Why is the Bonus an exception and not the Reaction?... neither says they are exceptions.
They both appear in the PHB. under casting times of spells.
Why are they not both the common ways to cast Bonus or Reaction spells?
The Bonus Action rule:
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
The Reaction rule:
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
No matter which rule is enforced over the other, they contradict each other... it can easily be argued that the Reaction rule is an exception also and therefore whenever their triggers are met they can be cast... so a Reaction spell can be cast on your turn even if you've already cast a Bonus Action spell.
And just because you say the Bonus Action rule is an exception doesn't make it so... it appears to just be listed as a casting time rule.
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The rules for Reaction spells tell you Generally when you are able to cast one. From the Basic Rules:
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so
If your argument is that this is the only rule that governs when you can cast a Reaction spell, you are wrong. In other sections it is made clear that there are other requirements to be able to cast a reaction spell, including
You must have a spell slot available (from the spell slot rules elsewhere in Chapter 10, section titled "Spell Slots")
You must have a reaction available (from the reaction rules in Chapter 9, section titled "Your Turn")
I'm not sure why you think the rules for a Reaction spell are an island to themselves when they are clearly governed by other rules in other areas. If you admit that, then you have to admit that it can also be governed by the Bonus action spell rule, which specifically prohibits other spells from being cast (with one, very specific type of spell excepted)
Also, the rule in question is stated as a "you can" rule. Such rules are open to modification by other rules that say "you can't" because those create exceptions to the "you can" rule. For example:
If I meet the trigger for Counterspell, but don't have a 3rd level or higher spell slot, then I can't cast Counterspell (because the spell slots rule says I can't)
If I meet the trigger for Counterspell, but don't have a reaction available, I can't cast Counterspell (because the reactions rule says I can't)
And likewise:
If I meet the trigger for Counterspell, but its my turn and I have cast a bonus action spell (or want to before the turn ends), then I can't cast Counterspell (because the bonus action spellcasting rule says I can't)
This relationship doesn't work in reverse, because if it did then reaction spells could be cast without spell slots and without needing a reaction available. Looking at it another way helps as well: A rule that says "you can" always gives you the choice to do so or not; it's not an imperative ( It doesn't mean that "you must"). However, a rule that says "you can't" is an imperative, and without a clear exception to that imperative, has to be obeyed.
PHB: Chapter 10 -> Casting a Spell -> Casting Time
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
These are two paragraphs that provide specifics to an otherwise general rule, ie: "Most spells require a single action to cast"
Notice that for reactions, it says, "IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,..." and not "IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,..."
The first implies all spells that have a casting time of "a reaction". The latter, which would be used to follow the general logic of this thread, would imply that the ruling about when to use the reaction hinges on being able to cast it in the first place.
But it is not written that way. They are separate distinct paragraphs, each providing a specification to a general rule and no order of precedence is provided. So each individual reaction spell specifically says when you can use them.
PHB: Chapter 10 -> Casting a Spell -> Casting Time
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
These are two paragraphs that provide specifics to an otherwise general rule, ie: "Most spells require a single action to cast"
Notice that for reactions, it says, "IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,..." and not "IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,..."
The first implies all spells that have a casting time of "a reaction". The latter, which would be used to follow the general logic of this thread, would imply that the ruling about when to use the reaction hinges on being able to cast it in the first place.
But it is not written that way. They are separate distinct paragraphs, each providing a specification to a general rule and no order of precedence is provided. So each individual reaction spell specifically says when you can use them.
Wrong...One provides an option, the other an imperative. Reactions give you the Option to cast a reaction when the trigger is met. If it wasn't an option you would be forced to cast it every time you met the trigger. The Bonus action gives you an imperative to obey. You have to obey it, unless a specific exception is met.
If they both have the same force; you would be required to cast Counterspell against any spell you could see within range, but that is not the case.
General Rules that say "you can" can always be overridden by a general or specific rule that says "you can't". General Rules that say "you can't" only get overridden by either direct exceptions in the rule or by specific examples. That's not a written rule, its logic, and without it, all of the rules breakdown (see my post above)
Notice that for reactions, it says, "IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,..." and not "IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,..."
The first implies all spells that have a casting time of "a reaction". The latter, which would be used to follow the general logic of this thread, would imply that the ruling about when to use the reaction hinges on being able to cast it in the first place.
But it is not written that way. They are separate distinct paragraphs, each providing a specification to a general rule and no order of precedence is provided. So each individual reaction spell specifically says when you can use them.
What you’re missing is that if it said “IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,...” that would be a rule about when spells can be cast as reactions. It isn’t though.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
So this “rule” isn’t actually a rule about when spells are allowed to be cast as reactions. This is just telling us where to look for the appropriate trigger for each reaction spell.
On the other hand, this is a simple “if: then” statement:
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
“If: You cast a spell as a bonus action.... Then: You cannot cast any other spells this turn except for Cantrips that take an action to cast.”
OK, let's try it this way. It's your turn, you are in an antimagic-shell, you move out of the reach of a monster, and you would like to cast shield to protect yourself against an incoming AoO (so "reaction spell" on your turn, right ?).
Can you do it ? No, of course, because there is another rule preventing you from casting the goddam spell even though the rules about reactions spells says you can.
It's exactly the same thing if you have already cast a spell as a bonus action. An additional restriction. How hard is it to understand ?
Read the description. The field doesn't prevent the spell from being cast, because the spell slot is still consumed. The field just prevents the magic from actually doing anything.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
You are cherry picking to validate your argument. You will happily interpret the first part the way you want, to justify your argument. But then you completely ignore the second part, which is EXPLICIT in telling you WHEN you can use the reaction.
The paragraph on Reactions is a SPECIFIC rule FOR reactions.
There are two specific rules and they contradict each other.
Why is the Bonus an exception and not the Reaction?... neither says they are exceptions.
They both appear in the PHB. under casting times of spells.
Why are they not both the common ways to cast Bonus or Reaction spells?
The Bonus Action rule:
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
The Reaction rule:
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
No matter which rule is enforced over the other, they contradict each other... it can easily be argued that the Reaction rule is an exception also and therefore whenever their triggers are met they can be cast... so a Reaction spell can be cast on your turn even if you've already cast a Bonus Action spell.
And just because you say the Bonus Action rule is an exception doesn't make it so... it appears to just be listed as a casting time rule.
Okay, I'll make it really simple for you. Exceptions happen under specific circumstances. In general, you're able to cast a spell with a cast time of a reaction as a reaction in reaction to the trigger. But under specific exceptional circumstances, that general rule is superseded. For example, if you don't have a spell slot to cast the spell with, you can't cast it. If you don't have an available reaction, you can't cast it. If you've already cast a spell as a bonus action in the same turn, you can't cast it.
The reason the bonus action text is the specific rule and the reaction text is the general rule is because that is fundamentally what specific and general mean.
The bonus action text obviously creates an exception, because it includes text that overrides other general rules on what you can and cannot do with your action economy: "You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The reaction text doesn't create any exception at all. If you think the reaction text is an exception to some general rule, please point it out. I asked you to do this in my last response to you, and you've yet failed to do so.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
You are cherry picking to validate your argument. You will happily interpret the first part the way you want, to justify your argument. But then you completely ignore the second part, which is EXPLICIT in telling you WHEN you can use the reaction.
The paragraph on Reactions is a SPECIFIC rule FOR reactions.
There are two specific rules and they contradict each other.
Please explain how the reaction rule is an imperative that overrides the bonus action rule, or even how the reaction rule is an imperative at all. It presents you an option only (it doesn't force you to use the reaction on the trigger), while the bonus action is an actual imperative you have to obey unless the specific exception given is met.
If they were both imperatives then there would be a contradiction, but because the reaction rule is not an imperative (it tells you when you have the option, not that you must), there is no conflict here because only one of the rules is actually an imperative.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
The paragraph on Reactions is a SPECIFIC rule FOR reactions.
That's an egregiously absurd statement. The paragraph on reactions is a general rule, because it applies generally to all reactions regardless of circumstance. The text in the bonus action section is a specific exception, because it applies only to reactions used to cast spells in the same turn in which a spell has been cast with a bonus action.
The bonus action text creates a specific RULE to trump the general rule, that spells take actions to cast. If you want to use your action to cast again, then there is a specific requirement.
The reaction text also creates a specific RULE, and has MANY specific requirements defined by the numerous spells themselves. Or, if you insist, the spell text has many exceptions for when it can't be cast (of which, the bonus action text is not part of any of them).
The reaction spells themselves create specific rules, and the text ruling on how to use Reactions says to look at the spells themselves.
Absorb Elements: Can it be cast if you take Force, Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Psychic, etc??? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Counterspell: If I am suffering from the Blinded condition, but I hear a caster casting a spell with a Verbal component, can I cast counterspell? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Feather Fall: Can you cast this BEFORE you jump and start falling? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Gift of Gab: Ehh, maybe it could be interpreted as not working if you use thieve's cant?
Hellish Rebuke You're fighting a single creature in melee. It hits you, but you are suffering from the Blind conditions, can you cast it? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...
Soul Cage: Can you use this against a monstrosity? Against a beast? Against a.. you get the point. No, it has a very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Temporal Shunt: Again, if you're blind. SOL. Very specific requirement to when it can be cast. Or if you insist on using "exception" then the spell has a very specific exception to when it CAN'T be cast.
The bonus action text creates a specific RULE to trump the general rule, that spells take actions to cast. If you want to use your action to cast again, then there is a specific requirement.
The reaction text also creates a specific RULE, and has MANY specific requirements defined by the numerous spells themselves. Or, if you insist, the spell text has many exceptions for when it can't be cast (of which, the bonus action text is not part of any of them).
The reaction spells themselves create specific rules, and the text ruling on how to use Reactions says to look at the spells themselves.
Absorb Elements: Can it be cast if you take Force, Bludgeoning, Slashing, Piercing, Psychic, etc??? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Counterspell: If I am suffering from the Blinded condition, but I hear a caster casting a spell with a Verbal component, can I cast counterspell? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Feather Fall: Can you cast this BEFORE you jump and start falling? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Gift of Gab: Ehh, maybe it could be interpreted as not working if you use thieve's cant?
Hellish Rebuke You're fighting a single creature in melee. It hits you, but you are suffering from the Blind conditions, can you cast it? No, there are very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...
Soul Cage: Can you use this against a monstrosity? Against a beast? Against a.. you get the point. No, it has a very specific requirements to when you can use this.
Temporal Shunt: Again, if you're blind. SOL. Very specific requirement to when it can be cast. Or if you insist on using "exception" then the spell has a very specific exception to when it CAN'T be cast.
Sure, and so you can still cast those spells even if you don't have a spell slot, even if you don't have a reaction, and actually, you know, every rule is a specific rule because they're all specific to D&D, so they all just conflict with each other in an un-resolvable paradox and the entire conversation is meaningless.
None of those specific casting requirements creates an exception to the specific rule that the only other spells you can cast on turns you use a bonus action to cast a spell are one-action cantrips. They are additional restrictions, not universal permissions.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
You are cherry picking to validate your argument. You will happily interpret the first part the way you want, to justify your argument. But then you completely ignore the second part, which is EXPLICIT in telling you WHEN you can use the reaction.
The paragraph on Reactions is a SPECIFIC rule FOR reactions.
There are two specific rules and they contradict each other.
Some people are still trying to convolute and confuse the topic adding complications that have nothing to do with it... need a spell slot to cast a Reaction spell, the same can be said for Bonus Action spells... this in not what this is all about.
If Reaction spells say when they can be cast let's look at each one, or pick one specific one, Shield for instance.
In post #131 right above, Kerrec seems to think it's an option to cast Shield before you get hit... 'Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...' ...you can only cast Shield when you are hit, not before at any time you want.
This works the same with every reaction spell, they tell you when they can be cast, usually in response to some trigger. Since this is the only time they can be cast they should be able to be cast at this time without having to go outside the Reaction looking for other rules that say when you can cast them (like inside the Bonus Action rules... do you have to go outside the Bonus Action rules to find out when to cast them?)
Most people in this argument or debate want to acknowledge the Bonus Action rules but not the Reaction rules.
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"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Some people are still trying to convolute and confuse the topic adding complications that have nothing to do with it... need a spell slot to cast a Reaction spell, the same can be said for Bonus Action spells... this in not what this is all about.
If Reaction spells say when they can be cast let's look at each one, or pick one specific one, Shield for instance.
In post #131 right above, Kerrec seems to think it's an option to cast Shield before you get hit... 'Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...' ...you can only cast Shield when you are hit, not before at any time you want.
This works the same with every reaction spell, they tell you when they can be cast, usually in response to some trigger. Since this is the only time they can be cast they should be able to be cast at this time without having to go outside the Reaction looking for other rules that say when you can cast them (like inside the Bonus Action rules... do you have to go outside the Bonus Action rules to find out when to cast them?)
Most people in this argument or debate want to acknowledge the Bonus Action rules but not the Reaction rules.
Are you serious? Assuming you need to go looking at any rules, you'll have already found the rules on casting spells as bonus actions if you cast a spell as a hecking bonus action. If you didn't, then it's not relevant.
You're trying to argue that because Shield says you take its reaction "when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell," you are always able to take that reaction regardless of other circumstances. There is no distinction in your argument between "I don't have a spell slot for it" and "I've already cast a spell as a bonus action this turn." And it's true: they're both additional circumstantial limitations on spellcasting, specific exceptions to the general case of "I can react to the trigger." That you think that means you can ignore those limitations is... mind-boggling, to say the least.
You can continue to ignore the rules all you want. It's very apparent that you're not actually interested in figuring out how things really work, so trying to convince you that the earth is a globe just isn't productive.
Some people are still trying to convolute and confuse the topic adding complications that have nothing to do with it... need a spell slot to cast a Reaction spell, the same can be said for Bonus Action spells... this in not what this is all about.
If Reaction spells say when they can be cast let's look at each one, or pick one specific one, Shield for instance.
In post #131 right above, Kerrec seems to think it's an option to cast Shield before you get hit... 'Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...' ...you can only cast Shield when you are hit, not before at any time you want.
This works the same with every reaction spell, they tell you when they can be cast, usually in response to some trigger. Since this is the only time they can be cast they should be able to be cast at this time without having to go outside the Reaction looking for other rules that say when you can cast them (like inside the Bonus Action rules... do you have to go outside the Bonus Action rules to find out when to cast them?)
Most people in this argument or debate want to acknowledge the Bonus Action rules but not the Reaction rules.
Unfortunately your interpretation basically says that you can ignore the (very, very clear) rule in one section to be able to do what you want in the other. If that is your honest, good faith approach to the rules, you might as well not have rules to begin with.
The reaction rules present an option; when a trigger happens you can choose to cast the spell. but obviously, other rules throughout the text and even in other chapters weigh in on this (spell slots, general reaction rules, spells known, etc). You are basically saying that either those rules are not valid either, or that you want to cherry pick ones to ignore. If you can't understand that you are cherry picking here, then I don't know what else to say to you, and will just say best of luck in your games (incorrect as they may be)
Look up the definition of the word "preclude" and ask your question again...
...I'll give you a hint, it means "prevent from happening". Since there isn't a "not" before it, JC is saying bonus action spells prevent casting a reaction the same turn
Why is the Bonus an exception and not the Reaction?... neither says they are exceptions.
They both appear in the PHB. under casting times of spells.
Why are they not both the common ways to cast Bonus or Reaction spells?
The Bonus Action rule:
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
The Reaction rule:
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
No matter which rule is enforced over the other, they contradict each other... it can easily be argued that the Reaction rule is an exception also and therefore whenever their triggers are met they can be cast... so a Reaction spell can be cast on your turn even if you've already cast a Bonus Action spell.
And just because you say the Bonus Action rule is an exception doesn't make it so... it appears to just be listed as a casting time rule.
The rules for Reaction spells tell you Generally when you are able to cast one. From the Basic Rules:
If your argument is that this is the only rule that governs when you can cast a Reaction spell, you are wrong. In other sections it is made clear that there are other requirements to be able to cast a reaction spell, including
I'm not sure why you think the rules for a Reaction spell are an island to themselves when they are clearly governed by other rules in other areas. If you admit that, then you have to admit that it can also be governed by the Bonus action spell rule, which specifically prohibits other spells from being cast (with one, very specific type of spell excepted)
Also, the rule in question is stated as a "you can" rule. Such rules are open to modification by other rules that say "you can't" because those create exceptions to the "you can" rule. For example:
And likewise:
This relationship doesn't work in reverse, because if it did then reaction spells could be cast without spell slots and without needing a reaction available. Looking at it another way helps as well: A rule that says "you can" always gives you the choice to do so or not; it's not an imperative ( It doesn't mean that "you must"). However, a rule that says "you can't" is an imperative, and without a clear exception to that imperative, has to be obeyed.
PHB: Chapter 10 -> Casting a Spell -> Casting Time
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Reactions
Some spells can be cast as reactions. These spells take a fraction of a second to bring about and are cast in response to some event. If a spell can be cast as a reaction, the spell description tells you exactly when you can do so.
These are two paragraphs that provide specifics to an otherwise general rule, ie: "Most spells require a single action to cast"
Notice that for reactions, it says, "IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,..." and not "IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,..."
The first implies all spells that have a casting time of "a reaction". The latter, which would be used to follow the general logic of this thread, would imply that the ruling about when to use the reaction hinges on being able to cast it in the first place.
But it is not written that way. They are separate distinct paragraphs, each providing a specification to a general rule and no order of precedence is provided. So each individual reaction spell specifically says when you can use them.
Wrong...One provides an option, the other an imperative. Reactions give you the Option to cast a reaction when the trigger is met. If it wasn't an option you would be forced to cast it every time you met the trigger. The Bonus action gives you an imperative to obey. You have to obey it, unless a specific exception is met.
If they both have the same force; you would be required to cast Counterspell against any spell you could see within range, but that is not the case.
General Rules that say "you can" can always be overridden by a general or specific rule that says "you can't". General Rules that say "you can't" only get overridden by either direct exceptions in the rule or by specific examples. That's not a written rule, its logic, and without it, all of the rules breakdown (see my post above)
What you’re missing is that if it said “IF A REACTION SPELL CAN BE CAST,...” that would be a rule about when spells can be cast as reactions. It isn’t though.
As you pointed out, it clearly says “IF A SPELL CAN BE CAST AS A REACTION,...” which means that this is instead simply telling us where we can find the various triggers for each individual spell, specifically, in the descriptions for those individual spells.
So this “rule” isn’t actually a rule about when spells are allowed to be cast as reactions. This is just telling us where to look for the appropriate trigger for each reaction spell.
On the other hand, this is a simple “if: then” statement:
“If: You cast a spell as a bonus action....
Then: You cannot cast any other spells this turn except for Cantrips that take an action to cast.”
What part of this is unclear to people?!?
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Assuming you mean Antimagic Field, then you are WRONG here.
Read the description. The field doesn't prevent the spell from being cast, because the spell slot is still consumed. The field just prevents the magic from actually doing anything.
You are cherry picking to validate your argument. You will happily interpret the first part the way you want, to justify your argument. But then you completely ignore the second part, which is EXPLICIT in telling you WHEN you can use the reaction.
The paragraph on Reactions is a SPECIFIC rule FOR reactions.
There are two specific rules and they contradict each other.
Okay, I'll make it really simple for you. Exceptions happen under specific circumstances. In general, you're able to cast a spell with a cast time of a reaction as a reaction in reaction to the trigger. But under specific exceptional circumstances, that general rule is superseded. For example, if you don't have a spell slot to cast the spell with, you can't cast it. If you don't have an available reaction, you can't cast it. If you've already cast a spell as a bonus action in the same turn, you can't cast it.
The reason the bonus action text is the specific rule and the reaction text is the general rule is because that is fundamentally what specific and general mean.
The bonus action text obviously creates an exception, because it includes text that overrides other general rules on what you can and cannot do with your action economy: "You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The reaction text doesn't create any exception at all. If you think the reaction text is an exception to some general rule, please point it out. I asked you to do this in my last response to you, and you've yet failed to do so.
Please explain how the reaction rule is an imperative that overrides the bonus action rule, or even how the reaction rule is an imperative at all. It presents you an option only (it doesn't force you to use the reaction on the trigger), while the bonus action is an actual imperative you have to obey unless the specific exception given is met.
If they were both imperatives then there would be a contradiction, but because the reaction rule is not an imperative (it tells you when you have the option, not that you must), there is no conflict here because only one of the rules is actually an imperative.
That's an egregiously absurd statement. The paragraph on reactions is a general rule, because it applies generally to all reactions regardless of circumstance. The text in the bonus action section is a specific exception, because it applies only to reactions used to cast spells in the same turn in which a spell has been cast with a bonus action.
Your language is confusing.
The bonus action text creates a specific RULE to trump the general rule, that spells take actions to cast. If you want to use your action to cast again, then there is a specific requirement.
The reaction text also creates a specific RULE, and has MANY specific requirements defined by the numerous spells themselves. Or, if you insist, the spell text has many exceptions for when it can't be cast (of which, the bonus action text is not part of any of them).
The reaction spells themselves create specific rules, and the text ruling on how to use Reactions says to look at the spells themselves.
I think it's time to throw in the towel on this argument. You gave it a good effort.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sure, and so you can still cast those spells even if you don't have a spell slot, even if you don't have a reaction, and actually, you know, every rule is a specific rule because they're all specific to D&D, so they all just conflict with each other in an un-resolvable paradox and the entire conversation is meaningless.
None of those specific casting requirements creates an exception to the specific rule that the only other spells you can cast on turns you use a bonus action to cast a spell are one-action cantrips. They are additional restrictions, not universal permissions.
Not even remotely.
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Some people are still trying to convolute and confuse the topic adding complications that have nothing to do with it... need a spell slot to cast a Reaction spell, the same can be said for Bonus Action spells... this in not what this is all about.
If Reaction spells say when they can be cast let's look at each one, or pick one specific one, Shield for instance.
In post #131 right above, Kerrec seems to think it's an option to cast Shield before you get hit... 'Shield: pretty specific. Can't imagine why you'd want to use it before you get hit...' ...you can only cast Shield when you are hit, not before at any time you want.
This works the same with every reaction spell, they tell you when they can be cast, usually in response to some trigger. Since this is the only time they can be cast they should be able to be cast at this time without having to go outside the Reaction looking for other rules that say when you can cast them (like inside the Bonus Action rules... do you have to go outside the Bonus Action rules to find out when to cast them?)
Most people in this argument or debate want to acknowledge the Bonus Action rules but not the Reaction rules.
Are you serious? Assuming you need to go looking at any rules, you'll have already found the rules on casting spells as bonus actions if you cast a spell as a hecking bonus action. If you didn't, then it's not relevant.
You're trying to argue that because Shield says you take its reaction "when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell," you are always able to take that reaction regardless of other circumstances. There is no distinction in your argument between "I don't have a spell slot for it" and "I've already cast a spell as a bonus action this turn." And it's true: they're both additional circumstantial limitations on spellcasting, specific exceptions to the general case of "I can react to the trigger." That you think that means you can ignore those limitations is... mind-boggling, to say the least.
You can continue to ignore the rules all you want. It's very apparent that you're not actually interested in figuring out how things really work, so trying to convince you that the earth is a globe just isn't productive.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/524709675342630913 I don't know if this is exactly what we're looking for or not, but, does this end the debate? lol
Unfortunately your interpretation basically says that you can ignore the (very, very clear) rule in one section to be able to do what you want in the other. If that is your honest, good faith approach to the rules, you might as well not have rules to begin with.
The reaction rules present an option; when a trigger happens you can choose to cast the spell. but obviously, other rules throughout the text and even in other chapters weigh in on this (spell slots, general reaction rules, spells known, etc). You are basically saying that either those rules are not valid either, or that you want to cherry pick ones to ignore. If you can't understand that you are cherry picking here, then I don't know what else to say to you, and will just say best of luck in your games (incorrect as they may be)
Look up the definition of the word "preclude" and ask your question again...
...I'll give you a hint, it means "prevent from happening". Since there isn't a "not" before it, JC is saying bonus action spells prevent casting a reaction the same turn
I did look up the definition! I don’t understand, eh $&#$ it who cares.