The rule for reaction spells provide for WHEN they can be cast, not WHETHER they can be cast. Again, feel free to scroll up to the very simple chart to determine what spells can be cast on your turn.
Sorry, you are right. I hadn't taken into account that the bonus action is what restricts the spells, I was only thinking about leveled spells.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but it seems to be clear and backed up by rules and sage advice.
I'm sure it has to do with bonus action spells being easier to cast than reaction spells and boosting your action economy, so they were restricted in order to balance them.
ok very late to this but why must the cantrip be the action and not the bonus action quicken spell? A cantrip has officially been called a spell. quicken spell only requires the spell to be a casting time of 1 action. You can't cast 2 LEVELED spells in one turn. What am i missing?
I think you might be missing a few of the details of the bonus action casting rule. I don't say this to be snarky. I see a few statements that look a little off to me. You are correct that the order of casting does not matter. You can cast a cantrip with a casting time of an action and THEN a bonus action spell, or you can do it the other way around. Casting two leveled spells on your turn is fine, as long as neither of them use your bonus action to cast.
Janky. Google how many times can i use my reaction per round. The answer is you can use it once, just once. So you can't shield and counterspell in the same round. This is exactly WHY characters with more hit points run from a dangerous foe first, so they draw the opportunity attack which is ONE attack per round, so that other characters next to the creature cannot be attacked. Once the creature makes one opp attack barring any additional special rule for the creature or feat, the other characters are free to run without suffering and attack. It's also why you can't blow a shield and counterspell in the same round. So everything you think about reaction isn't true, eh?
So much emphasis on turns rather than rounds, but in reality the rules clearly state one reaction per round. the turn they are talking about is YOUR turn, not the other guys turn, the turn that you take is when your reaction becomes usable again.
From the rules quote
Reactions
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this section, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of YOUR next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
So that's that sorted out. No more counterspelling 3 times a round or firing up a shield and a counterspell or a counter counter spell from one character.
And no more multiple opportunity attacks unless you got special skills like a cavalier or sentinel or whatever they are.
HAHA, 1 caveat. You can actually do 2 reactions per round, but by doing so you can't have used one from the round before and you can't use one until your initiative on the round after. So an example above says at init 20 then at init 10 when their init is 15. True, but only if they hadn't used a reaction after init 15 the round before and they can't use one until init 15 the round after. Hell that's a mouthful.
You can take more than one reaction per round, once before your turn comes up and one after it on your turn or any other creature's turn in the round.
A round is exactly that, "round", it can start at any point and ends when to return to the same point, it does not have to start at the top of the initiative order. You can use your reaction once between the start of your turn and the start of your next turn so it is easiest to think of a "round" as starting at the start of your turn, at least for uses of your reaction.
If you start the round at the top of the initiave order you can only use your reaction before your turn comes up if you did not use it in the previous round after the start of your turn and using it on your turn or on the turn of any creature after you in the initiative order prevents you using it in the next round until the start of your turn. It all gets very complicated.
A round is exactly that, "round", it can start at any point and ends when to return to the same point, it does not have to start at the top of the initiative order.
A round doesn't start at any point and ends when you return to the same point, it start at the top of the initiative order and ends when everyone had a turn in it.
COMBAT STEP-BY-STEP
1. Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised. 2. Establish positions. The DM decides where all the characters and monsters are located. Given the adventurers' marching order or their stated positions in the room or other location, the DM figures out where the adversaries are--how far away and in what direction. 3. Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants' turns. 4. Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in initiative order. 5. Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops.
If you start the round at the top of the initiave order you can only use your reaction before your turn comes up if you did not use it in the previous round after the start of your turn and using it on your turn or on the turn of any creature after you in the initiative order prevents you using it in the next round until the start of your turn. It all gets very complicated.
It's not very complicated, whenever you want to take a reaction all you have to do is ask yourself if you took one since the start of your last turn?
A round is exactly that, "round", it can start at any point and ends when to return to the same point, it does not have to start at the top of the initiative order.
A round doesn't start at any point and ends when you return to the same point, it start at the top of the initiative order and ends when everyone had a turn in it.
COMBAT STEP-BY-STEP
1. Determine surprise. The DM determines whether anyone involved in the combat encounter is surprised. 2. Establish positions. The DM decides where all the characters and monsters are located. Given the adventurers' marching order or their stated positions in the room or other location, the DM figures out where the adversaries are--how far away and in what direction. 3. Roll initiative. Everyone involved in the combat encounter rolls initiative, determining the order of combatants' turns. 4. Take turns. Each participant in the battle takes a turn in initiative order. 5. Begin the next round. When everyone involved in the combat has had a turn, the round ends. Repeat step 4 until the fighting stops.
Whenever I am uncertain about something, I answer it anyway because I know even if it is wrong, you will provide 100% correct information in a matter of minutes. Your work is deeply valued, thank you. You make me a better DM.
If you start the round at the top of the initiave order you can only use your reaction before your turn comes up if you did not use it in the previous round after the start of your turn and using it on your turn or on the turn of any creature after you in the initiative order prevents you using it in the next round until the start of your turn. It all gets very complicated.
It's not very complicated, whenever you want to take a reaction all you have to do is ask yourself if you took one since the start of your last turn?
1. Yes, so reaction is impossible.
2. No, so reaction is possible.
But the question wasn't can I take a reacion it was how many times per round can you use a reaction and if a round has to start at the top of the initiative order. the answer is complicated
If you start the round at the top of the initiave order you can only use your reaction before your turn comes up if you did not use it in the previous round after the start of your turn and using it on your turn or on the turn of any creature after you in the initiative order prevents you using it in the next round until the start of your turn. It all gets very complicated.
It's not very complicated, whenever you want to take a reaction all you have to do is ask yourself if you took one since the start of your last turn?
1. Yes, so reaction is impossible.
2. No, so reaction is possible.
But the question wasn't can I take a reacion it was how many times per round can you use a reaction and if a round has to start at the top of the initiative order. the answer is complicated
I answered it in post #27 the part you're quoting now is my reply to it not being very complicated.
Whenever I am uncertain about something, I answer it anyway because I know even if it is wrong, you will provide 100% correct information in a matter of minutes. Your work is deeply valued, thank you. You make me a better DM.
Not always but thanks you're welcomes we're many here actively participating which makes this Rules Q&A community very helpful and to be honest with you it often help my own games too ;)
But the question wasn't can I take a reacion it was how many times per round can you use a reaction and if a round has to start at the top of the initiative order. the answer is complicated
Well a round does start at the top of the initiative order, if that makes it complicated then so be it. And asking "how many times per round" is a poor way to phrase the question, "round" isn't a part of the determination of if you can do a reaction or not.
What I’m seeing a lot of is people are going off topic. The question was can I quicken a level spell and cast a cantrip. Any spell that is quickened is now cast as a bonus action, so if he cast a cantrip as an action, he can cast the leveled spell as the Bonus action because he met the criteria of one Leveled spell as a Bonus and then a cantrip. Some of y’all are literally arguing that he can’t do what he’s asking, while basically showing that he CAN cast the two.
Why can’t he quicken Lightning Lure (a cantrip), then cast Vampiric Touch?
Because Vampiric Touch is not a cantrip. The moment you cast a any spell as a bonus action, you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Bonus Action Spell: If you want to cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 bonus action, remember that you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Why can’t he quicken Lightning Lure (a cantrip), then cast Vampiric Touch?
In practical terms, most of the time it makes no functional difference whether you quicken the cantrip or whether you quicken the leveled spell because either way you are casting an action spell and a bonus action spell and one of them is a cantrip (I had a player who would mix this up on occasion and I would just let him do it rather than correct him every time). One possible situation that can complicate this is when you allow someone to quicken lightning lure and then apply a different metamagic to vampiric touch. Now you are entering into a situation where in order to square the quickened spell rule with RAW, you end up breaking the general rule that says only one metamagic can be applied to a single casting.
In short, it probably won't matter at the table, but the rule does specify and there's a reason for it.
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The rule for reaction spells provide for WHEN they can be cast, not WHETHER they can be cast. Again, feel free to scroll up to the very simple chart to determine what spells can be cast on your turn.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Sorry, you are right. I hadn't taken into account that the bonus action is what restricts the spells, I was only thinking about leveled spells.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but it seems to be clear and backed up by rules and sage advice.
I'm sure it has to do with bonus action spells being easier to cast than reaction spells and boosting your action economy, so they were restricted in order to balance them.
ok very late to this but why must the cantrip be the action and not the bonus action quicken spell? A cantrip has officially been called a spell. quicken spell only requires the spell to be a casting time of 1 action. You can't cast 2 LEVELED spells in one turn. What am i missing?
I think you might be missing a few of the details of the bonus action casting rule. I don't say this to be snarky. I see a few statements that look a little off to me. You are correct that the order of casting does not matter. You can cast a cantrip with a casting time of an action and THEN a bonus action spell, or you can do it the other way around. Casting two leveled spells on your turn is fine, as long as neither of them use your bonus action to cast.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Janky. Google how many times can i use my reaction per round. The answer is you can use it once, just once. So you can't shield and counterspell in the same round. This is exactly WHY characters with more hit points run from a dangerous foe first, so they draw the opportunity attack which is ONE attack per round, so that other characters next to the creature cannot be attacked. Once the creature makes one opp attack barring any additional special rule for the creature or feat, the other characters are free to run without suffering and attack. It's also why you can't blow a shield and counterspell in the same round. So everything you think about reaction isn't true, eh?
So much emphasis on turns rather than rounds, but in reality the rules clearly state one reaction per round. the turn they are talking about is YOUR turn, not the other guys turn, the turn that you take is when your reaction becomes usable again.
From the rules quote
Reactions
Certain special abilities, spells, and situations allow you to take a special action called a reaction. A reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or on someone else's. The opportunity attack, described later in this section, is the most common type of reaction.
When you take a reaction, you can't take another one until the start of YOUR next turn. If the reaction interrupts another creature's turn, that creature can continue its turn right after the reaction.
So that's that sorted out. No more counterspelling 3 times a round or firing up a shield and a counterspell or a counter counter spell from one character.
And no more multiple opportunity attacks unless you got special skills like a cavalier or sentinel or whatever they are.
HAHA, 1 caveat. You can actually do 2 reactions per round, but by doing so you can't have used one from the round before and you can't use one until your initiative on the round after. So an example above says at init 20 then at init 10 when their init is 15. True, but only if they hadn't used a reaction after init 15 the round before and they can't use one until init 15 the round after. Hell that's a mouthful.
You can take more than one reaction per round, once before your turn comes up and one after it on your turn or any other creature's turn in the round.
A round is exactly that, "round", it can start at any point and ends when to return to the same point, it does not have to start at the top of the initiative order. You can use your reaction once between the start of your turn and the start of your next turn so it is easiest to think of a "round" as starting at the start of your turn, at least for uses of your reaction.
If you start the round at the top of the initiave order you can only use your reaction before your turn comes up if you did not use it in the previous round after the start of your turn and using it on your turn or on the turn of any creature after you in the initiative order prevents you using it in the next round until the start of your turn. It all gets very complicated.
A round doesn't start at any point and ends when you return to the same point, it start at the top of the initiative order and ends when everyone had a turn in it.
It's not very complicated, whenever you want to take a reaction all you have to do is ask yourself if you took one since the start of your last turn?
1. Yes, so reaction is impossible.
2. No, so reaction is possible.
Whenever I am uncertain about something, I answer it anyway because I know even if it is wrong, you will provide 100% correct information in a matter of minutes. Your work is deeply valued, thank you. You make me a better DM.
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But the question wasn't can I take a reacion it was how many times per round can you use a reaction and if a round has to start at the top of the initiative order. the answer is complicated
I answered it in post #27 the part you're quoting now is my reply to it not being very complicated.
Not always but thanks you're welcomes we're many here actively participating which makes this Rules Q&A community very helpful and to be honest with you it often help my own games too ;)
Well a round does start at the top of the initiative order, if that makes it complicated then so be it. And asking "how many times per round" is a poor way to phrase the question, "round" isn't a part of the determination of if you can do a reaction or not.
What I’m seeing a lot of is people are going off topic. The question was can I quicken a level spell and cast a cantrip. Any spell that is quickened is now cast as a bonus action, so if he cast a cantrip as an action, he can cast the leveled spell as the Bonus action because he met the criteria of one Leveled spell as a Bonus and then a cantrip. Some of y’all are literally arguing that he can’t do what he’s asking, while basically showing that he CAN cast the two.
Why can’t he quicken Lightning Lure (a cantrip), then cast Vampiric Touch?
Because Vampiric Touch is not a cantrip. The moment you cast a any spell as a bonus action, you can’t cast any other spells before or after it on the same turn, except for cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
The same caster can quicken Vampiric Touch and cast Lightning Lure before or after it though.
In practical terms, most of the time it makes no functional difference whether you quicken the cantrip or whether you quicken the leveled spell because either way you are casting an action spell and a bonus action spell and one of them is a cantrip (I had a player who would mix this up on occasion and I would just let him do it rather than correct him every time). One possible situation that can complicate this is when you allow someone to quicken lightning lure and then apply a different metamagic to vampiric touch. Now you are entering into a situation where in order to square the quickened spell rule with RAW, you end up breaking the general rule that says only one metamagic can be applied to a single casting.
In short, it probably won't matter at the table, but the rule does specify and there's a reason for it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"