crossbow experts, spellcasters needing to free up hands, thrown weapon users... its pretty routine to treat the feat as “you have two free object interactions.” I’m not going to touch the grammar jazz, I don’t know the right terms to use,, but to my ear “you can do this to two things, when you would normally only be able to do it to one” doesn’t imply a simultaneous timing restriction, or that the two things can’t be the same thing two different times.
It has never once occurred to me to interpret that wording of Dual Wielder as “You have two free object interactions” as it does not say that.
I have only ever read it to mean “If you could draw a one-handed weapon, you could instead draw two as part of the same item interaction. If you could stow a one-handed weapon, you can instead stow two as part of the same item interaction.” (Note the lack of necessitating that either weapon be a melee weapon.)
You could also draw and stow at the same time, since it's a touch silly to say each hand can draw and each hand can stow, but I can't have one draw and the other stow. It doesn't help for the timing of two weapon fighting, but should be possible. It should also be possible to stow one weapon and draw another with the same hand (for those of us that can't pat our heads and rub our tummies at the same time).
I could see that, but it’s still technically a houserule, and not RAW.
It could be RAW since RAW is vague in not using specific terminology. It is a House Rule to add opinions to limit a feat when RAW is vague and doesn't list such specific limitations.
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
Right here:
Your Turn
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. Your speed — sometimes called your walking speed — is noted on your character sheet.
The most common actions you can take are described in the "Actions in Combat" section later in this chapter. Many class features and other abilities provide additional options for your action.
The "Movement and Position" section later in this chapter gives the rules for your move.
You can forgo moving, taking an action, or doing anything at all on your turn. If you can't decide what to do on your turn, consider taking the Dodge or Readyaction, as described in "Actions in Combat."
Bonus Actions
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
Reactions
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
Or is your argument hinging on the phrase “a second object” and that since it is the same object repeatedly you can draw or stow that weapon an infinite number of times.
If that’s the case then I am done with this conversation.
The assumption that the rules were written to require they only do so once is one that I myself share, but it isn't actually written anywhere in the text, and may well have just been lazy reading on my part. I think when we go back to square 0, and look at the language that was actually written in these sections, it strongly supports framing the normal/Dual Wielder scenario as: normally you can draw/sheathe one weapon while doing other stuff on your turn for free; with Dual Wielder, you can draw/sheathe two weapons while doing other stuff on your turn for free.
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
You only get to do it for free as part of your attack. You only get one action.
"Such as". You can also do it while moving, as you can see here. And as you may make several attacks in an Attack Action, what stops you from doing it each time you attack? And when you attack with a Bonus Action?
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack.
You only get to do it for free as part of your attack. You only get one action.
Or you could instead do it as part of your move instead:
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
"Such as". You can also do it while moving, as you can see here. And as you may make several attacks in an Attack Action, what stops you from doing it each time you attack? And when you attack with a Bonus Action?
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. Your speed — sometimes called your walking speed — is noted on your character sheet.
The most common actions you can take are described in the "Actions in Combat" section later in this chapter. Many class features and other abilities provide additional options for your action.
The "Movement and Position" section later in this chapter gives the rules for your move.
You can forgo moving, taking an action, or doing anything at all on your turn. If you can't decide what to do on your turn, consider taking the Dodge or Readyaction, as described in "Actions in Combat."
Bonus Actions
Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don't have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
Reactions
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of your next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
No, either draw two as the same item interaction, or stow two as the same item interaction. That is it.
In fact, since you do only have the ability to interact with one object one time (during your action or move), that actually precludes you from interacting with that same object a second time. The only way to gain a second object interaction is by using the [Tooltip Not Found] action, which states that it allows you to interact with a second object-- not the same object again.
Well, I'm not going to continue vainly engaging with bad-faith arguers. You're wrong, and you're committing multiple formal fallacies of logic to shoehorn an invalid conclusion into premises that do not support it. Enjoy.
No offense because I appreciate your input into this discussion, but you may have just described yourself right out of the conversation.
Again. Duel Wielder feat allows what would normally be 1 interaction and 1 action to no longer requiring the action. The question is, does the interaction with the second weapon become a free second interaction or does it become part of the first interaction with two targets. Since I no of no interaction giving two targets, then the action becoming a second free interaction makes sense.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
In fact, since you do only have the ability to interact with one object one time (during your action or move), that actually precludes you from interacting with that same object a second time. The only way to gain a second object interaction is by using the use an object action, which states that it allows you to interact with a second object.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
No, either draw two as the same item interaction, or stow two as the same item interaction. That is it.
Why is that it? Why did what would normally be an action become a second target of a free interaction instead of a second free interaction? I get your interpretation, just why is that it? Because it's your interpretation and not mine?
Seriously, why is the action only to be considered now a two target interaction instead of a different interaction when in any other situation it would be a second interaction?
In fact, since you do only have the ability to interact with one object one time (during your action or move), that actually precludes you from interacting with that same object a second time. The only way to gain a second object interaction is by using the use an object action, which states that it allows you to interact with a second object.
It doesn't say "one time", just one object during a move or action. So question is can you draw, attack, then stow all as the attack? (Without even considering Dual Wielder feat which allows two one weapon draws or stows. Also not saying it is at the same time or even a different weapon or hand.)
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Actions have multiple targets, but what free interaction has two targets?
If drawing two weapons is normally a free interaction and action, then this feat should be making the action a second interaction. (This makes sense mechanically since actions and interactions can be interpreted differently by DMs in RAW).
Good apples
In full context of my statement, I'm presenting the evidence.
RAW gives DMs decision on a free interaction becoming an action. We also know that drawing a weapon is a free interaction. We know that the feat let's you draw two weapons, which would normally be a interaction and action. So the feat is turning the action into a second free interaction.
Seriously! Quote me the language that disproves the premise "any character can draw or stow a single sword any number of times in a round for free." :)
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
This alone would make the build work.
It could be RAW since RAW is vague in not using specific terminology. It is a House Rule to add opinions to limit a feat when RAW is vague and doesn't list such specific limitations.
Right here:
Or is your argument hinging on the phrase “a second object” and that since it is the same object repeatedly you can draw or stow that weapon an infinite number of times.
If that’s the case then I am done with this conversation.
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The assumption that the rules were written to require they only do so once is one that I myself share, but it isn't actually written anywhere in the text, and may well have just been lazy reading on my part. I think when we go back to square 0, and look at the language that was actually written in these sections, it strongly supports framing the normal/Dual Wielder scenario as: normally you can draw/sheathe one weapon while doing other stuff on your turn for free; with Dual Wielder, you can draw/sheathe two weapons while doing other stuff on your turn for free.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You only get to do it for free as part of your attack. You only get one action.
"Such as". You can also do it while moving, as you can see here. And as you may make several attacks in an Attack Action, what stops you from doing it each time you attack? And when you attack with a Bonus Action?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Or you could instead do it as part of your move instead:
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This does, right here:
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On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
No, either draw two as the same item interaction, or stow two as the same item interaction. That is it.
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In fact, since you do only have the ability to interact with one object one time (during your action or move), that actually precludes you from interacting with that same object a second time. The only way to gain a second object interaction is by using the [Tooltip Not Found] action, which states that it allows you to interact with a second object-- not the same object again.
No offense because I appreciate your input into this discussion, but you may have just described yourself right out of the conversation.
Again. Duel Wielder feat allows what would normally be 1 interaction and 1 action to no longer requiring the action. The question is, does the interaction with the second weapon become a free second interaction or does it become part of the first interaction with two targets. Since I no of no interaction giving two targets, then the action becoming a second free interaction makes sense.
Absolutely correct.
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Why is that it? Why did what would normally be an action become a second target of a free interaction instead of a second free interaction? I get your interpretation, just why is that it? Because it's your interpretation and not mine?
Seriously, why is the action only to be considered now a two target interaction instead of a different interaction when in any other situation it would be a second interaction?
It doesn't say "one time", just one object during a move or action. So question is can you draw, attack, then stow all as the attack? (Without even considering Dual Wielder feat which allows two one weapon draws or stows. Also not saying it is at the same time or even a different weapon or hand.)