I know that the quickened metamagic allows you to cast a spell with a cast time of one action as a bonus action, then cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action. Is it possible to do this the other way around? Like, can I quicken a cantrip, then cast a leveled spell?
For example, can I use a quickened lightning lure to pull an enemy closer, and then cast vampiric touch?
I know that the quickened metamagic allows you to cast a spell with a cast time of one action as a bonus action, then cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action. Is it possible to do this the other way around? Like, can I quicken a cantrip, then cast a leveled spell?
For example, can I use a quickened lightning lure to pull an enemy closer, and then cast vampiric touch?
You can't do the example. The rules for casting spells as a bonus action prevents leveled spells from being cast as an action, and it applies retroactively to the bonus action casting as well. Simply, you can't cast any spell as a bonus action on the same turn you cast a leveled spell as an action, regardless of order.
Got it, thank you both for the help. I was worried some of the combos I was planning wouldn't be possible. I'll be sure to quicken the right spell as to not look stupid at the table.
Bonus rule note: you can't cast reaction spells on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, but you can cast reaction spells in the same round.
This could be important if you are targeted by an opportunity attack on your turn and want to cast shield. You can't if you have or plan to quicken a spell that turn, but you can still cast shield on the enemy's turn if you're attacked. The bonus action casting limitations only apply for 1 turn, not the whole round.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
3) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
3) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
I hope this handy chart helps. It should account for all circumstances on your turn.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
4) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
1) This is Correct
2) This is Incorrect, the rule works in both directions. You cannot cast a leveled spell in the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, you are limited to only a cantrip with a casting time of one action. So if your first spell is a leveled action spell, you cannot cast a bonus action spell that turn
3) This is impossible. Reaction spells have a casting time of 1 reaction. You can't cast them as bonus action spells. You also can't cast a reaction spell if you have cast a bonus action spell that turn, because again it is not a cantrip with a casting time of one action. You can cast a reaction spell on any other turn that round though (and many DMs house-rule that you can do so on your turn as well, its just not RAW)
4) This is Correct, except on your turn (see #3)
The quickened spell allows you to cast a spell with a normal casting time of 1 action as a bonus action. So reactions, existing bonus action spells, and spells with longer casting times do not work with quickened spell. If you use quickened spell to cast a spell as a bonus action, the normal bonus action spell rules apply, so you would be limited to a cantrip for your action spell. Thats why its almost always better to quicken your leveled spell rather than a cantrip (unless your plan was to cast two cantrips).
I know that the quickened metamagic allows you to cast a spell with a cast time of one action as a bonus action, then cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action. Is it possible to do this the other way around? Like, can I quicken a cantrip, then cast a leveled spell?
For example, can I use a quickened lightning lure to pull an enemy closer, and then cast vampiric touch?
you can interchange the order of bonus action and action spells, but the rules apply both ways. Your best bet in your example would be to cast Lighting Lure as its normal action, then quicken vampiric touch. You could also quicken Vampiric Touch and then cast Lightning Lure. But you can't quicken Lightning Lure and cast Vampiric Touch normally (no matter which order you try).
Sometimes if a player at my table mixes it up and casts the leveled spell as an action and the quickened cantrip as a bonus action, I'll allow it because it all works out in the end. The issue is when someone tries to put a different metamagic on the leveled spell and then use quickened spell on the cantrip. Then I have to speak up.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".Th
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
3) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
The reaction stuff is not true. You can never cast a reaction spell as a bonus action. You can only cast them as a reaction to what the spell specifically declares.
If you cast a bonus action spell it has NO effect at all on reaction spells.
Any Wizard with the right spells can easily do the following:
On Init 20, as a Reaction to being attacked, cast Shield.
On their Init 15, cast Misty Step as a Bonus Action, then Shocking Grasp on a target.
On Init 10, when an enemy casts a spell on them, as a Reaction cast Counterspell to stop it.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
4) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
I'll try simplifying the rule at the end. First:
Yes.
No. You can only cast a cantrip as an action on the same turn as any bonus action spell.
There isn't a way to do this, but if there was, this would be sort of correct.
Not quite. You can't cast a reaction spell on the same turn as a bonus action spell, but after your turn ends, yes you can cast a reaction spell at any opportunity.
Ok. Lets try simplifying bonus action spell restrictions to 1 rule with 1 exception:
You can't cast a spell as a bonus action on the same turn you cast any other spell, nor can you cast any other spells on the same turn you used your bonus action to cast a spell.
The exception is: using your action to cast a cantrip does not count for this rule.
Bonus rule note: you can't cast reaction spells on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, but you can cast reaction spells in the same round.
This could be important if you are targeted by an opportunity attack on your turn and want to cast shield. You can't if you have or plan to quicken a spell that turn, but you can still cast shield on the enemy's turn if you're attacked. The bonus action casting limitations only apply for 1 turn, not the whole round.
This has come up in a discussion with some friends of mine, however there is still contention within the chat group as to how 'Reaction' spells such as 'Counterspell' and 'Shield' interact with this.
Do you happen to have the specific reference in rules, errata, or oracles from the Crawford that specifically call this out? I haven't seen anything solid enough that one or two of the opinionated people didn't disregard as not specifically referencing reactions, poorly worded, or vague. It would actually be a huge help in sorting out some rules lawyering in my friend's discord :D
No Sage Advice needed. It's right there in the spellcasting rules. The bonus spell casting rule applies to actions on your turn. So if you cast misty step as a bonus action and someone counterspells you, you cannot counterspell theircounterspell. But if someone casts a spell on their turn immediately after your turn, you're free to use your reaction for counterspell or whatnot.
It literally says in the spellcasting rule that if you cast a spell as a bonus action - you cannot cast any other spells that turn except for a cantrip that has a cast time of 1 action. Reaction spells are obviously not 1 action cast time therefore you cannot cast them on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell. It's that simple. And because it says "turn" and not "round" - the turn immediately following your own - you can cast reaction spells again.
Bonus rule note: you can't cast reaction spells on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, but you can cast reaction spells in the same round.
This could be important if you are targeted by an opportunity attack on your turn and want to cast shield. You can't if you have or plan to quicken a spell that turn, but you can still cast shield on the enemy's turn if you're attacked. The bonus action casting limitations only apply for 1 turn, not the whole round.
This has come up in a discussion with some friends of mine, however there is still contention within the chat group as to how 'Reaction' spells such as 'Counterspell' and 'Shield' interact with this.
Do you happen to have the specific reference in rules, errata, or oracles from the Crawford that specifically call this out? I haven't seen anything solid enough that one or two of the opinionated people didn't disregard as not specifically referencing reactions, poorly worded, or vague. It would actually be a huge help in sorting out some rules lawyering in my friend's discord :D
PHB, Chapter 9: Combat, The Order of Combat, Your Turn, Reactions:
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this chapter, is the most common type of reaction.
(Emphasis mine).
Reactions happn on your turn or on someone else's. They don't happen outside turns.
Yes, the example of Fireball, counterspell and then counterspelling the counterspell shows a reaction can happen on your turn irrespective of any other spells being cast.
From the sage advice compendium:
Can you cast a reaction spell on your turn? You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.
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I know that the quickened metamagic allows you to cast a spell with a cast time of one action as a bonus action, then cast a cantrip with a cast time of one action. Is it possible to do this the other way around? Like, can I quicken a cantrip, then cast a leveled spell?
For example, can I use a quickened lightning lure to pull an enemy closer, and then cast vampiric touch?
Yes. Nothing requiring you to do it in either order.
You can't do the example. The rules for casting spells as a bonus action prevents leveled spells from being cast as an action, and it applies retroactively to the bonus action casting as well. Simply, you can't cast any spell as a bonus action on the same turn you cast a leveled spell as an action, regardless of order.
What you can so is cast lightning lure as an action, then quicken vampiric touch as a bonus action.
Order doesn't matter, but which spell is cast as an action does.
The order was the important part he was asking about. The fact he quickened the wrong spell is a minor error that is irrelevant to the result.
Basically, don't quicken cantrips.
Yeah, I just want to be clear and not answer an illegal example with "yes."
Got it, thank you both for the help. I was worried some of the combos I was planning wouldn't be possible. I'll be sure to quicken the right spell as to not look stupid at the table.
Bonus rule note: you can't cast reaction spells on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, but you can cast reaction spells in the same round.
This could be important if you are targeted by an opportunity attack on your turn and want to cast shield. You can't if you have or plan to quicken a spell that turn, but you can still cast shield on the enemy's turn if you're attacked. The bonus action casting limitations only apply for 1 turn, not the whole round.
So what I'm reading and making sure I'm understanding
1) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell the only other spell I could cast as an Action would be another Cantrip
2) If the spell I'm casting as an Action is not a cantrip I can then cast a spell that is tagged as a "Bonus Action".
3) If I cast a Reaction spell as a "Bonus Action" I cannot cast another Reaction spell.
3) If the spell I'm casting is tagged as a "Bonus Action" Spell then I could cast a Reaction spell at any point if the opportunity occurs before my next turn.
I feel like I'm missing a few other examples but this is what I have for now.
I hope this handy chart helps. It should account for all circumstances on your turn.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Thank you! That is very helpful.
1) This is Correct
2) This is Incorrect, the rule works in both directions. You cannot cast a leveled spell in the same turn you cast a bonus action spell, you are limited to only a cantrip with a casting time of one action. So if your first spell is a leveled action spell, you cannot cast a bonus action spell that turn
3) This is impossible. Reaction spells have a casting time of 1 reaction. You can't cast them as bonus action spells. You also can't cast a reaction spell if you have cast a bonus action spell that turn, because again it is not a cantrip with a casting time of one action. You can cast a reaction spell on any other turn that round though (and many DMs house-rule that you can do so on your turn as well, its just not RAW)
4) This is Correct, except on your turn (see #3)
The quickened spell allows you to cast a spell with a normal casting time of 1 action as a bonus action. So reactions, existing bonus action spells, and spells with longer casting times do not work with quickened spell. If you use quickened spell to cast a spell as a bonus action, the normal bonus action spell rules apply, so you would be limited to a cantrip for your action spell. Thats why its almost always better to quicken your leveled spell rather than a cantrip (unless your plan was to cast two cantrips).
you can interchange the order of bonus action and action spells, but the rules apply both ways. Your best bet in your example would be to cast Lighting Lure as its normal action, then quicken vampiric touch. You could also quicken Vampiric Touch and then cast Lightning Lure. But you can't quicken Lightning Lure and cast Vampiric Touch normally (no matter which order you try).
Sometimes if a player at my table mixes it up and casts the leveled spell as an action and the quickened cantrip as a bonus action, I'll allow it because it all works out in the end. The issue is when someone tries to put a different metamagic on the leveled spell and then use quickened spell on the cantrip. Then I have to speak up.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The reaction stuff is not true. You can never cast a reaction spell as a bonus action. You can only cast them as a reaction to what the spell specifically declares.
If you cast a bonus action spell it has NO effect at all on reaction spells.
Any Wizard with the right spells can easily do the following:
On Init 20, as a Reaction to being attacked, cast Shield.
On their Init 15, cast Misty Step as a Bonus Action, then Shocking Grasp on a target.
On Init 10, when an enemy casts a spell on them, as a Reaction cast Counterspell to stop it.
I'll try simplifying the rule at the end. First:
Ok. Lets try simplifying bonus action spell restrictions to 1 rule with 1 exception:
This has come up in a discussion with some friends of mine, however there is still contention within the chat group as to how 'Reaction' spells such as 'Counterspell' and 'Shield' interact with this.
Do you happen to have the specific reference in rules, errata, or oracles from the Crawford that specifically call this out? I haven't seen anything solid enough that one or two of the opinionated people didn't disregard as not specifically referencing reactions, poorly worded, or vague. It would actually be a huge help in sorting out some rules lawyering in my friend's discord :D
No Sage Advice needed. It's right there in the spellcasting rules. The bonus spell casting rule applies to actions on your turn. So if you cast misty step as a bonus action and someone counterspells you, you cannot counterspell theircounterspell. But if someone casts a spell on their turn immediately after your turn, you're free to use your reaction for counterspell or whatnot.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It literally says in the spellcasting rule that if you cast a spell as a bonus action - you cannot cast any other spells that turn except for a cantrip that has a cast time of 1 action. Reaction spells are obviously not 1 action cast time therefore you cannot cast them on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell. It's that simple.
And because it says "turn" and not "round" - the turn immediately following your own - you can cast reaction spells again.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
PHB, Chapter 9: Combat, The Order of Combat, Your Turn, Reactions:
(Emphasis mine).
Reactions happn on your turn or on someone else's. They don't happen outside turns.
Yes, the example of Fireball, counterspell and then counterspelling the counterspell shows a reaction can happen on your turn irrespective of any other spells being cast.
From the sage advice compendium:
Can you cast a reaction spell on your turn? You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius also has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.