I'm very certain this has been answered before, but if I can attack twice when I take the attack action, would I be able to use 2 cantrips with the same casting time on the same turn? Thinking about the wording I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be, but is some sort of Loop Hole I could use?
No. You can't cast spells as part of the Attack action, you use the Cast A Spell action for that. Part of casting that spell may involve making a spell attack of some kind, but the Attack action is just for making weapon attacks(including unarmed strikes). There are only two exceptions that I know of. One is the Way Of The Sun Soul Monk, their Radiant Sun Bolt is an extra type of attack they can make during the Attack action. The other is the Bladesinger, when they get the Extra Attack feature at Level 6, they can cast a cantrip in place of one attack during the Attack action.
I'm very certain this has been answered before, but if I can attack twice when I take the attack action, would I be able to use 2 cantrips with the same casting time on the same turn? Thinking about the wording I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be, but is some sort of Loop Hole I could use?
Why would you want a "loop hole you could use?"
Why would you be trying to find loop-holes in the wording of the rules to deliberately violate the very clear and obvious intention of the rules?
D&D is not a contest or competition. You don't "win" anything by fooling the other players at the table (or the DM) into allowing your character to do something the rules clearly do not intend your character to do. It's poor sportsmanship to purposely go around looking for rule loopholes to exploit.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
The "Attack" actions and "Cast a spell" actions are separate and distinct, so there is no way to cast two spells (cantrip or otherwise) using one action without some special feature or class ability that would allow that explicitly. Some examples (and one "kind of" spell) are below:
eldritch blast allows for multiple attack rolls as part of a single casting at higher caster levels (level 5 and up), but it is still technically one spell and one casting
Sorcerer's "Twinned Spell" metamagic allows you to add one additional target to a single target spell, so it is functionally like casting the spell twice (although you are still only casting it once)
Sorcerer's "Quickened Spell" allows an action spell to be cast as a bonus action, and you could use it to cast two cantrips in one turn (although it uses your bonus action and your action to do so)
Fighter's "Action Surge" allows you to gain a second action, which you could use to cast a cantrip/leveled spell (but that is two actions and two castings)
The New Bladesinger Classes extra attack feature allows you to cast a cantrip as one of your extra attacks, but you can't use that to cast two cantrips
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the [Tooltip Not Found] action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the cast a spell action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
Life is wild sometimes.
Yes, Bladesingers are the sole exception to this rule. They can cast a cantrip in replacement of an attack that they take during the Attack action, but only one. They can't do two cantrips in the same action, they can do one cantrip and one attack. If you want to cast another cantrip, you need to have haste cast on you.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
As players level up either their weapon attacks do more damage (e.g. rogue) or they get more attacks (e.g. fighter)
Damage dealing Cantrips are the spellcasters equivalent of weapon attacks as they don't use resources and they too become more powerful asyou increase in class.
Most martial classes get a second attack at level 5, cantrips double in damage at this time (or in the case of eldrtich blast you get to fiire 2)
Interesting point is cantrip damage is based on character level but second attack is based on class level. A paladin with a one level dip in warlock will probably find while at every other level they are better off using weapon attacks if they can get within range at level 5 they do more damage with eldritch blast.
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the cast a spell action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
Life is wild sometimes.
Yes, Bladesingers are the sole exception to this rule. They can cast a cantrip in replacement of an attack that they take during the Attack action, but only one. They can't do two cantrips in the same action, they can do one cantrip and one attack. If you want to cast another cantrip, you need to have haste cast on you.
How would haste help? The action it grants can't cast spells.
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the cast a spell action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
Life is wild sometimes.
Yes, Bladesingers are the sole exception to this rule. They can cast a cantrip in replacement of an attack that they take during the Attack action, but only one. They can't do two cantrips in the same action, they can do one cantrip and one attack. If you want to cast another cantrip, you need to have haste cast on you.
How would haste help? The action it grants can't cast spells.
But it can grant an Attack action, and the Bladesinger's Extra Attack lets the bladesinger replace an attack with a cantrip. The Hasted Attack action is limited to "one weapon attack only", so the cantrip will be limited to Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the cast a spell action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
Life is wild sometimes.
Yes, Bladesingers are the sole exception to this rule. They can cast a cantrip in replacement of an attack that they take during the Attack action, but only one. They can't do two cantrips in the same action, they can do one cantrip and one attack. If you want to cast another cantrip, you need to have haste cast on you.
How would haste help? The action it grants can't cast spells.
But it can grant an Attack action, and the Bladesinger's Extra Attack lets the bladesinger replace an attack with a cantrip. The Hasted Attack action is limited to "one weapon attack only", so the cantrip will be limited to Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade.
Sounds like a stretch. I wouldn't allow it, but other DMs might.
The wording of haste does not seem to be compatible with a bladesinger casting a spell with their hasted attack action.
I definitely agree! The bladesinger only gets to replace one of the two attacks of the Attack action where he is applying the Extra Attack feature.
"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
I guess you could "weaponize" your bonus action as a sorlock or a sorcerer, to get two cantrips off per turn but it will still take both action and bonus action to do it. Or get a spell like spiritual weapon that can attack on your bonus action. But two cantrips from your action only will not work.
Alright so I had this thought and it sounds really broken but I feel like I’ve gotten something wrong. With Tasha’s ruling on extra attacks you can cast a cantrip in place of an attack. Eldritch Blast has multiple attacks but is technically still one cantrip. So say you had a high level fighter who took the magic initiate feat and had eldritch blast, couldn’t he cast eldritch blast with each attack? And each time he gets an extra attack and eldritch blast gets an extra shot he could attack even more. By 20th level he’d be able to make 16 attacks (4 attack times 4 eldritch blasts) without even considering action surge or things like haste. At that point he’s basically a walking minigun. Please tell me I messed something up in my reading of the rule
I'm very certain this has been answered before, but if I can attack twice when I take the attack action, would I be able to use 2 cantrips with the same casting time on the same turn? Thinking about the wording I'm pretty sure I know what the answer will be, but is some sort of Loop Hole I could use?
No. You can't cast spells as part of the Attack action, you use the Cast A Spell action for that. Part of casting that spell may involve making a spell attack of some kind, but the Attack action is just for making weapon attacks(including unarmed strikes). There are only two exceptions that I know of. One is the Way Of The Sun Soul Monk, their Radiant Sun Bolt is an extra type of attack they can make during the Attack action. The other is the Bladesinger, when they get the Extra Attack feature at Level 6, they can cast a cantrip in place of one attack during the Attack action.
No.
The only way to cast two cantrips on a turn is if one of them is a bonus action (such as through Quicken metamagic, or if you use an action surge.)
The "Attack" action and the "Cast a Spell" action are mutually exclusive.
One other way to get two cantrips off. This is a magic item called the Illusionist's Bracers that lets you do that as a Bonus Action.
Sorcerer using a Quickened Cantrip and then a one Action cantrip
Why would you want a "loop hole you could use?"
Why would you be trying to find loop-holes in the wording of the rules to deliberately violate the very clear and obvious intention of the rules?
D&D is not a contest or competition. You don't "win" anything by fooling the other players at the table (or the DM) into allowing your character to do something the rules clearly do not intend your character to do. It's poor sportsmanship to purposely go around looking for rule loopholes to exploit.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
You could take a fighter dip for action surge. That lets you cast two in a round, though not two in an action.
There is also a magic item that allows two cantrip to be cast.
But under normal circumstances, you can't.
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The "Attack" actions and "Cast a spell" actions are separate and distinct, so there is no way to cast two spells (cantrip or otherwise) using one action without some special feature or class ability that would allow that explicitly. Some examples (and one "kind of" spell) are below:
Imagine if you could cast a spell as part of the attack action. Now imagine if you could use the [Tooltip Not Found] action and make an attack as part of it. Now imagine being a bladesinger and taking the attack action, then casting booming blade as one of the attacks, which would then let you make an attack as part of casting the spell, which you did as part of your attack action.
Life is wild sometimes.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yes, Bladesingers are the sole exception to this rule. They can cast a cantrip in replacement of an attack that they take during the Attack action, but only one. They can't do two cantrips in the same action, they can do one cantrip and one attack. If you want to cast another cantrip, you need to have haste cast on you.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
As players level up either their weapon attacks do more damage (e.g. rogue) or they get more attacks (e.g. fighter)
Damage dealing Cantrips are the spellcasters equivalent of weapon attacks as they don't use resources and they too become more powerful asyou increase in class.
Most martial classes get a second attack at level 5, cantrips double in damage at this time (or in the case of eldrtich blast you get to fiire 2)
Interesting point is cantrip damage is based on character level but second attack is based on class level. A paladin with a one level dip in warlock will probably find while at every other level they are better off using weapon attacks if they can get within range at level 5 they do more damage with eldritch blast.
How would haste help? The action it grants can't cast spells.
But it can grant an Attack action, and the Bladesinger's Extra Attack lets the bladesinger replace an attack with a cantrip. The Hasted Attack action is limited to "one weapon attack only", so the cantrip will be limited to Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sounds like a stretch. I wouldn't allow it, but other DMs might.
The wording of haste does not seem to be compatible with a bladesinger casting a spell with their hasted attack action.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I definitely agree! The bladesinger only gets to replace one of the two attacks of the Attack action where he is applying the Extra Attack feature.
"You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."
I guess you could "weaponize" your bonus action as a sorlock or a sorcerer, to get two cantrips off per turn but it will still take both action and bonus action to do it. Or get a spell like spiritual weapon that can attack on your bonus action. But two cantrips from your action only will not work.
Alright so I had this thought and it sounds really broken but I feel like I’ve gotten something wrong. With Tasha’s ruling on extra attacks you can cast a cantrip in place of an attack. Eldritch Blast has multiple attacks but is technically still one cantrip. So say you had a high level fighter who took the magic initiate feat and had eldritch blast, couldn’t he cast eldritch blast with each attack? And each time he gets an extra attack and eldritch blast gets an extra shot he could attack even more. By 20th level he’d be able to make 16 attacks (4 attack times 4 eldritch blasts) without even considering action surge or things like haste. At that point he’s basically a walking minigun. Please tell me I messed something up in my reading of the rule
There is no such ruling, that’s where you messed up.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.