Why is that it? Why did what would normally be an action become a second target of a free interaction instead of a second free interaction?
Because that's what the feat says. It does not say anything about the type of action needed to draw or stow a weapon, it just says that if you would have the ability (regardless of how it's granted) to draw or stow a weapon, you can draw or stow two weapons. It's true whether you use your free interact, or use your action to take an additional object interaction, or use a thief's cunning action to take an additional object interaction, or some hypothetical ability lets you draw a weapon as a reaction.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
No, either draw two as the same item interaction, or stow two as the same item interaction. That is it.
Why is that it? Why did what would normally be an action become a second target of a free interaction instead of a second free interaction? I get your interpretation, just why is that it? Because it's your interpretation and not mine?
Seriously, why is the action only to be considered now a two target interaction instead of a different interaction when in any other situation it would be a second interaction?
What are you talking about? For example, the spell Eldritch Blast doesn’t grant additional [Tooltip Not Found] actions, just more targets for the same action. Extra Attacks doesn’t grant additional attack actions, just additional attacks with the same action. The Dual Wielder feat does not grant additional item interactions, it just lets you drew/stow two items as part of the same action. This is completely consistent with the rest of 5e.
In fact, since you do only have the ability to interact with one object one time (during your action or move), that actually precludes you from interacting with that same object a second time. The only way to gain a second object interaction is by using the use an object action, which states that it allows you to interact with a second object.
It doesn't say "one time", just one object during a move or action. So question is can you draw, attack, then stow all as the attack? (Without even considering Dual Wielder feat which allows two one weapon draws or stows. Also not saying it is at the same time or even a different weapon or hand.)
But it does:
Other Activity on Your Turn
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
On that note, since the free interaction is considered to be part of your action or move, you certainly can not stow and draw your weapon any number of times. Considering that you only get one interaction during your move or your action, it is clear that you only get to draw or stow your weapon once during a turn.
If true, duel wielder feat is still the question. Attack, move and stow, then attack, move and then draw.
No, either draw two as the same item interaction, or stow two as the same item interaction. That is it.
Why is that it? Why did what would normally be an action become a second target of a free interaction instead of a second free interaction? I get your interpretation, just why is that it? Because it's your interpretation and not mine?
Seriously, why is the action only to be considered now a two target interaction instead of a different interaction when in any other situation it would be a second interaction?
Because that is what the text of the third bullet describes: getting to use an interaction on two objects at once.
Seriously, I don’t get this “I’m done with the conversation if you quote the text at me and ask me to find text that contradicts it” attitude. We disagree, fine. But can you agree that nothing IN THE TEXT says “one time,” and that you’re needing to read between the lines to find that? All it says with is “one object.”
Seriously, I don’t get this “I’m done with the conversation if you quote the text at me and ask me to find text that contradicts it” attitude. We disagree, fine. But can you agree that nothing IN THE TEXT says “one time,” and that you’re needing to read between the lines to find that? All it says with is “one object.”
Please answer my question, yes or no:
Are you suggesting that as long as you don’t switch objects that you can interact with the same object an infinite number of times?
Nothing says “one time.” Unwritten assumptions. It says “one object.”
So you’re saying that as long as you don’t switch objects that you can interact with the same object an infinite number of times?!?
Yes, I’m saying there’s a distinct possibility that with one sword, you could sheathe it whole moving, and then redraw it while making your attack, because you can interact with “one object” on your turn for free during other activity. Like you said, there’s not an infinite amount of other activity to take, once during each move or attack, and I’m not sure you could sheathe it as part of an attack logically... but certainly enough to maybe toggle it once or twice?
Nothing says “one time.” Unwritten assumptions. It says “one object.”
So you’re saying that as long as you don’t switch objects that you can interact with the same object an infinite number of times?!?
Yes, I’m saying there’s a distinct possibility that with one sword, you could sheathe it whole moving, and then redraw it while making your attack, because you can interact with “one object” on your turn for free during other activity. Like you said, there’s not an infinite amount of other activity to take, once during each move or attack, and I’m not sure you could sheathe it as part of an attack logically... but certainly enough to maybe toggle it once or twice?
None of the examples that you linked to earlier imply that you can have more than one interaction with the object that you choose to interact with.
Other than the fact that is a surprising interpretation, I don’t think it’s an UNBALANCING one? “You can draw/stow your weapon for free on your turn whenever you do something else, so long as you haven’t interacted with any other objects” would be a fine baseline assumption, and seems supported by the plain text.
And if that’s the baseline, Dual Wielder would them let you do that with TWO weapons throughout your turn.
I don’t need anything to imply it, the text doesn’t say anything about “once per turn,” and nothing implies THAT other than our collective assumptions.
Other than the fact that is a surprising interpretation, I don’t think it’s an UNBALANCING one? “You can draw/stow your weapon for free on your turn whenever you do something else, so long as you haven’t interacted with any other objects” would be a fine baseline assumption, and seems supported by the plain text.
And if that’s the baseline, Dual Wielder would them let you do that with TWO weapons throughout your turn.
Actually NO.
Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action:
Why is that clear? It doesn’t say “either draw or sheathe your sword once”?
There is an argument looking for an outcome.
Sure you can draw your one sword as many times as you like (actually, that is clearly not in the spirit of the rule, but "it doesn't say you can't"). But you may not sheath it because you've chosen to draw it.
How many times do you really need to draw a sword once you've chosen to do that (rather than sheath it)?
The real point of that list is that it gives you an expectation of what object interactions are: they are not continuous or repeated actions, they are short simple things. You should expect one of those for free, obviously. Reading it any other way is... counterproductive, and to be frank, a little annoying.
Other than the fact that is a surprising interpretation, I don’t think it’s an UNBALANCING one? “You can draw/stow your weapon for free on your turn whenever you do something else, so long as you haven’t interacted with any other objects” would be a fine baseline assumption, and seems supported by the plain text.
And if that’s the baseline, Dual Wielder would them let you do that with TWO weapons throughout your turn.
Actually NO.
Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action:
draw or sheathe a sword
It is clear that you cannot do both.
Where is it clear? It says interact with object with movement or attack, not that the interaction is limited to only stowing or drawing. (Again duel wielder feat not even included in this.)
Well, I'm not going to continue vainly engaging with bad-faith arguers. You're wrong, and you're committing multiple formal fallacies of logic to shoehorn an invalid conclusion into premises that do not support it. Enjoy.
No offense because I appreciate your input into this discussion, but you may have just described yourself right out of the conversation.
Again. Duel Wielder feat allows what would normally be 1 interaction and 1 action to no longer requiring the action. The question is, does the interaction with the second weapon become a free second interaction or does it become part of the first interaction with two targets. Since I no of no interaction giving two targets, then the action becoming a second free interaction makes sense.
I think this is a valid interpretation, but no more so than the interaction giving two targets. Feats, by definition, allow for things that aren't normally done. IE PAM allowing you to make an opportunity attack as someone enters your reach as opposed to all of the exits the reach examples.
Feats and Multiclassing both open up lots of gray area for interactions that weren't always tested as strenuously as the interactions within a class. As a result, the vast majority of disagreements regarding 5e hinge on feats and/or multiclassing.
As for Sigred describing themself out of the conversation, I'm certain that the intent of the post was an announcement that they were retiring from the conversation.
Why is that clear? It doesn’t say “either draw or sheathe your sword once”?
There is an argument looking for an outcome.
Sure you can draw your one sword as many times as you like. But you may not sheath it because you've chosen to draw it.
Why? It says interact with one object for free during movement or attack, it doesn't limit the interaction to once.
Example: I move 5 feet, stow, move 5 feet, draw. Rinse and repeat.
Example: Stow, attack, draw.
Those are examples of interacting with one object during movement or attacking.
(None of this even includes Duel Wielder.)
As I've already pointed out, you are precluded from interacting with an object a second time. You get to interact with an object as either part of your move or your attack. The types of interactions you can use are the ones listed in the list you linked . You cannot interact with the same object a second time because even the use an object interaction requires that it be a different object that you interact with.
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Because that's what the feat says. It does not say anything about the type of action needed to draw or stow a weapon, it just says that if you would have the ability (regardless of how it's granted) to draw or stow a weapon, you can draw or stow two weapons. It's true whether you use your free interact, or use your action to take an additional object interaction, or use a thief's cunning action to take an additional object interaction, or some hypothetical ability lets you draw a weapon as a reaction.
What are you talking about? For example, the spell Eldritch Blast doesn’t grant additional [Tooltip Not Found] actions, just more targets for the same action. Extra Attacks doesn’t grant additional attack actions, just additional attacks with the same action. The Dual Wielder feat does not grant additional item interactions, it just lets you drew/stow two items as part of the same action. This is completely consistent with the rest of 5e.
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But it does:
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Nothing says “one time.” Unwritten assumptions. It says “one object.”
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
So you’re saying that as long as you don’t switch objects that you can interact with the same object an infinite number of times?!?
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Because that is what the text of the third bullet describes: getting to use an interaction on two objects at once.
Seriously, I don’t get this “I’m done with the conversation if you quote the text at me and ask me to find text that contradicts it” attitude. We disagree, fine. But can you agree that nothing IN THE TEXT says “one time,” and that you’re needing to read between the lines to find that? All it says with is “one object.”
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Please answer my question, yes or no:
Are you suggesting that as long as you don’t switch objects that you can interact with the same object an infinite number of times?
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Yes, I’m saying there’s a distinct possibility that with one sword, you could sheathe it whole moving, and then redraw it while making your attack, because you can interact with “one object” on your turn for free during other activity. Like you said, there’s not an infinite amount of other activity to take, once during each move or attack, and I’m not sure you could sheathe it as part of an attack logically... but certainly enough to maybe toggle it once or twice?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
None of the examples that you linked to earlier imply that you can have more than one interaction with the object that you choose to interact with.
Other than the fact that is a surprising interpretation, I don’t think it’s an UNBALANCING one? “You can draw/stow your weapon for free on your turn whenever you do something else, so long as you haven’t interacted with any other objects” would be a fine baseline assumption, and seems supported by the plain text.
And if that’s the baseline, Dual Wielder would them let you do that with TWO weapons throughout your turn.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don’t need anything to imply it, the text doesn’t say anything about “once per turn,” and nothing implies THAT other than our collective assumptions.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Actually NO.
It is clear that you cannot do both.
Why is that clear? It doesn’t say “either draw or sheathe your sword once”?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
There is an argument looking for an outcome.
Sure you can draw your one sword as many times as you like (actually, that is clearly not in the spirit of the rule, but "it doesn't say you can't"). But you may not sheath it because you've chosen to draw it.
How many times do you really need to draw a sword once you've chosen to do that (rather than sheath it)?
Why? It says interact with one object for free during movement or attack, it doesn't limit the interaction to once.
Example: I move 5 feet, stow, move 5 feet, draw. Rinse and repeat.
Example: Stow, attack, draw.
Those are examples of interacting with one object during movement or attacking.
(None of this even includes Duel Wielder.)
The real point of that list is that it gives you an expectation of what object interactions are: they are not continuous or repeated actions, they are short simple things. You should expect one of those for free, obviously. Reading it any other way is... counterproductive, and to be frank, a little annoying.
Where is it clear? It says interact with object with movement or attack, not that the interaction is limited to only stowing or drawing. (Again duel wielder feat not even included in this.)
I think this is a valid interpretation, but no more so than the interaction giving two targets. Feats, by definition, allow for things that aren't normally done. IE PAM allowing you to make an opportunity attack as someone enters your reach as opposed to all of the exits the reach examples.
Feats and Multiclassing both open up lots of gray area for interactions that weren't always tested as strenuously as the interactions within a class. As a result, the vast majority of disagreements regarding 5e hinge on feats and/or multiclassing.
As for Sigred describing themself out of the conversation, I'm certain that the intent of the post was an announcement that they were retiring from the conversation.
As I've already pointed out, you are precluded from interacting with an object a second time. You get to interact with an object as either part of your move or your attack. The types of interactions you can use are the ones listed in the list you linked . You cannot interact with the same object a second time because even the use an object interaction requires that it be a different object that you interact with.