I'm building a rogue arcane trickster and I'm curious about if it is reasonable to use a mage hand (invisible just to confuse the enemy) to assist with using a net attack. My rationale is there is a world of difference between throwing a net to open, wrap around someone, then tangle effectively vs using 3 points to pull it over someone and down. Particularly since mage hand is a bonus action for a trickster: effectively combining action and bonus action to use a complex special attack based on the nature of a net and mage hand.
I may allow it as if the hand floated above the creature and drop the net on them to get entangled but I would not allow it as a thrown (Range attack) action since Mage Hand indicates that "The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds."
No. Just dropping the net would not include the motion necessary to cause the net to flair out in any useful manner. That’s what the Attack roll is for, and Mage Hand cannot Attack.
I would say that getting Unseen Servant to do this makes a lot more sense. That said, if you had two ATricksters in the party, i don't see how you could not combine your efforts to drop a spread out net on top of someone or some beast. However, at that point you would be using a bonus action from Rogue A and a readied action from Rogue B.
There are probably better ways to design a trap, such as by using an overhanging branch, a flimsy box filled with vials of alchemist fire, and a rope. Have the Mage Hand hold the rope to keep the box from falling. Bonus action to release the rope and thus the box on top of whomever walks under the box. ---> KABLAM!
Also, you could probably do with only 1 Mage Hand, if you have enough prep time, now that I think about it some more. Make a frame out of some lightweight wood. Nail quick-release clasps to the frame. Attach net to the frame. Drop the frame on the target. The frame falling on the creature would probably mean a DEX save, not an attack roll. Impact of frame on creature causes net to detach.
I have thought about this several times, but both Mage Hand and Unseen Servants cannot attack.
Catapult, however, is totally feasible. It’s a recurrent strategy I’m employing with my Wizard. Really good damage and an annoying restraining for the target.
Yeah, i covered that in Post # 7. The trick is having the downtime and the skill proficiency to create the clasps. It should be achievable with Smith's Tools, esp. if the smith is a gnome or similarly small race.
Yeah, i covered that in Post # 7. The trick is having the downtime and the skill proficiency to create the clasps. It should be achievable with Smith's Tools, esp. if the smith is a gnome or similarly small race.
Not really a smith, it sounds much more like building a trap to me - having a contraption trigger at the right time.
Seems like a whole lot of trouble to try and get this to work. And the net itself weighs 3 pounds so that only leaves 7 for the wood frame, clasps, and anything else needed to make your contraption. I assume the frame is square so it holds the net outstretched. Even at 10 pounds try holding something like that horizontally with one hand. I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for the mage hand. Then since it is holding the frame, how does it release the net? It’s already occupied holding the frame?
If I was the DM that would be a no on this project
Also, you could probably do with only 1 Mage Hand, if you have enough prep time, now that I think about it some more. Make a frame out of some lightweight wood. Nail quick-release clasps to the frame. Attach net to the frame. Drop the frame on the target. The frame falling on the creature would probably mean a DEX save, not an attack roll. Impact of frame on creature causes net to detach.
A frame to hold a net large enough to capture a creature of the size class "large" (that's everything up to and potentially slightly beyond an owlbear) is going to be heavier than 10 pounds.
Anyway, for the OP, if you want to throw nets on people, just do it. You clearly don't mind missing out on your main action, but just because you spent a bonus action doing something doesn't mean that that bonus action has to be merited as useful.
I think they're going for something akin to the gladiator style of the Retiarius, in which case, the cast wouldn't be two-handed in all likelihoods, due to the difficulty of casting two handed and then using a trident.
I think they're going for something akin to the gladiator style of the Retiarius, in which case, the cast wouldn't be two-handed in all likelihoods, due to the difficulty of casting two handed and then using a trident.
It's a neat bit of inspiration. Could be fun to roleplay a gladiator (alternative entertainer background) who has taken to adventuring, and keeps to his favorite fighting style even now that he has retired for the most part from doing that as his primary career, the style being whatever fantasy analog you have to the Roman Retiarius.
Seems like a whole lot of trouble to try and get this to work. And the net itself weighs 3 pounds so that only leaves 7 for the wood frame, clasps, and anything else needed to make your contraption. I assume the frame is square so it holds the net outstretched.
That assumption would be incorrect. There is no reason for the frame to be square. It can be shaped like an equidistant cross and be just as effective. Instead of 4 pieces of wood, you only need 2 pieces. The clasps are pieces of metal only large enough to clasp the fabric of the net.
A frame to hold a net large enough to capture a creature of the size class "large" (that's everything up to and potentially slightly beyond an owlbear) is going to be heavier than 10 pounds.
Another unfounded assumption. The OP merely asked if it was possible for one Mage Hand to deploy a net effectively. Nothing was mentioned about the size of the creature (or animated object) that it catches. The target creature could very likely be Medium, Small or Tiny (though a Tiny creature might need just slip away through the holes in some nets).
I'm building a rogue arcane trickster and I'm curious about if it is reasonable to use a mage hand (invisible just to confuse the enemy) to assist with using a net attack. My rationale is there is a world of difference between throwing a net to open, wrap around someone, then tangle effectively vs using 3 points to pull it over someone and down. Particularly since mage hand is a bonus action for a trickster: effectively combining action and bonus action to use a complex special attack based on the nature of a net and mage hand.
I may allow it as if the hand floated above the creature and drop the net on them to get entangled but I would not allow it as a thrown (Range attack) action since Mage Hand indicates that "The hand can't attack, activate magic items, or carry more than 10 pounds."
No. Just dropping the net would not include the motion necessary to cause the net to flair out in any useful manner. That’s what the Attack roll is for, and Mage Hand cannot Attack.
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I agree with no. Net requires an attack roll to get its effect, mage hand can't attack.
I would say that getting Unseen Servant to do this makes a lot more sense. That said, if you had two ATricksters in the party, i don't see how you could not combine your efforts to drop a spread out net on top of someone or some beast. However, at that point you would be using a bonus action from Rogue A and a readied action from Rogue B.
There are probably better ways to design a trap, such as by using an overhanging branch, a flimsy box filled with vials of alchemist fire, and a rope. Have the Mage Hand hold the rope to keep the box from falling. Bonus action to release the rope and thus the box on top of whomever walks under the box. ---> KABLAM!
It would take at least three Mage Hands to make it work without requiring an Attack Roll.
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How do you figure that exactly?
Also, you could probably do with only 1 Mage Hand, if you have enough prep time, now that I think about it some more. Make a frame out of some lightweight wood. Nail quick-release clasps to the frame. Attach net to the frame. Drop the frame on the target. The frame falling on the creature would probably mean a DEX save, not an attack roll. Impact of frame on creature causes net to detach.
I have thought about this several times, but both Mage Hand and Unseen Servants cannot attack.
Catapult, however, is totally feasible. It’s a recurrent strategy I’m employing with my Wizard. Really good damage and an annoying restraining for the target.
How would dropping on object count as an attack? There is no attack roll involved.
You're right. And the net will do some small amount of improvised bludgeoning damage and fall to the ground.
The issue is trying to get the net's effect which activates on an attack.
Yeah, i covered that in Post # 7. The trick is having the downtime and the skill proficiency to create the clasps. It should be achievable with Smith's Tools, esp. if the smith is a gnome or similarly small race.
Not really a smith, it sounds much more like building a trap to me - having a contraption trigger at the right time.
The smith is just to make the quick-release clasps.
Seems like a whole lot of trouble to try and get this to work. And the net itself weighs 3 pounds so that only leaves 7 for the wood frame, clasps, and anything else needed to make your contraption. I assume the frame is square so it holds the net outstretched. Even at 10 pounds try holding something like that horizontally with one hand. I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for the mage hand. Then since it is holding the frame, how does it release the net? It’s already occupied holding the frame?
If I was the DM that would be a no on this project
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net should be a twohanded attack anyway.
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A frame to hold a net large enough to capture a creature of the size class "large" (that's everything up to and potentially slightly beyond an owlbear) is going to be heavier than 10 pounds.
Anyway, for the OP, if you want to throw nets on people, just do it. You clearly don't mind missing out on your main action, but just because you spent a bonus action doing something doesn't mean that that bonus action has to be merited as useful.
I think they're going for something akin to the gladiator style of the Retiarius, in which case, the cast wouldn't be two-handed in all likelihoods, due to the difficulty of casting two handed and then using a trident.
huh, didn't know there was such a thing. thanks
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It's a neat bit of inspiration. Could be fun to roleplay a gladiator (alternative entertainer background) who has taken to adventuring, and keeps to his favorite fighting style even now that he has retired for the most part from doing that as his primary career, the style being whatever fantasy analog you have to the Roman Retiarius.
That assumption would be incorrect. There is no reason for the frame to be square. It can be shaped like an equidistant cross and be just as effective. Instead of 4 pieces of wood, you only need 2 pieces. The clasps are pieces of metal only large enough to clasp the fabric of the net.
Another unfounded assumption. The OP merely asked if it was possible for one Mage Hand to deploy a net effectively. Nothing was mentioned about the size of the creature (or animated object) that it catches. The target creature could very likely be Medium, Small or Tiny (though a Tiny creature might need just slip away through the holes in some nets).